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The Folk Prophet

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Everything posted by The Folk Prophet

  1. The Folk Prophet
    That's because every generation since the 40s has gotten more and more scandalous. A spade's a spade. What can you do?
  2. The Folk Prophet
    Nothing prevents us from discussing truth. We just use different words. The word "grace" is doesn't fully describe what we know to be truth, because of the usage it's had in other sects. But the concept -- the Atonement of Christ -- is fully alive as a subject and easily discussed in the LDS world.
  3. The Folk Prophet
    To be fair, he wasn't the prophet when he wrote this. But the point remains.
  4. The Folk Prophet
    Apparently mdfxdb has another unique meaning for the word doctrine. Great. That'll really help settle the issue. So much talking past each other. Not much use in that, really.
  5. The Folk Prophet
    omega... You cannot find, nor will you find anywhere in any of the statements made by any of us, ever, a comment that claims prophets never make mistakes. So what are you harping on about?
  6. The Folk Prophet
    This was true in spades concerning blacks not holding the priesthood prior to '78. So...interesting, right?
  7. The Folk Prophet
    Says who? I don't claim it true or false. Other's are claiming him "wrong about sex". I'm simply asking for evidence to support that claim. Give me some viable evidence other than opinions and I'll gladly accept it. I have no stake in the matter whatever. You're assuming a lot about my attitudes and beliefs. Likely. But that's not proof. It doesn't prove him wrong either. The issue, really, is that if the idea is going to be used to support an argument that prophet's can be wrong (something that no one is arguing against, frankly) then it better be provably wrong. Frankly it would make a lot more sense to be using the quotes from former prophets and apostles about blacks and the priesthood that have been disavowed. Of course, the church disavowing them doesn't prove them wrong. Just unsupported by the church. But...at least you'd have a valid leg to stand on in the argument. You'd do even better with the Adam/God theory or people living on the moon or something. Kimball was wrong on sex is a hard thing to sell as support for the position though. Particularly when the core principle being taught (moral cleanliness, chastity, virtue) is rock-solid doctrine, even if he happened to get a detail a bit askew from factual reality. You're reading comprehension suffers from major bias. Virtue/chastity is not about the physical act of sex. In point of fact, having sex is a commandment. Keeping our virtue is based on how and when we act -- within the bounds set by the Lord. I'm still waiting for you to address the Savior teaching us to cut our hands off and gouge out our eyes.
  8. The Folk Prophet
    Haha. That's rich coming from someone like you... ...said the pot to the kettle... uh...self quote... Did you not bother to read this ^?
  9. The Folk Prophet
    This is not a "nitpick" thing. The difference in meaning is HUGE. And you can't prove he was wrong any more than I can prove he was right. And even one time is "too often". So I'm thinking "dead wrong" is a bit faulty. I'd have no trouble at all admitting that he was wrong if there was evidence to the contrary. None. But I do have trouble with accusations of "dead wrong" when there is no evidence of that either. My contention is not, nor has it ever been, that prophets are never wrong. What I have a problem with is taking any ideas we're uncomfortable with and writing them off as wrong just to suit our own myopic sensibilities. This explanation of Misshalfway's is a prime example of wherein we can certainly not see eye to eye with a prophet and still support and sustain them. It seems fairly clear that some prophets (Brigham-cough-Young) were less tactful than others. Seeing a prophet's communication ability as weak or without diplomacy is viable. But it does not make their words wrong. What kind of loving parent would prefer their child end up losing their salvation? Ridiculous. Of course I'd prefer my child gains eternal life over a long life of illicit sexual trysts. That doesn't mean or translate in any way to a hope that said person will die young. Duh. Of course not. How anyone can think that anyone else would believe that based off of such a concept is astounding. The key is "if". Worse case scenario. If you had to choose. One or the other. Which is better. The answer is obvious. Anyone who chooses other than eternal salvation for their children would be shamefully foolish. But who has to choose this? No one, that's who. How is this sort of teaching any different than plucking an eye out if if offends you. That it's better to go through life maimed than to be cast into the fire? You want to take a run at the Savior next for his harmful teachings? I could, of course, further debate that the way this idea was taught seems to be purposeful twisted to suit agendas, but it would be useless to do so. Those determined to see harm will find harm. Suicide culture blather and all that. As if that was what he meant in any way shape and form. Not a chance. But that's irrelevant. Even if his method of teaching lacked finesse -- even if it is "harmful" to certain psyches, it still, point blank, remains doctrinally correct. A person should be more concerned about their salvation than even their physical lives.
