lagarthaaz

I do know who the high councilor is, I've met him when I've been trying to clean with the dodgy vacuum that just won't suck up the dirt anymore and he tried to help me fix it (we ended up having to get another vacuum). He's from the 'other' ward, and he's a nice guy, but seems to me that he's pretty ineffectual considering all the problems we have. There's not much we can do but put up with it, if the leadership haven't yet gotten together to take charge of caring for the building. They put together a cleaning roster for the wards, but then forget about it. If I ruled the world, every bishop would remind the members every Sunday to keep the building clean (and discipline the kids who are making most of the mess - make them spend a Mutual activity scraping the gum off the bricks around the building for starters). Anyway, it's Sunday soon and I will be having a chat with Bishop - hopefully something will happen. Now we are going through four cycles of meetings on Sunday it's becoming even more critical.

Yep, that is too true. I know 'we' in our ward do it. But that's because we know who the majority of the culprits are

Getting rid of the custodians was not the greatest idea- the decline in the standard of the buildings is evidence of that. I remember being in a branch when that change occurred many years ago, and our custodian lost the job that supported his wife and four children. I'm sure the original plan was to 'save' money, but I wonder if all the repairs balance that out. For example in our building three out of the four industrial vacuums need replacing, the library and stake president's photocopiers need replacing, the brickwork is falling to bits outside on the paths, kitchenware and furniture have all gone walkies to who knows where, classroom boards are a mess from the graffiti..how much must all that cost to replace in total?

Thank you, I guess there is a part of me that doesn't want to go to bishop with a complaint, as he has a difficult enough job dealing with other issues in the ward. He is marvelous, but I see him looking more careworn every year and don't want to add to his burden. The issue has to be addressed though...and I'm trying not to be mean here, but everyone in the Stake knows which ward are the graffiti/snot-wiping/chewing-gum-spitting/wall punchers with the wild and crazy kids who scream around the chapel on Sunday and crash into everyone else. We meet right after them - we know who they are. As you can imagine it would be difficult for anyone to go to the bishop of that ward and tell him how annoyed other people are by the mess and lack of respect we have to put up with from his flock. It's a bit of a complex issue, but something has to be said!

My oldest daughter was relentlessly bullied and excluded by girls in the branch where we grew up. Once she went to university she stopped attending church and has never been back. My next daughter is twelve and we are a minority in our ward. She was having a joke with one girl, when another girl came over and said 'you are weird'...not being a shrinking violet, my daughter replied that she's not weird, she has a sense of humour. The other girl shot back 'well, you shouldn't even be here, you don't even fit in with us - you're white', as the other girls laughed at the supposed hilarity of the situation. Grrrr.

Sorry to hear you are feeling so unwell - it can be really isolating not knowing where to get a blessing when you don't have family members in the church. You are entitled to a priesthood blessing from your home teachers, Branch President or any other worthy priesthood holder. Try and call your BP or one of his counselors, and see if someone can come and give you a blessing so you can stay home, recuperate and let your body and the spirit do the work of healing. They can take simple precautions if you are fluey (eg. don't shake hands or breathe too close). Don't feel shy or like you are being too blunt - just ask - no-one will mind, in fact I'm sure someone will be glad to help you. Hope you get well soon :)

I just looked at that facebook link - and followed 'the guys' profile. He wasn't saying anything against building the temple in Rome, just that he didn't like the design and thought it 'ugly' - surely he's allowed an opinion if he doesn't like the shape of a building. I saw that he posts many links to the 'Ask Gramps' page and clearly gains inspiration from it... so don't be too hard on him.

Yes, for sure too many people in the building is just not ok. It seems easy enough to say just build another chapel to hold everyone, but the problem here is that we have plenty of church members, but many who refuse callings so there just aren't enough willing hands to 'staff' any more buildings I guess. And yes, one of the two new wards will be in our building, but as I mentioned before it's a language based ward so it will just shift the same population around at a different time of day. I am going to see Bishop this week... I suppose I just assumed he was aware of the situation, but maybe he isn't.

I would love it if signs were up on doors in every room...just something simple like 'Please be sure to stack the chairs and leave the room clean and tidy' would be great. (oh, and don't wipe your snot on the church pews - thanks!' would be good too)

That sounds really well organised. Our ward is the last to meet and we do stack chairs, vacuum, lock up, etc. But by the time we come back the next Sunday we are left with everyone else's mess to clean up. I will talk to bishop about maybe having our fifth Sunday lesson (when he gets the whole ward together during Sunday School time) to discuss this. It will only work if the other wards follow suit... it could happen.

