theSQUIDSTER

I've never really understood why so many people dislike fruitcake.. I personally have never "met" a fruitcake I didn't wind up enjoying... :)

I really like anatess' suggestion. But I think you need to pray a prayer of faith for courage and forgiveness in your heart first. Then proceed to call him. The advantage of the phone is that you'll be talking one-on-one.. So if you start to get a lecture yet again you can stop him and ask him why he feels the need to do that *every* time you talk. You may also feel less embarrassed since nobody else is part of the discussion. It might be very interesting to hear what he says when you confront him about the lecturing. If I were you, I'd want to know why he'd lectured me in front of others and not in private. Was he even aware of the effect he was having? If he actually intended to give you a public dressing-down, perhaps he can explain why.. At least I would want to know.. If that's more than you feel the need or want to know then perhaps just consider wishing him and his family a merry Christmas .. Then pray for the humility to forgive and move on. As to the linked-in invite.. I don't think you're under any scriptural mandate to accept.. Accept or don't. It may not even be on his radar. Whatever you do you need to find a way to move on.. Let go.. That's a gift worth seeking for and giving to the Lord and to this priesthood brother.. If you can ultimately offer a forgiving heart then it doesn't really even matter how he responds.. (Though being a bishop or former bishop, I would hope there could be some spiritual/emotional reciprocation on his part.. But if not, hey, you're commanded to love your brother.. Not necessarily become his best friend..) Merry Christmas and may The Lord bless you and your family!

I was going to say "Fan-Freakin' Stupendous!"... but I like yours better. :) CaleB, I believe it is of crucial importance to want more mercy and less cruelty in the world. I personally abhor the killing or hurting (for sport or entertainment) of pretty much anything that lives and breathes with the possible exception of mosquitos and houseflys. I honestly don't feel much guilt about swatting either of those. Every other little creature or critter that doesn't belong in my house pretty much gets captured and carried outside. Sometimes, rather than rescue them, and to appease my wife, I'll stomp on roaches... .. but even they can't help what they are and, within reason, I think they deserve to live. Another quirky thing about myself is that I'm very much opposed to Rattlesnake Round-ups. Mormongator, I too love snakes... even..or perhaps especially the venomous ones. Beautiful animals, very misunderstood. I'm fortunate to have a wife that is understanding in this department and even allows me to keep a small speckled rattlesnake. The reason I mention these things about myself is to preface what I'm about to say: Dude... you really need to pick your battles.. :) .. with a little more discrimination... Seriously, I think this one is worth letting go of. There are so many "bigger fish to fry" than one LDS sister missionary burning a rat to death. And though I love animals, even rats... I'm less worried about the suffering of one rat than what willful killing for sport does to the spirit of human beings. I think the enjoyment of killing is a sort-of cancer much too prevalent in this world. That being said, I have to agree with the assessment of most of the posters in this thread that I don't think the sister missionary is anything but immature and dealing with a pest-control situation.. I really don't think she was killing for sport... despite some of the things she said... which I chalk up to bravado or even tounge-in-cheek commentary as, for example, bytor2112.. because she knew that she'd get a reaction from various readers... perhaps laugh-along-with-sympathy for dealing with a pest-control situation... perhaps sympathy from readers who don't especially like rats... whatever... So... take my two-cents of advice or not... Speaking out against cruelty is a good thing... I'm on your side on that one... with the proviso that it should really be about human beings becoming better and kinder first to each other and then to other species.. because we can. If that's your main contention then I think I can fully endorse that. However, if you're worried about all living things suffering in general and that we need to do away with all suffering then, I hate to break it to you, but nature is extremely callous and cruel. Nature is kill or be killed most of the time... survival of the fittest. How do you propose we change that? I know we like to watch idealized portrayals of nature as the perfect balance of things etc. etc. etc.. Look at how healthy most animals are in nature. Isn't mother-nature a great nurturer? Hardly any weak and sick languishing.... yadda yadda yadda... ahem... yes... not because Mother-nature is so "kind" ... but because the sick and weak get eaten... or are too weak to hunt and starve to death. Or, if it's not about eating it's about sex... The toughest biggest males win and the rivals are vanquished and/or killed. In the case of lions, if a male ousts another from his harem and there are cubs, that male will typically kill the cubs of the rival male. The lionesses then come into estrus quicker and he breeds with them and spreads his own genetic influence. He's the winner for as long as he can maintain his power. When he gets too old he'll be run-off by a new rival male who will spread his genes.... Survival and perpetuation of the species... Might makes right. The biggest, fastest, most cunning win. That's nature. Nature is grandly beautiful! ... and also very harsh... so... In the real world cruelty happens all over the place. What can we really do about that if not first working within our own species to discourage it? ok... getting off my soapbox now.

