Tr2

How do you justify saying that? Let's see what morals are:-hacking onto an internet discussion board, that is run by members of your own church, when you are fired because of poor performance as a moderator - calling other people rapists, molestors, abusers, and other criminal names, simply because you don't like them - insulting whomever you wish simply because you want to - looking down your nose on anyone who doesn't believe what you believe - being verbally abusive to people who object to your religion - insulting those who have died in war - repeatedly accusing others of lying because they have a differing opinion Are you exempt from being a moral person?

Saying you were molested is saying that something happened to you. ie some experience I'm not trying to say that you're not allowed to believe something. I am just drawing a clear distinction between a testimony and a statement of faith. My statement of faith is something very close to the Nicene creed, but my testimony is my experiences and encounters with God. snow, I am finished discussing this with you because you are looking to do nothing more than pick a fight. You are deliberately detracting from the discussion to debate semantics. You know exactly what I am discussing, but you want to discuss something else. You know as well as I do that for somebody to say an LDS testimony, it requires no experiential knowledge, no proof, or experience with God to say. But I do have one last thing to quote. I said this earlier before you had such a problem with what I said.

snow why don't you go fall off something, preferably something high.

That is true. There are no consequences here, as there would be in a face to face discussion. The internet is very safe for people who like to insult others freely knowing full well that they will never have to face the person they insult. I know that snow would be much more humble and closed mouthed if him and I ever spoke in person.

If you ever have to testify for anything in court of law, test out your theory. You go ahead and tell what you believe, rather than what you actually saw, heard or experienced (you didn't happen to be on the OJ Simpson jury did you?). Your opinion counts for nothing, only your experience matters. The only people who are allowed to say what they believe are people who have years and years of experience behind them. nice try though.

And I suppose your dad can beat up my dad?

snow, maybe you should start reading your own posts.

Nobody can ever take an experience away from you. It either happened, or it didn't. No. Anything you believe, is truth in your own life. Anything you have experienced, is the same thing. However When I said that I didn't buy it, I meant I didn't buy what most LDS seem to consider a testimony. i will use an example that was recently given on this board; This is not a testimony. It is a statement of belief. There is no personal experience required to say it. I could say it and probably convince others that I believe it, even though I don't. I don't buy this as a testimony, that is what I meant. It's along the lines of any other relgious creed out there. It's important to know what you believe, which this does illustrate clearly, but doesn't do much in the way of indicate why you believe it. Testimonies are basically our life experiences telling why you believe what you believe. So no, I wasn't calling you a liar. It's really nothing more than the misuse of a word that carries a lot of significance. Now that is different. I won't ask for specifics. But I assume that God has changed something in your life through prayer. That is a testimony. I say that because most of what I've heard seems to be the same thing. I know what LDS believe because I've been told what they believe so many times. Why is everything a competition with you? Tell me, is it possible to do each one of those things out of fear of being rejected or fear of being considered not good enough for God?Tim Horton's (in Canada) gives 10% of its profits to charity and it does not have a testimony. How many would march if Marilyn Manson told them to? Do athiests not serve good causes in their youth, and have no testimony? Each of the things you mentioned are good things, but they do not indicate any type of relationship with God nor mean that a person has anything close to a testimony. True. And there is action base out of fear. The "lesser guided" folks? I can try and empathize with that except I don't think my head will fit that far up my rear.

Exact figures? Of course not, because it is subjective. I always compare faiths to marriages. And there are so many ways that a person changes in a marriage. Wheras most religious people seem to live the same things over and over again. The best way to put it (ex for a person who has been xxx for 15 years), is they have been xxx for one year 15 times. Faith is supposed to be a relational thing. People change in relationships. Or at least I do. My marriage gets better every year because my wife and I learn more about each other, we learn new things that we like to do together. Our relationship ius very healthy because we have never had the same marriage for two anniversaries. I love my wife more and more each day and am determined to never allow it to plateau or get comfortable in the motions. Since the bible describes a relationship with God as a bride-groom relationship, faith should be the same.I don't get upset when somebody bashes my marriage relationship because it is secure(bashing my wife is another thing that will get your face kicked). I see so many religious people get so upset when others bash their faith. If what you have is real than what others say shouldn't bother you. if criticism makes your faith stronger, than you are in a faith based out of some kind of rebellion or need to be different. I don't take people's word when it comes to faith because people are good liars. Just look at people's behavior. I know the religious masks because I've worn many of them. I've seen and heard the LDS testimony many times and for the most part I don't buy it. People are saying what they believe, not giving their life experiences. A testimony, by definition, is what? It is your experiences, not what you believe to be true. if you take the stand in a trial are you allowed to say what you believe to be true or do you have to tell your experiences (ie what you saw, what you heard, what you lived)? Some people want to have something so bad that they will settle for simply having an opinion that lacks any of their own experience. I believe we are living in a time where people are more hungry for spirituality than ever before and human beings seem to always do things the quick way and not the proper way. A quick way that I have used to single out the people that I am referring to, is to see who objects to this line of thinking. I think people object because they don't like their ideals to be messed around with, wheras the people who really want to go after God will do whatever it takes.

