ConvinceTheWorld

First of all i would like to express my gratitude for starting such an interesting topic.... Favorite LDS doctrine: A very real, personal relationship with our Heavenly Father and Savior not limited to prophecy, revelation, or guidance. Including a very personal Atonement. Least favorite contemporary (protestant) Christian belief: An Idea that grace is somehow above works or that they do not go hand in hand, that by simply expressing Christ as your savior you are fit to enter the kingdom of God and everyone else of all creeds is due an endless torment in a fiery hell.

"then cometh the night of darkness wherein there can be no labor preformed." What does that mean? The temporary spot in the darkness is what happens to every living being w hen it dies. We are left in the darkness to self loathe and work out our own salvation with fear and trembling. Every time you sin the sword of justice continually is spinning around your head until you have atoned* for it. Which is to say, you have satisfied the demands of JUSTICE.

Man has the godgiven gift of free agency. Therefore you may do anything you wish. You must know however, that when you do something that is contrary or against the law it is sin. The justice and judgement of sin will fall on nobody's head but your own. You cant trick yourself into thinking you can somehow escape by repenting later. Dont procrastinate the day of your repentence, nor die in your sins for the realization of your own guilt will be of the most bitter kind, a place set aside where there is weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 And there shall ye remember your ways, and all your doings, wherein ye have been defiled; and ye shall lothe yourselves in your own sight for all your evils that ye have committed. Ezekial 20:43 14 Wherefore, we shall have a perfect knowledge of all our guilt, and our uncleanness, and our nakedness; and the righteous shall have a perfect knowledge of their enjoyment, and their righteousness, being clothed with purity, yea, even with the robe of righteousness. 2nd Nephi 9:14 25 And if they be evil they are consigned to an awful view of their own guilt and abominations, which doth cause them to shrink from the presence of the Lord into a state of misery and endless torment, from whence they can no more return; therefore they have drunk damnation to their own souls. Mosiah 3:25 43 The spirit and the body shall be reunited again in its perfect form; both limb and joint shall be restored to its proper frame, even as we now are at this time; and we shall be brought to stand before God, knowing even as we know now, and have a bright recollection of all our guilt. Alma 11:43

This is not true. Genesis says man and woman, not man and woman's:o

I can relate to his fustrations..... http://www.lds.net/forums/lds-gospel-discussion/41301-adam-god-theory.html Ridiculed till doomsday..... "For if body came into being by spirit what a marvel! But if spirit came into being by body what a marvelous marvel!! for ye already know God has a body of flesh and bones!" You that have faith to look with fearless eyes Beyond the tragedy of a world in strife, And know that out of death and night shall rise The dawn of a better, happier life. Rejoice, whatever anguish is still in your heart, That God has given you with priceless power To live in these great times and have your part In Freedom's crowning hour. That you may tell your children who see the light High in the heavens--Their heritage to take-- "I saw the powers of darkness take their flight: I saw the morning break."

I like your thinking.. My good friend Rodney Meldrum and I were recently speaking about this. Incase you are not familiar with who he is he is the president and founder of the FIRM foundation. (Foundation of Indegineous Research and Mormonism) I sent him an email talking about the legend of Quatzacoatl of Central america (who some members say is Christ) Here is a copy of what i sent. "The feathered serpent legends of central america and Quatzecoatl are also quite fascinating. I read that 100 times and never really realized what it was saying. A feathered serpent is a "snake in the sky". The key is the snake. Then realizing the connection to the Astronomically built snake effigy in Ohio. Then a further connection with the symbolic snake of Eden, Serpent in the wilderness, and the sign of Moses and his staff unto PHAROAH (EGYPT) by turning it into a serpent. " (Incase you are not familiar with the snake effigy in Ohio, it was built by the former inhabitants of the American Continent and it astronomically aligns with all Lunar equinoxes keeping track of seasons) He appointed the moon for seasons: the sun knoweth his going down. (PSALMS 104:19) His reply was: (EMPHASIS ON THE LAST STATEMENT) "I, too, find the Egyptian (and Hebrew) influence in N.A. to be strong evidence for the Book of Mormon's historicity. It makes some sense that the Jaredites would have known astronomy, based, like you mention, on the fact that they came from the Tower of Babel. However, I don't think it can be established that the pyramids were build by any Lamanites, but rather they were built by Asians who were in the America's long before Lehi's group. Modern Mayan's have no genetic signatures linking them with any lineages except Asiatic ones. As I stated in my DVD's...I think that the Maya (and others) worship of The Feathered Serpent is actualy a result of another visit by Christ to his 'other sheep' mentioned in the book. You are right, the serpent is sybolic of Christ which is why Satan tried to fool father Adam and mother Eve while in the garden and appearing to them as a snake, also why the snake became the sign of Christ on the cross in Moses' day, etc. Serpents cannot grow without shedding their old skins, which resembles our need for renewal of our covenants during the sacrament etc. to grow. Lots of great stuff, but I'm tuckered out, and must go hit the hay." Hopefully you enjoyed his analogy with the snake and Christ as much as I did. ^^

