askandanswer

The promise a strange land which I will give unto thy seed after thee for an everlasting possession, The condition when they hearken to my voice. The promise: 9 Wherefore, I, Lehi, have obtained a apromise, that binasmuch as those whom the Lord God shall bring out of the land of Jerusalem shall keep his commandments, they shall cprosper upon the face of this land; and they shall be kept from all other nations, that they may possess this land unto themselves. And if it so be that they shall dkeep his commandments they shall be blessed upon the face of this land, and there shall be none to molest them, nor to take away the land of their einheritance; and they shall dwell safely forever. THe breach of promise 20 And it came to pass that I beheld, and saw the people of the seed of my brethren that they had overcome my seed; and they went forth in multitudes upon the face of the land. 11 And when they had gone through and hewn down aall my people save it were twenty and four of us, (among whom was my son Moroni) and we having survived the dead of our people, did behold on the morrow, when the Lamanites had returned unto their camps, from the top of the hill Cumorah, the ten thousand of my people who were hewn down, being led in the front by me.

This is an issue that puzzles me. My understanding is that God's gift of the land of Israel to the Jews was heavily dependent on a number of important conditions as set out in the Law of Moses. The Jews abandoned some of the central aspects of that law more than a thousand years ago and they have been practicing a false religion, worshipping an incorrect concept of God for even longer. Practicing a false religion or practicing a religion falsely was a contributing factor to the Jews losing the land under the Babylonian exile. In more recent times I would have thought that the Jews abandonment of the conditions on which the gift was made meant that the promise was no longer in place, in much the same way that the Jaredites and Nephites also lost the lands that had been conditionally given to them. Without that claim of divine entitlement, Jewish claims on the land of Israel are no weaker or stronger than other groups occupying that land. I have no doubt that God gave the land of Israel to the Jews. I am confident that that gift was conditional. I don't believe the Jews have abided by those conditions. So, as stated in the fine print of the deal between God and Moses, failure to meet the conditions on which the gift was given has led to the deal being revoked and the deal is now off. That doesn't mean that the Jews have no right to that land. But I think it means that they can't claim a divine right.

This happened 72 years before the birth of Christ. Its interesting that the name was Christian rather than Christite. In Jeruslame, it didn't happen until after His death. Alma 46 True believers are called Christians Given the prominent role of the tribe of Joseph in the restoration I think much more than a remnant was preserved. Alma 46 A remnant of Joseph will be preserved This sounds extreme. Its like killing someone over a difference in political or religious beliefs. Alma 46 Those who will not support the cause of freedom are put to death. This is another example of religious preaching causing deep social/political divisions. It really makes me think more about the idea that preaching the word is a good way to resolve social/political disunity. In somes cases it seems to but in other cases it just seems to make things worse. We see later in this chapter, in verse 35, that this is exactly what Moroni did. One difference here is that Amalickiah and his supporters wanted to kill those who were opposed to them, and Moroni actually did kill or cause to be killed, those who were opposed to him. Alma 46:2 they were exceedingly wroth, insomuch that they were determined to slay them. It might not be too far-fetched to trace Amalickiah's rise to political power, and the years of death and warefare that followed, to his leadership of those who were opposed to the preaching of the workd. Alma 46:3 3 Now the leader of those who were wroth against their brethren was a large and a strong man; and his name was Amalickiah. The strategy for those seeking power seems to be to appeal to the many people who have a small amount of power and encourage them to support a person's bid to become all-powerful, and if that person is sucessful in their bid, that person will then increase the power of those who previously only held a small amoutn of power. Alma 46:5 And they had been led by the flatteries of Amalickiah, that if they would support him and establish him to be their king that he would make them rulers over the people. I suspect there is a connection between, on the one hand, the speed with which these people turned from good to bad, and on the other hand, the efficacy of their religious teachers, priests, and practices. I suspect that better teachers and leaders might have been able to slow this turn. Alma 46:8 Thus we see how quick the children of men do forget the Lord their God, yea, how quick to do iniquity, and to be led away by the evil one. Would the early assassination of Amalickiah meet the test outlined in 1st Nephi 4? His early death may have prevented the deaths of tens of thousands. 13 Behold the Lord slayeth the wicked to bring forth his righteous purposes. It is better that one man should perish than that a nation should dwindle and perish in unbelief. Alma 46:9 Yea, and we also see the great wickedness one very wicked man can cause to take place among the children of men. One man was all it took to undo the work of many, many priests and teachers and the long-established religious and political structures that held Nephite society together? Perhaps those structures had shallow roots or were planted in poor soil or they were not well cared for. Alma 46:10 Yea, we see that Amalickiah, because he was a man of cunning device and a man of many flattering words, that he led away the hearts of many people to do wickedly; It seems as though Moroni had concluded that the preaching by Helaman and his brethren was no longer sufficient to unite the nation and protect the people and that force of arms would be required. They moved from relying primarily on the word to reliance on the sword. But then, we also see that this man of arms relied on God, as evidenced by his mighty prayer. Alma 46:13 And he fastened on his head-plate, and his breastplate, and his shields, and girded on his armor about his loins; and he took the pole, which had on the end thereof his rent coat, (and he called it the title of liberty) and he bowed himself to the earth, and he prayed mightily unto his God for the blessings of liberty to rest upon his brethren, so long as there should a band of Christians remain to possess the land

