prisonchaplain

Nope. Just DSM-V.

I've realized how dirty and corrupt politics are when pundits/analysts use the phrase "adult in the room" to describe a candidate, and it's akin to the kiss of death.

This gets said a lot, but it's not true. Most Christian denominations agree on most of what the Bible says. Differences arise more from what is emphasized than what it taught. It is modern psychology that seems to be "not super clear." DSM-IV labeled transgenderism "gender dysphoria." The most current version does not do so. Why? I suspect it has more to do with politics and history, than with advancements in the field. Apparently, many psychologists believe that the dominant Judeo-Christian culture co-opted psychology in the past, so "errors" must be corrected, and psychology must never again be subservient to religion. Even if psychology was co-opted by religion in the past, could we not then argue that it is co-opted by secularism now? Scripture and revelation should be our go-to's. Culture, psychology, and the words of the experts should all serve to give context to our understandings, but they should never trump God's words.

I was curious about the church's actual stance on tattooing. It appears similar to that found in many Christian churches: perhaps not officially banned, but strongly and repeatedly discouraged. Through a visit to the church's website, I first found an article that referenced treating our bodies as temples of the Holy Spirit--an instruction with even more meaning for LDS than for most Christians (though it's the most common reason many of us give for not drinking alcohol). The site also had an article by Dr. Barton (M.D.) that doubled down on the discouragement, comparing tattooing to breaking the WoW. Sometimes unspoken rules are stronger than official ones. I suspect that more LDS break the WoW than sport tattoos, in part because there's no permanent evidence of the former. The foolish notion that we can repent and be forgiven of our sins, therefore sinning is not so bad, is more tempting when there's no permanently visible marks.

I confess to being confused about all this weakness/vice talk. @prisonchaplainwould never past pictures about harmful substances.

Actually, assuming @NeuroTypical is not suicidal, this would have been the least dangerous year to go full burning man with little actual harm:

I may not agree with the LDS teaching about the deification of faithful believers, but I would not compare it with Jones' assertion. He called himself God Almighty God, and intimated that the path to deification was to follow Jones.

Sounds wonderful. I wouldn't dare say that Krispy Kreme is better--but I appreciate their 50% discount for first responders (including correctional workers). 🙌 BTW, I believe that @Traveler has discovered how we can achieve world peace. Every time someone mentions Trump, pro or con, just hand that person a donut. The quiet and sweetness that results will bring what we all seek. 😁

There is far too much questioning of leadership and second-guessing. So many Christian churches lost members and adherents because the pastor was thought to be too acquiescent to government mask mandates, or not diligent enough in promoting them. The cliche "holier than thou," is an actual thing. There are many people who believe they are holier than church leadership. On the other hand, we are all commanded to exercise the Spirit's gift of discernment. How often is a decision made and members are asked to signify if the Holy Spirit has confirmed the decision to them? I'm old enough to remember the tragedy of the People's Temple (Rev. Jim Jones) tragedy. For those unaware, he took about 1,000 members from his California church and set up Jonestown, in Guyana. Nearly a year later they were all dead--having committed mass suicide. The phrase, "Don't drink the Kool Aide" literally came from that tragedy. Sadly, more than a year earlier Jim Jones was preaching in his church. He said, "I want you to be gods as I am God. I tell you; I am God Almighty God!" After proclaiming this heresy, a lady towards the back (I heard the actual recording) said, "Amen! Praise Jesus!" Humility is the answer. Generally, submitting to authority is appropriate. However, the ultimate humility is to obey the Holy Spirit.

A group of same-sex attracted Christian men came to Dr. Throckmorton (professor of Psychology at Grove City College) and asked that he facilitate their group. Their desire was to live celibate lives because they believed scripture did not allow them to live out their desires. He agreed and supported these men with psychology and Bible studies. Eventually he proposed a Sexual Identity Framework to APA and was approved. The head of the APA committee responded to criticism by saying, "It's amazing to many of us, but for some people who they worship is more important than who they bed." All that to say that we are never wrong when we lovingly stick to what scripture says.

Perhaps the GIFTS of the Spirit are those explicitly listed in scriptures, whereas other attributes, such as kindness, might be considered FRUITS?

I'm the product of a four-year, liberal arts education. I changed my major once--though quite drastically. Also, I'm not working in the fields I majored in. Nevertheless, my broad, somewhat impractical education prepared me well for professional life. They can never take education from you! Having said all that, two of my three daughters took community college in lieu of high school their last two years. Those two completed their college in 3 years because of transfer credits. Even with the Master of Divinity, several schools have taken to offering freshman a pathway to complete it (and their BA's) in 5 years (it normally takes 7). So, yes, streamline where possible. I'm not sure offering a shorter program (96 v. 126 credits) is the answer, unless the incoming student could show equivalent work or CLEP out of the missing classes.

