Latter Days Guy
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Posts posted by Latter Days Guy
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I heard some bakeries are now making only generic wedding cakes. Any customizing must be done by a third party. They do not want any arguments over making a natural wedding cake or homosexual wedding cakes.
Can cakes be gay?
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Yeah, sorta makes me feel kinda simple, being from a group that just goes by AG...
Funny as in the UK they go by AOG!
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Temple Prep Class.
https://www.lds.org/manual/preparing-to-enter-the-holy-temple?lang=eng
Thats also in the Gospel Library app!
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When I lived in St. George, I was five minutes from the temple (it's the only time I've lived that close to a temple). During that time, I attended the temple weekly...and insights began to come to me through that regular attendance.
I realize that is not something all of us can do. I can't do it now...the temple is 45 min. away (each way). But still it was the best temple education experience I have had. :)
Wow! I wish the Preston Temple was only 45 minutes away, would be there several times a week if it was!
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I spent two years in Northern England and never got to attend the London Temple.
Cool! Where about's did you serve?
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I don't own anything orange...bad look for a man, and you are right. No one would know...my upbringing is NEVER use Church for political statements. I will wear a flag lapel pin, these days learning more toward American / Israel pins. I live in a Ward that has 6 Jews (by linage) in my Ward. Each of them are uneasy about the way Israel is being thrown under the bus and the reemergence of anti-Semitic attitudes rising again in Europe.
More like Israel throwing itself under a bus, and its more of an anit-Israel attitude than an anti-Semitic attitude as more people are coming to realise how Israel is more interested in hindering the peace process than participating in it.
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That's not quite what the article says:
In 1988, in an enormous compromise, the Palestinian National Council, or parliament-in-exile, voted to accept a two-state solution that would return to Palestinians only the 22 percent of their land that had been occupied in 1967.
Now, what territories did Israel occupy in 1967 that it hadn't occupied previously? Answer: Gaza and the West Bank. What do the land masses of these territories consist 22% of? Answer: pre-1948 British Palestine. As I wrote earlier:
Which is what I said above, that they would get 22% of the land occupied since 1967, i.e. Gaza and the West Bank.
By contrast: Wikipedia gives the area for the old British Mandate of Palestine as 26,184 square kilometers. It has Gaza's area at 360 square kilometers and the West Bank at 5640 square kilometers--so together, Gaza and the West Bank constitute 22.914 percent of Mandate-era Palestine.
Furthermore, given that this is the block of land that was theoretically supposed to be carved into the proposed Palestinian and Jewish states, it is mathematically impossible to claim that the Palestinians were willing to settle for 22% of the land allocated to them under the 1948 plan. The article is saying that, in spite of the 1947 partition plan, the entire area is still "their [read: Palestinian] land". So much for acknowledging Israel's right to exist.
I would agree, as the UN didn't really have the moral right to take someone else's land and give it away in the first place. But then the reality of the situation hasn't been missed by the Palestinians who have with the Oslo accord recognised the right of Israel to exist and that they have given up the armed struggle to seek a political resolution, which has been dragged out since 1993 by Israel whilst it has continued to annex territory and build illegal settlments.
Did you read your own graphic? Third box from the left is entitled "U.N. Partition Plan 1947". The West Bank and Gaza are clearly far more than 22% of the Palestinian-allocated lands under that plan.
I believe that the total area given to the Palestinians in the UN partition plan was about 46% of the land, which is a lot more than the 22% they are willing to accept now.
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If your referring to the diagram I posted showing Palestinian land loss then that is all it shows, it has nothing to do with any proposed land area for a palestinian state other than showing the initial partition in 1948.
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As this article states in 1988 the Palestinian national council voted to accept a 2 state solution based upon 22% of the land occupied since 1967.