It looks like I need to pay closer attention to the readings for the week. I remembered that this week started with Alma 40, yesterday, so I figured that todays' reading, without checking, would be Alma 41 and that's what I read this morning. The happiness may indeed be endless but I anticipate that there will be different degrees of happiness. We will probably all feel happy but will everybody feel as happy as everybody else? I think its only a tiny minority who will come forth to endless misery. Alma 41 In the Resurrection men come forth to a state of endless happiness There are certainly times when wickedness seems like happiness. A lot of people seem to enjoy their wickedness. This is referred to in Proverbs 9: 16 - 18 16 Whoso is simple, let him turn in hither: and as for him that wanteth understanding, she saith to him, 17 Stolen waters are sweet, and bread eaten in secret is pleasant. 18 But he knoweth not that the dead are there; and that her guests are in the depths of ahell. Alma 41 In the Resurrection men come forth to a state of endless happiness or endless misery—Wickedness never was happiness This is imprecise. In a well-lived life, throughout that life, a person should be consistently and successfully working to change characteristics and attributes, to develop new ones and discard old ones. Presumably the ones we end up with after the resurrection are the ones we had at the time of death rather than the ones we had earlier in life. Alma 41 Every person receives again in the Restoration the characteristics and attributes acquired in mortality. It seems like the resurrection, and associated events, must have been quite a topic of discussion amongst some of Alma's associates. Alma 41:1 for behold, some have wrested the scriptures, and have gone far astray because of this thing. This verse might provide some insight into an aspect of justice. Alma here seems to be saying that it is a requirement of justice that the soul of man be restored to its body. This restoration is part of the deal that was agreed to between God and His spirit children that we now call the Plan of Salvation. The implication of what Alma is saying is that if there is any variation from the Plan of Salvation, any change to the deal that has been agreed to, such as the soul, or more correctly, the spirit, not being restored to the body, that would be unjust. This suggests that there are some aspects of justice that are local and variable, and relative to a specific set of circumstances, rather than justice being absolute and unchanging. If there had been no Plan of Salvation, then it would have been not unjust for there to be no restoration of spirit to body. However, there is a plan, based on an agreement between God and His spirit children, and because as part of this agreement our bodies and spirits will be restored and reunited, then it would be unjust if this restoration did not happen. So the unjustness stems from not keeping one's word, possibly with little or no regard to the specifics of what the deal actually is. If we took things a little further, perhaps we could look at this as an example of how God interacts with the universal law that even He is subject to. Perhaps the universal law says you have to keep your word, but its up to you, in your own local and specific context, ie, for this God, in this universe, and under this particular plan of salvation, to decide what your word is. Ether 3:12 might offer some support for this idea: 12 And he answered: Yea, Lord, I know that thou speakest the truth, for thou art a God of truth, and canst not lie. Alma 41:2 2 I say unto thee, my son, that the plan of restoration is requisite with the justice of God; for it is requisite that all things should be restored to their proper order. Behold, it is requisite and just, according to the power and resurrection of Christ, that the soul of man should be restored to its body, and that every part of the body should be restored to itself. In the same sentence, Alma refers to two different criteria by which we will be judged. He starts off by saying we will be judged according to our works. And then he immediately adds that we will be judged according to our works and the desires of our heart. So if we are judged according to our works and our desires, why did Alma start this sentence by suggesting that we will be judged only according to our works? Did the second part of the sentence, where he mentions about being judged according to the desires of our heart come to him as inspiration, as a prompting from the Spirit while he was in the act of talking? Or was it perhaps added when the record was being written, or engraved? Alma 41:3 3 And it is requisite with the justice of God that men should be judged according to their works; and if their works were good in this life, and the desires of their hearts were good, This is interesting. According to verse 3 we are judged according to our works and our desires, if they are good. In verse 4, when it talks about those whose works have been evil, there is no reference to desires. Alma 41:4 4 And if their works are evil they shall be restored unto them for evil. It sounds like everyone gets what they both want and deserve. If we all get what we want, I don't see why one kingdom is considered to be better than another. The focus of this verse is on desires rather than actions. Alma 41:5 5 The one raised to happiness according to his desires of happiness, or good according to his desires of good; and the other to evil according to his desires of evil; for as he has desired to do evil all the day long even so shall he have his reward of evil when the night cometh. There are several verses in here referring to the importance of desires in the judgement process. Alma 41:6 6 If he hath repented of his sins, and desired righteousness until the end of his days, Joseph Smith used very similar terminology for describing a very similar situation. Here, Alma is describing those who will be delivered from that endless darkness of night. In doing so he uses the phrase "These are they." In Doctrine and Covenants Joseph Smith describes those who will receive the various degrees of glory. In doing so he repeatedly uses the phrase "they are they." Alma 41:7 7 These are they There seems to be many different ideas floating around about the final judgement. Here, Alma is suggesting that we will judge ourselves. Elsewhere in the Book of Mormon, in 3rd Nephi, we are taught that the people of the American continent at this time period will be judged by the 12 disciples who Jesus chose, who in turn will be judged by the 12 apostles He chose in Jerusalem. And in other places it is suggested that Christ will be doing the judging. More recently, in his closing address during the Sunday afternoon session of October 2023 General Conference President Nelson suggested that we make our own decisions about where we will end up after this life. Alma 41:7 for behold, they are their own judges, whether to do good or do evil. Doctrine and Covenants 56:4 would seem to suggest otherwise. Wherefore I, the Lord, command and revoke, as it seemeth me good; and all this to be answered upon the heads of the rebellious, saith the Lord. Perhaps the fact that Alma 41:8 is talking about decrees, and Doctrine and Covenants 56:4 is talking about commands makes something of a difference. Or perhaps the reason why some need to be revoked is because they are unalterable. Maybe decrees or commands can be revoked or replaced but not altered. Alma 41:8 8 Now, the decrees of God are unalterable; This is another example of imprecision. How much sin does it take before it can be said that one is wicked? It seems to be that there is an ability to repent in between death and judgement. No person is perfect, or without sin at the time of death, but no unclean thing can enter the kingdom of heaven and God cannot look on any sin with the least degree of allowance. So somewhere along the way there must be a way of removing through repentance, the sins we are guilty of at the time of death. I think this is interesting. I believe that most, and more likely all, who inherit the telestial kingdom will be both sinful and happy. They are unlikely to be as happy as they who inherit a kingdom of greater glory, but I think that neither are they likely to be unhappy. I think that they who inherit the telestial kingdom will be restored from sin to a degree of, or form of, happiness. Alma 41:10 10 Do not suppose, because it has been spoken concerning restoration, that ye shall be restored from sin to happiness. Behold, I say unto you, wickedness never was happiness. There might be something tricky going on here with the way Alma is defining and using the word restoration. These verses, to me, seem to suggest that Alma is defining the use of the word restoration to mean to bring something back to its original condition, without any change. Alma in these verses seems to be talking about a restoration of our character, our personality, our traits and behaviours and desires. He is saying that whatever our character, personality, etc, we have now in mortality will be restored to us in the resurrection. In these verses, the restoration is used to refer to a process of returning like to like. I'm comfortable with that use of the word restoration. However, previously in this chapter, in verse 2 he used the word restoration to refer to the body being restored to the soul. This is inconsistent with how he has used or defined the word restoration in these verses because the body to which the soul is being restored is a resurrected body, different in many key ways from the body which we have in mortality. The way Alma uses the word restoration in verse 2 - to describe the joining of spirit to an immortal, resurrected body - is different from how he has used it in these verses - to describe a situation of returning like to like, with a continuation of the same characteristics from mortality into immortality. Alma 41:12–13 And now behold, is the meaning of the word restoration to take a thing of a natural state and place it in an unnatural state, or to place it in a state opposite to its nature?13 O, my son, this is not the case; but the meaning of the word restoration is to bring back again evil for evil, or carnal for carnal, or devilish for devilish—good for that which is good; righteous for that which is righteous; just for that which is just; merciful for that which is merciful.