  10. The Folk Prophet
    He did not say "will lead". That is false. He said "too often leads". Conversely it would be better to die having broken the law of chastity?
  11. The Folk Prophet
    Snow maybe?
  12. The Folk Prophet
    I have to get back to this Kimball was wrong on sex thing though. Seriously, somebody... What?! Please explain.
  13. The Folk Prophet
    I think it fair to point out that there have been various statements made that "doctrines do not change!" over the years. (Boyd K. Packer was particularly fond of this sort of declaration). Therefore, it has to be conceded that there is a way of defining "doctrine" that excludes the priesthood ban.
  14. The Folk Prophet
    But JAG... None of this has any meaning because some church website article said "These previous personal statements do not represent Church doctrine.” Don't you know anything? A web article from the church supersedes any other point of logic, quotes, historical understanding, wisdom or argument. The article has been quoted. We lose the debate! Sorry. I couldn't resist.
  15. The Folk Prophet
    I'd say if you qualify "teachings" with "current" then, yes, we must need qualify "doctrine" with "current" as well.
  16. The Folk Prophet
    Now who's using words interchangeably? Keep your "we" to yourself please.
  17. The Folk Prophet
    How do you know which statements of what is and is not "doctrine" are personal opinion then? Me -- I think they are both accurate ...because...it WAS doctrine. Now it is not. That's the only explanation that makes sense. Doctrine (meaning what it actually means -- the teachings of an organization) can change.
  18. The Folk Prophet
    Here's a few "doctrine" quotes for you omega... (emphases mine) "From the days of the Prophet Joseph Smith even until now, it has been the doctrine of the Church, never questioned by Church leaders, that the Negroes are not entitled to the full blessings of the Gospel." - George Albert Smith "The attitude of the Church with reference to Negroes remains as it has always stood. It is not a matter of the declaration of a policy but of direct commandment from the Lord, on which is founded the doctrine of the Church from the days of its organization, to the effect that Negroes may become members of the Church but that they are not entitled to the priesthood at the present time." - George Albert Smith "From the days of the Prophet Joseph Smith even until now, it has been the doctrine of the Church, never questioned by Church leaders, that the Negroes are not entitled to the full blessings of the Gospel." - First Presidency, Statement of The First Presidency July 17 1947 "The Church has no intention of changing its doctrine on the Negro. Throughout the history of the original Christian church, the Negro never held the priesthood. There's really nothing we can do to change this. It's a law of God." - N. Eldon Tanner
  19. The Folk Prophet
    We do not know what caused it's placement in the first place. We only know that the theories used to explain it have been disavowed.
  20. The Folk Prophet
    Unfair! Now credentials count?!
  21. The Folk Prophet
    Here Vort. Since the precedent of any reference counts as much as any other has been established, you can reference me: "Denying the priesthood to those of African descent was once a doctrine of the LDS church." - TFP
  22. The Folk Prophet
    Do: Keep the commandments. Do not: Not keep the commandments.
  23. The Folk Prophet
    How do you reconcile that with doctrines of other churches? Do you mean that you define "doctrine" uniquely for the LDS church? But for every other church it means what it means - per the dictionary? Just for our church it has some mystical, elusive neo-meaning? How very confusing.
  24. The Folk Prophet
    Not to nitpick...except to nitpick really...but it's Scrooged with Bill Murray. Scrooge, on the other hand, is a musical version of A Christmas Carol with Albert Finney as Scrooge. A much, much better movie than the ultra-lame, incredibly un-funny Scrooged.
  25. The Folk Prophet
    Maybe they were gay as pre-pre-mortal intelligences and God didn't make them that way at all.