Yes, most people do say that. However if you speak to most people about their faith in God you will find that they have faith in the God that they have been told about, having no experience of their own.I cannot count the number of mormons who have faith in Joseph Smith's God, and not their own. The same goes for those who follow Billy Graham, Benny Hinn, the Jehovah's Witnesses, etc, etc. They follow a god that another person has met. Only in religious circles are people this silly. Unless you have examples from your own life that have brought you to where you are, you are believing in somebody else's God. The Nicene creed doesn't incidate that you follow God, nor does the LDS testimony because both are simply statements of belief that require no experiential belief in God to say. Would you marry somebody that you had no experience in, but believes was real? Of course not, you commit to those that you have real life experience with. I'd say this probably defines at least 75% of all those in religious circles, and that is a generous figure. It's probably higher.

How many times have I changed the subject in a discussion simply so I could take some kind of shot at you? When I start doing that, then you will understand. When I insult your job, your family, your integrity, and anything that you care about, then you will understand. But you are right, I should ignore him, even though it is difficult at times. Do you think his behavior is a good representation of your religion and what it teaches? I don't. I don't agree with the theology of your religion, wheras I don't think I could have a lower opinion of this man if I tried.

What a creepy thing to say... or even think.Does Reagan even have a choice or will he be forced into mormonism?

Here we have a poster state that he is not willing to stop bashing of others. I wonder if one of our trusted moderators will do anything about this?

But do you understand that if playing God? Man cannot guarantee going to heaven. We cannot get there by our own efforts. If we could then that nulls Jesus' purpose on earth.

This man hacked into this discussion board, and got booted for it. He has insulted a friend of mine who was KIA in Iraq last year. He has taken the head off anybody who has dared think differently than him. He has accused me, peronally, of rape and assault just so he could get the upper hand in a discussion.Do you associate that kind of behavior with Christianity? **edited as per request**

Well I don't think anyone has ever confused snow as a Christian before that post, so that rant shouldn't really be a surprise. It's like a seizure, just let it pass.

It's interesting how the only country, involved in active war at this time, that actually sticks to the Geneva convention is the one that everybody wants to blame for everything that has ever gone wrong. These soldiers are being blamed for everything except the Kennedy assassination. The pictures that we've all seen on TV are the best examples of psychological warfare that can be produced. Those photos were meant to demoralize our enemy and lessen their willingness to fight. And I'll bet they worked very well. And if you know the culture of the enemy that we are fighting then you know how well they probably worked. Excellent warfare!!! Funny how the stories of a few Americans who, for argument's sake we'll say, got carried away, overshadow the people who strap expolsives to their chest and walk into a crowded group of innocent people. The people who teach their children to do the same thing. Are you upset because we aren't treating these POW's better than we treat our soldiers? How about the fact that we don't allow prisoners to have more rights than those who are free? These are people who would kill you, me, and everybody we cared about if they got the chance. If 9/11 didn't prove what kind of enemy we are up against then I don't know what version of reality you are experiencing. I think the way that the American forces have fought this war should be commended. In no other war has civilian casualties been such great concern to a fighting force than this one. Skill and compassion is why so many civilians have not died. Have some, yes. The real problem is that the people who have such a problem with war, have never experienced what it is like to fight for your freedom. They have never lost theirs. Because of the men with guns, that you detest so much, you can live the life you are living. There are men and women with automatic weapons preserving your children's futures, and if you don't like it then don't sit under the blanket of freedom and liberty that is freely provided to you and take pot shots at the people who give it to you without asking anything in return. If you don't like it you have a few options: 1) Leave 2) Keep your mouth shut. Just because you have something to say doesn't mean it's worth hearing. for once in your life think about somebody other than yourself and your own opinions.

who chose wicca?............. snow?

This is a very interesting topic. A little off the wall, but interesting because of the nature of the theology. If you were to kill your children at a young age, I do believe they would go to heaven. Without a doubt. I think you would be screwed because Jesus spoke very harshly against those who would do wrong to children. If you knew your kid wouldn't make it to heaven. Well now we're talking about YOU. You kill your kid, and he/she goes to heaven, but what about you. Did you harm your kids? yep. Did you do what was best for them? Nope. We are supposed to love our children. In a way we have forced them to go to heaven, whether they would have wanted to or not. God has never forced a person into heaven, which is why He gives man a choice in the matter. I once heard somebody say that God loves us so much that He will never force His will onto them. That would not be the best thing for your children because you have robbed them of living on earth, as they were meant to. and you have robbed them of their choice in the matter. You would have forced them to do what you wanted without considering whether or not they even want to go to heaven. If my son ever tells me "Dad, I don't want to go to heaven", that will be the hardest thing I could ever imagine. But I would hope i could respect that decision, because God respected mine for so many years. It is not our job to make sure other people go to heaven. It is our job to make sure they know how to get there.

Best wishes Winnie.

Because their church leaders tell them to. Funny that this would come from somebody who belongs to a church that was formed the the exact way the the bible warned about.

Dude, you're an odd guy. Nice as can be, but still odd.

I will quote myself, And I quote myself again,

You little ######. Don't ever compare those two men in that way again.

Who are you trying to kid? The authors of those idiotic articles are making every attempt they can to demonize the soldiers that are defending the country that you live in.