Its always a numbers game. Saving 5 or 4 or 3 or 2 lives at the cost of killing one is a simple decision to make if the alternative is killing five or 4 or 3 or 2 lives to save one. Its a no brainer unless you're the man on the lever. Fortunately not having a brain is one of the benefits of AI because it doesn't have to deal with all the messy emotional aspects that come with having a brain. And if you are the man on the lever, well I hope you are very well paid for those rare moments when you may have to make a life and death decision. Just a random thought - wouldn't it be interesting if there was a direct correlation between the price you paid for the AI controlled car and the quality of the software that drove the car? The high priced cars get software that always puts driver protection above every other consideration and cheaper cars get software that always follows the road rules no matter what. I guess we already have a version of that with higher priced cars like Volvo and Mercedes offering much more safety and protection than lower priced cars such as Toyota or Chevrolet.

What did the Lord mean by this verse? I thought by the time this revelation was given, in 1839, many former close friends of Joseph had betrayed him, contended with him, and charged him with transgression. 10 Thou art not yet as Job; thy afriends do not contend against thee, neither charge thee with transgression, as they did Job.

Thanks Carb, this is the last clue that I needed to confirm my calculations about the location of the land of Antionum.

This is quite a famous, well-known and frequently used chapter among members and missionaries. Of all the chapters in all the scriptures, this is the one that is used the most to explain the nature and development of faith. Missionaries love to use this chapter when meeting with people seeking to learn more about the church.

