Adomini22

It is through grace we are saved- AFTER ALL WE CAN DO.

And has anyone ever read Doctrines of Salvation? It consists of 3 books, and in one of them dissects this "Adam-God" Theory. It states and shows, in its entirety, that God and Adam are distinct individuals and not the same being. It has the whole discourses of Brigham Young in it as well. If you read the whole thing, Brigham Young isnt saying that they are one and the same. You want answers? Read what is written. The books were written by Joseph Fielding Smith.

If you can find a book called "Life Everlasting" by Duane Crowther, he also wrote the book "prophecy, keys to the future", he is LDS. In Life Everlasting, there is like a whole chapter with experiences and doctrine on the guardian angels. Heavy stuff. Not stuff we talk about everyday, but good stuff. Check it out.

Good experiment. You are right about finding a solitary place to do this. That was a hard thing to do.

I enjoyed reading that. thanx for posting it.

wow, that post must have taken a long time to write.

If she was, does it matter? What is the purpose of this post? So atheist exist. Great. Elph doesnt agree with most of us regarding some matters. i actually like that. Elph doesnt even attack people on here, which I cant say the same for some.

I agree with CKs point of view. Women are co-recievers of priesthood via their husbands most of the time anyways. The Quorum of the Annointed is referred to the fulness of priesthood plus achieving "calling and election made sure". Someone previously posted this, and it was a good post. That is why I gave a couple of sources regarding such. Elph, this will always be a good subject.

I thought Snow was saying that he doesnt believe in prophets.......my bad interpretation. I apologize. Scriptures say that women are permitted to speak, and participate, but not rule. Now, we know that women are called to callings such as Relief Society President and etc, but I think we understand the meaning of such. Men have priesthood, and right now, only have the priesthood. CK, from what I interpret from your last post......... maybe you thought that the second annointing gives men the priesthood? It does not. Men have to have the priesthood before the second annointing. So you are right in your post. There are sources I can pm you, if you wish, thought I dont think this may be an important post for discussion and may not need to be pursued much longer.

Please share with us the findings of the council. Are you under the impression that I don't know what scriptures and prophets are? Do you really think that I don't read the scriptures? Apparently the point has escaped you. Prophets are men. Scriptures are the writings of those men. God is silent while men speak for God. And scriptures and prophets say.................. ? Thats right, the answer is right there. God has always spoken via prophets, just so ya know. I am also referring to the priesthood with women. What do the scriptures and prophets say? My last post wasnt clear enough.

Actually God isn't saying anything on the matter. As usual he is silent. What we have is certain men who speak and say that's what God would say if God were saying. Its called scriptures, prophets............ Do you ever read scriptures, Snow? Modern and past scriptures say this.

Interesting topic. God will do what needs to be done. As of now, I dont believe women do nor should have the priesthood.... and only because God has said as much in these latter days aka right now. Now, in the future, if women do get the priesthood....... not a bad thing at all, I harbor no ill feelings towards that responsibility. I dont know if it would happen though.

Well said. Well said. Elphie..... that was alot of info. I hope you didnt have to type that......

No problem. All I had to do was copy and paste. I love technology (when its working)...

Nice. Funny

Well, here are a couple of paragraphs. The total sources I have expand pages and pages. I am just including the last two on the annointings(and thats it), and the rest speaking of the elect. Here goes: "Thursday 22 [1846] At nine oclock a.m. I went to the Temple with L. C. C. who went thro' the ordinances of washing and anointing. Received into the Cel[estial]. Room by Levi Hancock.119 saw Pres. B. Young who shook me by the hand very cordially. He told me to take my wife and L. C. tomorrow evening at dusk to receive their second anointings and sealing. His words were as the Lord whispering peace to my Soul. I feel very happy for the blessings and privileges that I am receiving at the hands of the Lord. May I ever have the same Spirit within me, and then I shall always feel well. Staid in the Celestial Room until about 3 when I called at the Temple office. Then to bro. Wm. Clayton's. Staid about an hour. Alls well. Then went home. L. rejoicing at the intelligence she has received this day" ("Journal of Thomas Bullock [1816-1885]", BYU Studies 31:1, p. 44). "Beginning 28 September 1843, the wives of previously endowed men were given the ordinances of anointing and endowment in order to join the prayer circle, and other men and women were admitted to the Anointed Quorum each week. By the time Joseph Smith and Hyrum Smith were murdered in June 1844, more than sixty-five persons were members of the Quorum of the Anointed. Following the example of Joseph and Emma Smith, many of the members of this group received the second anointing during the lifetime of Joseph Smith, to which President Wilford Woodruff publicly testified. Others, like Sidney Rigdon and Orson Pratt, participated alone, and therefore did not receive the second anointing in connection with a spouse. Male membership in the first prayer circle included only the most prominent leaders of the Church and Kingdom of God; in most cases they were General Authorities, or prominent in the bishopric of the Church or leadership of the Nauvoo Stake, whereas the other men in the Anointed Quorum who were still faithful to Joseph Smith in the spring of 1844 also became members of the Council of Fifty" (D. Michael Quinn, "Latter-day Saint Prayer Circles", BYU Studies 19:1, p. 86). Elect/chosen In the New Testament, the adjectives "elect" and "chosen" come from the Greek eklektos. "I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal. Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day" (Romans 11:4-8). I wonder if some or all of the elect/chosen are also those mentioned in D&C 49:8, "I will that all men shall repent, for all are under sin, except those which I have reserved unto myself, holy men that ye know not of." "But behold, verily I say unto you, that there are many who have been ordained among you, whom I have called but few of them are chosen. They who are not chosen have sinned a very grievous sin, in that they are walking in darkness at noon-day. . . . Yea, verily I say unto you, I gave unto you a commandment that you should build a house, in the which house I design to endow those whom I have chosen with power from on high" (D&C 95:5-6, 8). "There has been a day of calling, but the time has come for a day of choosing; and let those be chosen that are worthy. And it shall be manifest unto my servant, by the voice of the Spirit, those that are chosen; and they shall be sanctified; And inasmuch as they follow the counsel which they receive, they shall have power after many days to accomplish all things pertaining to Zion" (D&C 105:35-7). D&C 35:20-1 states that "the scriptures shall be given, even as they are in mine own bosom, to the salvation of mine own elect; For they will hear my voice, and shall see me, and shall not be asleep, and shall abide the day of my coming; for they shall be purified, even as I am pure."