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I applaud people like you and Just A Guy for attempting to bring truth to this thread. And am in awe of your patience in dealing with people who would cling to their anti-Semitism with every fiber of their being, rather than open their eyes to truth. I comfort myself with the knowledge that they will someday have to be accountable to their Heavenly Father. I am confident he will not have the reaction to their propaganda that they so arrogantly expect.
I had a rare and unexpected opportunity to meet and listen to a high-ranking official intimately involved with the peace talks over the years. It was highly educational as well as disheartening and downright frightening. It is hard to maintain hope in light of the knowledge that Israel agreed to everything the Palestinians were asking for, yet it was rejected because having all of the land they were demanding wasn't really their goal. It's just a smokescreen for the true objective - the elimination of every Jew on the planet.
I'm sorry but did you just call me an anti-Semite? You couldn't be further from the truth if you tried!
Disagreeing with Israeli policy towards the peace talks and the establishment of a Palestinian state does not in any way shape or form make you anti-Semitic. If it did then there are plenty of Jewish Israeli's who disagree as well, are they anti-Semitic as well? Let me be clear, I fully support the idea of a Jewish state, that Israel has a right to exist. But I also support the right of Palestinians to also have a homeland to call their own.
I think you may have been duped by that so called high ranking official, as over the many years of the peace process the amount of land that the Palestinians have asked for has shrunk considerably from the 1948 partition to the current proposed 22% of said partition. Clearly the Israeli's are getting the better deal. But then their true intent is to wipe the Palestinians of the face of the map, which they have been doing since they took control of the occupied territories in their dreams of creating greater Israel.
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What, do you not get wikipedia in your part of the world?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Widow_(Natalia_Romanova)
(hehe...just noticed Latter Days Guy beat me to it. But he didn't include the snarky question...so....)
Must try harder to be snarky!
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Woohoo! This time the dance around words (being politically correct) isn't from my Left Wing self
I don't think it's a big deal, as a tea party or tea time, is just another term for sitting down in a social setting and eating. Whenever we're visiting family in England, the phrase is typically used in this sense, and they are active LDS. So it could just be a cultural thing. On the same thought, my daughter has played "tea party" with friends and cousins who come from active LDS households, and their parents have never made a fuss about it - in fact - their mums also use the wording.
Well I've just cooked tea for my son and I, not a single cup of actual tea was involved! Never realised it was such a hot potato for LDS!
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What part of communism is garbage, LG?Is it the public school system?Is it a progressive or graduated income tax?Is it the centralization of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank?Tell me what part of communism you have a real problem with?Personally I don't have a problem with anyone being a communist or believing in communism, that is after all their free choice. But as Latter Day Prophets have said its not Heavenly Fathers way of doing things so therefore should be avoided.Just as an aside, do you consider yourself a Socialist or is socialism garbage also?No I consider myself to be a Christian.You wrote: "And those would be?"Apparently everything I’ve said so far.You wrote: “No, you did that all by yourself when you said you would trade your president for a neo fascist war criminal.”I did what all by myself?? I confess you've lost me.Ridiculed yourself maybe?As far as Netanyahu being a fascist war criminal, that is merely your opinion. As far as I know he hasn't been convicted of any such thing.In regards to trading him for a would-be-dictator who regularly and willfully violates his oath to "preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States", (which isn't mere opinion) I plead guilty and unapologetic.And that would be your opinion also.You wrote: "You do know that communism and socialism aren't the same thing don't you?"No, but I guess I'm in good company. I'll just re-post (since no doubt you didn't read it the first time) what a prophet, seer, and revelator said about them: "The paths we are following will inevitably lead us to Socialism or Communism and these two are as like as two peas in a pod in their ultimate effect upon our liberties. Never forget for one moment that Communism and Socialism are state slavery."President David O. McKay used the phrase "communism/socialism" many times while discussing the issue. He rarely differentiated between the two, but maybe all that is just more "right wing garbage", huh?
And that doesn't change the fact that they are not by definition the same thing. They both may be wrong but that doesn't change the fact that by definition they are not one and the same thing.
