Josie

I see nothing wrong with the death penalty and believe that if an individual deliberately takes another life, then he should pay with his own life. I do believe it would stop much of the murders taking place today. I would like to see our court systems cleaned up and stream lined to get people through the system much faster, no longer sitting on death row for even 5 or 10 years, much less 20 or more. Once a person is sentenced, a way needs to be developed to put them through their appeals and get it done in no more than 2 years at the most. I believe that needs to be done with the whole judicial system, this thing of taking years and years to get through all of the appeals is rediculous. Any crime hurting another individual is automatic prison time, regardless. We need to be tougher on the criminal and alot of it would stop.

Saw this on news tonight Ben. Very sad. I hope that people realize just how dangerous it is to give their information out or meet people from online. So many stories out there and so many dangerous people just lurking for someone that will believe them and take a chance... It is not worth it.

That is my feelings also, Ben. Without the resurrection, what would have been the point of anything else?

You mentioned scrutiny and gave examples of mobs and murders, etc. That is physical scrutiny, but I was talking about academic scrutiny. Considering they are using the Book of Mormon to locate ancient civilizations in Central and South America, I think that is pretty good academic scrutiny. Information in Book of Mormon is being proved by ancient records found in the old world everyday, from the names used and the periods that they should have been used, to places that the people of the Book of Mormon came from. Many have tried, but no one has academically proved the Book of Mormon wrong yet. For example: The Book of Mormon was translated by Joseph Smith from metal tablets (Gold and/or Copper). Where are these tablets and has Joseph Smith’s translations been verified? This would require a copy of or the original tablets. if you know anything about Joseph Smith and his translation of the Book of Mormon, you know that he gave the records back to the angel Moroni, when he had completed the unsealed portion. He was not permitted to translate the rest of the record at that time. The Bible was originally written primarily in Hebrew and Greek. We have copies of the Hebrew Bible that are dated before 100 AD. The have copies of the Greek New Testament from the 11th Century. You stated that the LDS accepts the KJV version of the Bible. Do you accept the Hebrew and Greek version that pre-date the KJV by at least 500 years? We only accept the kjv of the Bible as cannonized scripture. To help you understand: I answered your questions. I have my own spiritual confirmation of my faith, Joseph Smith, The Bible, the Book of Mormon, God, and Jesus Christ. If I am wrong, I have lived a good life, and am not ashamed. If I am right, then I have lived up to my convictions. I don't need to prove what I have already received a spritual confirmation of from the Holy Ghost. My religion is my life and governs everything I do, think, say, hope for, or dream about. It is mine, and I am happy with it.

I did not say this was an lds teaching. My parents were not lds when I was young. Most wards I have been in have Santa Claus at the Christmas parties. My mother taught this as we grew old enough to understand, and started to realize that there really was not a santa claus in the red suit. She wanted us to realize that although the man was not real, the happiness of giving and loving one another and finding joy in giving was real and very much needed in our lives and this world.

Well said. People do not seem to understand that God and his son Jesus Christ are the cornerstone to our religion and when it comes down to it, everything we have is from them and of them and we owe everything we accomplish, do, or become that is in anyway good to them. So, they are what matters to us more than anything. If a person serves a good life to a mistaken idea of who or what god is, what matters is that they served a good life.

What if we did not come onto an lds site trying to tear down their church and beliefs? What if we could express our opinion without tearing someone else's down? What if we could treat one another like we would like to be treated? What if we actually treated one another with dignity and respect? For the general information of this forum: The LDS church does accept the King James version of the Bible as scripture and that includes the Book of Genesis. As far as the church standing up under scrutiny? Well, it has stood under mobs, murder, threatenings, fire, and much much more. The Book of Mormon is being used to find ruins of cities in central and south America. The LDS Church is one of the fastest growing churches in the World. And yes, We believe in God, the Father, and his son, Jesus Christ.

The woman was claiming to be a gggggranddaughter of Joseph Smith and she supposedly had a translation of lost pages to BOM. She is suppose to have a website that also contains that translation. She meant him no harm, misdemeaner charges were filed against her for trespassing and interrupting a church service, after she was taken into custody by police and she is suppose to be returning to TX today. President Hinckley never missed a beat. He was opening the devotional and just kept talking like nothing was going on and by listening to him, you would have not even known this woman was racing toward him. The news said army national guard escorted her out of the mtg, turned her over to church security and they turned her over to the police.

