spamlds

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  1. Like
    spamlds got a reaction from Anddenex in Ying and Yang   
    I always understood Yin and Yang as simply a symbol of duality--what we think of as "opposition in all things." Agency and perception depend on duality. If we don't have the contrast, choices don't exist. The two abide together in one. Without agency and opposition, there is no existence.
  2. Like
    spamlds got a reaction from Anddenex in Prophetic fallibility/infallibility   
    Call me superstitious, but prophets are "big medicine," to put it in Native American parlance. God stands by them in remarkable ways. Miriam, Moses' sister got stricken with leprosy for criticizing him. Dathan, Korah, and Abiram got swallowed up in the earth for challenging Moses' authority. A bunch of children mocked Elijah and 23 of them were eaten by a she bear. Ananias and Saphira lied to Peter about their donations and were struck dead. Korihor defied Alma and was struck dumb. Jacob Haun disregarded Joseph's warning to move the saint at Haun's Mill and a bunch of saints died. I want to honor God's messengers and stick as close to their teachings as I can get. That's the safest path through this life.
  3. Like
    spamlds got a reaction from Anddenex in Prophetic fallibility/infallibility   
    I was talking to my wife about this topic. Anti-Mormons try to set up a false dichotomy. Would we follow the Prophet or would we follow the Bible? My sweetheart always has a way of succinctly getting to the point. She said, "Would you obey Noah and get on the ark or would you argue with him because God didn't say anything to you?" That's a good way to approach it. Modern sectarians would stand there with previously given scripture in hand and argue with Noah, telling him that they couldn't find anything about building an ark or a flood before it came. Indeed, if they followed today's pattern, they would try to stop the ark's construction via the zoning board saying that it was too tall, had inadequate parking, disrupted traffic, and harmed the residential character of the neighborhood.
  4. Like
    spamlds got a reaction from theSQUIDSTER in Prophetic fallibility/infallibility   
    I was talking to my wife about this topic. Anti-Mormons try to set up a false dichotomy. Would we follow the Prophet or would we follow the Bible? My sweetheart always has a way of succinctly getting to the point. She said, "Would you obey Noah and get on the ark or would you argue with him because God didn't say anything to you?" That's a good way to approach it. Modern sectarians would stand there with previously given scripture in hand and argue with Noah, telling him that they couldn't find anything about building an ark or a flood before it came. Indeed, if they followed today's pattern, they would try to stop the ark's construction via the zoning board saying that it was too tall, had inadequate parking, disrupted traffic, and harmed the residential character of the neighborhood.
  5. Like
    spamlds got a reaction from Vort in Prophetic fallibility/infallibility   
    I was talking to my wife about this topic. Anti-Mormons try to set up a false dichotomy. Would we follow the Prophet or would we follow the Bible? My sweetheart always has a way of succinctly getting to the point. She said, "Would you obey Noah and get on the ark or would you argue with him because God didn't say anything to you?" That's a good way to approach it. Modern sectarians would stand there with previously given scripture in hand and argue with Noah, telling him that they couldn't find anything about building an ark or a flood before it came. Indeed, if they followed today's pattern, they would try to stop the ark's construction via the zoning board saying that it was too tall, had inadequate parking, disrupted traffic, and harmed the residential character of the neighborhood.
  6. Like
    spamlds got a reaction from Misshalfway in Prophetic fallibility/infallibility   
    Call me superstitious, but prophets are "big medicine," to put it in Native American parlance. God stands by them in remarkable ways. Miriam, Moses' sister got stricken with leprosy for criticizing him. Dathan, Korah, and Abiram got swallowed up in the earth for challenging Moses' authority. A bunch of children mocked Elijah and 23 of them were eaten by a she bear. Ananias and Saphira lied to Peter about their donations and were struck dead. Korihor defied Alma and was struck dumb. Jacob Haun disregarded Joseph's warning to move the saint at Haun's Mill and a bunch of saints died. I want to honor God's messengers and stick as close to their teachings as I can get. That's the safest path through this life.
  7. Like
    spamlds got a reaction from theSQUIDSTER in Prophetic fallibility/infallibility   
    Call me superstitious, but prophets are "big medicine," to put it in Native American parlance. God stands by them in remarkable ways. Miriam, Moses' sister got stricken with leprosy for criticizing him. Dathan, Korah, and Abiram got swallowed up in the earth for challenging Moses' authority. A bunch of children mocked Elijah and 23 of them were eaten by a she bear. Ananias and Saphira lied to Peter about their donations and were struck dead. Korihor defied Alma and was struck dumb. Jacob Haun disregarded Joseph's warning to move the saint at Haun's Mill and a bunch of saints died. I want to honor God's messengers and stick as close to their teachings as I can get. That's the safest path through this life.
  8. Like
    spamlds got a reaction from The Folk Prophet in Prophetic fallibility/infallibility   
    Call me superstitious, but prophets are "big medicine," to put it in Native American parlance. God stands by them in remarkable ways. Miriam, Moses' sister got stricken with leprosy for criticizing him. Dathan, Korah, and Abiram got swallowed up in the earth for challenging Moses' authority. A bunch of children mocked Elijah and 23 of them were eaten by a she bear. Ananias and Saphira lied to Peter about their donations and were struck dead. Korihor defied Alma and was struck dumb. Jacob Haun disregarded Joseph's warning to move the saint at Haun's Mill and a bunch of saints died. I want to honor God's messengers and stick as close to their teachings as I can get. That's the safest path through this life.
  9. Like
    spamlds reacted to Vort in Prophetic fallibility/infallibility   
    My observation is that those who decry the supposed practice of "prophetic infallibility" almost always want to deny or talk their way out of something important and meaningful. I have recently seen this canard hoisted in talking about homosexual "marriage" and women being "ordained" to the Priesthood.
     