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Did I say any had?
You wrote that you didn't believe the "right wing garbage" immediately after my quotes from prophets and apostles. What then were you referring to?
No I said I wasn't a communist and that I wasn't right wing either, both are in my opinion garbage.
You wrote: "Which left wing ideology would that be?
The left wing ideology that can't stomach any derogatory remark regarding communism or socialism.And those would be?You wrote: "Do you have anything to actually contribute to the actual topic of this thread or are you just going to continue with your rant about communism which does seem to be a common thread running through all your posts."The OP was simply anatess's opinion of Netanyahu.My contribution was to simply agree with her opinion by stating that I would gladly trade him for our current POTUS.Your contribution was to ridicule my opinion, and since then anyone else's opinion that doesn't square with yours.No, you did that all by yourself when you said you would trade your president for a neo fascist war criminal.As for Communism/Socialism you are more than welcome to NOT respond to my posts regarding that issue if they annoy you. But when you do respond I'll answer your "rants" as long as you press on.Your move.You do know that communism and socialism aren't the same thing don't you? -
Maroon is a term made famous by a cartoon character (Bugs Bunny) meaning a pushover, or one easily fooled. Maybe he added an extra "o" to indicate a double moron?
Obviously not that famous then.
You wrote: "All well and nice but I'm not a communist, don't believe in communism but also don't believe in right wing garbage either."
So in your opinion, which of those prophets and apostles (perhaps all?) were spouting "right wing garbage".
Did I say any had?
You wrote: "I blame the Martians, its always those pesky Martians... And communists.... No wait, you beat them... Its those pesky Moozlums!"
Ah yes, a classic dodge. Run out of argument; ridicule the premise. How pathetic.
Not really.
You wrote: "The difference I see here is that God influenced the founding fathers and gave them the inspiration to write the constitution. Where as in the case of Ancient Israel God was an active part of the conquest of the land and the creation of ancient Israel."
The story of America began long before the Founding Fathers.
The BOM clearly explains that God motivated Columbus (many prophets and apostles have affirmed that the "man among the Gentiles" Nephi saw in vision was Columbus) to cross the waters to America.The BOM clearly explains that God motivated other Gentiles to travel to America also.The BOM clearly explains that God fought their battles and delivered them out of the hands of those who would have enslaved them once more.And as I've already pointed out, numerous prophets and apostles have spoken about America's DIVINE "preparation", "founding", and "destiny". President Benson spoke eloquently testifying that America was established by God to be His base of operations in the last days.But I suppose all of that is just more "right wing garbage"?I'm curious, LDG. Is there anything a prophet or apostle could say, that wouldn't square with your left wing ideology, that you would accept as being true?Which left wing ideology would that be? Do you have anything to actually contribute to the actual topic of this thread or are you just going to continue with your rant about communism which does seem to be a common thread running through all your posts. -
Apparently not.
I can't say as I've ever actually watched a Bugs Bunny cartoon, but my kids did when they were young and I guess I picked up on some things via the audio.
I can say, however, that had I used the word "Moron" I would not have used a possessive apostrophe. But then I'm not a "teacher and an educationalist" so what do I know?
Oops, very sorry, was late and I didn't proof read my post before posting.
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It's really stupid to have to point this out... Latter Days Guy is clearly hard-lined.
Lebanon War - 70's and early 2000's
Rise of PLO insurgency in South Lebanon after they got kicked out of Jordan - Question - WHY did Jordan wash their hands of them and made them an Israeli problem?
Because the then King of Jordan was worried about a possible coup which could have been backed bt the Palestinian refugee's so he forced them out.
1982 - Israeli invasion of South Lebanon - WHY? Remember the assassination attempt of Israel's ambassador to Britain? Do you also remember the PLO attacks against Northern Israel? After 10 years of this, Israel finally invaded South Lebanon and wiped the area clean. It's still going on until today... Iran is still funding Hezbollah and Israeli Prime Ministers continue making speeches about nuke ban on Iran...
