prisonchaplain

I listened to the first section. Dr. Thomas is clearly an academic and has the backing of his seminary and denomination. Further, there is a review on Amazon that calls Dr. Thomas fair (she gave him 5-stars). My sense is that folks here may find it interesting because the author is not LDS but is respectful and even-handed.

As FYI, I will listen to the clip. However, it is impressive that this seminary professor took on this project. The Church of God Cleveland, TN is respected, and the fact that the fellowship's flagship seminary would allow one of its professors to do it speaks well. I strongly suspect that he had official approval, given where he teaches. I look forward to this. 🙂

I bolded the two parts that raised questions/thoughts. The first is that I do not believe the promise of Moroni calls for an in-depth study of the BoM. Rather, it is to be read with an open and seeking heart. Even that summary includes my assumption. The promise just asks the seeker to read it and pray. Many non-LDS read the BoM and come away without a testimony. It may well be that in most of these cases, and perhaps my own faltered on this account, the lack of testimony was due to the reader not sensing a lack--a need--for more. Even though I may want all the truth God has for me, it may well be that because I believe the Bible contains all that I need, then despite my professed willingness to receive more (i.e. the BoM if it is indeed true), if I don't need it to be true, then my openness may not be enough. I can accept that as a possible reason. On the second part, I do loathe some of the efforts of anti-LDS folks--including some in my own faith--because their attempts to destroy a particular brand of faith ends up destroying all faith. Former members of many religions tell Evangelicals, "I'd love to be born again but I don't want to be burned again."

Great redirection @Traveler!

My memory was right then...which leads me to believe that the passage in the OP might refer to the outer darkness rather than one of the lesser kingdoms. @Just_A_Guy seems to suggest possible annihilation. Is there no official understanding (I know that there are many questions we do not have conclusive answers to)?

This can't be good--to be cast away from God's presence forever. I know that the terrestrial and telestial kingdoms are not what God-seekers pursue, but the passage sounds like a punishment--a condemnation even. Is it true that there will be no godly presence at all in the lower kingdoms?

I think what you were trying to say is that I was wrong. Sometimes it's good to be wrong. 🙂

Balancing my faith in the leading of the Holy Spirit with the spiritual caution that the human heart is deceitful above all else, I must constantly seek the Spirit's guidance while remaining vigilant against blaming my own cravings on God. 😉

My apologies to the site...I've been gone for quite a while because I thought the site was going to close. I felt prompted to come tonight just to make sure, and it appears that all is well and active. So, as a brief update on me...I retired from prison chaplaincy in Dec. 2020, and am now teaching civics at a Christian school. I look forward to reengaging. PC

As FYI, especially for @Traveler, my fellowship is unique, in that our ordination process is completely separate from our educational institutions. As a rather humorous example, one fellow graduated from our seminary with a Master of Divinity, and went across the tunnel to our headquarters. He went to the employment desk and said, "Okay. I have my degree. Now, where's my church?" The bewildered secretary basically said he was totally unqualified, because he was not even ordained as a minister. We require that our clergy candidates first sense a call directly from God. Then they go through the local church offices (similar to a stake office, I suppose). There is a process, which does include some study (though there are correspondence classes that would supply the knowledge). Further, there are interviews to help discern if a candidate really has a call from God, and then if s/he believes and teaches sound doctrine. It's not the same as LDS, of course. However, we do share a recognition that God's call is primary, and that the process of ordination is basically to confirm what God is doing.

Of course the church leaders are right. Reasoned conservatives and liberals agreed. As for the diversion to immigration, shame on the richest, most powerful nation on earth, for having such as backlogged, ineffective immigration system. If the incoming POTUS wants to polish his moderate credentials, passing an intelligent immigration reform bill would go far. Stop the wall, to please liberals. Overhaul the legacy equipment and data systems that makeup the application system to deal with the real problem. And, of course, beef up electronic, technological, and law enforcement monitoring and security, to please conservatives. I suspect that if the moderate majority could clean up our system, there would be little incentive for mass caravans.

Thank you, @Just_A_Guy. I've been here for several years, and have done some reading. However, a convert to the church who has been with you six-months may well know more than me. My main purpose for this string, which came to me as I was preparing this Sunday School lesson, was simply to better understand the LDS perspective. I know the priesthood has more meaning for you, and that Melchizedek is especially important. So, I figured I'd just ask. It was great to discover that the overarching supremacy of Christ is quite clear in your teaching--that what has been added to the priesthood understanding did not detract from the key truth that we share.

Thank you, @Vort. Your explanation helps--especially the first few sentences. Hebrews is largely meant to affirm the supremacy of Christ, so to read the understanding that the priesthood is Christ helps.

I'm preparing a Sunday School for Hebrews 5, and verse 6 struck me. 6 As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec. The author is explaining that Jesus is a priest, but different from the Levitical, or Aaronite, priesthood. Commentators suggest that this designation directly relates to Jesus' Sonship with Heavenly Father. So, what is the LDS understanding? I know that young men can be welcomed into the priesthood of Aaron, and that older men do enter the priesthood of Melchizedek. What does this mean, in terms non-LDS can understand?

I'm wondering if Heavenly Father has spoken any particular words into the lives of forum folk. The word that came to me is HOPE. We still have several months to grapple with COVID, but this will be a better year, and I am sensing an underlying strength--God's presence!

