Suzie

I am not sure if I agree with that Eowyn. I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with doubt neither necessarily the beginning of abandonment of our faith. I think doubt helps us grow.

I know your post is to MOE but what quote are you referring to?

I believe there are doubts and there are Doubts. It is not uncommon for someone to read a scripture or hear a story and have doubts about the veracity of it. I can think of many instances in my life where I felt like that. But then you have Doubts, with capital D. The kind of Doubt that makes you think about your whole existence and purpose on this planet, the one that makes you wonder about God, who is he and what the heck is he doing, the one that has a deeper, serious meaning. Many times, due to unexpected life circumstances, you are faced with the second one without seeking it. You either have the choice to continue believing (even though perhaps you have no good reason to do so) or abandon the faith. Sometimes the pain is too much for someone to bear and they decide to abandon their belief. I am very careful about labeling anyone and bothers me when others who did not go through the same challenges these people faced see them and they sit down and point fingers labeling them as weak and lacking faith. I see them as brothers and sisters who couldn't bear the pain any longer. The other group, decides to press on, decides to believe even if they don't see why or understand why and they continue having Doubts but they are determined to seek truth, to find it. Many times the journey takes a lifetime.

Some do, and they still financially poor.

There is one more (generally speaking), that because they are righteous, they are leaders and because they are righteous, God blessed them with a lot of material wealth. What about the poor righteous I don't know. lol

You do not need any sort of evidence to seek counseling and the help for your Bishop and I am not talking only about marriage counseling but counseling for yourself. It will not stir up more trouble but it's very possible that things will come out to light. You mentioned your marriage have gone well except your wife's behavior in recent years with partying, etc but let me say that perhaps that's the impression you had..things do not change overnight and no married person decides to party and turn "wild" all of the sudden. There have been issues and perhaps warning signs that needed attention. When there is distrust in a marriage and the issue isn't solved, it doesn't go away by magic. But quite the opposite, things get worse. You will start feeling like you are losing your mind, become very angry and resentful towards your spouse and you will start doing whatever it takes to see if she is indeed cheating on you (including inappropriate behavior such as checking her phone, emails, following her, etc if you haven't done that already). No marriage should reach that point. She needs to come out clean but making her feel that you are checking her every move will not make her open up to you. I suggest that you seek the help of a professional therapist ASAP that can help you deal with this difficult situation as well as marriage counseling.

What about this? http://www.joepuente.com/lds/heavenfr.htm

I answered you in your other thread but is this what you are looking for? http://www.amazon.com/Flipcharts-Uniform-System-Teaching-Gospel/dp/B002V8S4RA/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top/177-4763299-4977151

Let me add another point for discussion. What about when Church leaders counseled you not to serve a full time mission? Should you listen to them and do as they counseled you? (I am interested specially in the reply of those who strongly believe we should follow the counsel of our leaders at all times). The example that comes to my mind about this particular scenario are the Osmonds. According to Donny, they were counseled by family and Church leaders to continue performing and living their religion rather than going to a full time mission. http://donny.com/my_beliefs/did-you-ever-serve-a-mission-and-were-you-born-in-the-church-2/ Now, don't get me wrong, I am not picking on the Osmonds. They were so popular all over the world that probably serving a mission would have become a distraction for everyone around them but I am also thinking that we tend to worry so much about going to a mission than trying our best to be missionaries, wherever we are.

It is funny you mention that because that's exactly what is happening. My problem is that besides work, I live an extremely, extremely and extremely stressful life (due to my children's health issues) and I need a few laughs and some positivity to help me cope. Being surrounded by someone who insist in being negative every single day is too much for me.

I apologize if my little joke caused all this. I was just playing around, did not mean to offend/hurt anyone.

Hey anatess, wait...wait... wait...let me explain here. 1. I was laughing at this comment he made about himself: TFP likes to debate and we don't agree with a lot of things and yeah yeah yeah he likes to be right and fights a point to the end, but you do that too and I do it as well and heck a lot of people here, I don't see anything wrong with that as long as it doesn't get personal. He was making fun of himself and I just took the chance to do the same. And then I replied: I said that because I couldn't think of ANY good reason why someone would spend 50K in a watch! Hence my shocking face when you provided the list and my subsequent comment about "mental gymnastics". Anyways, I don't like when people get offended So, please group hug...

No offense peeps, but a lot of mental gymnastics going on here. lol Although I agree, they can do whatever they want with their money.

I did laugh. lol and let's face it, she will give you a whole list and you will "kill" each one of her points. lol

No medication, we talk a lot about family life and she seems okay. What I figured out over the years is that her personality did not change but she "pretended" in the past, and even now when she is under a lot of stress, she would laugh or smile, etc and those around her would think she is being funny, but she isn't...she is feeling very angry inside.

Like?

LOL!! TMI for my LDS ears ....but wait...Mormons have plenty children.

There is this lady at work. I would call her "Anne". When I first met her a few years ago, she was a very positive and vibrant person and I enjoyed talking with her, etc but as the years passed, she became someone who I would describe as "negative" about the job, criticizing everything and everyone and gossiping a lot and just being plain miserable. I get it, it is not an easy environment, it is quite stressful but talking in such a negative way all the time, does not help either. So I started backing off a bit after trying several times to talk with her, help her deal with it but she would continue and become very sensitive about the issue. Some time ago, she came to talk with me and asked me if I was angry with her and I said no and then she said she noticed I am not the same with her. I kindly explained and told her that it makes me uncomfortable when she talks about other people like that and that I don't like it (as I told her many times in the past). She started crying and I felt really bad because I did not want to hurt her feelings. But the next day, everything was back to normal (being negative, gossiping, etc) The whole situation is making me irritated.

Mission?

Wait...let me ask you directly...to understand you better: Do you think it is okay for a couple who is unable to meet their basic needs to pursue marriage knowing their financial situation? (Not enough money to cover basic things such as food, shelter and clothing)

Wait. I thought it was a typo.

Is it me or we all agree somehow? but then we don't.

I am confused now. The running water is just an example Anatess. I am saying if you cannot meet the basic needs of a family (and we already defined what those basic needs are) then you should be thinking about how to do so before you get married.