rfburn, Thanks for your candor and willingness to share. Each person's journey to discover truth and light is a very personal one and it sounds to me like you are well on your way to returning to the arms of the Lord. It is a struggle though and what may be very easy for one person to comprehend can be very challenging for another... and visa versa. If I'm hearing you correctly it sounds like your biggest struggle is with discernment. I hear you saying that you're feeling good feelings but you're not sure whether you're generating them somehow by yourself or if they are coming from God. Does God really exist? Or did we as humans just create him? .. Is he just a myth we created to describe what's actually taking place in our mind? Our does he EXIST.. independent of our perceptions and our thoughts? Is he really who the prophets said and say that he is? Or does he just "exist" because some of us want so much to believe that he does? Because everything we experience is filtered through our individual and limited perceptions.. can we really know or be sure of anything? What is real ? Are we who believe just happily deluded? Blissfully ignorant of the harsh truth? A cynical and vacillating politico named Pontius Pilate asked Jesus, "What is truth?" It didn't matter that the perfect embodiment of Truth was standing before Pilate. Pilate couldn't see it. Pilate was too wrapped-up in his own "reality" to see and recognize the Savior... even though he sensed there was something unusual about Jesus... his philosophy was a worldly one: I'm a sophisticated, educated, man of importance .. and as such I know that there is really no such thing as absolute Truth. It's all relative... in the eye of the beholder... How ironic... he couldn't see what was right in front of him. If we follow worldly prestige and wisdom and eloquent philosophical arguments it doesn't matter if the truth is staring us in the face. Like Pilate, we just won't see it. I don't sense this about you though... I think you're asking a more sincere "What is truth?" question. Keep doing what you're doing. As you read the scriptures and attend meetings you're already beginning to see things again that perhaps you had forgotten for a time. If you continue on that path you will begin to feel your faith and your mind expanding. It really sounds to me like it is already happening. Very often, revelation can be a very subtle thing. Sometimes it can be so subtle that we don't even realize it's happening. Here is a great talk by Elder Bednar about that. Please consider that what you are experiencing is like a sunrise. You're not quite sure it's the sun rising or maybe you're just seeing a glow on the horizon from something else... But as you continue, you will feel your confidence grow and grow. If you don't retreat, then you will, at some time in the future, know without a doubt that the sun has risen... that it was indeed the sun rising all along. But you have to continue to walk toward that light. Pray for understanding. Have you ever actually asked God if He is really there? If you have then continue to ask. He is there! He knows you and loves you! You are already feeling him drawing near to you because you're making the effort to draw near to him. Unlike the world, He will NOT force you.. He wants you to decide. When you are ready He will make things known to you that you didn't know before. Dear brother, may the Lord bless you in your sincere efforts. I believe you are coming out of the darkness... This is what you are feeling. It may take some time... but it's well worth it! :)

rfburn, Let me ask you a few questions if I may... (Please don't feel like you have to answer these questions with a written response. If you're more comfortable keeping the answers private, that's fine. But please consider the questions... Perhaps write the answers just for yourself. :) ) Some questions about feelings: Who is your favorite person in this world? Do you love them? Are you sure? How do you know? Can you trust those feelings? Are they evidence of anything? Or are they just brain chemistry at work? Something else? If you do love them, would you love them no matter what? If so, why? Some questions about intellect: Who is your favorite person in the world? Why? (What are the "logical" reasons why?) How do you know they're your favorite person? Are you sure? Can you trust your reasoning? What if they turned out to be a different person than you originally thought..? Would they still be your favorite person? If so, why? If not, why not? --- My conclusion from such questions is there's an element of faith inherent in EVERYthing... There is value in both intellect and emotion. We need both.. But most importantly ----> we need AGENCY. At some point we decide what we're going to believe and hold on to... We may not know everything yet... but we can get to the point where we know enough to make a decision. 2 more final questions: WHY,,, do you choose what you choose? What do you hope to learn or receive by your choice?

