laronius

Your post made me immediately think of Alma the younger. I'm sure his parents had many of the same feelings you do despite all the attempts they must have made to help him. Eventually though it was the Lord that brought him around. I think it's important to remember that you can't save your grandchild anymore than you can save yourself. Have as much faith in God's plan for them as you do in His plan for you. That doesn't mean you won't worry and fret some because that's part of the experience. But continue to be there for them, finding some peace in the knowledge that the Lord does know what needs to happen and when.

This same "nuance" you refer to may be related to the fact that the Holy Ghost seems to not have been fully operational during Jesus' mortal ministry. There appears to be something about His physical presence that overrides standard procedure. There are times while pondering that I'll address Heavenly Father directly seeking inspiration without officially praying "in the name of Jesus Christ." It's more of an open ended request than a formal prayer and I have often received the sought for guidance. I of course do so with the recognition that it's only through the merits of the Son that I have access to the Father and I would never make this a habit in my formal prayers as Jesus has clearly outlined how those should go. But when Christ's death on the cross split that veil in the temple he was essentially giving us direct access to the Father. I mentioned in another post about going through a temple session with the words being shown in the video. What I had never even considered but makes total sense is that it is not the Savior we converse with in the end but our Heavenly Father. Inspired prayer is done under the influence of the Holy Ghost telling us what to pray for and made efficacious through the merits of Jesus Christ but it is our Father in Heaven with whom we communicate. I think the role of the Savior as Mediator, pleading for us before the throne of God might give some the false impression that our prayers are only being relayed by Jesus to Heavenly Father but I don't think that is the case. Part of the reason we take upon ourselves the name of Christ is to allow us to approach the throne ourselves with Jesus at our side. I have considered whether divine investiture could be taking place in this respect but that thought just doesn't feel right.

There is another possibility in this if we ignore the exact wording of what the Lord says, or at least reported and then translated as having said, and instead focus on what exactly happened that might be different from all of the previous encounters. The Lord did indeed show himself to others including at a meeting of Adam and many of his righteous posterity in which it appears the Lord appeared unto many of them. But in all the instances prior to the brother of Jared it seems the Lord intended to show himself and did so. With the brother of Jared it appears that the showing was not caused by the Lord intending to do so but purely by the faith of the brother of Jared. If that is true then this particular type of showing would have been first.

A discussion about the young rich ruler was not my original intent but it's definitely good subject material so I will jump in. I have personally always appreciated Bruce R McConkie's treatment of this story and even had part of it written on a sticky note in my scriptures. But here it is in whole: There came to Jesus, on a certain occasion, a rich young man who asked: “What good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?” Our Lord’s answer was the obvious one, the one given by all the prophets of all the ages. It was: “If thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.” The next question was: “Which commandments?” Jesus listed them: “Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.” Then came this response and query—for the young man was a good man, a faithful man, one who sought righteousness: “All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?” We might well ask, “Isn’t it enough to keep the commandments? What more is expected of us than to be true and faithful to every trust? Is there more than the law of obedience?” In the case of our rich young friend there was more. He was expected to live the law of consecration, to sacrifice his earthly possessions, for the answer of Jesus was: “If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.” As you know, the young man went away sorrowful, “for he had great possessions.” (Matt. 19:16–22.) And we are left to wonder what intimacies he might have shared with the Son of God, what fellowship he might have enjoyed with the apostles, what revelations and visions he might have received, if he had been able to live the law of a celestial kingdom. As it is he remains nameless; as it might have been, his name could have been had in honorable remembrance among the saints forever. The sentiment of that last paragraph always gets me. Whether or not the young rich man was good or otherwise, I think this invitation as interpreted by McConkie is still legit in it's application to all of us. The Lord truly offers us everything we could hope for but it requires everything from us in return.

I definitely don't mean to imply that we immune to the influences of the Telestial world. Until we die we are forced to deal with it. But in some spiritual sense we are able to rise above it or as Pres Nelson mentioned we overcome it as we come unto the Lord. Though your comment would make for an interesting discussion in relation to life during the Millennium.

Alma 12:22 Now we see that Adam did fall by the partaking of the forbidden fruit, according to the word of God; and thus we see, that by his fall, all mankind became a lost and fallen people. If it was true that there was absolutely no other way for Adam and Eve to have children other than to transgress God's commandment then how is it proper to state that the fall caused all mankind to "become" a list and fallen people? Yes, Adam and Eve were the original mankind but I'm pretty sure it's use in this verse is not limited to them. So, if "became" implies another possible state of being other than fallen then why does Eve specifically state that is was only through transgression that it was possible?

Do we know what exactly was written on the first set of tablets given to Moses? In my mind I have always just associated them with the "fullness of the gospel" as taught by Jesus but when approached by the young rich ruler about how to gain eternal life Jesus essentially told him to keep the 10 commandments. So was the first set same as the second or were they different? JST Exodus 34:1 And the Lord said unto Moses, Hew thee two other tables of stone, like unto the first, and I will write upon them also, the words of the law, according as they were written at the first on the tables which thou brakest; but it shall not be according to the first, for I will take away the priesthood out of their midst; therefore my holy order, and the ordinances thereof, shall not go before them; for my presence shall not go up in their midst, lest I destroy them. 2 But I will give unto them the law as at the first, but it shall be after the law of a carnal commandment; for I have sworn in my wrath, that they shall not enter into my presence, into my rest, in the days of their pilgrimage.

This verse seems applicable here. Alma 40: 12 And then shall it come to pass, that the spirits of those who are righteous are received into a state of happiness, which is called paradise, a state of rest, a state of peace, where they shall rest from all their troubles and from all care, and sorrow.