    The whining about those silly old Mormons worshiping their prophets is almost always agenda-driven. When I hear such complaints, my guard immediately goes up even before I hear what they're whining about. It's a rare event, not one time in ten, when the thing the complainers are really complaining about has any merit at all.
  10. Like
    spamlds got a reaction from The Folk Prophet in Recent discussion with on anti-Mormon website...and painful comments.   
    I studied anti-Mormon activity for about four years, cataloged their activities, documented the networks of relationships between anti-Mormon ministries, and categorized their tactics.  I can say with a great deal of experience, that anti-Mormon web sites are dangerous, dishonest, and ill-intended.  There isn't an original thought on any of them.  All of them are using doctrinal, logical, or historical arguments which have long been discredited.  They prey on the ignorant and the uninformed.  They present their arguments in such a way that it is impossible to have a reasonable discussion.  When you begin to answer one argument, they will pivot to a different topic.  They are not interested in truth at all.  If they can damage a person's faith or implant the seeds of doubt with a 140-character tweet, they believe that is worth more than a 10,000-word study of the topic using scripture and reason.
     
    Let me relate a couple of findings I encountered in my research. Although I did write some "defense of the faith" articles, my primary interest was understanding how anti-Mormonism works as a phenomenon.  I found that there is no integrity among them.  For example, I discovered one anti-Mormon ministry supposedly based in Africa was actually run by a well-known anti-Mormon "ministry" in Arizona.  They registered the address of the site to an Internet service provider in Canada to try to hide the connection.  This supposed African ex-Mormon ministry was run by a couple of white guys in America.  They were pretty hostile when I exposed that. 
     
    One of my studies of another anti-Mormon web site revealed that it was run by a woman who claimed to have a Master's degree in theology.  I researched her educational credentials and proved they were from a degree mill without accreditation. (That is the case with many anti-Mormons.)  When I exposed the facts about her education, she linked up with a vicious ex-Mormon-turned-atheist on another anti-Mormon forum I monitored to share notes on how to best attack the Church.  Imagine that: an evangelical teaming up with a person who denies God's very existence to figure out the best way to attack Mormonism!  What fellowship does light have with darkness?
     
    Another of the newer anti-Mormon ministries online was revealed to be soliciting donations, but it was in fact a for-profit business.  It did not have a current business licence.  It was not a legal non-profit or charity.  It was operating off an expired incorporation application with its home state.  In essence, it was an unlicensed business selling books for a profit and soliciting donations without meeting the proper state and federal tax requirements.
     
    There are over 800 such ministries and parachurches that publish and re-publish the anti-Mormon lies.  Many of them are for-profit companies.  When you get to see the links between them and how they operate, you come to see that they are intentionally deceptive and insidious.  They intentionally misguide people who are uneducated in the tenets of their own faith and incite prejudice against our faith.  It's a shame they have the influence they do.
     
    Stay away from these web sites.  They are nothing but cut-and-paste factories for lies and misrepresentations.  There is nothing honest, praiseworthy, or of good report in any of them.
  11. Like
    spamlds got a reaction from Jane_Doe in Recent discussion with on anti-Mormon website...and painful comments.   
    I studied anti-Mormon activity for about four years, cataloged their activities, documented the networks of relationships between anti-Mormon ministries, and categorized their tactics.  I can say with a great deal of experience, that anti-Mormon web sites are dangerous, dishonest, and ill-intended.  There isn't an original thought on any of them.  All of them are using doctrinal, logical, or historical arguments which have long been discredited.  They prey on the ignorant and the uninformed.  They present their arguments in such a way that it is impossible to have a reasonable discussion.  When you begin to answer one argument, they will pivot to a different topic.  They are not interested in truth at all.  If they can damage a person's faith or implant the seeds of doubt with a 140-character tweet, they believe that is worth more than a 10,000-word study of the topic using scripture and reason.
     
    Let me relate a couple of findings I encountered in my research. Although I did write some "defense of the faith" articles, my primary interest was understanding how anti-Mormonism works as a phenomenon.  I found that there is no integrity among them.  For example, I discovered one anti-Mormon ministry supposedly based in Africa was actually run by a well-known anti-Mormon "ministry" in Arizona.  They registered the address of the site to an Internet service provider in Canada to try to hide the connection.  This supposed African ex-Mormon ministry was run by a couple of white guys in America.  They were pretty hostile when I exposed that. 
     
    One of my studies of another anti-Mormon web site revealed that it was run by a woman who claimed to have a Master's degree in theology.  I researched her educational credentials and proved they were from a degree mill without accreditation. (That is the case with many anti-Mormons.)  When I exposed the facts about her education, she linked up with a vicious ex-Mormon-turned-atheist on another anti-Mormon forum I monitored to share notes on how to best attack the Church.  Imagine that: an evangelical teaming up with a person who denies God's very existence to figure out the best way to attack Mormonism!  What fellowship does light have with darkness?
     
    Another of the newer anti-Mormon ministries online was revealed to be soliciting donations, but it was in fact a for-profit business.  It did not have a current business licence.  It was not a legal non-profit or charity.  It was operating off an expired incorporation application with its home state.  In essence, it was an unlicensed business selling books for a profit and soliciting donations without meeting the proper state and federal tax requirements.
     
    There are over 800 such ministries and parachurches that publish and re-publish the anti-Mormon lies.  Many of them are for-profit companies.  When you get to see the links between them and how they operate, you come to see that they are intentionally deceptive and insidious.  They intentionally misguide people who are uneducated in the tenets of their own faith and incite prejudice against our faith.  It's a shame they have the influence they do.
     
    Stay away from these web sites.  They are nothing but cut-and-paste factories for lies and misrepresentations.  There is nothing honest, praiseworthy, or of good report in any of them.
  12. Like
    spamlds got a reaction from Vort in Recent discussion with on anti-Mormon website...and painful comments.   
    I studied anti-Mormon activity for about four years, cataloged their activities, documented the networks of relationships between anti-Mormon ministries, and categorized their tactics.  I can say with a great deal of experience, that anti-Mormon web sites are dangerous, dishonest, and ill-intended.  There isn't an original thought on any of them.  All of them are using doctrinal, logical, or historical arguments which have long been discredited.  They prey on the ignorant and the uninformed.  They present their arguments in such a way that it is impossible to have a reasonable discussion.  When you begin to answer one argument, they will pivot to a different topic.  They are not interested in truth at all.  If they can damage a person's faith or implant the seeds of doubt with a 140-character tweet, they believe that is worth more than a 10,000-word study of the topic using scripture and reason.
     