To try and destroy the military wing of the PLO which was fighting a gorilla war to regain their homeland maybe? They hardly wiped them clean, though they did allow the refugee camps to become the killing grounds in what is one of the worst atrocities to happen in their invasion of Lebanon.
All an Israeli has to do is sneeze on a Palestinian and Palestine has a cause to mass protest... Simply settled by one question - who gets to control the Territories? The loser or winner of war? Who gets to control the Falklands? Britain or Argentina? Same concept.
Not really, the Falklands were British sovereign territory which were invaded and those invaders were pushed out by military conflict. Palestine was divided and given to another non-indigenous people by the UN, though the rest of the land was eventually swallowed up until the indigenous people no longer had any land.
Like I said... PAWNS. All bought and paid for by anti-semitist powers and the bleeding hearts of gullible guys.
Not at all, Israel could have had peace a long time ago but has failed to live up to the treaties and accords that it signed.
And by the way... War Criminal is neither left nor right wing. If that's how you see things then go play soccer with your politics. That's pretty much ALL it's worth.
Thats right, you can have both left and right wing war criminals, he just happens to be a right wing war criminal.
If we're going to point marginalization of Palestinians since 1948 go put that entire lot and dump it on the lap of your beloved British Parliament. America has been cleaning your mess ever since!
Since 1948? Hardly, before then probably. Since then its been that big veto in the UN the US pulls out when ever anyone farts in the general direction of Israel that has caused the marginalisation of the Palestinians.
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Yeah, those McCarthyites---what a bunch of maroons, eh?Here's a sampling of some of their "reds under the bed mentality."Your words not mine! Though I think you meant MORON's and not a dark shade of red!"Communism being hostile and incompatible with true Church membership, of necessity no faithful Church member can be a communist. We call upon all Church members completely to eschew Communism." (Message from the First Presidency, Heber J. Grant, J. Reuben Clark, David O. McKay, 1936)"The conflict between communism and freedom is the problem of our time. It overshadows all other problems." (President David O. McKay, Conference Oct. 1959)"The fight against godless communism is a very real part of every man's duty who holds the priesthood. It is the fight against slavery, immorality, atheism, terrorism, cruelty, barbarism, deceit, and the destruction of human life through a kind of tyranny unsurpassed by anything in human history. Here is the struggle against the evil, satanical priestcraft of Lucifer. Truly it can be called, a continuation of the war in heaven.No true Latter-day Saint and no true American can be a socialist or a communist or support programs leading in that direction. These evil philosophies are incompatible with Mormonism, the true gospel of Jesus Christ."(Ezra Taft Benson, Conference, Oct. 1961)"Why are we so timid in standing up to a Godless communist police state…? Our liberty is in danger. We must be vigilant. Let us unite. Let us join in the fight against the forces of anti-Christ." (Ezra Taft Benson Oct. 1962)"The position of this Church on the subject of communism has never changed. We consider it the greatest Satanical threat to peace, prosperity, and the spread of God's work among men that exists on the face of the earth." (President (David O. McKay, Conference, April 1966)"Communism is Satan's counterfeit for the gospel plan...it is the greatest anti-Christ power in the world today and therefore the greatest menace...to our preservation as a free people. By the extent to which we tolerate it, accommodate ourselves to it, permit ourselves to be encircled by its tentacles and drawn to it, to that extent we forfeit the protection of the God of this land." (Marion G. Romney, First Presidency Message, Ensign, September 1979)This is just a small sampling of the "reds under the bed" mentality of modern-day prophets and apostles. I could list more from Brigham Young, John Taylor, J. Reuben Clark, Stephen L. Richards, Melvin J. Ballard, Albert E Bowen, Spencer W. Kimball, Howard W. Hunter, and many others.These are men we have sustained as prophets, seers, and revelators. Don't you think it would be wise to seriously consider their warnings?C'mon LDG, lay aside your political ideology and exercise a little faith in prophets and apostles. Have some faith that they actually understand a little about Satan's game plan and strategies. Have some faith that they warn about these things while being guided by the Holy Spirit. Have some faith that they are in fact God's "Watchmen upon the tower."All well and nice but I'm not a communist, don't believe in communism but also don't believe in right wing garbage either.You wrote: "The US is hardly a bastion of freedom and liberty though is it..."Cool. You and I actually agree on something!