Yesterday in the temple while doing an endowment I happen to be in a session where the dialogue was displayed on the wall for deaf people. This was really fascinating as it made me pay more attention to the actual words used. One of the things that stuck out to me (without trying to get too specific) is at one point, not in the Garden of Eden, Adam and Eve are referred to as being in the Terrestrial world where previously they were referred to as being in the Telestial world. I was always aware that part of the endowment is transitioning from Telestial to Terrestrial to Celestial but I never picked up on the fact that post-fall Adam and Eve (and I guess us by inference) existed in what was labeled a Terrestrial world. Now clearly this was not meaning the earth had changed back to paradise so it must be referring to something else. It makes me wonder if this "rest" we speak of is that world referred to, a sort of spiritual paradise that allows us to separate ourselves from the Telestial world we live in. Though I would be happy to discuss other interpretations.

Are you implying that appendixes are so unnecessary that they don't even rise with us in the resurrection? 🤔

Maybe that's why Elijah was taken up, he seem to have the unique skill of burning water. Might come in handy. 😁

Yes, tithing is really just a beginner's course in recognizing that all (including ourselves) is God's. Being wise stewards is more like graduate work.

Does anyone have Joseph Fielding Smith's book The Signs of the Times? I came across a reference to that book that intrigued me and I was curious if Smith expounded more upon it than what was quoted. It said page 41. He is talking about the earth being burned at the Lord's coming. Here is the quote: "Somebody said, ‘Brother Smith, do you mean to say that it is going to be literal fire?’ I said, ‘Oh, no, it will not be literal fire any more than it was literal water that covered the earth in the flood.’" Of all the interpretations of the flood I've heard this is the first that implies there was no rain involved at all.

I am finding that most gospel doctrines are like the proverbial iceberg where only a small part is obvious to us, not necessarily in terms of complexity but rather a less obvious depth in meaning and broadness in application. So while we might label them as "primary answers" needing only basic understanding to activate, there is so much more to them that even well seasoned saints can feast on their study and application. Or even have their ship sunk by them if not taken seriously. 😳

His power I would think would only be decreased per person by an increase in the number of righteous individuals, if that is an accurate way to view it. Of course, once he wins people to his side I think that would increase his influence or perhaps magnifies it. D&C 19:5 Pray always, that you may come off conqueror; yea, that you may conquer Satan, and that you may escape the hands of the servants of Satan that do uphold his work.

Something that stuck out to me from Pres Nelson's Sunday morning talk: "One crucial element of this gathering is preparing a people who are able, ready, and worthy to receive the Lord when He comes again.... I call upon you, my dear brothers and sisters, to become this righteous people." The prophets rarely talk of the Second Coming in terms of timetables but this seems pretty indicative of where he believes we stand in relation to that event.

It's possible that the temple in Jerusalem is not constructed by our Church at all. It may very well be constructed as a Jewish temple which will then be turned over to the Lord's church after he comes to them. This quote might support that scenario. Journal of Discourses, Wilford Woodruff 2:33 "When the Gentiles reject the Gospel it will be taken from them, and go to the house of Israel, to that long-suffering people that are now scattered abroad through all the nations upon the earth, and they will be gathered home by thousands, and by hundreds of thousands, and they will rebuild Jerusalem their ancient city, and make it more glorious than at the beginning, and they will have a leader in Israel with them, a man that is full of the power of God and the gift of the Holy Ghost; but they are held now from this work, only because the fulness of the Gentiles has not yet come in." This man may be a member of the Church or maybe not, but it's possible that he is inspired to lead the Jewish people to rebuild their temple. It's clear that at the Lord's coming the Jews to a large degree have not yet converted to Christ.

I totally get your sentiment. The problem is that God doesn't manifest his power needlessly. So if there is a great manifestation of power it's generally going to be because there is a great need. Or in other words before Christ appears in all His glory Satan must first "appear" in all his evil. And we know how that felt to Joseph. So unfortunately we don't get to skip to the good part.

The thing that immediately comes to mind is the promise that those who go to the temple would come out "armed with power" and would you know it, coincidences of all coincidences, we have prophet trying to build a temple practically in everyone's backyard and telling us we better go often. That, I would say, is a major source of that power. Now how that power becomes manifest is something that isn't quite as clear.

It makes me think of the law of opposition. As the power of Satan increases in the world, the power of God must of necessity be increasingly manifest in the lives of the faithful. Not only will this serve to strengthen His people but it will allow them to become lighted "cities upon the hill" to which others can look. I think the Lord wants to force the issue of choosing between Him and the world but that can't happen if all people see is darkness. There must be a clear choice and the lives of the saints must clearly reflect what God has to offer.

The absolute necessity of having the Spirit and receiving personal revelation has been a hallmark of Pres Nelson's tenure as prophet and it seemed to be especially mentioned in this conference. "In coming days, it will not be possible to survive spiritually without the guiding, directing, comforting, and constant influence of the Holy Ghost." This principle has always been a key element of the restored gospel but it makes me wonder what specifically the "coming days" hold as to require such intense focus on it now. Clearly the world is becoming more corrupt. But it appears that on the horizon events will unfold that will put great pressure on any testimony that is not being constantly reinforced.

For those who follow Pres Nelson on Facebook he posted this this afternoon.

How did your home weather the storm?

Yep, agreed. It really ought to be at the heart of our approach to living the gospel. Then there would be a whole lot more ministering going on and a whole lot less administering required.

After Pres Oaks' talk I was half expecting Pres Nelson to announce some law of consecration type program or something. 😀