@Backroads, you can't do this to me, you've got me sitting on the edge of my seat and now I'm probably scaring @Vort WHAT HAPPENED AFTER 1:59?!?!?!

t would be concerning if people thought that this is all there is to faith and if people accepted this explanation without thinking any further about its limitations. This definition reduces faith to being just a particular type of hope. Faith is much more than that. I think it was Joseph Smith who said that faith is a principle of power. I think it is entirely possible to have faith in something which is not true. I think that hundreds of millions of Muslims have a very deep faith in their religion. Alma 32 Faith is a hope in that which is not seen which is true— This sounds like a very class divided society, with a lot of emphasis attached to material wealth. Normally it takes a bit of time for class divisions this deep to develop. How long had it been since this society separated itself from mainstream Nephite society? And what impelled the lower classes to remain as a part of a society where they were treated so poorly? Alma 32:3 3 Therefore they were not permitted to enter into their synagogues to worship God, being esteemed as filthiness; therefore they were poor; yea, they were esteemed by their brethren as dross; therefore they were poor as to things of the world; There is no particular reason why poverty should make you poor in heart, but I understand that there is generally a close relationship between the two. I think the relationship between poverty and being poor in heart is less likely to be close if you have the gospel in your life. Alma 32:4 4 of whom were poor in heart, because of their poverty as to the things of the world The idea that you can only worship God in a particular place is a bit silly. In general, no particular place is needed although particular types of worship do require a particular place, such as a temple. Alma 32:5 5 and we have no place to worship our God; t was certainly my experience, and probably the experience of many missionaries, that the poor were more receptive to the gospel than the rich. I think that is one of the reasons why missionary work is so hard in Australia - because many people are so comfortable that they don't feel the need for anything else. I think that it is only in a society that places a high value on material wealth that people will be despised because of their poverty. In a society that highly values sporting achievements it will be the unsporting, uncoordinated people who are despised. In a society that values intellectual achievement, it will be the intellectual underachievers who are despised. Alma 32:12 it is well that ye are cast out of your synagogues, that ye may be humble, and that ye may learn wisdom; for it is necessary that ye should learn wisdom; for it is because that ye are cast out, that ye are despised of your brethren because of your exceeding poverty, that ye are brought to a lowliness of heart; for ye are necessarily brought to be humble. The idea of goodness by compulsion is not entirely consistent with Moroni's teachings in Moroni 7:6 about the importance of real intent. Alma 32:14 And now, as I said unto you, that because ye were compelled to be humble ye were blessed, do ye not suppose that they are more blessed who truly humble themselves because of the word?

Alma must have had such a great love, for the gospel, for his God, and for the people. Alma 31 Alma heads a mission to reclaim the apostate Zoramites The Zoramites denied Christ, as Korihor also appeared to, and yet it was the Zoramites who killed Korihor. The Zoramites appear to be pretty strong in their religious beliefs, I wander if the cause of Korihor's death was due to religious differences? Alma 31 The Zoramites deny Christ, This is the first mention that I can recall of idol worship in the Book of Mormon. At this point, not even the Lamanites have been associated with idol worship. Alma gives us a detailed description of the religious practices of these people, which seems to consist of nothing more than attending a synagogue and reciting a set prayer, after which he says they didn't give any more thought or practice to their religion until the following week when they did the same thing. The prideful, empty reciting of false prayers does not constitute idol worship unless we use the very broad, modern definition of the term. Alma 31:1 1 Now it came to pass that after the end of Korihor, Alma having received tidings that the Zoramites were perverting the ways of the Lord, and that Zoram, who was their leader, was leading the hearts of the people to bow down to dumb idols, So the "instinct" to gather together for religious purposes was not limited to the Church of God. There are several accounts of large scale groups of people in the Book of Mormon for religious purposes, and all of them, except for the Zoramites, were about the people of God moving from one place to another, typically under the direction of God's chosen leader. Alma 31:3 3 Now the Zoramites had gathered themselves together in a land which they called Antionum, The gospel here seems to be being used as a tool of diplomacy. This seems to have some similarity to the missionary practices of the Catholic church centuries ago, particularly on the American continent where the priests and preachers preceded the soldiers and bureaucrats and that particular version of the gospel was used to placate a people and reduce their hostility. We see from Alma 35: 3 - 11 that carrying out their plan to preach the gospel caused exactly the outcomes they were trying to avoid. Alma 31:5 5 And now, as the preaching of the word had a great tendency to lead the people to do that which was just—yea, it had had more powerful effect upon the minds of the people than the sword, or anything else, which had happened unto them—therefore Alma thought it was expedient that they should try the virtue of the word of God. This is a very powerful group of seasoned missionaries. It speaks to the hardness of the hearts of the Zormaites that such powerful missionaries had so little impact. Alma 31:6 he took Ammon, and Aaron, and Omner; and Himni he did leave in the church in Zarahemla; but the former three he took with him, and also Amulek and Zeezrom, who were at Melek; and he also took two of his sons. The Zoramites knew the word of God and had rejected it. They then accepted a set of false teachings. Then they had this group of powerful missionaries come and preach the word of God to them again and they still rejected it. It seems as if some of the possible explanations for this continued rejection of the Word are that a) there is something unappealing about the Word, or b) there is something more appealing about the word, or c) some deficiency in the hearer that makes the word seem more attractive than the Word. Perhaps if mortality and the plan of salvation were being played on a level playing field, both the Word and the word would hold the same level of appeal to all. Sometimes, when looking at how few accept the Word compared with how many reject it it seems as if we are playing with a dice loaded against us. It makes me ponder whether the overarching purpose of mortality and the plan of salvation is to sift rather than refine or perhaps to sift by refining. Whatever its purpose, I am confident that I am playing by rules that I agreed to. Alma 31:8 8 Now the Zoramites were dissenters from the Nephites; therefore they had had the word of God preached unto them. So far, this matches the religious practices of the Latter-Day Saints. Alma 31:12 12 Now, when they had come into the land, behold, to their astonishment they found that the Zoramites had built synagogues, and that they did gather themselves together on one day of the week, which day they did call the day of the Lord; And this sounds like the pulpit that features in every chapel. Alma 31:13 For they had a place built up in the center of their synagogue, a place for standing, which was high above the head; and the top thereof would only admit one person. And this sounds like a testimony meeting. Alma 31:14 whosoever desired to worship must go forth and stand upon the top thereof, and stretch forth his hands towards heaven, and cry with a loud voice, saying: Part of this still sounds like a testimony meeting, whereby people are free to approach the pulpit and state their beliefs, which are mostly the same. The difference here is that the Zoramites all held precisely the same belief as each other and that their belief, in essential aspects, are different from ours. Alma 31:15 Holy, holy God; we believe that thou art God, and we believe that thou art holy, and that thou wast a spirit, and that thou art a spirit, and that thou wilt be a spirit forever. Just as we saw with other dissenters, one of the first truths to be lost is the nature of God. Alma 31:15 we believe that thou art holy, and that thou wast a spirit, and that thou art a spirit, Both the Zoramites and the Latter-Day Saints under Brigham Young seperated themselves politically, geographically and religiously from the mainstream of their society, and neither group believed in the traditions of their brethren or their fathers. Alma 31:16 Holy God, we believe that thou hast separated us from our brethren; and we do not believe in the tradition of our brethren Latter-Day Saints occasionally refer to themselves as a seperated, peculiar people, called out of the world and chosen by God. Alma 31:16 Holy God, we believe that thou hast separated us from our brethren; and we do not believe in the tradition of our brethren, which was handed down to them by the childishness of their fathers; but we believe that thou hast elected us to be thy holy children; An interesting part truth. Some believe that Latter-Day Saints are God's elect people, on the path to being saved but we do not believe that the unelected are to be cast down to hell. There are other places that are quite nice where the unelected, and even some elected, could end up. This vaguely reminds me of the Jehovah's Witnesses belief that 144,000 are elected to be saved and no one else. Alma 31:17 and thou hast elected us that we shall be saved, whilst all around us are elected to be cast by thy wrath down to hell This aspect of their understanding of God is correct. Alma 31:17 But thou art the same yesterday, today, and forever; So perhaps they were a thankful people, or at least they were thankful to God for this one thing. Interestingly, the thing that they were thanking God for did not come from God. Alma 31:18 And again we thank thee, O God,