    Let me relate a couple of findings I encountered in my research. Although I did write some "defense of the faith" articles, my primary interest was understanding how anti-Mormonism works as a phenomenon.  I found that there is no integrity among them.  For example, I discovered one anti-Mormon ministry supposedly based in Africa was actually run by a well-known anti-Mormon "ministry" in Arizona.  They registered the address of the site to an Internet service provider in Canada to try to hide the connection.  This supposed African ex-Mormon ministry was run by a couple of white guys in America.  They were pretty hostile when I exposed that. 
     
    One of my studies of another anti-Mormon web site revealed that it was run by a woman who claimed to have a Master's degree in theology.  I researched her educational credentials and proved they were from a degree mill without accreditation. (That is the case with many anti-Mormons.)  When I exposed the facts about her education, she linked up with a vicious ex-Mormon-turned-atheist on another anti-Mormon forum I monitored to share notes on how to best attack the Church.  Imagine that: an evangelical teaming up with a person who denies God's very existence to figure out the best way to attack Mormonism!  What fellowship does light have with darkness?
     
    Another of the newer anti-Mormon ministries online was revealed to be soliciting donations, but it was in fact a for-profit business.  It did not have a current business licence.  It was not a legal non-profit or charity.  It was operating off an expired incorporation application with its home state.  In essence, it was an unlicensed business selling books for a profit and soliciting donations without meeting the proper state and federal tax requirements.
     
    There are over 800 such ministries and parachurches that publish and re-publish the anti-Mormon lies.  Many of them are for-profit companies.  When you get to see the links between them and how they operate, you come to see that they are intentionally deceptive and insidious.  They intentionally misguide people who are uneducated in the tenets of their own faith and incite prejudice against our faith.  It's a shame they have the influence they do.
     
    Stay away from these web sites.  They are nothing but cut-and-paste factories for lies and misrepresentations.  There is nothing honest, praiseworthy, or of good report in any of them.
  13. Like
    spamlds got a reaction from theSQUIDSTER in Do you ever wonder about the Christmas shepherds?   
    I'm tossing out there as a lighthearted topic, not for heavy doctrinal analysis.  It's just something I like to ponder sometimes.
     
    When we read the scriptures, there are also stories and testimonies of real, average people who weren't prophets or apostles.  For example, Luke's narrative of the Nativity tells us about the shepherds who were abiding in the fields with their flocks.  They saw the heavenly manifestation of the angels and received the sign of the newborn King lying in a manger in swaddling clothes.  They went to go see it and somehow the story came down to Luke, who included it in his gospel.
     
    I always wonder who they were and why they were selected for this manifestation?  Perhaps they were Luke's relatives or someone in his family.  Did they eventually join the Church when Jesus grew up, connecting the dots to this experience and the story came to Luke.  Perhaps Mary told him of it, because he relates things that only she would have seen or known. 
     
    Anyways, I sometimes like to ponder that God gave this merciful manifestation to some plain old people who weren't kings, priests, prophets.  Kinda cool.
  14. Like
    spamlds got a reaction from Anddenex in Shaken Faith Syndrome - What brings it on   
    When I was running the Society for the Prevention of Anti-Mormonism, I was particularly interested in documenting the process by which a faithful member of the Church turns into an anti-Mormon apostate.  There are people who drift away from the Church because of depression, unworthiness, discouragement, worldliness, or because life's trials overwhelm them, just as Jesus described in the Parable of the Sower.
     
    However, there is a peculiar process that I documented whereby many exMormons fall away and try to take others with them.  Like Prisonchaplain said, it begins in college for many of them.  A very typical case was a guy who joined the S.P.A.M. social network back around 2009 who went by the screen name "Ishmael."  Ishmael wrote on our site:
     
    "Fast forward a few years. I'm home from my mission, I've graduated from BYU, I'm married with a couple of kids. I'm a little battle-worn, some of my illusions about the mission, BYU, and the Church itself have been shattered, but that's all part of growing up. My testimony is still strong. I probably don't need to tell you that it wasn't long before I was delving in the world of online Mormonism and anti-Mormonism."
     
    Ishmael became a sort of case study because he evinced a pattern that showed up over and over.  He had some illusions about his faith that were challenged and didn't hold up.  Instead of praying and studying for further understanding and truth to correct his errors, he begins to let go of the iron rod.  He allows men to instruct him instead of the Holy Spirit.
     
    You have to realize that, when S.P.A.M. was functioning, it became a target of anti-Mormons.  Many former members joined us with the intent of either trying to shake us in our faith or justifying their own apostasy.  Ishmael was one of them.  When you give these guys a chance to tell their story, they start "monologuing" and it always falls into this pattern.
     
    1. Establish rapport
    2. Establish credibility
    3. Build sympathy
    4. Tell of an "awakening"
    5. Rationalize the loss of commitment, disobedience, etc.
    6. Reveal the deception that snared them
    7. Issue either a disclaimer that excuses them or a hateful rant that vindicates their choice to leave, blaming others.
     
    Very often, these former members seek out those who are struggling and try to take them down with them.  You have to understand that there are people who are active "wolves" who are seeking to prey on the flock.  When an innocent person who might be struggling with some doubts encounters one of these apostates, they are unaware that there is a careful, manipulative process being worked against them.  
     
    What amazed me is how consistent this pattern was.  I had to wonder if the consistency of it was because of the adversary's influence over them or whether it was rehearsed.  
     
