prisonchaplain

I get it @LDSGator. I wish both political sides would do the opposite--Liberals to Conservatives: We'll have Biden step down if you have Trump step down. Conservatives: OK. Now you see why I look to Jesus, rather than politics, for my miracles. 😁

Yikes. To be honest, I went through an AY stage--even read Atlas Shrugged. Alas, I came to realize that she was a militant atheist and simply mirrored the Communists that I (and she) despised. From the AY Institute: Follow reason, not whims or faith.

Today...right now...I am reminded of how grateful I should be to be the father of daughters. 😉

As FYI, our Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints volunteers show episodes of The Chosen during their midweek program. I told them I had seen a few episodes and found them engaging and well-done. They certainly compare well to many faith-based films done in the past. 😉

I doubt we'd find as much similarity on most topics @Carborendum but our common belief in continuing revelation is one with much agreement.

A distinct doctrine of the Church of Jesus Christ Latter-day Saints is that God still speaks today. Then again, Pentecostals and Charismatics also believe this--though we experience it mostly through the gifts of tongues and interpretations or through prophetic words. How can we (Pentecostals/Charismatics) tell when an interpretation or prophetic word is from God? How do we discern truth from a false word? I addressed this topic in my sermon today--Hearing the Voice of God:

@Traveler you question would have seemed out of place a couple of decades ago. Today, so many younger Evangelicals are asking the same question. Indeed, Francis Chan wrote a book defending the traditional doctrine of hell. He's not a modernist and he's not so young. However, he pokes at Evangelical culture--especially the megachurch phenomenon (and he should know--he pastored one). For a man in his mid-to-late 40s he's very aware of today's culture. All that to say you have expressed well questions that have become both urgent and important WITHIN Evangelical Christianity: Why must hell be so painful and why must it last forever? My answer is my own. It is an idea for consideration--based on some biblical ideas imho--but it is not any particular church's official defense. Here it is: To reject God is an eternal decision--one made knowingly and willfully. Since heaven has the presence of God everywhere rejectors would hate it. Imagine being in a place where you could not escape the one you despise. He's in every atom. His presence literally lights the entire realm. So, the only acceptable place is one in which God is not present--hell. Since the great rejection is of an eternal God the rejection must be eternal as well. What makes my understanding justified is that those who reject God, on a deep, spiritual level, know what they are doing? Romans 1 says that we are without excuse. Of course, there are some who have never had the gospel presented to them, and we Evangelicals do not baptize the dead. So, what of them? My view is that general revelation is enough--that creation cries out that God is. Thus, those who do not embrace God knowingly reject Him. This understanding leads me to believe that many who have not had a formal presentation of the gospel have, nevertheless, accepted Christ through the embrace of the Creator and his goodness. I still support missions and strongly believe in sharing faith. However, the All-Knowing God is well able to read hearts/minds/souls and knows who embraces Him and who does not. My answer may not be perfect, and many traditional Christians would disagree with parts of it. However, it is accurate in my always humble opinion. 😉

Just as many outside of liturgical churches do not understand, and often denigrate the alleged "vain repetiions," so many belittle the mandatory volunteer work in your community. What you describe here is beautiful and to be lauded.

A common refrain in Evangelical circles is that we must get outside the church walls. The idea is that we spend too much time inside our church walls blessing ourselves and we do precious little out in our communities--presumably where God would having us being his salt and light. Some of us (mostly older folks, I'm afraid) are pushing back against this idea (complaint) because: 1. We do plenty that blesses 'the world' (prison ministry, homeless ministry, crisis response ministry, volunteering (mostly individual), etc.). 2. We only spend 2-3 hours per week in church, and already represent the faith the rest of the time. We probably need to spend more time inside the walls and our teachers need to be less afraid of delivering the meat of the word (v. always bringing lite, easy instruction). Do the same conversations take place among saints? Does the system of volunteer callings keep this balance from becoming an issue?

I'm probably closer to @Carborendum on this one. China can hurt us plenty. My financial advisor doesn't think it's likely, but the group says that if any country can create economic havoc it's China. Then there is Taiwan, N. Korea, and their funding of divisive elements in our society--including spiritual ones. My only point is that they aren't that smart about spirituality--perhaps more the "useful idiots" for the devil. Sometimes ignorance is more dangerous, though.

I doubt that China is that intentional about morally corrupting us. They probably fund divisive politics and media, but material mean to corrupt our morals--I doubt that the Communists are that spiritually savvy. On the other hand, the father of lies might have inspired some less intentional moves that are anti-gospel. Perhaps I am cynical, but I question all theories that ascribe spiritual astuteness to governments (including our own).

The LDS view of hades as being for only a few, and that it is a temporary state for many who end up there, may appeal to some broadly. The teaching that post-death a soul may progress might also appeal. However, I doubt that these teachings are an area of outreach or collaboration with Pentecostals. This part of the board is not so much for explaining Christian views, but most Pentecostals are very traditional on this doctrine--after death, it's heaven or hades.

