Suzie

I know, sort of pathetic to quote yourself but I was just thinking the word "regularly" here. It reminded me of the WOW and eating meat "sparingly" and what exactly sparingly means to people and the fact that it is so open to interpretation. In this case, regularly could fall into that category as well, with the difference that if someone eats or doesn't eat meat sparingly there is really no way to know but if someone interpreted the counsel of bathing once a week, you could certainly tell. I know, offtopic. Blame it to Lakumi.

I felt sad in a way for him and his loved ones. Mainly for him because he probably by now realizes the torment and horror he put other people through for so many years and he must be desperately wishing he could come back and change it all or perhaps not. I do not know, I just cannot think about celebrating the death of anyone.

Actually, it all comes down to you getting the kind of professional help you need to deal with your depression and underlined issues. This is perhaps not an issue with your garments at all and little to do with willingness to sacrifice temple blessings. Depression distorts reality in many ways.

To be honest, I believe there is a lot of naivety involved with regards to how the Church generally operates. I believe the thought process is somehow like unto a child who wants something badly and they think that if they nag you enough times they would get it, Mom and Dad in this case are saying no but at the same time are saying "we cannot give you P but we are doing X or Y" to keep you happy. I don't think they are really planning this as to say "yes, we are going to shame the Church and the leaders and they will give us the Priesthood!". Think about it, it is really, really naive. The naivety comes from thinking that because the Church went through a few changes recently, mainly about tradition such as women praying in General Conference for the first time, more visibility of women, etc they automatically thought it would be treated in same way with regards to the Priesthood.

Yes, but to be honest (and I know this isn't probably a popular take) I think all Christians (including us, Mormons of course) kind of overdo it with "Satan made me do it/Satan did it" approach.

And that's what I am trying to say JAG. I agree with you, I believe they could use other methods to voice their opinion but at the same time I believe there are active members of the Church, some of our sisters from RS, doing what they think is right and I do not think they are trying to shame the Church or the authorities, at least NOT on purpose.

What I am saying is that I believe this is a cause some people believe in and I don't think Satan is putting anything in anybody's heart but simply, it is the cause that some people feel obviously passionate about and they are voicing it. Blaming Satan indirectly for their approach is not something I agree with, I think it is just people doing what they think is the right to do.

And that's the root of the problem, why make such assumptions? And yes, those are assumptions. Now, first of all let me say I do not sympathize with their cause, NOT because I believe it is wrong but simply because I do not wish to hold the Priesthood. Having said that, I think it is unfair to assume their main purpose is to heap public scorn and ridicule upon the Church so they can get the Priesthood. Perhaps there are some people who think this way but I also believe there are a lot of women who are not doing that or aiming at what you are describing. As a matter of fact, I think you are being very harsh with them JAG. But again, my approach and your approach to things like these are different. How voicing a view different from the Church makes them automatically anti-Mormons? And granted, as I said before, they could use better methods but disagreeing and voicing a different opinion than the Church has doesn't make them antis and I repeat, I would be extremely surprised if the Church decides to discipline them. We love to blame Satan for everything we do instead of taking full responsibility for our actions. In this case JAG, I don't think it has nothing to do with Satan.

Wow. Sort of glad I am not the only one receiving bizarre messages.

I doubt it VERY much. This is clearly NOT September Six, the Church has moved on from those past episodes for a long time now. They have worked fervently to let the world know about the Church and spent millions in the campaign of "I am a Mormon". They will NOT ruin it by doing anything that will make others say "See? Women in the Mormon Church have no say, they excommunicated them". The Church has been under constant scrutiny and they are going to be dealing with this issue (as well as others) through dialogue and understanding as they have been doing so far.

Shaming the Church and the leaders? Hyperbole? I do understand they could use better methods to address the issues, having said that putting them into the same category of anti-Mormons is absurd, IMO. The letter was well written, but the part about asking them to express their views in the free speech zone was a really bad PR move and most media houses picked it up. Anyhow, I just wanted to say that I understand both sides.

Pam, just curious, is the person behind "Mormon Women Stand" the one who made the interpretation about a gay agenda in the movie Frozen?

Really? I find that silly. I still don't get what the fuss of this group is all about and the scorn they are getting over these things. Even the Church is keeping in touch with them, making a few changes here and there which shows they are listening to their concerns and that's something I really appreciate so I am not sure why some people within the Church (generally speaking) wants to put them into the category of anti-Mormons or apostates.

One of my children has Aspergers, hence my comment. :)

Lakumi has Aspergers and my Aspie friends do share random facts in both speech and writing. Hope that helps.

I have a problem when people do not respect the wishes of another adult. I empathize with the mother but that approach will actually make things worse. If your child told you they do not wish to be visited by the Church, why pushing the missionaries to them?

I see a lot of this attitude in the nouveau riche. In my experience, really wealthy people are not only very down to earth but they don't have to show off or demand that others dress in a certain way to please them. Heck, sometimes the way they dress, talk and keep themselves is very modest. If you are driving a Lamborghini and stop at the red light and this old car is next to you, do you suddenly start speeding to show the other driver that you have a fancy and faster car? No, you don't.. you already know (and they know) that you have a Lamborghini.

Spencer W. Kimball:

Smith stated that the Bible verses quoted are a mistranslation and the Lord actually said that the thief would be with him in the Spirit world.

Me too. We have a couple of female spokespersons but to be honest it was just a PR move Otherwise people will start saying: "See? it is a man who is replying this letter, etc".

It seems that's what Doctrine did. The Bishop asked him if he was a full-time tithe payer and he said yes, he then asked him how he pays tithing (I suppose perhaps because he saw the records) and Doctrine answered that he paid directly to the Church. That should have been enough, IMO. I am just guessing that his Bishop isn't very familiar with this procedure and felt uncomfortable that he couldn't really see the records that shows how much Doctrine paid in tithing.

You guys talk about tithing, what about answering the question they used to ask almost 160 years ago: "Do you, and your family, wash or bathe as regularly as you are able?"

That's correct. The things that are being said are just personal interpretations and assumptions.

We discussed this issue many times (you can run a search) and I have been very candid towards past teachings and blunt towards Church leaders. Having said that, with this particular issue we seem to want to force our 2014 mindset to 19th century old men (and yes it includes the prophet and leaders) and it just doesn't work out. A few threads about the issue: http://www.lds.net/forums/lds-gospel-discussion/56776-church-issues-race-priesthood-statement-rejecting-theories-past-ban-blacks-priesthood.html http://www.lds.net/forums/lds-gospel-discussion/36633-issues-brigham-young-14.html

The thing is, let's just say for a second what you are saying is true. So far, nobody in the outside world of Mormonism seems to care too much whether or not our women hold the Priesthood.