    If you want to read the whole article called, Ishmael's Monologue, check it out on the S.P.A.M. archives at:
     
    http://spamldsarchive.blogspot.com/2010/05/ishmael-monologue.html
     
    It's not my intent to "pimp" my old blog, but I think it's an important aspect of understanding "shaken faith syndrome."  There are over 800 anti-Mormon parachurches and ministries out there.  They publish web sites, videos, and distribute their products (often for a profit) through Christian bookstores and pastors of other denominations.  There are also atheists who are dedicated to undermining all faith and they seem to take a special interest in destroying the faith of people who claim belief in modern revelation.  When you realize that the opposition is active, it takes on a whole new dimension.
  15. Like
    spamlds got a reaction from classylady in Shaken Faith Syndrome - What brings it on   
    When I was running the Society for the Prevention of Anti-Mormonism, I was particularly interested in documenting the process by which a faithful member of the Church turns into an anti-Mormon apostate.  There are people who drift away from the Church because of depression, unworthiness, discouragement, worldliness, or because life's trials overwhelm them, just as Jesus described in the Parable of the Sower.
     
    However, there is a peculiar process that I documented whereby many exMormons fall away and try to take others with them.  Like Prisonchaplain said, it begins in college for many of them.  A very typical case was a guy who joined the S.P.A.M. social network back around 2009 who went by the screen name "Ishmael."  Ishmael wrote on our site:
     
    "Fast forward a few years. I'm home from my mission, I've graduated from BYU, I'm married with a couple of kids. I'm a little battle-worn, some of my illusions about the mission, BYU, and the Church itself have been shattered, but that's all part of growing up. My testimony is still strong. I probably don't need to tell you that it wasn't long before I was delving in the world of online Mormonism and anti-Mormonism."
     
    Ishmael became a sort of case study because he evinced a pattern that showed up over and over.  He had some illusions about his faith that were challenged and didn't hold up.  Instead of praying and studying for further understanding and truth to correct his errors, he begins to let go of the iron rod.  He allows men to instruct him instead of the Holy Spirit.
     
    You have to realize that, when S.P.A.M. was functioning, it became a target of anti-Mormons.  Many former members joined us with the intent of either trying to shake us in our faith or justifying their own apostasy.  Ishmael was one of them.  When you give these guys a chance to tell their story, they start "monologuing" and it always falls into this pattern.
     
    1. Establish rapport
    2. Establish credibility
    3. Build sympathy
    4. Tell of an "awakening"
    5. Rationalize the loss of commitment, disobedience, etc.
    6. Reveal the deception that snared them
    7. Issue either a disclaimer that excuses them or a hateful rant that vindicates their choice to leave, blaming others.
     
    Very often, these former members seek out those who are struggling and try to take them down with them.  You have to understand that there are people who are active "wolves" who are seeking to prey on the flock.  When an innocent person who might be struggling with some doubts encounters one of these apostates, they are unaware that there is a careful, manipulative process being worked against them.  
     
    What amazed me is how consistent this pattern was.  I had to wonder if the consistency of it was because of the adversary's influence over them or whether it was rehearsed.  
     
    If you want to read the whole article called, Ishmael's Monologue, check it out on the S.P.A.M. archives at:
     
    http://spamldsarchive.blogspot.com/2010/05/ishmael-monologue.html
     
    It's not my intent to "pimp" my old blog, but I think it's an important aspect of understanding "shaken faith syndrome."  There are over 800 anti-Mormon parachurches and ministries out there.  They publish web sites, videos, and distribute their products (often for a profit) through Christian bookstores and pastors of other denominations.  There are also atheists who are dedicated to undermining all faith and they seem to take a special interest in destroying the faith of people who claim belief in modern revelation.  When you realize that the opposition is active, it takes on a whole new dimension.
  16. Like
    spamlds got a reaction from theSQUIDSTER in Shaken Faith Syndrome - What brings it on   
    When I was running the Society for the Prevention of Anti-Mormonism, I was particularly interested in documenting the process by which a faithful member of the Church turns into an anti-Mormon apostate.  There are people who drift away from the Church because of depression, unworthiness, discouragement, worldliness, or because life's trials overwhelm them, just as Jesus described in the Parable of the Sower.
     
    However, there is a peculiar process that I documented whereby many exMormons fall away and try to take others with them.  Like Prisonchaplain said, it begins in college for many of them.  A very typical case was a guy who joined the S.P.A.M. social network back around 2009 who went by the screen name "Ishmael."  Ishmael wrote on our site:
     
    "Fast forward a few years. I'm home from my mission, I've graduated from BYU, I'm married with a couple of kids. I'm a little battle-worn, some of my illusions about the mission, BYU, and the Church itself have been shattered, but that's all part of growing up. My testimony is still strong. I probably don't need to tell you that it wasn't long before I was delving in the world of online Mormonism and anti-Mormonism."
     
    Ishmael became a sort of case study because he evinced a pattern that showed up over and over.  He had some illusions about his faith that were challenged and didn't hold up.  Instead of praying and studying for further understanding and truth to correct his errors, he begins to let go of the iron rod.  He allows men to instruct him instead of the Holy Spirit.
     
    You have to realize that, when S.P.A.M. was functioning, it became a target of anti-Mormons.  Many former members joined us with the intent of either trying to shake us in our faith or justifying their own apostasy.  Ishmael was one of them.  When you give these guys a chance to tell their story, they start "monologuing" and it always falls into this pattern.
     
    1. Establish rapport
    2. Establish credibility
    3. Build sympathy
    4. Tell of an "awakening"
    5. Rationalize the loss of commitment, disobedience, etc.
    6. Reveal the deception that snared them
    7. Issue either a disclaimer that excuses them or a hateful rant that vindicates their choice to leave, blaming others.
     
    Very often, these former members seek out those who are struggling and try to take them down with them.  You have to understand that there are people who are active "wolves" who are seeking to prey on the flock.  When an innocent person who might be struggling with some doubts encounters one of these apostates, they are unaware that there is a careful, manipulative process being worked against them.  
     
    What amazed me is how consistent this pattern was.  I had to wonder if the consistency of it was because of the adversary's influence over them or whether it was rehearsed.  
     
