the Ogre

LM:Good rant. The original quiz did include rape, sin against the H-ly Gh-st, murder, adultery, robbery, and homosexuality (though written in a more kid friendly way). None of those even made it into the top three. The winner and runners-up for worst sin as picked by Utah Seminary kids in the 1980s are listed in my quiz in as kid-friendly a way as possible (BTW: no-one as yet has picked number one, but numbers two and three have been picked -- so, good on growing up). Late Edit: Sorry all, number one has been picked, number has not been, and number three is tied for first so far.

Maya, I don't know. If I remember right, sexual sin is something we don't have to die for to find repentance. I think murder is number two, then sexual sin. Keep in mind, I separate deaths on the battle-field, accidental death, and self-defense from murder. Murder has its own special spot.

LOL, thank you very much. B.

Oh my, definite sins of the RS home-making meeting gone dangerously awry (almost as bad as carrots and raisins in jello and Republican Party organizing).Very dang funny, thank you so very much.

Dr.T: I think this one has problems. I am familiar with Thaddaeus as Lebbaeus or St. Jude the brother of J-sus. I have heard of a connection between St. Jude and Simon the Zealot, but I can not be sure about it. This is a rather arcane area that I have not studied as well as some. I cannot be sure that Lebbaeus and Simon the Zealot can even be grouped together, but Lebbaeus and Thaddaeus can be linked as the same person. I'm more, but I am not sure the two in (d) can be paired.

When did he start making blue-jeans?

Good idea, but in the meantime add to the meyhem of some of the current threads.

Gator (not the U of Florida variety I hope): Welcome to LDS.net. Divorces blow. Right versus righteous . . . yuck, I hate what that indicates. I hope it turns out well. Aaron the Ogre (I wonder if this counts as a standard welcome)

Jim, thanks for the opportunity to point something out specific to LDS doctrine. Latter-day Saints believe the ultimate sin is denying the given-witness of J-sus Chr-st by the H-ly Gh-st. It is a difficult sin to commit. According to LDS thought, one must have a witness much like that of Nephi in 1 Ne 11: It is a very difficult sin to commit, however there are those who have. It is as extreme a situation as looking into the blazing heat of the noon-day sun and denying that it is there.(sorry about the long post)

Please, as an expert on time, take all you want .

Uhhhh . . . well, as one who complains about Utah Mormons, I have to admit I'm a Utah Mormon and sometimes I'm not very nice (in fact, I hate being nice, it seems so superficial, but I practice). Maybe when I am saying things like that I am only speaking into the mirror or only recognizing what is common in most societies. On this site, I know some great Utah Mormons. I could be wrong (but I reserve that admission for a later date, I want a more aggregate movement towards "niciness" than is happening now).

Interalia:I don't know if your condition is now a blessing, but maybe one day it will be (I don't know, I'm an idiot, but I hope one day it can be). RE: Delusions: I think you are the last one of us posting today who carries delusions about your condition and the future before you. I think you know extremely well what is before you and the challenges and pain to come. You have my full support, but absolutely no envy. Dude, I know you'll succeed where I probably would have failed (I'm already a fat, jaded, red-haired-step-child social-schizoid whose only prospects are women who like losers). You are well informed and you know others sharing the same condition. I hope you succeed and lead those you know to greater happiness. Go for it man! Aaron the Ogre

Uhhh . . . d. They are all the same person.

I do not think Obama describes it as infanticide. I think abortion is, but many others do not. When the President is discussing abortion, he is discussing a woman's reproductive rights. He is a feminist and prioritizes the rights of the mother to decide when she will have children over the russian-roulette of birth control. In the face of declarations like abstinence or celibacy, a feminist will respond that is not a woman's right to be sexually active is a decision that she alone can make. He would also believe that those who would believe a woman must be celibate are those whose opinions are the result of a parochial, patriarchic society unable to truly understand the rights of a woman and women in general, even if those who hold those beliefs are women. He might feel those who disagree are the products of societies, educations, and religions that are patriarchal and archaic who are themselves victims of an oppressive environment. To some, I am a misogynist pig because I oppose abortion. To some I am a liberal fiend, nay child of satan, because even though I oppose abortion, I agree most American culture is the result of an oppressive, patriarchal, parochial middle-class more interested in maintaining the status quo than considering dissent and differences.

Yeah, I think the church is depending on youth leaders a bit more than they are comfortable with. I remember going over it with my kids when the book first came out. When they "got it", they explained it to the other youth to the consternation of some of those leaders.

I should have as well. I was on my evening bike ride and it hit me that Peter was first. Silly me, but I do love the gang bit.

When I was in highschool, I took a survey in seminary that asked about the worst sins. It listed twenty different sins. The survey was very clever. When the results came back I was very surprised. So were the teachers. That survey was back in 1984. The worst sin was not denying the witness of the holy-ghost. I am not going to tell you what the kids back then picked because it could skew the above quiz. That was 25 years ago, I wonder if things have changed. These are some of the categories, but I deleted the more obvious ones for a more mature audience. It would be a no-brainer for most of us. If you could, elaborate on your answer.

Bad: Dude, I know about wards not approving of my daughter. I still approve of her though (she's 19, so she's not that interested in my approval, but I still think she is way cool). I guess that's what is important. Welcome to LDS.net. Post often and make friends. Aaron the Ogre

Still missing "broken heart & contrite spirit", the L-rd says it has to be there. I also do not buy the idea of "works" only if you believe in it. We're Latter-day Saints; "works/ordinances" are important.I think the nature of the formula is flawed. I think you need to start looking at a matrix of some sort. Maybe a multivariable derivative.

Bah, as I suspected. But the Sons of Thunder is a cooler name anyway.

James and John, the sons of Zebedee, the Boanerges Boys or the Sons of Thunder (they are an off shoot gang of the Caesarean West-Side Crips).

Right! Conversion. Conversion is missing from the discussion. I don't think there needs to be a formulaic progression at all. I think what is needed is a recognition for importance of each component. What about repentance? Where does it fit in the whole scheme of things? Eventually we'll get to home/visiting-teaching and taking your turn as a nursery-leader/scout-master. Ooooop: what about enduring to the end????

Nope. So, Broken-heart & Contrite Spirit (3 Ne 9.20), then Hope & Faith & Charity (Moroni 7), followed by meekness (Moroni 7 and D&C 19.23)? Am I missing something?

I don't think it matters what causes homosexuality. I don't think the church has a position (beware: quibble mice alert). I think one makes a decision to engage in homosexual behavior, but that is not the same as what made you that way.What I do think is important is, if you think your homosexual lifestyle is a problem, then what are you doing about it? This is the same for other categorical sins. I had a problem with alcoholism, I thought it was a problem so I did something about it. It is never easy. In fact it is very hard to leave lifestyle related sin. It can be done, but it takes commitment. The problem for you is your children and temple marriage. What are you going to do about them? Everything seems pretty one sided right now. What are you going to do for your family and the lives you have hurt?

Abraham of course. I love the Jagger option. I wonder how many tribes he has created?