And why is it no longer a "bastion of freedom and liberty"?I blame the Martians, its always those pesky Martians... And communists.... No wait, you beat them... Its those pesky Moozlums!Because for the past 100+ years we have slowly but surely supplanted constitutional principles with communist/socialist principles just as prophets and apostles warned us against.We have done precisely what the Nephites of old were guilty of---we have allowed modern-day Gadianton Robbers to infiltrate government and corrupt the laws that God himself established; and if we continue further down the same path we will suffer for it just as they did.While J. Reuben Clark was serving as a counselor in the First Presidency he warned the members of the Church--- "The paths we are following will inevitably lead us to Socialism or Communism and these two are as like as two peas in a pod in their ultimate effect upon our liberties. Never forget for one moment that Communism and Socialism are state slavery."He also said to those members of the Church who may have communist leanings--- "I ask you prayerfully and humbly to think this thing over, because if it comes here there will be a lot of vacant places among those who guide and direct this church of ours."Think about a warning like that coming from a prophet, seer and revelator!You wrote: "...and the only nation that has ever been founded by God was ancient Israel..."I'll admit I'm totally baffled as to how any Latter-day Saint can make such a claim?Have you read and considered the 13th chapter of 1 Nephi?Have you read and considered the 101st section of the D&C?Have you read and considered Ezra Taft Benson's Conference talk of April 1962?Have you read and considered the Church’s Bicentennial year message titled "God’s Hand in the Founding of America."?America has its "Founding Fathers" and God proclaims that He "raised those men up for that very purpose"!Scores of past prophets and apostles have spoken about America's DIVINE "preparation", "founding", and "destiny".Like I said, you need to lay aside your political ideology long enough to read, ponder, and pray about those things prophets and apostles have said about communism, the importance of agency, and the preparation and destiny of America.The difference I see here is that God influenced the founding fathers and gave them the inspiration to write the constitution. Where as in the case of Ancient Israel God was an active part of the conquest of the land and the creation of ancient Israel.
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This confusion happens when you rely on media for your political point of view instead of studying the historical development of a specific geopolitical area.
Nope, I base my views on study, and actually talking to the people involved.
These arguments have gone on for too long - who did this, who did that, who fired first, who killed last... This is not how you determine a political point of view. This is what you do in a WORLD CUP SOCCER MATCH! You fling accusations like penalty kicks!
You can get a better understanding of what is going on in that area if you study the history of the Middle East as far back from Yasser Arafat as you can - as many sources as you can find. Pre 1800's history would be great. Study the population demographics (especially ethnicity) in this area and how it has changed and why it changed from then until now... who was in power, why power changed, what happened when power changed... and take into account the colonial era and what that meant to ethnicity and borders and government... and then take into account the end of the colonial era and what that meant to borders and government that leads to today.
I have done and there was very small numbers of Jews living in Palestine until be beginning of the modern Zionism movement. There was however large groups of Palestinian Christians and Muslims under the Ottomans rule in that area.
And please try to find a reason why it wasn't until Arafat that a "Palestinian State" even became an issue... and they happen to land on that tiny area they have now instead of being absorbed into all the NEWLY FORMED AFTER WWI arab countries that occupy 99% (just my own guesstimate, don't quote me) of the Middle East. And especially why Jordan closed the doors to the PLO while at the same time egging on their conflict against the Israelis...