If Korihor believed that what he was teaching was true, should he be punished for that, or should he just be re-taught? Perhaps there may be some similarities between Korihor and Paul - both were acting to the detriment of the church and in accordance with what they believed to be true, yet Paul saw an angel and was re-educated, while Korihor was struck dumb and killed by the crowd. Alma and the sons of Mosiah were behaving in a manner similar to Korihor but they had a very different experience. Alma 30 The devil had appeared to Korihor as an angel and taught him what to say—Korihor is trodden down and dies. So now they are the people of Ammon - not the people of Lamoni, or of Aaron, or the people of Lamoni's father, or the Anti-Nephi-Lehi's but the people of Ammon. And its only now, after having read the Book of Mormon many times, that I've noticed that Lamoni's father is not named. Alma 30:1 1 Behold, now it came to pass that after the people of Ammon were established in the land of Jershon, Is the prefix Anti here being used in the same way, or have the same meaning, as Anti-Nephi-Lehi? Alma 30:6 and he was Anti-Christ, I wonder if there were any new prophecies in here or if they were just repeats of old, known prophecies. Alma 30:6 he began to preach unto the people against the prophecies which had been spoken by the prophets, concerning the coming of Christ. This seems to be very advanced and enlightened. I suspect that in England up until maybe even the 19th century, discrimination on the grounds of religious beliefs was still legal and widely practiced. Alma 30:7 Now there was no law against a man’s belief; for it was strictly contrary to the commands of God that there should be a law which should bring men on to unequal grounds. On the other hand, to conclude that all men were on equal ground simply because there was no law against a man's belief suggests a very simplistic or narrow kind of thinking. Alma 30:11 11 For there was a law that men should be judged according to their crimes. Nevertheless, there was no law against a man’s belief; therefore, a man was punished only for the crimes which he had done; therefore all men were on equal grounds. What total nonsense! God can reveal anything to any person. The Nephites knew that if you dropped a stone, the next thing which was to come was that the stone would fall. If you released an arrow from your bow, the next thing that would come was that the arrow would move forward. There were a great deal of things to come that the Nephites, and Korihor, knew of. Perhaps Koriohor's complaint had more to do with ways of knowing what would come to pass rather than the content of that knowledge. Alma 30:13 13 O ye that are bound down under a foolish and a vain hope, why do ye yoke yourselves with such foolish things? Why do ye look for a Christ? For no man can know of anything which is to come. Did Korihor provide any evidence of this or is it just a claim he asserted, with no support? Alma 30:14 behold, they are foolish traditions of your fathers. This claim that you cannot know what you cannot see leaves absolutely no room for things worked out solely on the basis of logical deduction. Most of what we know about the quantum world and sub-atomic things is about things we cannot see. This idea that you can only know what you can see advocates a very narrow, restricted way of knowing. There are more ways of knowing than just seeing, or what we can discover through our senses. And as Descarte pointed out, our senses are not completely accurate or reliable. And no doubt many Nephites knew of Jerusalem, despite having never seen it. Alma 30:15 Behold, ye cannot know of things which ye do not see; In fact, I would go further and say that Christ, and the things of the spirit cannot be known through our senses, they can only be known through the workings of the spirit. Alma 30:15 15 How do ye know of their surety? Behold, ye cannot know of things which ye do not see; therefore ye cannot know that there shall be a Christ.