    If you want to read the whole article called, Ishmael's Monologue, check it out on the S.P.A.M. archives at:
     
    http://spamldsarchive.blogspot.com/2010/05/ishmael-monologue.html
     
    It's not my intent to "pimp" my old blog, but I think it's an important aspect of understanding "shaken faith syndrome."  There are over 800 anti-Mormon parachurches and ministries out there.  They publish web sites, videos, and distribute their products (often for a profit) through Christian bookstores and pastors of other denominations.  There are also atheists who are dedicated to undermining all faith and they seem to take a special interest in destroying the faith of people who claim belief in modern revelation.  When you realize that the opposition is active, it takes on a whole new dimension.
  17. Like
    spamlds got a reaction from Crypto in Shaken Faith Syndrome - What brings it on   
    When I was running the Society for the Prevention of Anti-Mormonism, I was particularly interested in documenting the process by which a faithful member of the Church turns into an anti-Mormon apostate.  There are people who drift away from the Church because of depression, unworthiness, discouragement, worldliness, or because life's trials overwhelm them, just as Jesus described in the Parable of the Sower.
     
    However, there is a peculiar process that I documented whereby many exMormons fall away and try to take others with them.  Like Prisonchaplain said, it begins in college for many of them.  A very typical case was a guy who joined the S.P.A.M. social network back around 2009 who went by the screen name "Ishmael."  Ishmael wrote on our site:
     
    "Fast forward a few years. I'm home from my mission, I've graduated from BYU, I'm married with a couple of kids. I'm a little battle-worn, some of my illusions about the mission, BYU, and the Church itself have been shattered, but that's all part of growing up. My testimony is still strong. I probably don't need to tell you that it wasn't long before I was delving in the world of online Mormonism and anti-Mormonism."
     
    Ishmael became a sort of case study because he evinced a pattern that showed up over and over.  He had some illusions about his faith that were challenged and didn't hold up.  Instead of praying and studying for further understanding and truth to correct his errors, he begins to let go of the iron rod.  He allows men to instruct him instead of the Holy Spirit.
     
    You have to realize that, when S.P.A.M. was functioning, it became a target of anti-Mormons.  Many former members joined us with the intent of either trying to shake us in our faith or justifying their own apostasy.  Ishmael was one of them.  When you give these guys a chance to tell their story, they start "monologuing" and it always falls into this pattern.
     
    1. Establish rapport
    2. Establish credibility
    3. Build sympathy
    4. Tell of an "awakening"
    5. Rationalize the loss of commitment, disobedience, etc.
    6. Reveal the deception that snared them
    7. Issue either a disclaimer that excuses them or a hateful rant that vindicates their choice to leave, blaming others.
     
    Very often, these former members seek out those who are struggling and try to take them down with them.  You have to understand that there are people who are active "wolves" who are seeking to prey on the flock.  When an innocent person who might be struggling with some doubts encounters one of these apostates, they are unaware that there is a careful, manipulative process being worked against them.  
     
    What amazed me is how consistent this pattern was.  I had to wonder if the consistency of it was because of the adversary's influence over them or whether it was rehearsed.  
     
    If you want to read the whole article called, Ishmael's Monologue, check it out on the S.P.A.M. archives at:
     
    http://spamldsarchive.blogspot.com/2010/05/ishmael-monologue.html
     
    It's not my intent to "pimp" my old blog, but I think it's an important aspect of understanding "shaken faith syndrome."  There are over 800 anti-Mormon parachurches and ministries out there.  They publish web sites, videos, and distribute their products (often for a profit) through Christian bookstores and pastors of other denominations.  There are also atheists who are dedicated to undermining all faith and they seem to take a special interest in destroying the faith of people who claim belief in modern revelation.  When you realize that the opposition is active, it takes on a whole new dimension.
  18. Like
    spamlds got a reaction from Vort in Shaken Faith Syndrome - What brings it on   
    When I was running the Society for the Prevention of Anti-Mormonism, I was particularly interested in documenting the process by which a faithful member of the Church turns into an anti-Mormon apostate.  There are people who drift away from the Church because of depression, unworthiness, discouragement, worldliness, or because life's trials overwhelm them, just as Jesus described in the Parable of the Sower.
     
    However, there is a peculiar process that I documented whereby many exMormons fall away and try to take others with them.  Like Prisonchaplain said, it begins in college for many of them.  A very typical case was a guy who joined the S.P.A.M. social network back around 2009 who went by the screen name "Ishmael."  Ishmael wrote on our site:
     
    "Fast forward a few years. I'm home from my mission, I've graduated from BYU, I'm married with a couple of kids. I'm a little battle-worn, some of my illusions about the mission, BYU, and the Church itself have been shattered, but that's all part of growing up. My testimony is still strong. I probably don't need to tell you that it wasn't long before I was delving in the world of online Mormonism and anti-Mormonism."
     
    Ishmael became a sort of case study because he evinced a pattern that showed up over and over.  He had some illusions about his faith that were challenged and didn't hold up.  Instead of praying and studying for further understanding and truth to correct his errors, he begins to let go of the iron rod.  He allows men to instruct him instead of the Holy Spirit.
     
    You have to realize that, when S.P.A.M. was functioning, it became a target of anti-Mormons.  Many former members joined us with the intent of either trying to shake us in our faith or justifying their own apostasy.  Ishmael was one of them.  When you give these guys a chance to tell their story, they start "monologuing" and it always falls into this pattern.
     
    1. Establish rapport
    2. Establish credibility
    3. Build sympathy
    4. Tell of an "awakening"
    5. Rationalize the loss of commitment, disobedience, etc.
    6. Reveal the deception that snared them
    7. Issue either a disclaimer that excuses them or a hateful rant that vindicates their choice to leave, blaming others.
     
    Very often, these former members seek out those who are struggling and try to take them down with them.  You have to understand that there are people who are active "wolves" who are seeking to prey on the flock.  When an innocent person who might be struggling with some doubts encounters one of these apostates, they are unaware that there is a careful, manipulative process being worked against them.  
     
    What amazed me is how consistent this pattern was.  I had to wonder if the consistency of it was because of the adversary's influence over them or whether it was rehearsed.  
     
