laronius

You are a parent. Why do you do it?

Yes she is correct in recognizing the disturbing trend now days of conforming the gospel to support whatever people want to believe. It is a devious misdirection of the adversary. But this misdirection can exist in varying degrees and it started with the death of the original apostles. Their deaths lead to a famine of revelation through authorized servants, revelation that kept gospel understanding inline with Christ's true teachings. As a result it required a restoration of priesthood authority and divine revelation to the Prophet Joseph Smith. All churches without those things are teaching, to one degree or another, an altered form of the gospel. Doreen Virtue is simply calling out some of the more obvious ones. I hope she continues her search and doesn't stop, thinking that her personal interpretation is sufficient.

While some of her views may be based in truth not all sources of gospel teachings are of equal value. I do believe God works with us wherever we are at and that He may be working with this woman to reach certain individuals. But at the end of the day she has not yet received or accepted the fullness of the gospel and therefore cannot fully lead others to Christ. She must come unto God, like we all must, by receiving of His restored word as taught by those set apart by the priesthood of God. That is the source of truth we must all look to.

He clearly had not reached the age of accountability but it makes me wonder: if we sin but do a poor job of it is God more likely to grant mercy? 🤔😄

This does make for an interesting contrast when considering his experience to someone like Steve Young's. A person may say that Steve has remained a faithful member and been a great ambassador for the Church and they may be completely right. But the principle of opportunity costs is alive and well in the gospel. And while it is impossible to know what Steve Young's life would have been like I think it is completely fair to say that some blessings have been forfeited along the way as he played in the NFL. And I don't mean to point a finger at him, we all have forfeited some blessings at times because of the choices we make.

To your true statement I would also add a caveat (sort of). Because we are judged according to our understanding of His word the Lord is at times willing to look past sub-optimal observance of His laws, such that what is deemed mercifully "acceptable" at one point in our progression may be unacceptable later on. But you are completely correct in that it is observance of the law according to God's understanding that is the one true way and the point we need to ultimately arrive at. And there is no playing stupid in God's kingdom.

Your desire to observe the Sabbath Day is commendable. But ultimately how you observe it is between you and the Lord. Having said that I think you already recognize that attending the event isn't the optimal way of observing the Sabbath. But if you do decide to go I would highly recommend finding ways to honor the Sabbath to whatever degree you can.

The first thing that comes to mind every time I hear of financial prosperity is what is their trial in life then? Because I can think of many that to me would be worse. That thought helps keep my wealth seeking in check.

As a rule I have found the Saturday evening adult session to be very fulfilling. But I'm with you on the Sunday session. I'd rather just have regular church.

The words "sufficient for your needs" comes to mind. Of course that leaves a lot of room for interpretation. But that's the real test I think, how we choose to interpret it. And my guess is that for a person who truly seeks to consecrate themselves their interpretation will change over time.

That's a good catch and makes perfect sense in light of the fact that as John the Revelator pointed out "the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy."

Those are some interesting thoughts. Perhaps they don't need vicarious work performed on their behalf because they will have the opportunity to enter into those covenants themselves. There is definitely a difference though between being worthy and being godly. Little children are automatically redeemed from the Fall and therefore justified or worthy. But sanctification is a process wherein we become Christlike and it is not a state that can simply be granted someone. Every heir of all that God has must work towards this Celestial condition in order to achieve it and I don't see why those who die before accountability would not be under the same condition.

I'm not arguing that we should be doing things different than how we are at this time. Rather, I'm curious what if anything will be required of them in relation to the Celestial Law that we covenant to obey. Are they recipients of eternal life? Yes. But they still have to abide the conditions of eternal life. I am interested in whether that will take covenant form as it does for us and if so why is it different than for those who live to the age of accountability.

Perhaps that is something that would be taken care of in the Millennium. But until then there are other ordinances. I'm just curious how such things are viewed by God considering the fact that we don't perform ordinances for them (outside of being sealed to their family).

Why are ordinances/covenants not performed on behalf of deceased children? I get that they are automatically redeemed from the Fall but are those covenants not still essential for exaltation?

When it comes to the degrees of glory it isn't an all or nothing, heaven or hell situation. As the word degrees implies there are levels of faithfulness. While not as faithful as those in the Celestial Kingdom, people in the Terrestrial Kingdom do live parts of the gospel, they are in fact described as honorable. Whether that degree of faithfulness is representative of the covenant of baptism was just a thought starter I was throwing out there. The main point was that the covenant of baptism, while essential, is not sufficient for exaltation.

I'm pretty sure that's how the Nephites escaped from Lamanite captivity, just waited for high council Sunday and those Lamanite guards entered into a coma-like sleep.

If it happens on high council Sunday it might liven things up a bit.

I think we see a great example of how this works when Christ visited the Nephites. In 3 Nephi 17 we read: 14 And it came to pass that when they had knelt upon the ground, Jesus groaned within himself, and said: Father, I am troubled because of the wickedness of the people of the house of Israel. Then he prays great and amazing things for the people, after which he says: 20 Blessed are ye because of your faith. And now behold, my joy is full. I think even within the divine characteristic of omniscience it is possible to be aware of something without always dwelling upon it.

Everyone inherits a degree of glory contingent on the law they are willing to live. The covenants made in the temple make up the Celestial law a person must obey to inherit that kingdom. Those unwilling/unable to live that higher law will simply not "accept" those ordinances performed on their behalf. Though, I'm not sure if there are covenants designated for the lesser kingdoms, perhaps in the next life. I guess you could argue that baptism is the covenant of the Terrestrial Kingdom. That might make for an interesting discussion.

Exaltation is defined as a fullness of salvation. So "without exaltation" would be "a lesser degree of salvation".

In the scriptures it is likened to childbirth. As soon as the child is born the pain is forgotten and joy ensues. I imagine something similar is experienced when we are born again. Though I'm not sure what the gospel equivalent is for the baby getting it's bottom slapped. 🤔

Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. And finally, I cannot tell you all the things whereby ye may commit sin; for there are divers ways and means, even so many that I cannot number them. Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. I am the way there shall be no other name given nor any other way nor means whereby salvation can come

I totally get the idea of developing a relationship with God through prayer and I understand how He withholds blessings from us until we ask as part of that learning process. What I haven't truly come to terms with is how praying for others works. Would God withhold a blessing from another person because I don't pray for them? Would Alma the younger have been left to his life of sin had his father not prayed earnestly for him? Today I am fasting for a friend who is having a serious surgery performed today but I found myself wondering last night wether God's plan for her would be at all influenced by the prayers of mine and others. We are taught that somehow it does but I'm trying to reconcile in my mind the justness of such a principle. I understand that it's not just justice but mercy too, but if a successful result of the surgery is in the best interest for my friend would not God grant that anyways?

Welcome. While there may be those who are less interested in dating a convert I think there is a much bigger issue with dating in general aming the younger generation. There are some pretty amazing women who just don't get married (Sis Nelson for example for most of her life). I can't say I know why but you gotta have faith in the Lord's plan for you, no matter the circumstances in life. All blessings are promised the faithful.