Relentless

To get a better understanding of what "traditional" viewpoints are of hell, let's look at the word Hell in the New Testament; The Christian doctrine of hell derives from the teaching of the New Testament, where hell is typically described using the Greek words Tartarus or Hades or the Hebrew word Gehenna. These three terms have different meanings and must be recognized. Tartarus occurs only once in the New Testament in II Peter 2:4 and is translated as a place of incarceration of demons. It mentions nothing about human souls being sent there in the afterlife. Hades has similarities to the Old Testament term, Sheol as "the place of the dead", or in other words, the grave. Thus, it is used in reference to both the righteous and the wicked, since both wind up there eventually. Gehenna refers to the "Valley of Hinnon", which was a garbage dump outside of Jerusalem. It was a place where people burned their garbage and thus there was always a fire burning there. Bodies of those deemed to have died in sin without hope of salvation (such as people who committed suicide) were thrown there to be destroyed. Gehenna is used in the New Testament as a metaphor for the final place of punishment for the wicked after the resurrection. Hell is taught as the final destiny of those who have not accepted Jesus Christ as their savior after they have passed through the great white throne of judgment, where they will be punished for sin and permanently separated from God after the general resurrection and last judgment. The fire and brimstone point of view is most likely derived from the Gehenna usage, because of the constant fires burning. A strictly non doctorinal theory I have is that if you were trying to teach people about the most painful thing you could imagine, being cut off from the presence of Heavenly Father; yet the people you were teaching couldn't understand because they didn't know enough to see how that would be so painful, then how would you describe to them the pain?

What is sad is that Michael Vick was decried as the worst kind of person by people for dogfighting, yet Mr Murder (Ray Lewis) is celebrated as a true NFL success story.

Most people thought that the Broncos would be lucky to win 5 games this year...

That's us, together we are SHEER AWESOMENESS.

Vort, I think she was saying that his love is unconditional, which it is. Do you think that Heavenly Father stops loving us if we don't make it to the Celestial Kingdom? Your answer about "If God's love is unconditional, why will people be condemned to hell?" Is really off base. Now if she had said God's unconditional forgiveness, then you would have a leg to stand on with your argument. And since when is our NOT accepting something that is offered unconditionally make what is offered conditional? Your logic is flawed, and your example is wrong. I think we can all agree that none of US could love someone who had just NAILED our hands and feet to wood enough to say "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do". Yet Jesus did. Seems pretty unconditional to me...

Hey, I just got my wife to sign up! Wait til you meet her, she's AWESOME

You had the AUDACITY to say Shiz? The 3rd to last Jaredite to die? Whew, I guess that would be embarrassing...

Go figure, I always thought it would be the drugs that took this talented young receiver. Maybe it was an argument about drugs? I hope this galvanizes the team for a memorial win Sunday against the Chargers...

Yes, I am a Broncos fan. You know who else is? God. You know how I know? Look at a sunset, what do you see? Orange and Blue!

I think that the need of Temples has been downplayed because of New Testament scriptures like Acts 7:48 48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet, I have engaged in many discussions with non LDS people who claim that this means that Temples were only to be used BEFORE Jesus' attonement. A different take is that after the Attonement, WE became temples ourselves, as cited in 1 Cor 3:16-17 16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are. These verses are often misinterpeted to mean that you do not need PHYSICAL buildings, because God doesn't dwell in them, and because WE are Temples. There are probably several other reasons, but in my gospel debates, these are the two arguments I most often run into.

I am sorry, but you are saying that Stephen King is a good writer? Have you read Dean Koontz? Because his books are only a million times better than anything King has ever written.

So Pam, I take it you are a Chargirls fan? Do you think your Dolts will lose to the Colts in the AFCCG, or before then?

My wife was previously married, and she was not a member until July of this year (Woo Hoo). I had NO problem with her prior expirence, and on top of it I have the blessing (somedays) of 3 stepchildren. Had she not had her expirence, I would not have my step kids. That said, If she has repented, then it is an issue you need to address with yourself. If you feel pain or hurt, then you need to look to the scriptures. See Ether 12:27 27 And if men come unto me I will show unto them their weakness. I give unto men weakness that they may be humble; and my grace is sufficient for all men that humble themselves before me; for if they humble themselves before me, and have faith in me, then will I make weak things become strong unto them. I am not suggesting that you have not prayed or sought Heavenly Father's help in this, but I do know that if He can forgive, then you can as well.

Nah, Captin Moroni. Alma 48:17 17 Yea, verily, verily I say unto you, if all men had been, and were, and ever would be, like unto Moroni, behold, the very powers of hell would have been shaken forever; yea, the devil would never have power over the hearts of the children of men. Seems pretty Relentless to me...