I'm sometimes accused of being a minimalist. In this case, I'm trying to find the bare bones difference between creation ex nihilo (out of nothing) and pre-existence as it relates to our choosing to follow Christ or not. If I understand @Vort correctly, pre-existence gives more autonomy to humans. It is also easier to say God is just if pre-existence is true, because our eternal intelligence (to the extent we understand it) weighs into our choices. We have less right to blame God for our ignorance or lack of true understanding if there is something of us that existed eternally before. Am I understanding correctly?

Perhaps Trinitarians should grapple more with God's justice. It would help us engage nonbelievers better. However, most, including myself, simply start with the belief that God is just. That's why I could discount the philosophy professor who argued that if God knows what will happen there can be no free will. If God is just then he made us with free will and even though He knows what we will do we still had the authority to make our choices. I suspect that @Traveler is suggesting that the doctrine of preexistence solves this dilemma. Most Trinitarians don't believe there is a dilemma. God is just, we have free will, and we were created at conception. We do not see the problem--though I understand why a skeptic might struggle with God knowing vs. free will.

Let me start by noting @Traveler's joining of the doctrine of agency (contrasted with free will) and that of pre-existence. He appears to say that without pre-existence agency could not be understood as the church teaches it. I'd like to hear more if others have thoughts on how closely these two teachings mingle.

Perhaps no reasonable person NEEDS to be convinced, but we all love it when someone recognizes the rightness of our cause. Wait? You agree that I'm aggrieved???!!! Thanks for the donuts!

IMHO the Bible is pretty clear about there being only two genders. @NeuroTypical mentioned the creation account. That would be my first go-to. My church has what we call a position paper on sexuality--including genders. I found this, as well: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/transgender-understanding-yourself/how-does-the-church-define-gender?lang=eng#p7' The answer is shorter than the URL. Pretty clear too! 😉

It sounds wonderful, but what beverage could possibly wash all that down that doesn't break the WoW? ❓

@JohnsonJonesis much more diligent than I am. Thank you for your thoughtful and informative post above. Mine shall be much shorter, though hopefully of some use. 1. Concerning eternal human pre-existence. I've come partway to the LDS understanding. We are eternal in the sense--as mentioned--that God is omniscient and has always known who he would create and how our lives play out. That we were in God's thoughts from eternity is something deeper than I can imagine. It's not what LDS mean by pre-existence, but it's probably more than what most non-LDS have meditated on. While the passages you cite may not, in themselves, convince me of eternal human intelligence they do demonstrate the possibility of it. I imagine that if I came to believe that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God then this doctrine would not be difficult for me to embrace. 2. As for the fairness of human existence--I actually addressed this in my sermon today--at the prison. I spoke of the contrast between prison chaplains in the U.S. and clergy in China. Here we are employed by our governments and given full access to the prison. I'm invited in, trained, badged, and welcomed. In contrast, my Chinese clergy brothers are arrested and incarcerated for preaching the Good News. Often they are beaten. Then there are the brothers/sisters in N. Korea. If a Bible portion is found in their home they, their parents, and the children are imprisoned. The law is to the third generation. Why the disparity? Is God unjust? My take is that they will be honored by me in glory. God trusts them more than he trusts me with that burden. Thank you again. I hope my explanations offer some insight and perspective from a non-LDS POV.

It's just a staff retreat. I'm sure we'll be gone within 3 days. 😁😁😁😁😁

OKAY...the next Thirdhour.org staff meeting is scheduled at @zil2's house. Home-made waffles and home-made syrup are on the menu. Coolio!

YES. Most Christian groups teach that we were created when we were conceived--that our eternal nature is true moving forward, but not backward. I'm a traditionalist in that regard, though I realize that there is something of us that is eternal because we've likely always been in God's thoughts.

@mirkwood, you've been warned. I'd attend every meeting on your calendar, FAITHFULLY. Miss even one and you're likely to be elected chairmen of the board! Congratulations in advance.

Most Christian denominations would appreciate the article's emphasis on the differences between Father and Son. Trinitarians agree that the Father and Son are distinct beings. The main area of disagreement would be the doctrine that human intelligence was eternal in the pre-existence.

I just read a Christian Post article about the video/song. Apparently, many did not like it. However, the author said that while he bemoaned the conspiracies and victimhood that so many who supported the last president expressed, he came to understand why they felt as they did and elected someone to go north of Richmond and blow everything up. I haven't heard the song and have my own biases against conspiracies and victimhood. Nevertheless, a call to active listening is always healthy.