prisonchaplain

I may have learned more about the church from this string than I did from most others. 😉

I was trying to meet those suffering halfway. 🤷‍♂️

There are 3 genders. 1. Male 2. Female 3. Gender Dysphoria about 1. or 2.

I wonder if it would be too much to define spirituality as a vague form of religiosity. Often the only people that will own the label atheist are those who want to be perceived as intellectual and blunt. Most find such impolite. And yet, they really aren't religious or spiritual. They're just too lazy to be atheists. Or they just don't think any of it is important. IMHO the people least likely to repent/convert are those who are self-satisfied with their vague goodness and equally nebulous spirituality.

I may be betraying my age, but I grew hearing that religion is bad. For Christians, the refrain was, "It's not a religion, it's a relationship." The idea being that everyone else had to be religious because they were trying to reach God. Religion was humanity's attempt to find God. We learned that God came after us by sending Jesus to die for our sins. Non-Christians, and some progressive ones, were fond of saying, "I'm not religious, I'm spiritual." What they meant was that organized religions were about systems and rules and programs. They were about personally connecting with their higher power. My argument, as a chaplain, is that religion is good. If people are trying to reach God the Old Testament, New Testament, and Book of Mormon proclaim that they will find Him. As a great example, I've heard stories of Muslims having dreams of Jesus coming to them. Since Islam teaches that Jesus is a prophet, they listen carefully. After all, we should listen to and heed what prophets tell us, right? (i hear the faithful church members saying 'amen.') Jesus tells them that he is more than a prophet--he is the Savior--the Son of God. They listen and some convert, because they are religious. Their religion teaches them that Jesus is to be listened to because he is a prophet. So, no, religion will not redeem anyone. However, religion--a seeking after God--can build a spiritual bridge that can lead the soul to conversion/salvation. Bottom-line: Religion is good.

People with hot wives can eat pudding any way they want. I do. 😉

You make him sound like the adult in the room. 😉

Somebody raised this string from the dead! My short answer is that the first word most English-speaking infants learn is: NO!

Nope. Just DSM-V.

I've realized how dirty and corrupt politics are when pundits/analysts use the phrase "adult in the room" to describe a candidate, and it's akin to the kiss of death.

This gets said a lot, but it's not true. Most Christian denominations agree on most of what the Bible says. Differences arise more from what is emphasized than what it taught. It is modern psychology that seems to be "not super clear." DSM-IV labeled transgenderism "gender dysphoria." The most current version does not do so. Why? I suspect it has more to do with politics and history, than with advancements in the field. Apparently, many psychologists believe that the dominant Judeo-Christian culture co-opted psychology in the past, so "errors" must be corrected, and psychology must never again be subservient to religion. Even if psychology was co-opted by religion in the past, could we not then argue that it is co-opted by secularism now? Scripture and revelation should be our go-to's. Culture, psychology, and the words of the experts should all serve to give context to our understandings, but they should never trump God's words.

I was curious about the church's actual stance on tattooing. It appears similar to that found in many Christian churches: perhaps not officially banned, but strongly and repeatedly discouraged. Through a visit to the church's website, I first found an article that referenced treating our bodies as temples of the Holy Spirit--an instruction with even more meaning for LDS than for most Christians (though it's the most common reason many of us give for not drinking alcohol). The site also had an article by Dr. Barton (M.D.) that doubled down on the discouragement, comparing tattooing to breaking the WoW. Sometimes unspoken rules are stronger than official ones. I suspect that more LDS break the WoW than sport tattoos, in part because there's no permanent evidence of the former. The foolish notion that we can repent and be forgiven of our sins, therefore sinning is not so bad, is more tempting when there's no permanently visible marks.

I confess to being confused about all this weakness/vice talk. @prisonchaplainwould never past pictures about harmful substances.

Actually, assuming @NeuroTypical is not suicidal, this would have been the least dangerous year to go full burning man with little actual harm:

I may not agree with the LDS teaching about the deification of faithful believers, but I would not compare it with Jones' assertion. He called himself God Almighty God, and intimated that the path to deification was to follow Jones.