Some might say about offense that it is *taken* .. not given. That being said.. It's probably all-too-often a rationale that's used by those who care very little about what affect their words can have upon others.. or who even enjoy the idea that they might provoke others.. If I may, I'd like to pose a related question: Is it ever ok to speak the truth with *the intent* to offend? And, if so, under what conditions or circumstances would one do that? (For example.. The terrorist "caliphate" that doesn't really want to be called "ISIS" .. but prefers to be called "Islamic state." A part of me REALLY wants to call them "ISIS" hoping that might just be a little bit offensive to them.... Is that so wrong? . )

Welcome! But you've actually been here for a little while.. Longer than some of us.. :) You need an avatar.. Maybe something related to your username..? There are a number of words that start with "crypto." Is there a story behind your name?

display window familiar expression in a stranger

piano solo laughter and sadness in the same notes

..not to put too obtuse of a point on it.. But..Perhaps a chat with your bishop is needed to set things ... Ahem.. Uh.. "Right" ..?

If this were Facebook, all you would need to add to this is: "Post this if you agree. I'll bet 95% of you won't..." I just love it when people try and beat others into submission to their viewpoint.. And guilt anybody else who may already be on their side, but who still might not be "passionate" enough about it..

There is great wisdom in trusting in The Lord *first and foremost* and withholding judgement and resisting the temptation to feel we're duty-bound to reach the same conclusion that somebody else reached. We may greatly respect them, love them, trust them, find their reasoning highly compelling, logical, believable, etc. But despite all of that, we need to receive our own witness. And we need to hold to the witnesses that we've already received. As TFP points out, what about archeological evidence or lack of "sufficient" evidence, what about "proof" ..? How often do we hear somebody saying they've proven a point and so the only intelligent, logical, reasonable thing for us to do is to accept their argument.. and their conclusion.. As though a cunning and/or a well-crafted argument is enough to establish truth. Truth is independent of arguments and logic. Truth is not established by our limited understanding of it. If we truly believe that our Father is the embodiment and source of all truth then it is essential that we learn to completely trust Him and believe that he has the ability to help us reach the *right* conclusions .. despite our weakness, limited understanding, and impatience. It's ok to admit, as Nephi, that you don't "know the meaning of all things." All things will be revealed in time. Hold fast to the good and take Pres. Uchtdorf's advice to first "doubt your doubts."

I agree with Vort. I think for reasons of trust and loyalty you're going to have to tell your wife at some point. But some wise and inspired counsel is almost certainly needed. You're in a covenant relationship with your wife and the Lord. That means to me that there should be no secrets.. And also that this is serious. The Lord may well have already forgiven you. But what about your wife? She may well need the opportunity to do so as well. But... As others, i'm just giving what I believe to be my best advice with my limited understanding. I'm not your bishop, and so, am not entitled to specific revelation in your behalf. Your bishop is. That's his stewardship.

How about different things challenge different people differently? (How's that for confusing?) :) What is a huge challenge to one person is much less of a challenge for someone else.. and visa versa. That being said, I would still give that the label of testimony.. Which is, I believe, the point that TFP is making. But sometimes we use or understand the word testimony as a sort of all-or-nothing word.. The implication being we either have a testimony or we don't, rather than that we could use some added strength to our testimonies in certain areas. I'd like to pose a question which I believe to be relevant to what we're discussing. Is there a difference between having a testimony and being "converted?" Let me put it another way. Can we have a testimony but not be converted? Example: The apostle Peter had and expressed his testimony that Jesus is the Christ. Nevertheless, he was later admonished of The Lord, "When thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren."

I love stories of healing. Thank you, so much, LP. A couple links that I found that I wish to share: 1. "Shaken Faith Syndrome" 2. Fan the fires of your Faith - "Let me be clear on this point: I am not asking you to pretend to faith you do not have. I am asking you to be true to the faith you do have. Sometimes we act as if an honest declaration of doubt is a higher manifestation of moral courage than is an honest declaration of faith. It is not!"

LP.. Leslie.. that's powerful ... "Touching His Robe" ... Love it! Pure inspiration from our Father straight to your bishop. Have you gone on too long? Not a chance! I think most of us following this discussion would love to hear whatever you feel inclined and comfortable sharing.

