Suzie

Actually, the district president (I keep saying Stake president but it was a district) was interrogated for four days.The interrogation lasted so long because the Gestapo did not believe that Helmuth produced those pamphlets on his own, they were written very eloquently and Helmuth ensured to take full responsibility for what was written so they could spare the lives of his friends. In his autobiography, the district president shares in detail what was the interrogation like. He was scared to death and said that the Lord listened to his prayers and he was very calm and collected during the questioning and satisfied the Gestapo. Of course, things like this mark you for life and twenty years after the incident, he never hide the fact that he was not in agreement with the way Zander operated (and other leaders), he felt that even though Latter-Day Saints shouldn't directly fight the government, they should still condemn Hitler's actions but Zander thought differently. As a matter of fact, that sign Zander placed in Church was to discourage a member of the Church in another Branch who was of Jewish descent and he told him directly that he was not welcome in his branch (they were combined priesthood meetings in Zander's branch so this member had to be there) and he would place a swastika sign outside Church and get angry with some members if they were reading anti-Hitler propaganda and threaten them to send them to concentration camps. If we combine these facts and the fact that he would force members to listen to Hitler's speeches in Church and a few other incidents, one can only guess that a young man like Helmuth (who was gifted) and active and very involved in the Church was growing visibly upset and couldn't take it any longer and decided to do something about it. Perhaps his reasoning was along the lines of: If the Branch President can bring politics inside Church, tell a member he is not welcome because he is Jewish, put a swastika outside the building and force members to listen to Hitler, why can't I use the Church typewriter to discourage and oppose Hitler? Yes, the Church typewriter that he kept at home. He was the Branch secretary and I think that's one of the reasons some members were upset with Helmuth, not only because he went against to what they were taught with regards to following the laws of the land but also because he used Church property for the purpose of opposing the government and they had to endure the unwelcome visit of Gestapo officials during Church meetings for some time after Helmuth's arrest.

He did. There are a few documentaries about Helmuth that tells us a little more about Arthur Zander. We know that Helmuth's friends who helped him with the distribution of the pamphlets, kept in contact with Zander for a few years. He was described as a good Branch President who loved Hitler so much that he would bring his radio to Church and lock the door so members were forced to listen to Hitler's speeches. He also put a sign on the Church's front door that read: "Jews not welcome". Perhaps, in his way of thinking, he was just trying to follow the counsel of his Church leaders. President Grant visited Germany around 1937 and told the Saints to keep it low, to stay there and not cause trouble so when Helmuth was arrested, his fellow Church members particularly those supporting the Nazi regime, saw him as someone who would make things harder for them. One could argue if that was indeed what the Branch President was trying to avoid, personally I think it was a mix of both, his loyalty towards the Third Reich and his fear for the people. After all, when the Stake President was interviewed by the Gestapo after Helmuth's arrest, he was told "Mormons are next".

What happens when you are caught between respecting the laws of the land or doing what is morally right? What about when you are just a teenager with dreams, hopes and ambitions and you are willing to risk your own life in order to fight a regime that spreads death and hate? What about when you are in a cold cell, and your Branch President without proper authority excommunicates you from the Church that you loved for trying to do what was right? Helmuth Hübene was just seventeen years old when he was sentenced to death by beheading in what the Third Reich in Germany considered “treason”. If Helmuth was alive, he would have been 89 years old. He was a Latter-Day Saint along with his mother and grandparents. Even though he was young, his interest in what was happening around him in Germany caught his interest. He listened to a short wave radio that was informing about the real situation happening in his country and Helmuth decided to do something about it. Along with a few LDS friends, he started creating and distributing pamphlets with the same news he would hear from the BBC. It was strictly prohibited to do such thing. At first, he was able to get away with it but when he decided to expand his efforts and needed to make a few translations, he was caught by a Nazy party member, sent to trial and condemned to death at the tender age of 17. All the requests for clemency were denied. He was sent to prison with all his civil rights taken away from him, being mistreated, tortured, having no bed, no sheets and no proper food. He was also beaten often. As I type this, there are few times that I need to stop because I am overwhelmed by emotion. I ponder about Helmuth and try to imagine how it must have been for him. As a mother, I try my best to teach my children to stand for what is right, even if it is not the popular thing to do and here we have a young man doing exactly that and being punished in the harshest way possible for trying to defeat a regime that ended up killing more than six million people. How lonely he must have felt in that prison cell..and when you think there is nothing else that can go wrong, two days after he was arrested, his Branch President who was an avid Nazi Party member excommunicated him. Four years after his death, he was posthumously reinstated as a member of the Church with the adding clarification that it was done by mistake since the Branch President did not have the authority from the district president to do so. How many people in the world have broken laws..written and unwritten in order to do what was right..or: Was Oskar and Emily Schindler wrong in saving 1,200 people from being killed by Nazy Germany? Was Rosa Parks wrong for standing for what was right? What about the thousands of people who fought for the Civil Rights movement? What about the thousands who fought against the Apartheid? What about Malala Yousafzai fighting the Taliban so that girls and women can get an education? And the list goes on... I know Helmuth’s fight wasn’t in vain and as he said, the Lord is our Judge and he will make things right. Even though his LDS friends were not executed, they suffered starvation and torture for a few years in German camps. The same day Helmuth was executed, the Nazis forced him to drink wine and even at his darkest hour.. this courageous young man was sad and disappointed...not at the fact that he was about to die because he knew very well his fate but at the fact that he had to break the Word of Wisdom.

Thanks to the internet and people speaking up more and sharing their experiences, I believe we are becoming more aware and knowledgeable about mental illness. It is no longer a taboo topic and people does not have to suffer in silence any longer. People seem to accept more the fact that it is a real condition (and not an invention from pseudo-psychologists) and because of that, when we hear about someone committing suicide, a lot of people no longer start with the speech of: "They are going to hell".