LisaJo, I know what you are saying. I really understand that. Kids are not like they were when we were kids, they expect too much[most kids atleast - not putting all of them in this category] and have forgot what it is really suppose to be about. So many kids out there today don't seem to respect themselves, their parents, their God, their elders [like alot of them even know what that word means] and live in a "give me, give me" world. I at was recently at a friends visiting for the evening and his granddaughter really astonished me. She was a living doll at 2 1/2 and probably the most mannerly young lady I have met at that age in a long long time. She knew how to talk to older people and listened to her grandparents and mother and aunt and was respectful of them. Even when she was not crazy about what she was asked to do, she did not whine pitch a fit to get her way. She was very polite to me, considering it was the first time she had ever met me and did not complain about the food her mother gave her to eat. Infact she ate well and was so pleasant to be around. So few kids are taught those manners today. I know, back to the subject!!! LisaJo, get your family together, make some hot chocolate, put out some cookies, put on the Christmas music, and put up your tree as a family. [i will tell you alittle secret, for along time, those lights on the tree have gave me hope and brightened my spirit. Why? Because to me they represent the light of Christ and the blessings he has given me. I use them to remind me of the times he reminded me that I am his, that he loves me, that he loves my children and watches over them because I cannot, and my parents, my job, and on and on. The lights are all that Christ has given me, including his life and atonement.] I love Christmas trees and all the symbols of Christmas that are hung on them. To me Christmas is Christ, it is about giving, sharing, being with family and remembering our Savior. You have known me long enough to know that holidays are hard for me, being alone and away from family, but LisaJo, they are hard because I am away from family. Not because there is not a present or I have no one to be with, but because I am not with my family. Christmas is a time to bring family and friends together and share in the joy of christ's birth and renew our love and feelings for one another. LisaJo, you are a great person, remember, Christ wants you to be happy.

LisaJo, I read a statement by President HInckley this week where he said something to the effect that we needed to take time in this Christmas season to remember our Savior and his atoning sacrafice for us. He said that in this time of celebration of his birth, basically we had to remember how important his birth and life were, so that he might do what he did for us through his atonement. It is what makes eternal life possible for all of us. I love to read the Christmas story in the scriptures. And I have already started watching the Christmas programs on the tv. Christmas is not the same for me now, with all of my family elsewhere and me alone. But it is still a wonderful time of year and a time to celebrate our Savior in joy. You know, we are told not to teach our kids that Santa Claus is real. My mom had a unique way of handling Santa Claus with her kids. She taught us that Santa Claus represented all the joy and happiness in the world. He represented the joy of giving and doing for one another. I have always remembered that. In her eyes Santa Claus is or atleast represents the spirit of Christmas and she believes that to this day. Take your family and drive around and look at the lights together, find a family that maybe needs some extra help this christmas and make that family a project for your family[without the other family knowing it]. Do it completely in secret....

Have heard of something similar to this, and I understand where your husband is coming from. I am sure anything feels like it is worth a try at this point to him. I wish you the best of luck, both of you and hope it is a success.

Seth, I don't know what happened, but I think it would make many people very sad to loose you in the chat. You add spice to life and have showed a good time to alot of people and it would be a shame to loose the opportunity to chat with you.

For third grade, that is pretty darn good, Snow.

LOL@Seth See what happens, you come back to the states and the girls go nuts over ya. They can't stand it guy, they just can't stand it...

Paul, There is truth in much of what you have said. You seem very knowledgable on what you are discussing and I have respect for your opinion. Our beliefs differ on some areas, and it is a welcome opportunity for all of us to share our beliefs and take on things of such great importance. I appreciate being able to discuss our beliefs in a positive atmosphere.

I believe Heavenly Father is a perfect man with flesh and bone. I believe that we, meaning all mankind, were created in his image. I believe that Heavenly Father created Christ's spirit from intellegence that already existed and that he is one of the first, if not the first, of his spiritual creations from already existing intellegent matter. I believe there was no beginning and there will be no end to God and his creations, nor to those of Christ. The scriptures tell us over and over that there was no beginning and there is no end... It is like this PrisonChaplain: You draw a line and somewhere along that line you place a dot and then continue your line._________________.______________________________________ The line really has no beginning and no end, it is continuous. That dot is our earthly life. It is the short time in eternity that we exist on this earth. We came without beginning and we leave without end. Yes. I do believe that there are errors in the KJV of the Bible. It is cannonized in our church and we do accept it as scripture as far as it is translated correctly. It is the best authority we have on the teachings of Christ to the ancient world, even with its imperfections. I do believe they are the most perfect scripture we have upon the face of the earth today.

LOL LOL LOL

Hmmmmm, seems to be some difference of opinion on this subject: http://users.rcn.com/tlclcms/chrtree.htm http://www.hollywoodjesus.com/tree.htm http://www.christmascarnivals.com/aboutchristmas/ http://www.holidays.net/christmas/tree.htm Just to list a few other websites, if you are really interested. I enjoyed reading about the meaning of the tree itself and things put upon it. This is a time to think what Christmas really means in our life and why we celebrate it and what it means to each of us. It has many symbols and many meaning attached to those symbols to remind us of this wonderful holiday that we should all be thankful to celebrate and grateful for the reminders of its meaning.