That doesn't surprise me. I didn't know that though. :) Who wrote it? Was it a remake of an oldie? (or... uh... an OLDER oldie? ) Thanks for your kind sentiments. My questions were meant mostly rhetorically... But in the spirit of one of President Uchtdorf's recent talks from conference... "Lord, is it I?" ... Honest, self-examination of our relationship with our Father and His Son, the Savior of all, should be a part of making the world a better place, methinks.

I'd be a Time Lord.... If I could just find a Tardis I'd be all set. Hey, wait! If I keep my covenants maybe I will be a Time Lord! ... and I doubt I'll need a Tardis... also no multiple periodic regenerations needed... That only happens once, thanks to our loving Older Brother... :) The pessimistic view, and based on some family history, I'd almost certainly be an alcoholic... possibly a drug addict... No word of wisdom to shield me from genetics and predispositions in parts of the family on my mother's side. I am by nature a "dabbler" in things.. so I suspect, absent the gospel, dabbling would almost certainly lead me to various addictions and ruin...

How about a quote from a profoundly confused individual ... lyrics from one of his songs: If You Wanna Make The World A Better Place Take A Look At Yourself, And Then Make A Change (Michael Jackson's "Man in the Mirror") Michael was undoubtedly confused about a great many things in his personal life... but I think he got this one right. At least that's where it starts. Personal responsibility. None of us can save the world. but... Somebody already paid the price for all the pains, wrong, suffering, injustice, etc, in the world. Michael didn't say anything about that in his song... so... his advice is not an all-inclusive answer. But when you recognize that you do have a choice to do things... change things about yourself that you could do better... that does affect the world. But how do I know if my choices are making the world a better place? What if my choices are making the world a worse place?

I really love this. ..to be "healed from the hurt of it." Great comment. Might I add, people heal at different rates for different reasons. I have a friend who joined our church. In his previous life.. before the church, he struggled with drinking too much. When he was deciding to whether to join or not, he prayed that the Lord would take away all desire for alcohol from him. He's never taken another drink after that day. He testifies that the Lord completely removed that from him and he no longer has any desire to drink anymore. That was his healing process for this particular issue. Apparently he'd learned all he needed to and all that remained was for him to ask. He asked and immediately received! I have another friend, a lady I used to hometeach, who has also struggled with alcohol. She attends 12-step meetings and is doing what she can.. I believe she's doing her best. But she's relapsed a few times. Nevertheless, she is still attending 12-step meetings and is in recovery. I don't know for certain if she's prayed to the Lord to take this away from her or not. My guess would be that she has... It seems to me that just about any of us who struggle with things pray for that.. "Lord, if thou wilt, remove this cup..." Sometimes that is enough... Other times there are other reasons why the Lord does not immediately take it all away. Only the Lord fully comprehends what it is that we actually need to learn and how it all needs to play out. We, however, "see through a glass, darkly" (1 Cor. 13:12) ... which is why we are commanded to exercise faith. Ok... what about another person most of us have read about... The apostle Paul. What was his "thorn in the flesh" ..? I don't think that necessarily matters ... The point is he had this affliction, whatever it was, and the Lord would not immediately remove it. Paul asked 3 times.. But the Lord had other plans for Paul. Here's a great little article talking about thorns in the flesh. So...whatever the Lord's timing may be.. however the process goes.. if he heals us now and completely removes the thorn or gives us strength to bear it and learn... either way there's healing going on when we trust in the Lord.

TFP, Traveler... I appreciate both of your insights in this discussion. I'm sure you're both wrong. ... and more importantly I'm sure you're both right.. just as all the rest of us trying to muddle our way through this mortality. Good thing we're not on our own. We'd never make it. Not a chance. Don't feel bad if you can't convince one another. It's not like you both didn't make a valiant effort. Is it fair to say I think you both give your best efforts to speak to the best of your ability what you believe and what you've learned and what you hold sacred? If so, what else matters? I don't get the impression either of you are trying to con each other into or out of an opinion. You're both honestly speaking your mind the best way you know how. So what else matters? Ok... I'll get off my soapbox now. :) If that came across as patronizing or condescending that really wasn't my intention at all. You both have some great insights on things and have given me a lot to ponder. Likewise all the rest of you.. Much respect and much appreciated.... my brothers and sisters. :)