So much could be said @Carborendum. Suffice to say you did great work "visiting those in prison." During the jail incident you kept your young adult feelings to yourself. You could not be Christlike because Jesus actually knew people's hearts. You had your intuition, but remained calm and did your best for that stage in life at listening to the Holy Spirit. The fact that you believed the person was rebelling against God and society was probably more right than sin--especially since you checked yourself and attempted to let God lead. Try not to hold on to unmerited guilt. The accuser of the brethren (Satan) is the guiltiest one of all.

On the flip side, a minister once walked into the program room while the lights were out. The officer (we don't call them guards anymore) tried to explain why she should not walk into a room when the lights were out because it was not safe, and she snapped, "I'm a minister. I can't think that way!!" The officer let me know and I counseled the volunteer to listen respectfully to officers. She did not have to think like one, but she needed to heed their counsel. 😉

Thank you for the testimony. I never try to be judge or jury. A common saying in prisons (federal and state) is, "They are here AS punishment not FOR punishment." Also, "Reentry begins the first day of incarceration." So, it's always hard to hear about how difficult some find prison--and how prison systems sometimes fall short. BTW, I believe the church usually sends volunteers (perhaps through the calling system), not missionaries. I may make mention of moderating a forum--but only if it comes up organically. The focus is empowering the incarcerated to explore faith. My role is to empower volunteers to bring their best.

I've reached the halfway point in my 3-week training and look forward to opening up the chapel for programs. One of the most active and well received volunteer groups is the LDS one. I'm eager to meet and work with the volunteers. The fellow that used to come to SeaTac proved very dedicated and pleasant. Has anyone here done prison ministry for the church? I'd love to hear/read some testimonies. -- PC

I just read an article on both Lazarus' from a Bible study site. It also argued that the account of the Rich Man and Lazarus was not a parable. Beyond mentioning specific names, Jesus neither interprets what happened nor adds a moral at the end. It is almost a certainty that this Lazarus was different from the one who was raised from the dead and became a target of the religious leaders.

I'm reacting more to the title than to the episodes of encounters with the spiritually loud. My grandmother (Lutheran) hated the term "born again." She did not appreciate that Billy Graham said one must be born again to enter the Kingdom of God. Now, I would fall under the born again category. However, my understanding of what the term actually means (vs. the stereotypes) leaves me assured that grandma was indeed born again, and entered the Kingdom of God. She might not have liked what she saw in people who claimed to be born again--she might have even rejected the label--but she's with God, and I'm convinced her prayers were/are a big part of me being with God today. Ironically, her spiritual work on my behalf a likely a large contributing factor to me being born again. 🙂

I've been taught that what Jesus shared with this episode was not a parable but an account. In parables Jesus supposedly never names his characters, but here He names Lazarus. If so, this actually happened to the rich man and Lazarus. My take away is to interpret this as mostly a historical lesson and as literally as possible. Thoughts?

The Buddhist monk that used to come into the federal jail I worked at was beyond wonderful. He told Christians who wanted to learn meditation to focus on Jesus as they did so. However, he, of course, focused on Buddha. The one practice he did not like was the secularization of religious practice. For example, yoga is Hindu. He had little patience for the gyms that offered yoga minus any spirituality. He would look at me and say, "It's supposed to be about God, chaplain!" Amen. That said, imho Buddhist meditation tends to encourage inward focus. Christians of all stripes probably do too much of that. We need to focus on the Savior first, and others second. I love the JOY acronym: Jesus Others You. We should not neglect ourselves, but most of us (especially me) are in little danger of that.

Today was New Hire Orientation. My trainer was 29. To give perspective, my oldest daughter is 23. It's okay though, because this old dog is not afraid to learn new tricks. Also, it's kind of cool being in a protected category (WA asked me if I was over 40, and prohibits hiring discrimination of the elderly).

Apologies for having been away for a few months. I am back--and back to my original calling. Many of you know that I retired from federal prison chaplaincy in December 2022. For the past two years I've taught secondary Bible and US History at a local Christian school. Beginning a few months ago I sensed God drawing me back to chaplaincy. I checked with the state DOC (WA), and there was a position at the women's facility. God opened the door, and I start full-time, beginning tomorrow. So prisonchaplain is a prison chaplain again! 🙂 I figured that this was also a good time for me to return to thirdhour.org, say hello to old friends, and perhaps even make a few new ones. -- PC

You could be right. If so, it's beyond ironic. BUT ... I'll take it. 😉

This is a doctrine we can agree on! My stumbling block comes when the enemy tries to convince me that the other 90% is mine to do with as I please. 😶

Well-behaved (yes, especially those who with abundant love for the difficult ones) can win converts to almost any faith tradition. It takes a compelling God to keep 'em though--especially when those less abundant in love make sideways comments. 😬