Sounds wonderful. I wouldn't dare say that Krispy Kreme is better--but I appreciate their 50% discount for first responders (including correctional workers). 🙌 BTW, I believe that @Traveler has discovered how we can achieve world peace. Every time someone mentions Trump, pro or con, just hand that person a donut. The quiet and sweetness that results will bring what we all seek. 😁

There is far too much questioning of leadership and second-guessing. So many Christian churches lost members and adherents because the pastor was thought to be too acquiescent to government mask mandates, or not diligent enough in promoting them. The cliche "holier than thou," is an actual thing. There are many people who believe they are holier than church leadership. On the other hand, we are all commanded to exercise the Spirit's gift of discernment. How often is a decision made and members are asked to signify if the Holy Spirit has confirmed the decision to them? I'm old enough to remember the tragedy of the People's Temple (Rev. Jim Jones) tragedy. For those unaware, he took about 1,000 members from his California church and set up Jonestown, in Guyana. Nearly a year later they were all dead--having committed mass suicide. The phrase, "Don't drink the Kool Aide" literally came from that tragedy. Sadly, more than a year earlier Jim Jones was preaching in his church. He said, "I want you to be gods as I am God. I tell you; I am God Almighty God!" After proclaiming this heresy, a lady towards the back (I heard the actual recording) said, "Amen! Praise Jesus!" Humility is the answer. Generally, submitting to authority is appropriate. However, the ultimate humility is to obey the Holy Spirit.

A group of same-sex attracted Christian men came to Dr. Throckmorton (professor of Psychology at Grove City College) and asked that he facilitate their group. Their desire was to live celibate lives because they believed scripture did not allow them to live out their desires. He agreed and supported these men with psychology and Bible studies. Eventually he proposed a Sexual Identity Framework to APA and was approved. The head of the APA committee responded to criticism by saying, "It's amazing to many of us, but for some people who they worship is more important than who they bed." All that to say that we are never wrong when we lovingly stick to what scripture says.

Perhaps the GIFTS of the Spirit are those explicitly listed in scriptures, whereas other attributes, such as kindness, might be considered FRUITS?

I'm the product of a four-year, liberal arts education. I changed my major once--though quite drastically. Also, I'm not working in the fields I majored in. Nevertheless, my broad, somewhat impractical education prepared me well for professional life. They can never take education from you! Having said all that, two of my three daughters took community college in lieu of high school their last two years. Those two completed their college in 3 years because of transfer credits. Even with the Master of Divinity, several schools have taken to offering freshman a pathway to complete it (and their BA's) in 5 years (it normally takes 7). So, yes, streamline where possible. I'm not sure offering a shorter program (96 v. 126 credits) is the answer, unless the incoming student could show equivalent work or CLEP out of the missing classes.

I'm sometimes accused of being a minimalist. In this case, I'm trying to find the bare bones difference between creation ex nihilo (out of nothing) and pre-existence as it relates to our choosing to follow Christ or not. If I understand @Vort correctly, pre-existence gives more autonomy to humans. It is also easier to say God is just if pre-existence is true, because our eternal intelligence (to the extent we understand it) weighs into our choices. We have less right to blame God for our ignorance or lack of true understanding if there is something of us that existed eternally before. Am I understanding correctly?

Perhaps Trinitarians should grapple more with God's justice. It would help us engage nonbelievers better. However, most, including myself, simply start with the belief that God is just. That's why I could discount the philosophy professor who argued that if God knows what will happen there can be no free will. If God is just then he made us with free will and even though He knows what we will do we still had the authority to make our choices. I suspect that @Traveler is suggesting that the doctrine of preexistence solves this dilemma. Most Trinitarians don't believe there is a dilemma. God is just, we have free will, and we were created at conception. We do not see the problem--though I understand why a skeptic might struggle with God knowing vs. free will.

Let me start by noting @Traveler's joining of the doctrine of agency (contrasted with free will) and that of pre-existence. He appears to say that without pre-existence agency could not be understood as the church teaches it. I'd like to hear more if others have thoughts on how closely these two teachings mingle.

Perhaps no reasonable person NEEDS to be convinced, but we all love it when someone recognizes the rightness of our cause. Wait? You agree that I'm aggrieved???!!! Thanks for the donuts!

IMHO the Bible is pretty clear about there being only two genders. @NeuroTypical mentioned the creation account. That would be my first go-to. My church has what we call a position paper on sexuality--including genders. I found this, as well: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/transgender-understanding-yourself/how-does-the-church-define-gender?lang=eng#p7' The answer is shorter than the URL. Pretty clear too! 😉