SeminarySnoozer! Young lady, if I've told you once then I've told you a thousand times... stop forcing people! If you force people, whose plan is THAT REALLY ... after all.... hmmmmm? could it be... oh I don't know... SSss... ... I kid... I kid... I just find it funny that TFP feels he reluctantly has to take a side... Or that's what it sounds like.... TFP, nobody's forcing you ...That's not "how we roll..." Honestly, and all kidding aside... I think Vort said right when he said we're probably WAY out of our depth on many of these things. I don't know if mortal minds even have the capacity to fathom the mysteries and glories of our Father, who he really is, and how he REALLY rolls... which is probably part of the reason we're gonna need an upgrade on these bodies/minds before we can learn and grasp some of the things of eternity and our Father... a personage of which Brother Joseph described as defying "all description."...

I hope everyone is enjoying the discussion. I'm enjoying it. It's not my intention to hurt anyone's feelings, but this discussion is reminding me of something that happened between my wife and one of my granddaughters, Hailey. When Hailey was a little younger and was learning to speak she would sometimes pronounce things in cute and funny way. One day she was singing the song "Twinkle twinkle little star." This is what happened: Hailey singing: "Twinkoh Twinkoh littoh stahwah.. How I wondoh whatchoo ahwah.." Mimi and Grampee both start to laugh. (We just couldn't help our selves.. It was just so dang cute!). Hailey gets a little upset that we're laughing. Mimi: "Oh, sweetheart.. Don't be sad. We're laughing because we love how cute you sing.." Hailey's not quite convinced. I try to give Hailey some encouragement: "It'll be ok, Hal. Why don't we all sing it together?" Hailey stops sniffling and thinks about my offer and then nods, ok. We all begin singing: "Twinkoh Twinkoh littoh STAHwah.. How I wondoh whatchoo AHwah.." Hailey bursts into tears again. Mimi and Grampee stop singing. Grampee: "What'sa matter, Hal pal?" Mimi: "Oh, sweetie, what's wrong?" Hailey looks at us with exasperation, then points her finger at my wife accusingly: "Mimi! It's NOT Twinkoh Twinkoh littoh stahwah! It's Twinkoh Twinkoh littoh *STAH*wah!" .. Kinda resembles some of our discussions in this forum..

If I may chime in on this... Of course the ideal ... the goal... is to both choose the right together... to BOTH choose what is most pleasing to the Lord. No? But we're talking in HUGE generalities here. .. and I think we're talking right past each other... Traveler, are you saying what TFP thinks you're saying? TFP, I don't know if he's saying what you think he's saying... It sounds to me like you're talking about two different things. TFP, "our responsibility to DO right" IS right. But is it really always clear what that is? I see a danger that our responsibility to DO right could get mixed up with our desire to always BE right. Which, it sounds to me, like what Traveler is talking about. It is possible that I'm completely misunderstanding both of you... ... oh well...

Despite our both wrestling with semantics, I think we're basically in agreement on this. There really is only one place where we can receive of a fullness. That is supposedly our goal if we've been through the temple.. so it behooves us to not take such a great promises lightly. Perhaps this is why there's more spoken about the celestial than the other places. Our Father really does want as many of us there as are willing to make and keep our covenants so we will be able to be there. I hope I'm able to be there. I hope you're able to be there too. :) It is true that if we take things lightly and/or "settle" for something less than what we could have we will regret it. Will we be allowed to wallow in that regret for years? Centuries? Eons? Eternity? Gosh... I sure hope not. But I honestly don't know. From the way the scriptures word things it is my understanding that such would not be God's doing. Even "eternal punishment" or God's punishment has an end, right? But the scripture doesn't say anything about self-punishment ... Will that happen in a degree of glory? (I can totally see it happening in outer-darkness.) Is that the natural result of anything we hold back from our Father? That we wind-up using it against ourselves for as long as we feel so inclined? If we kick a little bit against the pricks during our mortal probation without repenting fully will we wind up kicking ourselves for eternity or for a time? I doubt such would be allowed or even in our nature in the state of fullness... But elsewhere, I don't know.. Kind of a scary thought to me. What are your ideas?