The Book of Esther does not mention God either, yet in the scriptures it remains. This reminds me of a current controversy over the song "The Reckless Love of God." God cannot be "reckless" so the song is said to be heresy. I'd argue that the vastness of God's love for us is indescribable--so we use feeble human words like "reckless." I guess that makes me a heretic. Hope I can keep my job here. 😮

Christmas 2020--and my last day as supervisory chaplain at the jail. I'll do some visitation around the building, clean out the office and close out this very rich, fulfilling calling. My staff chaplain keeps telling me, "BTB, brother! Better Than Before!" He's got it. What lies ahead is better than that which has gone before. The capstone will be opening presents tonight with the fam bam! I gotta love my girls--they say they like opening presents Christmas Day evening. I suspect it's because they are okay with my calling, and perhaps with me.

I was speaking with my 16-year old about the differences between millennials and her generation. She said that millennials were really good with sympathy. They're all pretty much mentally ill, but they comfort each other. Racism? It hurts so bad, and I feel so much guilt/shame/anger. Gen Z, on the other hand, we know we're sick, but we just make a joke out of it. We're not so great at sympathy, but we are resilient. Beyond all the provisos about stereotypes and not everyone fitting into neat categories, any thoughts on this? True? False? Insightful? Not so much? BTW Merry Christmas everyone!

Nobody wants to admit the obvious--the worry that maybe she is scamming him. Still, the right and godly thing to do is to speak blessing into their new life together, and to pray that God draw them together, even as they are jointly drawn closer to Heavenly Father. Further--if I am deeply worried, I ought to pray even harder that God will protect the brother, and perhaps even help her to develop a sincere love for him.

We watched Crash Into You (sorry, can't check the title from work)--a good portion of it is set in a supposed North Korea, and is said to be fairly accurate. It's comedic, has a love story, and some interesting social commentary. Now I'm watching Memories of Alhemadra (again with title check). It's got some sci fi, but took me a couple episodes to get into. IMHO, K-Drama dominates the Asian drama category. In fact, I believe Netflix has it separate.

:::Cough::: :::Sputter:::: Well....er...uh...you're right. I am almost radical in my support of the electoral college. Perhaps what is niggling at me about Trump's challenges is that they do undermine confidence in our slightly complicated system of elections. I would hate to see Democrats use these allegations as an excuse to transition to a simplified popular vote. I'm glad Trump was President, but have to admit that HRC was the better person in this regard. FWIW, Had Trump conceded after the electoral college results were in, I suspect most would have forgiven his push. :::sigh:::

I don't know that he's "fundamentally wrong." However, he's being a sore loser, unpresidential, stirring up unnecessary anger and conspiracy theories, and very much putting himself before all else. He's not being illegal, nor going against any official rules. He is being classless. Put simply, he's not ending well. I'm not angry at Trump. He did far better for Christians than we expected. I just find this last chapter disappointing.

1. I suspect there will always be a measure of fraud. This side of the heavenly kingdom(s), with 10s of millions of votes, districts and states with heavy party majorities, etc. there will be a measure. Does the fraud rise to a level of significance? Could it have turned several state races, given the numbers. Could the rate of fraud have been higher than the 4% by which Biden won? I suspect far fewer than half the country believes that, even if there had been no fraud at all, Trump would have won. 2. As I understand it, they have reported, and January is the official turn-in. Also, I'm fairly certain that Trump had the December date in mind when he promised to abide. There is a real feeling that he is moving the goal posts. 3. IF the majority truly believes that a president-elect was not truly elected by a fair election then, depending on how skewed people believe the results were, we could see anything from civil war to a "We'll get them back with the next election" approach. In this case, I suspect even a significant portion of Trump-supporters believe the election was super close, and so will eventually look to proving their point in future elections.

I thought I would take a crack at these. By way of disclosure, I was one of those Evangelical Christians that voted for Trump to protect religious liberty and place conservative judges. His immigration policies were ineffective, imho. HIs trade approach surprised and changed me. I've been a free trade advocate, but POTUS correctly saw China for the danger it is, and convinced me that trade should be fair, not free. His crude approach was probably needed for the four years he was in. OK, so here we are. I'm not an expert, an analyst, a pollster, or even one who's taken a Statistics course. My impression is that there were some shenanigans surrounding the election. However, President-Elect Biden won the popular vote by over 4%, and it seems pretty obvious he won the electoral college. POTUS promised to honor the electoral college vote. His campaign repeatedly promised definitive evidence. At this point, he does appear to be the sore loser. He's not exposing a new level of election fraud, he's hyping the typical level and making it appear to be more than it is. The reason that so many (I do not believe it is anywhere near half the country) believe Biden lost is because Trump says so, and they believe him. It's time for conservatives to cut our loss, and accept our major wins (the House and Senate went much better than expected, and our judges are in). Further, we should be laser-focused on winning the GA senate races, so the Senate can be a bulwark against the radical wing of the Democratic party. Further, I sincerely hope Trump settles for being a voice in the GOP, and does not seek to mount a 2024 run. That ship done left the harbor.

There is so much here. It can be overwhelming. Lately, I have read some Christian dystopian future fiction. They tend to depict calamity that can be political (upheaval, civil war with a small-c, etc.), economic (fiat money exposed as worthless), or technological (EM pulse, etc.). There's always a survivalist Christian who was smart enough to see it coming, and he runs a safe haven until criminal elements (or the U.N.) come and try to fix them. The problem is that the heroes almost always end up doing some rather harsh actions in the name of saving their righteous peers from bad guys. Sometimes the Left Behind heroes were guilty of that, as well. Personally, Rapture-believer that I am, I suspect that things will settle down, go back to the immoral equilibrium, and that most will be lulled back into complacency. Then, at a time and hour when people do not expect, the LORD will return. In the mean time, we share faith, be good neighbors, and pray for our leaders (and pay tax).