    If you want to read the whole article called, Ishmael's Monologue, check it out on the S.P.A.M. archives at:
     
    http://spamldsarchive.blogspot.com/2010/05/ishmael-monologue.html
     
    It's not my intent to "pimp" my old blog, but I think it's an important aspect of understanding "shaken faith syndrome."  There are over 800 anti-Mormon parachurches and ministries out there.  They publish web sites, videos, and distribute their products (often for a profit) through Christian bookstores and pastors of other denominations.  There are also atheists who are dedicated to undermining all faith and they seem to take a special interest in destroying the faith of people who claim belief in modern revelation.  When you realize that the opposition is active, it takes on a whole new dimension.
  19. Like
    spamlds got a reaction from lagarthaaz in Shaken Faith Syndrome - What brings it on   
    When I was running the Society for the Prevention of Anti-Mormonism, I was particularly interested in documenting the process by which a faithful member of the Church turns into an anti-Mormon apostate.  There are people who drift away from the Church because of depression, unworthiness, discouragement, worldliness, or because life's trials overwhelm them, just as Jesus described in the Parable of the Sower.
     
    However, there is a peculiar process that I documented whereby many exMormons fall away and try to take others with them.  Like Prisonchaplain said, it begins in college for many of them.  A very typical case was a guy who joined the S.P.A.M. social network back around 2009 who went by the screen name "Ishmael."  Ishmael wrote on our site:
     
    "Fast forward a few years. I'm home from my mission, I've graduated from BYU, I'm married with a couple of kids. I'm a little battle-worn, some of my illusions about the mission, BYU, and the Church itself have been shattered, but that's all part of growing up. My testimony is still strong. I probably don't need to tell you that it wasn't long before I was delving in the world of online Mormonism and anti-Mormonism."
     
    Ishmael became a sort of case study because he evinced a pattern that showed up over and over.  He had some illusions about his faith that were challenged and didn't hold up.  Instead of praying and studying for further understanding and truth to correct his errors, he begins to let go of the iron rod.  He allows men to instruct him instead of the Holy Spirit.
     
    You have to realize that, when S.P.A.M. was functioning, it became a target of anti-Mormons.  Many former members joined us with the intent of either trying to shake us in our faith or justifying their own apostasy.  Ishmael was one of them.  When you give these guys a chance to tell their story, they start "monologuing" and it always falls into this pattern.
     
    1. Establish rapport
    2. Establish credibility
    3. Build sympathy
    4. Tell of an "awakening"
    5. Rationalize the loss of commitment, disobedience, etc.
    6. Reveal the deception that snared them
    7. Issue either a disclaimer that excuses them or a hateful rant that vindicates their choice to leave, blaming others.
     
    Very often, these former members seek out those who are struggling and try to take them down with them.  You have to understand that there are people who are active "wolves" who are seeking to prey on the flock.  When an innocent person who might be struggling with some doubts encounters one of these apostates, they are unaware that there is a careful, manipulative process being worked against them.  
     
    What amazed me is how consistent this pattern was.  I had to wonder if the consistency of it was because of the adversary's influence over them or whether it was rehearsed.  
     
    If you want to read the whole article called, Ishmael's Monologue, check it out on the S.P.A.M. archives at:
     
    http://spamldsarchive.blogspot.com/2010/05/ishmael-monologue.html
     
    It's not my intent to "pimp" my old blog, but I think it's an important aspect of understanding "shaken faith syndrome."  There are over 800 anti-Mormon parachurches and ministries out there.  They publish web sites, videos, and distribute their products (often for a profit) through Christian bookstores and pastors of other denominations.  There are also atheists who are dedicated to undermining all faith and they seem to take a special interest in destroying the faith of people who claim belief in modern revelation.  When you realize that the opposition is active, it takes on a whole new dimension.
  20. Like
    spamlds got a reaction from The Folk Prophet in Shaken Faith Syndrome - What brings it on   
    When I was running the Society for the Prevention of Anti-Mormonism, I was particularly interested in documenting the process by which a faithful member of the Church turns into an anti-Mormon apostate.  There are people who drift away from the Church because of depression, unworthiness, discouragement, worldliness, or because life's trials overwhelm them, just as Jesus described in the Parable of the Sower.
     
    However, there is a peculiar process that I documented whereby many exMormons fall away and try to take others with them.  Like Prisonchaplain said, it begins in college for many of them.  A very typical case was a guy who joined the S.P.A.M. social network back around 2009 who went by the screen name "Ishmael."  Ishmael wrote on our site:
     
    "Fast forward a few years. I'm home from my mission, I've graduated from BYU, I'm married with a couple of kids. I'm a little battle-worn, some of my illusions about the mission, BYU, and the Church itself have been shattered, but that's all part of growing up. My testimony is still strong. I probably don't need to tell you that it wasn't long before I was delving in the world of online Mormonism and anti-Mormonism."
     
    Ishmael became a sort of case study because he evinced a pattern that showed up over and over.  He had some illusions about his faith that were challenged and didn't hold up.  Instead of praying and studying for further understanding and truth to correct his errors, he begins to let go of the iron rod.  He allows men to instruct him instead of the Holy Spirit.
     
    You have to realize that, when S.P.A.M. was functioning, it became a target of anti-Mormons.  Many former members joined us with the intent of either trying to shake us in our faith or justifying their own apostasy.  Ishmael was one of them.  When you give these guys a chance to tell their story, they start "monologuing" and it always falls into this pattern.
     
    1. Establish rapport
    2. Establish credibility
    3. Build sympathy
    4. Tell of an "awakening"
    5. Rationalize the loss of commitment, disobedience, etc.
    6. Reveal the deception that snared them
    7. Issue either a disclaimer that excuses them or a hateful rant that vindicates their choice to leave, blaming others.
     
    Very often, these former members seek out those who are struggling and try to take them down with them.  You have to understand that there are people who are active "wolves" who are seeking to prey on the flock.  When an innocent person who might be struggling with some doubts encounters one of these apostates, they are unaware that there is a careful, manipulative process being worked against them.  
     