This seems to be inconsistent with how the prefix anti is used in Alma 30:6. 6 But it came to pass in the latter end of the seventeenth year, there came a man into the land of Zarahemla, and he was aAnti-Christ, for he began to preach unto the people bagainst the prophecies which had been spoken by the prophets, concerning the coming of Christ.

Its a great blessing to be able to assist in someone else's conversion. Alma 26:1 behold I say unto you, how great reason have we to rejoice; for could we have supposed when we started from the land of Zarahemla that God would have granted unto us such great blessings? This reminds me of the hymn count your many blessings. Alma 26:2 2 And now, I ask, what great blessings has he bestowed upon us? Can ye tell? Some evidence seems to suggest that they were actually pretty close to the light if all it took for their conversion was the conversion of the king followed up by later preaching. Alma 26:3 3 Behold, I answer for you; for our brethren, the Lamanites, were in darkness, yea, even in the darkest abyss, Outside the salvation of one's self and own family, there really isn't much greater work than missionary work. Alma 26:3 3 Behold, I answer for you; for our brethren, the Lamanites, were in darkness, yea, even in the darkest abyss, but behold, how many of them are brought to behold the marvelous light of God! And this is the blessing which hath been bestowed upon us, that we have been made instruments in the hands of God to bring about this great work. The symbolism paints a picture of something that was standing, being cut down to the ground and separated from that which gave it nourishment and strength and enabled it to stand. This idea that the field was ripe is not consistent with the idea that the Lamanites were in the darkest abyss. Alma 26:5 5 Behold, the field was ripe, and blessed are ye, for ye did thrust in the sickle, and did reap with your might, yea, all the day long did ye labor I'm not quite into the barn yet, or not as far in as I should be. I need to get a move on. Alma 26:6 Yea, they shall not be beaten down by the storm at the last day; yea, neither shall they be harrowed up by the whirlwinds; but when the storm cometh they shall be gathered together in their place, that the storm cannot penetrate to them; We need to place ourselves in His hands. It must be an informed and voluntary act of surrender and submission. Alma 26:7 But behold, they are in the hands of the Lord of the harvest, From what Ammon says here, giving thanks to God for the outcome, I don't see how it can be said that Ammon was taking glory unto himself. Alma 26:8 Book of Mormon 8 Blessed be the name of our God; let us sing to his praise, yea, let us give thanks to his holy name, for he doth work righteousness forever. God wrought the miracles. Alma 26:12 behold, many mighty miracles we have wrought in this land, Is there a time when any of God's children are not encircled with His love? Alma 26:15 15 Yea, they were encircled about with everlasting darkness and destruction; but behold, he has brought them into his everlasting light, yea, into everlasting salvation; and they are encircled about with the matchless bounty of his love; This is not fully consistent with my note in verse 7. Perhaps on some occasions, God does snatch us into His hands rather than waiting for us to place ourselves there. Alma 26:17 Who could have supposed that our God would have been so merciful as to have snatched us from our awful, sinful, and polluted state? There is nothing that is more meaningful, more important, more satisfying and more necessary than being an instrument in the hands of God in bringing about His work. Alma 26:15 15 Yea, they were encircled about with everlasting darkness and destruction; but behold, he has brought them into his everlasting light, yea, into everlasting salvation; and they are encircled about with the matchless bounty of his love; yea, and we have been instruments in his hands of doing this great and marvelous work. This is exactly what Saul was trying to do and he went through a similar experience as Alma. As I've noted many times before, this is behaviour that I just don't understand. Why not live and let live? If you disagree with someone's belief, so what? You should not seek to interfere with that belief except in the case where you can offer them a higher belief, ie, the gospel, in which case the higher belief should be extended as an invitation for the other person to accept. Alma 26:18 18 Behold, we went forth even in wrath, with mighty threatenings to destroy his church. Crossing over to and being on the right side of the gulf is only the beginning. Its not a one-way trip, its far easier to reverse direction and cross back to the other side of the gulf than it is to continue going forward. Much easier, and much less rewarding. Alma 26:20 20 but in his great mercy hath brought us over that everlasting gulf of death and misery, even to the salvation of our souls. Here is the way whereby anybody can come to know everything. The pathway to revealed knowledge is open to all who will follow these steps. This is something that I truly believe, and why I reject the notion that our capacity to know and understand God and His actions is limited. Alma 26:22 22 Yea, he that repenteth and exerciseth faith, and bringeth forth good works, and prayeth continually without ceasing—unto such it is given to know the mysteries of God; yea, unto such it shall be given to reveal things which never have been revealed; yea, Are they still calling it a strange land even after 500 years of occupation? Do they still feel that Israel is their home land despite not having lived their for a dozen or more generations? Alma 26:36 36 blessed is the name of my God, who has been mindful of this people, who are a branch of the tree of Israel, and has been lost from its body in a strange land; yea, I say, blessed be the name of my God, who has been mindful of us, wanderers in a strange land.