Most of the quotes are regarding to something called the "second annointing", which topic has held some facsination for me years ago when I studied it.... I wont go into any details, sorry gents, but its different than just giving women priesthood. And I still have alot of quotes regarding such saved on my laptop..... Good thread.

OK, I am not trying to get on your case here. Just wanted to give my two cents info on what you just wrote. You wrote: "My current thoughts and position on the church is this: I refuse to have my life dictated to me and led through the faults and weakness of men who think they're doing the best for me. I know whats best for me better than people at church! Therefore, I'll be the best person I can be on my and the Lords terms. Ill give service and charity, Ive devoted my life to caring for and looking after others with my career. Ill be the best wife I can be, Ill be the best Mother, I'll pray and talk to the Lord for guidance and to draw closer to him. Ill live the commandements. I'll read the scriptures as they generally teach the basics of christianity. Honesty, love respect for parents etc. Ill go to church sacrament meetings for the sacrament and to feel the spirit from the hymns. I do not wish to participate in sunday school or activities etc as you just get caught up in all the church rituals and rules that take away from the simplicity of christianity." My response: Do you know whats best for you better than a prophet? Spiritually speaking. And, what church "rituals" and rules take away from christianity?

Hold on there, I am not "wishing" that the scriptures support penal substitution, nor cramming them into comments of modern apostles. Not really. I said I have seen it happen, and that your argument isnt feeling right. Thats it. That was the extent of my post. I havent included scriptures where children spiritually suffer or learn to disobey commandments due to the unrighteousness and wickedness of their fathers, nor anything like it. Not on this post. I am stating my opinion, as is my right, and looking at everyones posts and taking it into consideration. Thats the extent of it.

Wow Snow, looks like I must have hit a nerve..... I wonder, is it that easy? No worries, I dont push. "For us adults it's more than obvious that the point is not that God lies and cheats but rather that the human authors of the OT wrote passages where in they represented God to deceive, to cheat, to be immoral, to commit atrocities, to be spiteful etc." Ah, now your view is explained. Well, thanx for taking above that 6th grade reading level for a moment.

Adomini,, I am so suprized that you claim to be LDS (I assume) when you have never read the Old Testament. See 1 Kings 22, Ezck 12, II Thess and Gen 32. BTW Adomini, you might try reading what I wrote instead of reading into what I write what you want to see. I didn't say that God lies and cheats as you falsely proclaim. I said that the God of the OT - that is as described in the OT - deceives and cheats. I didn't write it so you are barking up the wrong river. Ok, so if I read this right, you are saying that God doesnt lie or cheat, just the God in the OT..... nice. Oh, and on a minor point, its barking up the wrong tree, not river. But its ok, I know its late... I hear ya. I believe that God has always governed a universe..... I wonder what others would say.

The more I read these posts, the less I feel is right. CK, your argument doesnt feel right. Sure, I am looking at it, and I see to an extent where you are coming from, but something is missing...... Not to change the subject again, but above it was written: "QUOTE Doesn't the LORD administer punishments to the innocent children of the guilty? As we just saw, nope. Unless you have other scriptures that contradict Ex. 20:5; Ezek. 18:20; Ps. 106:6; Isa. 65:7 (among others) and Jer. 14:20 which says: We acknowledge, O LORD, our wickedness, and the iniquity of our fathers: for we have sinned against thee." Please tell me that you didnt just say that, because punishments are administered to the innocent children of the guilty. Look at the OT, where whole cities were destroyed, and not one living thing was left. Cities have children, and cities have been destroyed due to orders from God himself. There are alot of examples like that all over. Just thought you should be reminded of that small detail. Spiritually..... I see the same thing happen.

Dude.... now I get it...

Snow, I am so surprised that you claim to be LDS. Do you care to explain how God lies and cheats? Thats kinda funny you say that? How can you have faith unto salvation towards a being that lies and cheats? i cant wait to see how you will respond to that one...... God says what it is.....because he says what it is..... It is written(in the bible) that one day with God is 1000 years. Also, maybe because god said that to adam before the fall, which would still be gods time in the Garden of Eden...... Adam knew what he was talking about. Any questions?

No one is limiting God. Do you read what A-train wrote? Yeah, what he said. As for eternities, I hear that all the time with all sorts of stuff. I even hear that in fantasy books. never heard that before?