    What amazed me is how consistent this pattern was.  I had to wonder if the consistency of it was because of the adversary's influence over them or whether it was rehearsed.  
     
    If you want to read the whole article called, Ishmael's Monologue, check it out on the S.P.A.M. archives at:
     
    http://spamldsarchive.blogspot.com/2010/05/ishmael-monologue.html
     
    It's not my intent to "pimp" my old blog, but I think it's an important aspect of understanding "shaken faith syndrome."  There are over 800 anti-Mormon parachurches and ministries out there.  They publish web sites, videos, and distribute their products (often for a profit) through Christian bookstores and pastors of other denominations.  There are also atheists who are dedicated to undermining all faith and they seem to take a special interest in destroying the faith of people who claim belief in modern revelation.  When you realize that the opposition is active, it takes on a whole new dimension.
  21. Like
    spamlds got a reaction from Blackmarch in Native American tragedies   
    If you want to read an excellent book about Native American religion, read "The Soul of the Indian" by Charles Eastman (Ohiyesa).  Eastman's father sent him off to the white boarding schools and told him to master the whites' language and become educated so he could tell them what they were destroying.  It was his way of being a warrior, to become learned in the white way and then teach the Indian way.  Eastman became a medical doctor and was a "first responder" at the Wounded Knee massacre.  
     
    It is also an interesting study for LDS people to study the first and second "Ghost Dance" movements among native Americans.  The Paiute Prophet Wovoka taught that the Ghost Dance would unite the spirits of the living and the dead and help bring cooperation and peace between the whites and the First Peoples.  
     
    Another really interesting parallel is the brother of Tecumseh, the Shawnee Prophet Tenskwatawa.  He was nearly destroyed by alcohol and, following an accident where he fell drunk into a fire, he lay in a coma for several days and then emerged "Alma-like" and began to teach the people of a vision he had.  He began to call the people to repent, to forsake drinking, and to return to their traditional ways.  He said that the Great Spirit was preparing to restore them and their land.
     
    This paralleled the Restoration to some extent.  His vision occurred in 1805, the year Joseph Smith was born.  He died in 1836, the year the Kirtland Temple was dedicated.  There is a sort of synchronicity in the message of the Shawnee Prophet and the Prophet of the Restoration--both men received messages telling them and their followers to forsake the false, sectarian Christianity of their time and to return to something revealed and fundamental.  The reaction of the white Christian Americans was to try to destroy both messengers.  If Tecumseh and his brother had been successful, they might have stopped Manifest Destiny in its tracks.  If Wovoka's message had not been so badly misrepresented, Native Americans and European Americans might have established some sort of equilibrium that would have resolved in a more positive way.  
     
    Personally, I think the Spirit of God was working on many fronts in the 19th century to prepare the way for the fulfilling of the promises made to Lehi's posterity.  Although early Mormon converts brought some of their prejudices about Native Americans westward with them, the teachings about the Lamanites and the promises made to them in the Book of Mormon moderated our approach somewhat.  I would recommend reading Eastman as a start of your studies, if you haven't already read his books.
  22. Like
    spamlds got a reaction from Blackmarch in If you were not LDS what religion would you be?   
    The answers to this question are interesting.  I'm a convert to the Church.  I was a dedicated seeker of truth all through my high school years and into early adulthood.  I read everything I could get my hands on about religion--all religion.  I was all about finding what I called "Truth with a capital 'T'" and I wouldn't settle for anything less.
     
    I first felt stirrings of faith when I was a young boy, about age 10.  I responded to an altar call after hearing a powerful Baptist preacher warn that, if you didn't believe in Jesus, you'd burn in hell forever.  As a 10-year old, that was too scary to consider.  An altar call is when the penitent who want to be saved go up to the front of the church and the preacher or deacons pray the "Sinner's Prayer" with you.  After a while, I came to understand that my actions were motivated out of fear, not faith in Christ.  Hellfire is an effective way to scare people into being "saved."  Of course, nothing else was to be expected after that and I eventually drifted away.
     
    In my high school years, I attended Methodist services with some friends because they had a big, active youth group.  It was there that I had my first experiences with what I now recognize as the Holy Spirit.  On one occasion, I felt that sense of warmth and tenderness while taking the communion (sacrament).  Another time, the minister had us re-enact the washing of feet that Jesus did for his apostles.  Actually, we didn't wash feet, but we washed one another's hands.  It was a very spiritual thing.  I regard those moments today as steps that were guided by the light of Christ to lead me to a greater light.
     
    I drifted away from Christianity for a time and explored Hinduism and Buddhism and I found great comfort and truth in those religions as well.  Nevertheless, my desire for truth led me to discontinue those explorations and press onward.  It was not until I encountered the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints that I found that "Truth with a capital 'T" in my life.  It was the revelation of the Holy Ghost to me and the continuing blessings of personal revelation that has kept me active in the Church for the past 35 years, through good times and hard times. 
     
    If there was no true Church on the earth, I would still be a seeker, unaffiliated with any sect or denomination.  I would shudder to think that I would ever settle for the doctrines of men mingled with scripture for any length of time, much less commit myself to them.
  23. Like
    spamlds got a reaction from Blackmarch in Carl Sagan's 'Cosmos'   
    Reading Carl Sagan's novel "Contact" seemed to be an interesting admission of sorts.  If you saw the movie, it didn't exactly reflect what was in the book.  In the movie (spoiler alert!) the agnostic scientist goes out into the universe in an alien-designed/human-built spacecraft and meets with the aliens, who appear to her as her own father.  When she returns after 18 or so hours, she finds that the observers didn't see and experience what she did.  All they saw was the vehicle falling into the water after a few seconds. 
     
    She had seen and experienced an amazing thing that she could not prove.  All she could do is testify of it without the benefit of evidence--but what she saw was real.  The only "evidence" that remained was 18 hours of static on the head-mounted video camera. 
     