I was thinking camule

So they were so angry that they had killed their own people that they decided to kill someone else. It doesn't make much sense. Alma 25:1 now it came to pass that those Lamanites were more angry because they had slain their brethren; therefore they swore vengeance upon the Nephites A great example of the wicked slaying the wicked. It seems as if the only motives for this unprovoked attack was a desire for revenge and an expression of anger/hatred. I guess this destruction could be interpreted as divine vengeance for how the people of Ammonihah had behaved towards Alma and AMulek and the people who believed on their message. If that is a correct interpretation it would raise questions about all the other times when divine justice has been delayed or invisible or absent. Alma 25:2 2 But they took their armies and went over into the borders of the land of Zarahemla, and fell upon the people who were in the land of Ammonihah and destroyed them. A similar event, in Alma 14:8 did not result in a the same reaction as recorded here. Alma 25:8 Now this martyrdom caused that many of their brethren should be stirred up to anger; and there began to be contention in the wilderness; and the Lamanites began to hunt the seed of Amulon and his brethren and began to slay them; and they fled into the east wilderness. If these Lamanites were the ones who had heard and began to believe on, and live consistent with, the teachings of Aaron and his brethren, this action of hunting and slaying the seed of Amulon and his brethren would have been directly contrary to those teachings. Alma 25:8 and the Lamanites began to hunt the seed of Amulon and his brethren and began to slay them; and they fled into the east wilderness. It took a long time, probably too long, for this prophecy to be fulfilled, considering how much trouble they caused. I'm not sure why the Lord suffered them to stay in power for as long as He did or what purpose was served by doing so. We don't know when this was written, but the idea indicating that they were still being "hunted at this day" suggests that they were not very good at their hunting otherwise they would have finished the job sooner. Alma 25:9 And behold they are hunted at this day by the Lamanites. Thus the words of Abinadi were brought to pass, which he said concerning the seed of the priests who caused that he should suffer death by fire. So after hunting and killing Nephites in the land of the Nephites, they returned to join those people who had recently been taught and coverted by Nephite missionaries. Alma 25:13 And it came to pass that when the Lamanites saw that they could not overpower the Nephites they returned again to their own land; I wonder how similar this process was to the amalgamation of the Nephites and the Mulekites. Alma 25:13 they returned again to their own land; and many of them came over to dwell in the land of Ishmael and the land of Nephi, and did join themselves to the people of God, who were the people of Anti-Nephi-Lehi. There's an awful lot that is not being said here. The missionary story of Aaron and his brethren took about 6 or 7 chapters, and this second round of Lamanite conversions gets a few verses. Alma 25:14 14 And they did also bury their weapons of war, according as their brethren had, and they began to be a righteous people; and they did walk in the ways of the Lord, and did observe to keep his commandments and his statutes. I think it would have been more useful if they had beat their swords into plowshears. They didn't renounce war or bloodshed, they just took steps that would delay their preparation and give them to time think should war ever become necessary. Alma 25:14 14 And they did also bury their weapons of war, according Finally, a group of people who understood the purpose of the Law of Moses and that it was not an end in itself, but merely a means of pointing them to, and preparing them for, something much greater. It seems as if this greater purpose was completely lost on the Jews in Jerusalem. Alma 25:15 15 Yea, and they did keep the law of Moses; for it was expedient that they should keep the law of Moses as yet, for it was not all fulfilled. But notwithstanding the law of Moses, they did look forward to the coming of Christ, considering that the law of Moses was a type of his coming, and believing that they must keep those outward performances until the time that he should be revealed unto them What modifications to the Law of Moses would have been necessary to make up for the absence of any descendants of Levi? And what was the relationship between the priests of the church, as appointed by Alma and others, and the priests required for officiating in Mosaic ordinances? Alma 25:15 Yea, and they did keep the law of Moses; for it was expedient that they should keep the law of Moses as yet, for it was not all fulfilled.

Isn't that the whole purpose of fountain pen day? We collectively gather round the bonfires and melt our fountain pens.

I'm puzzled about why Ammon would water the king's sheep using a green snake that's spitting venom.