Actually there was a Palestinian independence movement during the Ottoman period.
Then note how there is only ONE Jewish State whereas there are numerous muslim countries 20+ of which are Arab Nations... yet Palestinians choose to stay in that teeny tiny patches of land and undermined border negotiations post WWII and then surrounding Arab Nations tell them they need to expand into Israel to support their population instead of expanding into... say Jordan or Egypt.
As far as I know there are no purely Muslim countries, Israel isn't a purely Jewish state either as it does in fact have Arab Christian and Muslim citizens.
Then try to figure out why the PLO still has the destruction of Israel in their charter and why Israel is peaceful with Egypt even ceding Sinai over (by the way, figure out why Israel owns Sinai in the first place to hand over to Egypt)... etc. etc.
Eh, no it doesn't and it hasn't done since they formally recogised that the State of Israel has a right to exist.
When you look at this rich history in detail then fly up to 5,000 feet and look down at what drives these events, you can see clearly that it's quite a miracle that Israel hasn't gotten blown up yet. And Netanyahu's determination and strength and political know-how has a lot to do with that. So that, instead of seeing a war criminal (as Nelson Mandela was seen by many), you might see how strong this little teeny tiny State has to be.
You are seriously comparing a right wing zealot with Nelson Mandela?
Now, of course, Palestinian territories are even more teeny tiny - but, looking at the history, you might see what I see - the INTENTIONAL isolation of the Palestinian territories from the 99% Arab/Muslim nations to make the Jewish State seem like a BIG BAD WOLF swatting at the little piggies... because, the truth that Israel is actually not fighting just Palestinians but the rest of its neighbors will make those silly "Israeli expansion of borders" pictures seem comical.
None of Israel's neighbours have fought against Israel since 1973, but then Israel has attacked several of its neighbours. That says a lot more about Israel's intent in the region than its neighbours.
You just might see what I see - that the Palestinians are merely PAWNS and that everyday Palestinians and their supporters don't need to be shaking their sticks at Israel and Netanyahu, rather, they need to have a come-to-Allah-moment with the muslim caliphate and the pan-arabists for their desperate lot in life - so desperate that they are driven to put bombs around their children to kill Israelis! The Sinai Peninsula is huge and it is owned by Egypt. So we could as easily have a Palestinian-Egyptian conflict and there's the West Bank which could easily have a Palestinian-Jordanian conflict - and it's not so out of the realm of possibility that Palestinians are going to strap bombs on their children to send to Egypt or Jordan. But no, it has to be Palestinian-Israeli conflict. Why is That?
It makes me think what would make someone so desperate that they would see no other option but to strap bombs to themselves to be heard? The Palestinians have been marginalised since 1948 by the world community, Israel has ducked and dived its way out of the peace process at every opportunity. But the crux of the matter is a large population of refugees from Europe were given the land of the indigenous Palestinian Arabs, thus creating a second group of refugees who have been without a homeland for over 60 years. You do know that the Sinai was given back to Egypt with their peace treaty right? That it was never actually a part of Israel or Palestine and has always been a part of Egypt?
The answer to that question may determine if Netanyahu is truly a war criminal.
All the evidence points to him being one and Israel is getting investigated by the Hague War Crimes tribunal so they must think so as well.
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Have you seen Event Horizon? It's on Netflix and just seeing it on the list gives me the heebie jeebies.
Awesome film, went to see it at the cinema back in the day! Sam Neil is pretty amazing in it, as is Laurence Fishburne! Gets pretty gory though!
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And, incidentally, this ^^ is blatant false doctrine.
I think Jesus response would be along these lines:
LDS view of Israel
in LDS Gospel Discussion
Posted
The thing is, what God gave, God took away. The land they occupy illegally today is not and has never been a part of Modern Israel, a fact that is conveniently swept under the table whenever it is brought up.
I'm very much in the replacement theology camp, The Church today is Israel, we are the heirs to the covenant.