Suzie

It is for both men and women, that's why I mentioned hormones. But geez. Let's think with our brains a bit.

I don't think I like that combo.

That's fine by me. The running water is just an example. I have no problem with yours but when you do not have peanut butter sandwiches or ramen to eat, or money to pay your little apartment, then heck no.

Anatess, If a person wants to marry it is because they love someone and they will try their best to provide for them. Granted, you never have "perfect" circumstances but basic needs, should be met. if you have do not have running water but you could change things by waiting a little bit, why can't you wait? Hormones? Naivety? What? I am really trying hard to understand why someone who is unable to meet basic needs cannot wait a bit until their situation improves in order to get married. I do not think the Church counsels that.

http://www.mormon.org/faq/serve-missions I always say that serving a mission is a privilege.

I am saying one must be able to provide basic needs for a family before they get married. I do not believe in the "I am unemployed, my soon-to-be wife is unemployed, we do not have money for rent or food or clothes but we will get married anyways, have children under these circumstances because it is a commandment of the Lord but the Church and family can help us financially".

What I am saying is (taking the running water example): IF you do not have running water and you could change that situation by waiting a bit while you can fix your situation, why the rush of getting married?. It is selfish IMO and foolish to pursue marriage and hope that your spouse and children would have to live under those circumstances just because you was desperate to tie the knot instead of waiting a little while. It is wrong, IMO. Getting married is not a race.

You made me laugh loud there. lol Thanks. Feeling super- stressed today and laughing a bit helps.

Yay!! We agree again. lol

Geez. Even 50 bucks is too much. But I admit it, I am cheap thrifty.

Now I am getting worried. lol I understand the "spoiled rotten" mentality and I fully agree with that (personally, I have zero debts and I am far from wealthy) but I think it is crazy to put children or a spouse through that (no running water, etc) IF can be helped by preparing yourself before you get married. Why rushing to get married when you (generally "you" eh) cannot even have running water? It is complete madness. Granted, many people around the world LIVE like that unfortunately, BUT I assure you that if they could, they would NOT choose to live like that. if you are making a conscious and stubborn choice of getting married despite that I think is a very selfish and foolish choice.

How long before the wedding? If it's a few days and you had already everything organized I understand but if we're talking about months before, I don't see anything wrong with postponing the wedding until you can get a job.

Yes, it seems to be cultural. I cannot imagine my parents being okay with their children (and grandchildren) living under their roof until they are 40, medical school or not.

I have mixed feelings about this. Even though I agree that it is almost obscene to see someone spending thousands/millions of dollars in something that could be used to help the poor and the needy, the same people also give a lot of money for great causes, it is not like they spend all the money for themselves. I am not sure how I feel about it.

You will have to eat lots of Top Ramen noodles.

Yay! We agree on something! lol If both are working minimum wage jobs perhaps they can maintain each other but children? Not sure. Rent, food, clothes, health, transportation?...hmmmmm. Being unemployed does not make you ineligible to think about anything you want but actually getting married if you are unemployed it is both unwise and irresponsible, IMO and I think the quote I provided earlier on supports that view (the one about having the ability to care for a family).

Figure of speech. I meant that if you do NOT have a job and the means to take care of a family and you get married even though you cannot cover your basic needs (let alone a spouse), hoping that after you get married " I have faith something will work out" is a very immature and irresponsible way (IMO) to approach a sacred covenant such as marriage. But let me ask you concretely so I can understand your position better: Do you agree (as the quote stated) that a person should have the ability to provide financially for a family, the basic needs such as food, clothing and shelter before they pursue marriage?

I see now your point of view.

Let's add: And: https://www.lds.org/topics/birth-control?lang=eng

I agree but as the quote stated, they shouldn't be thinking about it until they are able to take care of a family (IMO, basic needs). It worries me a bit the underlined thought (generally speaking) that says "Oh, don't worry, all you have to do is have faith". Faith does not feed, cloth or shelter a spouse and babies. I think is very irresponsible to get married if you aren't able to meet these needs, granted there are emergencies that occur and a person might lose a job while married etc, but other than that I do not think it is a good thing for someone to get married when they are not able to meet these needs and then perhaps expect that relatives or even the Church take care of them financially.

I go by the quotes I posted earlier in the thread. For me, the first quote is very clear and I do not believe in extremes. Self-sufficient does not mean wealthy or having two cars and a big house but for me, it means you are financially independent and have a job that can support a family and pay for food, clothing and shelter. Perhaps someone can do this before they finish school, another while in school and another person can do it after school. In the end, as the Church clearly stated: "

I go by the quotes I posted earlier in the thread. For me, the first quote is very clear and I do not believe in extremes. Self-sufficient does not mean wealthy or having two cars and a big house but for me, it means you are financially independent and have a job that can support a family and pay for food, clothing and shelter. Perhaps someone can do this before they finish school, another while in school and another person can do it after school. In the end, as the Church clearly stated: "

Pam, I have the impression that you seem to have a problem thinking that the GA could have chosen career paths with the intent of becoming wealthy. What about if they did? Do you see anything wrong with that?

Reading through the thread again...to be fair to all, the Church never counseled that people should get married BEFORE finishing school and by the other hand, the Church never counseled that people should get married AFTER finishing school. Saying this is the Church position or this isn't the Church position isn't accurate, IMO. Of course, when sharing personal opinions is all good but no more than that. It seems to me based on the quotes provided earlier in the thread that the Church position is that they want members to become self-sufficient, independent and have the ability to care for a family before they think to get married (this could be before or after finishing school) and most importantly, that the decision to marry is so important that it should be made only after the most prayerful and careful consideration. IMO, with this particular case, I think the OP shouldn't worry about marriage just yet. He should take his time to relax, learn some social skills, get to know people, make friends, go out, have fun etc since based on his account, due to his health issues, he never had that opportunity before.

Being financially stable and pursuing wealth and influence are two different things. In the Book of Mormon, the Lord never condemned riches but condemned the attitude of the rich which was to look down to those who were financially poor, think they were better than them and basically show off their riches. (Jacob 2) Seeking after wealth does not seem to be the problem as long as the person has righteous desires to help the less fortunate. It would be interesting to discuss: How many people truly think about this righteous desire when we are in a position to help others? How many of us deep inside us see the less fortunate just like unto ourselves?