Mormonism does not have an "index of forbidden books" It would be contrary to the church and our very divine gift of Free Agency for the church to tell us that we absolutely CANNOT do something. We CAN do anything we want. However Im sure any faithful latter day saint would use the guidelines of the Book of Mormon to decide whether or not what they are reading is beneficial. If it entices and teaches to do Good, it is of God. If it teaches and entices to do bad, it is of the Devil. Again, it is really our own individual choice.

The ABCD's of REPENTANCE & FORGIVENESS A=Admit what you are doing is wrong B=Be Sorry C=Correct it D=Dont do it again When you are forgiven by yourself and of God, it is easier to extend the arm of Mercy and grace to anybody who has done you wrong. Even seventy times seven. Literally you must stand guard in your mind CONSTANTLY for Satan will come whispering things, pray for discernment and try to memorize scripture, then when any outside influence tries to tempt you (in your own head or out), you can compare it to the WORD OF GOD to see if it entices you to do GOOD or entices you to do BAD. This is the path to eternal life. It is a constant battle. I said guard your thoughts for this is the direction of sin... Thought>Temptation>Action>Misery>Death or here is the direction of Righteousness Thought>Temptation>Decline>Endure>Happiness>Eternal life

And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead? (ISAIAH 8:19) Do these things happen because you are either praying or receiving revelation from God? IF these things are true Consider yourself lucky for you are like the Brother of Jared. If you see these things than you have no need for Faith because you KNOW there is life after death. Therefore if you KNOW you should be telling everybody you come into contact with. Everyone has their own gifts. Testify to all you know that there is a God, that there is more to us than this mortal life. =) Consider your Veil, thin and give thanks.

thank you for that...i was listening to "The Killers - A dustland fairy tale" before work today.... Honestly, being LDS you notice certain things in his lyrics that have a significant meaning that might not to someone else....

.....Matthew, Surely you hit the nail right on the head

The united states is much like the Nephites. The settlers were led by the lords hand to the promised land (america) so the restoration of all things could come to pass. We have seriously fell down a deep pit since then. The wickedness and sin that is around us is nowhere near the amount that was here even 100 years ago. Everyone walks after the lust of their own hearts (myself included) and we constantly are chasing pleasure. "It is better to be in a house of mourning than a house of laughter" Surely, every civilization since the beginning of time (whether in scripture,textbook, ect) has set a very definite pattern. That pattern being, that when a peoples are righteous they are upheld and prosper...but as soon as they prosper they are quick to forget the lord thy God and they fall into corruption and are inevitibly destroyed, for the consequence of sin is death. We are awaiting the destruction of the wicked. It is a global event wherein no land or people will be spared. I for one am rather excited for the times ahead.... I mean, How much more dependent on God would we be if we couldnt go to the grochery store and were dependent on rainfall to eat??? Sounds like paradise to me. Living like the original/Founding Latter-Day Saints to create ZION. The society that we live in today is none other than BABYLON THE GREAT /Rant_off .....now gotta get ready for work so that while I am young and I can give my health for money and when I am older I can give my Money for my Health *sigh* Have a good one guys...

Indeed the Gospel is for Sinners and the sick, for the whole and healthy need no physician! Indeed, it seems there are instances when members will be hestitant to join church ran recovery programs for they fear their sins will be "shouted at the rooftops, and their secret acts revealed!" Unlike substance abuse, most other sins cannot be known just by simply laying your eyes on a person. yes, it is true that some drugs and chemicals will actually damage or have physical effects on the body. One good example that comes to mind was - a person to whom we were teaching was struggling with tobacco addiction and was fearful to come to church that other members might smell the smoke* Our reply was: "If all sin had a smell, nobody would be able to bear sitting in a room with one another"*** Surely these are the sorts of people we would want to see attending church the most***

blaming these consequences on God is the exact same as "intentionally committing sin and then blaming God because you feel bad inside" Again, another random but similiar comparison would be - You are walking barefoot in your house and stub your toe! Now would you curse and blame God because you forgot to raise your foot?

No, I'll try again. I thought my first line answered your question directly...that is like asking "how exactly does one feel the burning power of the Holy Ghost?" Or "how is it that Christ died for us?" Or "How is baptisms for the dead by proxy possible?" These spiritual laws cannot be explained in the confines of our earthly understanding*** We dont know how- we just do.... It is certainly easier to detect Satan's whispers than it is to attempt to explain how it is that he does it**