First, Carl62, you have the quote wrong. Joseph Smith never said that we would kill ourselves to get to the Telestial Kingdom. Just like he never said we would crawl across America on our hands and knees to get there. According to the Diary of Charles C. Walker (August 1837, in the Church Historical Department), Wilford Woodruff said the Prophet taught this, roughly: "that if we could see what is beyond the veil we couldn't stand to stay here in mortality for five minutes." The context it was delivered in suggests that he was not talking about the telestial kingdom. He was talking about what it was like to be in the presence of God and the family. reference here Secondly, We don't believe that these people would go to outer darkness. See Doctorine and Covenants 76:81-86 81 And again, we saw the glory of the telestial, which glory is that of the lesser, even as the glory of the stars differs from that of the glory of the moon in the firmament. 82 These are they who received not the gospel of Christ, neither the testimony of Jesus. 83 These are they who deny not the Holy Spirit. 84 These are they who are thrust down to hell. 85 These are they who shall not be redeemed from the devil until the last resurrection, until the Lord, even Christ the cLamb, shall have finished his work. 86 These are they who receive not of his fulness in the eternal world, but of the Holy Spirit through the ministration of the terrestrial;

It's a nickname I've had for years. It started with football because I never gave up, even when my team was getting killed. Also, if I wasn't relentless, I never would have gotten my wife to marry me...

Well, I am a 28 year old member, I have been a member all my life, but went through a period of inactivity a few years back. Now I am back, and had the amazing luck to baptize my wife in July. I have 4 children (3 step, 1 natural) ages 15, 12, 8 and 4. The 15 year old is not a member yet, but he goes to early morning seminary (I make him, but he is a good sport about it) and has better church attendance than several of the members. The 12 year old got baptized last year, and worked with me to get my wife to join until she caved and did. (Interesting story there, but it is too long for right now) My 8 year old was baptized in October, and she told us from the time she was 4 she wanted to join. My 4 year old wants to be baptized as soon as possible. I work full time for the Colorado Army National Guard. I have 1 deployment under my belt, and another in the forseeable future, unless things change.

As someone who wears a Uniform almost every day of the week, I fully support uniforms in schools. When I pick up my oldest from his school, I am amazed at what some of the kids are wearing. I mean, you have girls who look like they are getting ready to walk the streets, and it's below freezing out (I live in the Denver area). Then you have guys wearing skinny jeans or sporting mohawks (not fauxhawks, real life, 10-18 inch high mohawks, although fauxhawks look really dumb to me as well), and I can't help but wish that I didn't live in such a liberal area, where I could voice my opinion and not be labeled a religious whack job. Oh well, I guess that's the price I pay for living in beautiful Colorado... Which reminds me, how do you know God is a Broncos fan? Because he made sunsets Orange and Blue!!

Surely you know Orson Wells classic Citizen Kane? Well, it's not from that one either. #33 is it Star Trek II The Wrath of Khan?

Its an OLD movie... Think Orson Wells

49 is NOT the same movie as o brother where art thou Yours is Robots the final line from 49 is "Whatever's set in front of me. Doesn't have to be wholesome, as long as it's strong."

Who are you, Shawn Spencer? You've heard it both ways... (Don't understand the reference? Look up Psych)

Good, now I can post my complaint. Good King Wenceslas looked OUT (not down) on the Feast of Stephen.

Maybe we need a quick review of Helaman 12 7 O how great is the nothingness of the children of men; yea, even they are less than the dust of the earth. 8 For behold, the dust of the earth moveth hither and thither, to the dividing asunder, at the command of our great and everlasting God. 9 Yea, behold at his voice do the hills and the mountains tremble and quake. 10 And by the power of his voice they are broken up, and become smooth, yea, even like unto a valley. 11 Yea, by the power of his voice doth the whole earth shake; 12 Yea, by the power of his voice, do the foundations rock, even to the very center. 13 Yea, and if he say unto the earth—Move—it is moved. 14 Yea, if he say unto the earth—Thou shalt go back, that it lengthen out the day for many hours—it is done; 15 And thus, according to his word the earth goeth back, and it appeareth unto man that the sun standeth still; yea, and behold, this is so; for surely it is the earth that moveth and not the sun. 16 And behold, also, if he say unto the waters of the great deep—Be thou dried up—it is done. 17 Behold, if he say unto this mountain—Be thou raised up, and come over and fall upon that city, that it be buried up—behold it is done. Seems to me like it is pretty clear, God can do whatever He wants to. Just because we can't understand, or explain it doesn't mean it didn't happen. Remember we are God's children, so we are still learning. Do your children understand everything you know?

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