Thanks for the responses everyone. This is the first meetinghouse I've been in where I've seen this sort of thing, and while it shocked me at first I've learned over six years to swallow my irritation because it won't change anything. It probably seems whiny, but I really can't stand sitting in church where someone dropped dirty tissues or food wrappers, and then opening up thy hymn book to see it's been used as grafitti practice...the worst was one Sunday not long ago when I grabbed the edge of the pew to get comfortable and it felt all slimey... I lifted my hand to find a huge blob of snot on my fingers - yes - for real. Even the sacrament trays are dirty - don't the priesthood teach the boys to wash them or anything? Hearing that we might be adding another hundred or more people to the mix made me briefly want to flee to the 'zion side of town' ward where they don't seem to have these challenges. Today the announcement was that not one, but two more wards have been created, both language based, but only one will meet in the stake centre while the other is at a chapel about 20 minutes away. It doesn't look like the change will add more people who use the building, but will allow people who prefer to worship in their traditional language to do so in their own ward time-slot. This is something some of the cultural groups in this area have been praying for, for many years. That's awesome for them. Meanwhile, I guess nothing much will change as far as treatment of the building goes.

Well...am I being oversensitive or is this an allegory and are you telling me I'm being too judgmental? You've really got to wonder... it's not that hard to just pick up after ourselves surely.

Welcome :)

Just wondering if anyone else has shared a meetinghouse between four wards? A stake meeting in my area has been called tomorrow and a few people have told me the purpose is to create a new ward, and in fact there is already a new bishop's office ready in the building. My ward meets at the stake centre, but just last year we went from two to three wards sharing the building on Sundays.. it's taken a real toll on the facilities. Nothing is ever cleaned properly, furniture is scratched, hymn books are ratty and scribbled on (and most books have mysteriously disappeared), graffiti in places, blobs of blackened chewing gum stuck all over the beautiful brick walkways and entrances to the building, crockery, cutlery, long tables and plastic chairs are often 'borrowed' for family functions like weddings and never returned, and last week we found a huge hole in one of the walls. With one of my Primary classes, I had to come early every Sunday with heavy-duty cleaner to remove the graffiti off the chalk and cork boards so the little ones wouldn't have to look at what some kid 'tagged' during a youth lesson. And forget about using the bathrooms on Sunday if you are the third ward to meet... disgusting doesn't even come close. No ward ever wants to take responsibility for the mess (everyone blames the 'other wards'), and cleaning seems to be pointless with so many functions going - a family or two can clean on their allotted Saturday, then an activity happen Saturday night and when you come to church on Sunday you wonder why you bothered giving up two hours to vacuum and clean the toilets the previous day. Even the industrial vacuum cleaners are mostly broken so cleaning can be really difficult sometimes. With all the money we have in the church, why can't the bishops or stake get together and pool resources to buy some new ones? There is one photocopier for ward use in the library and it too has been broken for months. Any of us who need photocopying have to use our home copiers, ink and paper - and for us in the Primary Presidency that adds up to a LOT. Adding one more ward to the mix seems crazy to me...not to mention that our ward meets in the afternoon wreaking havoc with normal routines and hungry, cranky kids in Primary. I dread to think how much worse it's going to get. Just curious if anyone else has experienced this over-use of church buildings and seeming lack of respect for church property?

I thought you were posting about this: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2943243/A-modern-family-extraordinary-story-two-gay-dads-three-surrogate-mothers-newborn-baby-TWO-way.html I just can't get my head around all the ways we can have babies anymore.

Welcome, welcome :)

Hi and welcome :) I was baptised at 16 too, and am still the only member of the church in my family many years later. See you in the forums :)

Hi and welcome :)

Thanks for the welcome back - I hope your talk in sacrament meeting went well :)

Thanks for the welcome back - I hope your talk in sacrament meeting went well :)

Thank you very much! :)

Appreciate your thoughts on Christmas Vort - thank you. The talk went well - I related the theme of service in the church and our callings, to making service count all year round. I was glad to have the extra week to prepare. Last week the high council spoke on the same topic I'd been given... then this week the first speaker did the same, and yet we all came up with different approaches so there were fresh ideas coming from each speaker. It all worked out well :)

Thank you, nice to meet you too - I hope I don't provide too many popcorn moments - those are usually associated with drama and I really don't need any more of that

CaleB - I agree with you. This person was cruel in the way she disposed of the animal and she was immature for writing a jocular blog entry about it later. Just because something is 'ugly' or 'scary' to us does not give us the right to treat it as a non-sentient being. As others here have noted she is young and was most likely trying to be witty and entertaining on her blog - but it just comes across as annoying and puerile. Hopefully she has learned from this as I'm sure she would have had negative reactions since her blog entry was posted in July.

FFS - For F (insert expletive) Sake. I work with teenagers, I learn something new every day.