1. Belief in a God who evolves (with a changing nature--sometimes called "eternal progression") D&C 20: 17 17 By these things we know that there is a God in heaven, who is infinite and eternal, from everlasting to everlasting the same unchangeable God, the framer of heaven and earth, and all things which are in them; 2 Ne. 27: 23 23 For behold, I am God; and I am a God of miracles; and I will show unto the world that I am the same yesterday, today, and forever; and I work not among the children of men save it be according to their faith. 2. Belief in a Jesus who is not "co-eternal with the Father" Not sure what you mean by "not co-eternal", but we believe that Jesus Christ is the son of God the Father and that he is the God of this world. We believe that through his atonement, he made it possible for all of us to return to live with him and our Father in Heaven eternally. We believe him to be the creator of this world, under the direction of our Father in Heaven. We believe him to be with our Father in Heaven. John 17: 3 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. Acts 4: 10 10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole. 3. Belief that the Holy Bible is errant due to interpretation issues:"If the Book of Mormon is true, the Bible is true. The Bible is the Testament of the Old World; the Book of Mormon is the Testament of the New. One is the record of Judah; the other is the record of Joseph, and they have come together in the hand of the Lord in fulfilment of the prophecy of Ezekiel. (See Ezek. 37:19.) Together they declare the Kingship of the Redeemer of the world and the reality of his kingdom." --President Gordon B. Hinckley Tambuli, Oct. 1988 4. Belief that the Standard Works and the official prophetic words of LDS prophets are equal or superior to the Bible I think the quote in # 3 answers this also. 5. Belief that salvation, at the general level, does not require Jesus, and at the highest level (exaltation) requires more than Jesus (sacraments and allegiance to an organization) There is an excellent talk on www.lds.org. Go to library, click on html, and search for talk: Marion G. Romney, “Principles of Temporal Salvation,” Tambuli, Oct. 1981. He expresses very well our ideas on salvation. Hope that clears up alittle mud...

I believe the atonement to be the saving grace for all men. Every man, woman, or child that has ever lived upon the face of the earth, or does now, or will is saved through the atonement, in that he or she will be resurrected with an Eternal body of flesh and bone. This is God and Jesus Christ's gift to us. No matter how good or bad we have been, we will go through eternity with a body. That was our gift, for being born into this world. From there, we have everything to do with determining where we spend eternity with that body. Those that have never been taught of Christ or his word, will have a chance to hear and accept or reject it. Those who have literally lived their lives as the scum of the earth and murdered and done all manner of evil will be placed as far from God as his law will allow, whether that be in the lowest degrees of the Telestial Kingdom or Outer Darkness, according to the knowledge and understanding of his word. Our faith, obedience, love of God and mankind, and our works determine where salvation takes the rest of us. Salvation comes through repentance and obedience to God's commands. Exaltation comes through obedience to the higher laws. Those higher laws being our temple work and obedience to the covenants made in the temple...

I stumbled on to the original site here several years ago. I was in a div. had a terminally ill son and many other things going on in my life. I was scared, never had had much to do with internet and knew nothing about chatting in a chatroom. And of course we hear all of the horror stories and little about the really good events that go on. BenRaines was head moderator of this site at that time, and he and the mods took me under their wings, and taught me how to conduct myself and how to handle how others conducted themselves. I met and made some very good friends that I am still friends with 8 years later. There were many in this site that sat in the chatroom with me half the night, helping me stay awake as I watched over my son the last 6 or 8 months of his life when someone had to be awake watching over him 24/7. Then when he passed away, they were still here to help me through my grief. This room has given me back more than I will ever give it or the wonderful people that were there then or that are here now. When the room went down, my heart was broken. BenRaines emailed me last month telling me it was back up again, and of course I followed him back as several others from the old chat did also. We found alot of great people waitting here for us, when we arrived. The site has progressed considerably and we that have returned after being gone for what, 3 years, are slowly finding our way back. We have tried other rooms, but none of them worked out. I feel like I have found my way back home. The site is what we make it. It can be bad if that is what we are looking for, it can be good, or it can be great. For it to be great, it takes all of us respecting each other, and being willing to tolerate our differences. Only thing is, this site is very habit forming, lol.... But, that does not have to necessarily be a bad thing. We have a great place to chat and share opinions and ideas and I am grateful to Heather for providing it for us, and to each of you for what you add to the site and for broadening my views.

HAPPY BIRTHDAY AND I HOPE YOU DO SOMETHING SPECIAL JUST FOR YOU TODAY. Have a great one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am grateful to have a good family and be born of good parents, that I know loved me. My brothers are not members of the church, but they are good men and I love them and their families. My parents were not members of the church, as I said. My mother was baptized just over 4 years ago, and now the work has been done for both her and Dad. I feel it a priviledge to be sealed to these two wonderful people.

We all have that side to our families, Franken, atleast all the ones I know of... I was only one in my family that was member for years. I waitted 40 years to see My mom baptised. Every wonderful, good family I know, in or out of the church, always has someone that is not quite at the level they would like for them to be. We don't stop loving them, we just love them more. I have heard BenRaines say many times, you love the person, not the wrongs they do. (I know I did not say it right Ben, but I got the idea across, lol). I think all of our families are far from perfect, because we as people are far from perfect. But we love each member just the same, even if we hate the sin....

LOL@Tammy Well said dear and good sense of humor... You and Snow can keep us in stitches..