Sad to hear about his death, too. He was in and out of rehab for a long time and the depression was too much for his little heart and soul. Behind that amazing smile and laugh, there was a lot of sadness...

When I read the title of this thread, I thought it said "Talk to me about feces" and I was like "Why Backroads wants to talk about THAT!?".

I think sometimes a few members manipulate this system, I am sure the mods have seen this. Not everyone knows the art of how to debate. Sometimes a particular thread seems to be about "I am right, I am right and I will fight every single word you say because yeah, I am right" so to speak. It is hard to debate if the conversation turns personal, I don't know. I like to exchange views, ask questions, provide quotes, scriptures in order to support a point of view. I always use JAG as an example because we disagree in a lot of issues and we have debated in the past and yet exchanged views, learned things and enjoyed the discussion (at least on my part, hope it is the same with JAG) but sometimes what I observe is that someone perhaps do not have backup information to support their point of view and instead of just saying so (which is normal and acceptable imo) they get personal out of frustration with the intent to get the thread closed. It is a pity when that happen, one because I think it is a very silly thing to do and second because it is unfair to the other people who wanted to participate in the thread minus the drama. Lastly, I don't know, I believe asking questions is very important when we are unsure what someone meant instead of assuming people's intentions.

Quichey, as you can see everyone has a different take about what would qualified for a divorce in their own personal lives. It does NOT have to apply to your life. Whatever decision you take, it has to be done with a lot of prayer and fasting, analyzing the situation and issues you deal with your husband, not someone else's husband or wife and their lives and what *they* went through and what *they* think it should be done and mostly and what *they* chose to do. Everyone is different and even though, most of us here claim to be LDS, this is an online site and we are just a bunch of strangers. I am not saying to discard everything you have read here, but keep things into perspective...you do not know any of us, we are all just sharing personal opinions and experiences and if you choose to do something different, doesn't make you a bad or a horrible person because in the end, none of us are going to live your life and what might have been good for a couple, it does not have to be good for yours. All the best!

At that age (10) children are very impressionable. I believe that receiving the card from her teacher made her feel special and wanted and she changed her mind about homeschooling, it is normal.

Church leaders are also men, including the Prophet which also means they are product of their time, beliefs and culture. Brigham Young said some horrible things about black people but we are judging him through the eyes of our modern-day understanding of race. He was a 19th century old man with all the typical beliefs of a person during that time. About the other quotes (and there are certainly quite a few) it is my opinion that no one is immune from prejudice and bigotry.

*cough cough* the Church history board needs some discussion. :)

What I started doing is putting the ignore feature to good use. I don't put someone on "ignore" just because...it takes me a while but when I no longer enjoy reading their posts or debate (usually if the discussion has become too contentious/personal or emotional) I do it, for my sanity and theirs.

I understand. It is a pity.

I understand Pam, thanks. Perhaps I am a bit of a extremist. If a member is given warnings numerous times and they choose to ignore it, then some sort of "suspension" should take place, I don't know..a few days without posting or something like that until they rectify their attitude.

Anatess, this is an example of what I am talking about. Who is bashing the mods? Talking openly about the issues that are affecting the activity of the site isn't bashing the mods, we are all adults here and as long as we are being respectful towards one another, I don't see what is the problem..and mostly why do you want to "vote" to close a thread. If anyone feels they do not want to participate on this thread, it is their right but so far, it is not breaking any rules.

If they say the attack them first, can't someone check over the posts and see? If they are saying they are taking it in the wrong way, can't they be told to explain what they meant and resolve the issue calmly? Or is it an issue of time as well for the mods? I am not mourning any of the usual trouble-makers lol but I miss a few because of their unique perspective.

I miss their posts too and the recipes and food tips!

And what makes you think I am saying that? You manage this site Pam, how can it be that in a forum mods are ignored? That's unheard of.That's a total lack of disrespect for the site and the moderation team and if mods are to be respected and not ignored, then perhaps the approach from the moderation team towards these issues should be more stern (if the member/s continue ignoring the warning). Now, if you tell me you guys do not want to give "a time out" but rather keep a member who continue being disrespectful towards other members and ignoring the mods, then that's another story altogether. Again, your site, your rules, your vision.

Over-moderation or too many rules? Personally, I believe it is not a problem with over-moderation at least not with regards to posters but yes with threads. There are members who attack and are plain mean and unfortunately ruin the experience for the rest, that's where I think perhaps the mods should step in and deal with the particular member/s in question rather than close a good thread but like I always say, not our site, not our rules.

What?? I am reallyyy confused now lol, what are you talking about?

Hahaha. Nah, I only have two or three people blocked. I miss Wingnut, Lakumi, Bini, Jennamarie,,my buddy MOE!..etc..They post but not as frequent.

Is it me or the forum isn't as active as before? I recall when I used to come and see a whole lot of new threads and lots of replies but now it seems like only very few people are posting. What is happening? Everyone is busy all of the sudden?

Normal or common? Pornography is very common and religious people are not the exception. Some years ago I believe Deseret News published an article about Utah ranking Number 1 in online pornography subscriptions at higher rates than the rest of the US. Not everyone is "Mormon" in Utah but we can safely say there is a big percentage.

Are you talking generally or you are talking about Church members?

A struggle doesn't necessarily mean an addiction but can surely lead to it or the term is being used to describe addiction. We do not know until the OP explains more. Having said that, it is equally dangerous. Perhaps the key differences is that when it becomes a habit, the person seems to be in control of when to stop. When we talk about addiction, we are talking about someone unable to control it, and becomes totally dependent on it to cope with daily life.