No mention of the resurrection or repentance here. Alma 18 King Lamoni supposes that Ammon is the Great Spirit—Ammon teaches the king about the Creation, God’s dealings with men, and the redemption that comes through Christ Sounds very similar to what happened to Lamoni's father. And to Alma the Younger and to Saul and to Zeezrom. These experiences may provide support for the conclusion that intense spiritual experiences can have a physical impact. If that turned out to be a supported fact I wander if that would then help to support any conclusions about the relationship between the physical and the spiritual, or between the spirit and the body? It sometimes seems to be the case that when we give more preference to wants/needs of the body, the influence of the spirit declines, and when there is an intense spiritual experience, the ability/functionality of the body declines. One example of this is fasting, where there is thought to be a close correlation between denying the body to feed the spirit. Lamoni believes and falls to the earth as if dead. Is this indicative of a belief in some sort of divine justice and of a moral code in which some things were right and some were wrong? And does it indicate a formalised system of religious instruction being carried out across generations? Alma 18:2 Behold, is not this the Great Spirit who doth send such great punishments upon this people, because of their murders? So they knew that Ammon was not the Great Spirit and they believed that he was not a man. It sounds like they didn't have a clear idea of what their Great Spirit could do, or know of any powers that the Great Spirit had to protect a person. And now, O king, we do not believe that a man has such great power, for we know he cannot be slain. In this instance, the Lamanite understanding of who or what their Great Spirt was sounds pretty thin and undeveloped. Alma 18:4 Now I know that it is the Great Spirit; and he has come down at this time to preserve your lives, I guess if this is indicative of the kings attitudes towards his subjects - that he was willing to kill them because they stole his sheep - it might help to explain why they were willing to steal his sheep. It seemed like neither the king nor his people had a high regard for each other. 4 Now I know that it is the Great Spirit; and he has come down at this time to preserve your lives, that I might not slay you as I did your brethren. ' Its interesting that one of the early corruptions of the truth in the early days of Christianity was the nature of God and the idea that He is a spirit. It seems like the same thing, and probably from the same source, happened to the Lamanites. Now this is the Great Spirit of whom our fathers have spoken. Their religious beliefs, such as they were, do not seem to have had much of an impact on their behaviour. Alma 18:5 Notwithstanding they believed in a Great Spirit, they supposed that whatsoever they did was right; It seems to be unwise to keep bringing your flocks to a place where it was known that they could be scattered and stolen, Alma 18:7 Now it was the practice of these Lamanites to stand by the waters of Sebus to scatter the flocks of the people, that thereby they might drive away many that were scattered unto their own land, you'd think that after it had happened the first few times, they would have found a new way, or a new place, of watering the king's sheep. And if there was no new way, you think they would have taken an armed escort with them. Before Ammon it sounds like being assigned to be the shephards of the king's flocks was like sending lambs to the slaughter, but it was the shephards, and not the sheep, who were slaughtered. Alma 18:6 For he had slain many of them because their brethren had scattered their flocks at the place of water; The normality of Ammon's behaviour here, in contrast to his previous abnormal behaviour of killing 7 people in defence of the king's flocks, coupled with his comments in verse 17 create the impression that Ammon feels he hasn't done anything unusual or particularly note-worthy. If that was the case it would raise some questions about the nature of Nephite society. Alma 18:9 9 And they said unto him: Behold, he is feeding thy horses. Isn't this just standard behaviour for a servant? If the king is suprised at what should have been ordinary behaviour by a servant he must have had a bad bunch of servants. It seems as if the king here is confusing obedience with faithfulness. Alma 18:10 10 Now when king Lamoni heard that Ammon was preparing his horses and his chariots he was more astonished, because of the faithfulness of Ammon, saying: Surely there has not been any servant among all my servants that has been so faithful as this man; for even he doth remember all my commandments to execute them. The king seems to be quick to come to conclusions on the basis of limited information. Does he not even consider the possibility that Ammon might have been sent by the Great Spirit? This is an undesirable trait in a national political leader. Alma 18:11 11 Now I surely know that this is the Great Spirit, Not only does the king appear to be hasty in his conclusions but he also seems to lack courage. Alma 18:11 11 I would desire him that he come in unto me, but I durst not.

I played this clip in one of my lectures a few months back. The lecture was on culturally safe care and I used it to illustrate the point that people feel and react to pain in different ways.

I know very little about Cockney rhyming slang. Its rarely heard or used here. My grandmother was born in inner city London but I don't know if it was that tiny part of London where Cockney slang was common. About the only other example that I can recall of cockney slang - and who knows, it might be an Australian variant of Cockney slang - is dog and bone - phone.

Mosiah 29 adds some further light. 3 Now Aaron had gone up to the land of Nephi, therefore the king could not confer the kingdom upon him; aneither would Aaron take upon him the kingdom; neither were any of the bsons of Mosiah cwilling to take upon them the kingdom. To me, this verse indicates that Aaron (and we know from Alma 17 that the brothers travelled together to the land of the Nephites, so Aaron probably wasn't alone) had already started his journey to the Lamanite lands before King Mosiah announced his proposal for shift from a monarchy. The idea of an interregnum that @CV75refers to probably took place after the judges started work while Mosiah was still alive. 9 And they atook their journey into the wilderness to go up to preach the word among the Lamanites; and I shall give an baccount of their proceedings hereafter. I think the most reasonable conclusion from this verse is that they started their journey in verse 9 of chapter 28. Quite possibly, and maybe even likely, everything referred to after verse 9 - the translation of the plates, the gathering of the people for Mosiah's address, the election of new judges, and the installing of the new judges into their new jobs. all of which may have been quite time consuming, - took place after they had already left.

Thanks @CV75for your correction, I've amended the thread tag to correct this.

I vaguely remember a post about the Barbie movie and whatever you wore to that being a trial for Halloween?

trouble and strife - wife