    In the book (if I recall it correctly), it was a dozen scientists, not just one--12 witnesses.  To me it was an admission about the ancient 12 apostles.  They had seen (with the exception of Judas) amazing things that they could not prove.  It seemed to me that Sagan was admitting that it was possible for them to see what they did and that, even thought there was no physical, tangible proof that everyone could see and touch, their experience was nevertheless true.  In his final years, Sagan seemed to, in that book, leave the possibility open that he and his fellow scientists could have been wrong to dismiss what they couldn't measure through empirical means.
  24. Like
    spamlds got a reaction from Windseeker in Two new essays from Gospel Topics Essays   
    From 2007 to 2012, I wrote literally hundreds of articles for the Society for the Prevention of Anti-Mormonism blog and for the Examiner which address anti-Mormon attacks on the Church.  I am gratified to see that the Church has taken upon itself the burden of handling these topics.  It does it with greater clarity and authority than any apologetics writer. 
     
    It has always seemed to me that every president of the Church has a "theme" that becomes his trademark, like "every member a missionary" or "lengthen your stride."  Ezra Taft Benson didn't have a catch phrase so much as his emphasis on reading and teaching from the Book of Mormon transformed missionary work.  President Hinckley advanced the cause of Zion in so many ways, but he'll always be remembered for the goal of building 100 temples.  I think President Monson's tenure will be remembered for "Hastening the Work" and an unprecedented era of transparency.  When the Church disarms its critics in this manner, it strengthens its position.  Unapologetically declaring truth seems to have that effect.
  25. Like
    spamlds got a reaction from Blackmarch in I need help with some doctrinal understanding   
    I'll give an opinion on this one and you all can consider it or dismiss it, but it's just some notions I've come to over many years. 
    There is a fundamental difference between "fair" and "equal."  Anyone who has kids knows this.  If a parent hands out bowls of ice cream to a large family of children, the "fair" portion for a 2 year-old and a 16 year-old are not "equal."  Likewise, our Heavenly Father judges what is fair, not us.  Thus some apparent inequalities will exist.
     
    These inequities take into consideration our premortal faithfulness.  For example, my patriarchal blessing says that, because of my premortal faithfulness (of which I have no recollection, of course) I was blessed to be born in the land of America.  Whatever I did in the premortal life is related to that blessing somehow.  Each of us has different missions to perform.  It may be the case that some of the most righteous, noble spirits were born in countries where they have much fewer opportunities, because the Lord knew they'd hear his voice in the gospel message, convert, and save hundreds of people around them as well as many of their ancestors.    Likewise a person might be born with a disability because she needs the testing and trials to progress.  It may be that it's her family that needs the testing, through compassionately caring for her.  We just can't say.
     
    We can't say that God is only fair if he gives "equal" chances to hear the gospel.  An inspired dream that LDS pioneer Mosiah Hancock had mentions that some premortal spirits were more concerned about facing lives of physical hardship and asked the Lord to make them wealthy or in high social positions like politicians, judges, etc. so they would have an easier life.  Meanwhile, he saw that many pioneers were willing to sacrifice all worldly comforts when their premortal missions were given to them, all because their devotion to the truth was worth everything to them.
     
    In the spirit world, it is as it is here on earth.  People see what they can see with their spiritual eyes.  People who walk in the light on earth experience life much differently than do the wicked.  When the righteous get to the spirit world, they see the same things they saw here.  They witness miracles.  They are guided by the Holy Ghost.  They resisted evil in life because it was their faith that led them to do so.  The wicked also continue to see the same things when they cross the veil in to the spirit world.  They experience reality based on their perceptions--a world in which there is lack and scarcity, where want and covetousness, lust and envy, and most especially fear dominated their experience.
     
    The big difference between the spirit world and this world is having a body.  We are taught that it is harder to repent without a body.  I think that is so because the spirits have incredible freedom to travel and see things.  The Brigham Young Presidents of the Church manual has a great lesson in it about the spirit world.  Brother Brigham said that spirits can move like lightning and see anything they wish to see.  The key in that notion is their desires.  The righteous will desire to see righteousness.  The wicked will use this ability to try to satisfy wicked desires. 
     
    Imagine this--a wicked man dies who is addicted to alcohol or drugs. He indulged in fleshly lusts in his life, pornography, etc.  In a spiritual state where he can travel and see almost anything, it is reasonable to assume that he might try to satisfy those lusts somehow.  He might travel to places of illicit adult entertainment or bars, nightclubs, etc.  He might even try to possess the body of another mortal to have just a few more moments of mortal pleasure.  That evil spirit would become further entrenched in his evil desires, without the means to satisfy them.  He becomes increasingly warped and wicked in the process.  Unless he repents, he cannot be rescued.  In that spiritual state, it is actually less likely for him to find deliverance. 
     
    The wicked in the spirit world are not yet delivered from Satan's power and his minions.  Similarly, sectarian believers who end up in the spirit world may well think that they are "saved" because they aren't dead.  The doctrines of their religions didn't teach a literal resurrection.  There will be false teacher there, just as there are here, who will say that they should resist the messages brought by those Mormon elders who might lead them to destruction.  Only the righteous, who overcame Satan in mortality through their faith and obedience, will be immune to the Deceiver's power. 
     
    In the end, the unbelieving souls who die do not get any unfair advantage in the spirit world over the living.  God has made it every bit as challenging for them there as it is here.  When they believe, repent, and accept baptism, they do exactly what the penitent do in mortality--they gather with the saints and join together to edify and protect one another.  The wicked do exactly what they do here--they gather with like spirits and seek the wickedness that they were attracted to in mortality.
     
    This is why baptism for the dead is SO important.  It enables a penitent spirit to enter the Church on the other side of the veil and enjoy the same blessings and protection we receive as members.  They get the gift of the Holy Ghost and enjoy the peace of a remission of sins. 
     
    Anyways, those are a few thoughts on the topic at hand.  God is fair, but fair isn't always "equal."  We get the chances we desire.  Our desires are the key factor in what becomes of us in eternity.  That's why agency is always the ultimate factor because our desires connect with agency to determine the outcomes.  We always--always--get what we want because our desires turn into actions and actions into consequences.  It's no different on this side of the veil than on the other in that regard.