the Ogre

I voted for both him and dubya, but both those dudes said some funny things and make one wonder how they ever made it to public office.

Pam, you are brilliant. I totally love this quote.

Right (and nice post by the way), but we still don't pray to him.

It's continuing. Evolution moves in "fits and troughs", but even the "fits" are very slow.Have you ever watched the Xmen movies, that's next.

Yup, I always do (though I occasionally miss through typing too fast).

No problem dude, it was after reading some of your posts that I decided to "Ogre" the thread.

I think "Grace" is everything. In modern revelation we learn of "Grace with works" or "Grace through works", so I also believe in works. I think the sin your preacher is discussing is "Pride in our works". I believe I am required to do certain works (temple work, genealogy, missionary work etc), but these works are to assist in the salvation of others. However, it does not matter how much work I do, if I do them only for the sake of pride. These works must be carried through by humility and love. After all is said and done, it is by the "Grace" of the S-vior's atonement that I and anyone else is saved. I have no problem with your pastor. I doubt he's LDS.

That's fine, but the press has reported he has a learning disability. They might be lying, but I doubt it (in this case).

I've heard this might be true, but I think you need to provide evidence to prove it.

No, I said I am dealing with your methodologies. Your inability to dialogue intelligently or honestly. I have not attacked your beliefs, only lightly touched on LDS doctrine. I dealt with your beliefs rarely: "From reading what you are writing, I can tell you do not understand parts of the NT like most mainstream Chr-stians, not to mention how Latter-day Saints understand them" and in-reference to your understanding of John 1.1. I looked at what you just wrote and can see you are not interested in honest dialogue . . . so, lets not look further. I'll leave it to the several amateur/hobby-apologists on this site.I am not interested in posting like Earnie the thousands of links outlining the research you obviously need regarding Protestant and secular doubts about the Bible, particularly Paul. Regarding the scripture blob you wrote, more cliched anti- bilge. I am not interested at all. Converse with yourself, that is all you are interested in. You have yet to illustrate an honest interest in true conversation ("eternal souls", oh my head). Oooo . . . have you ever heard of the JST?

Boy, I can tell why you went with "glow_in_the_dark_girl". I love your profile. Welcome to LDS.net.

Oh yeah, DCFS needs to do a snatch and grab here. Daniel has a far better chance of survival with the chemo than without. This is one of those times the parents are behaving criminally.

I know people who pay their tithing and have lost their jobs, homes, and many possessions. Its a part of a recession. It effects everyone. What's good is that still pay their tithing in faith, knowing the L-rd has not forgotten them.

I asked the same question when I was reactivating and the answer was . . . AA.Yes, being sober sucked for years after I became active. Have you ever taken a test in the BYU testing center sober? I have, it's terrible. On some of those long physics and chem tests, I wished I could have brought in a "water" bottle of some sort.

I doubt this, for a few posts you brought up some cliche Tanner stuff.

You're a modern Chr-stian, that means you also feel sections of the Bible are redundant: I doubt you practice the Law of Moses. From reading what you are writing, I can tell you do not understand parts of the NT like most mainstream Chr-stians, not to mention how Latter-day Saints understand them. If you read the Book of Mormon, you will find most if not all of J-sus' NT teachings repeated or reinforced, but you would be challenged to find the same for 75% of what Paul had to say. Many modern non-LDS scholars feel most of Paul's letters are forgeries or subject to manipulation by 3rd century Chr-stians and/or Chr-stian authorities (see as an example among hundreds of others: Former fundamentalist 'debunks' Bible - CNN.com ). TO say the least, the texts pertaining to Paul are controversial and as such Latter-day Saints have an article of faith to explain why we might not be too concerned about what the bible says (AoF #8) and rely on modern revelation (please note, I love the Bible, but if you think LDS are alone doubting 100% of the bible, then you are up in the night).I dislike trying to rectify Latter-day Saint doctrine with the Bible. As evidenced by this thread, some of Johnny's posts don't always make sense. I would rather not even bother. The key to what we believe is a belief in modern revelation. Learn to deal with it, we're not going to change just for you. Regarding the troll thing, it is accurate. You are not active in the LDS.net community. You never post to other threads other than this one and the older one (oop: I guess I might be wrong, I just read through that ginormous tithing post . . . oh my, please just place a link next time). You pretend to be concerned, but constantly attack.

Dude, I think you have begun to formulate a great plan. When you meet the missionaries and go to church, post us back with more questions. I am quite excited to hear how it goes.

JPL: Welcome to LDS.net. Ummm . . . I know a woman who joined for that exact reason: to please her husband. She had doubts going in, but eventually formed a strong testimony. She became the anchor for that family and is the Stake Relief Society President in the neighboring Stake (I live in Orem, so she only lives a few blocks away). I know a young man who did the same thing. He married my aunt (she's my age, so she's my friend and almost a sibling as well). He struggled his entire life, but could not fully follow the word of wisdom (he smoked). He died earlier this year a very unhappy man. He was never able to take her to the temple. Yes he went to church every week and he had a testimony of sorts, but never could welcome the church completely. Next year, my dad, her oldest brother, is going to help her get his temple work done (he requested it) and have their five children sealed to him. I think it is a personal choice. I think you could have a great experience, a lukewarm one, or a sad one. I would support you on anything you did. I love the church, but I would rather you were happy. I know you can find happiness as a member. If you follow this forum long enough, you will learn that many members have doubts, but they keep trying. Aaron the Ogre

Carl, yours is a story that illustrates perfectly the effects of anger on a person. I am sorry dude. Welcome to LDS.net. Post tons and make friends. There are loads of great people here.

You know what, Missing, one of these days a doctor is going to scare the crap out of him and then you'll be justified. Wait for that day and then smugly make him all the healthy stuff you want to now.Ooooo . . . I wonder how the "I told you so" fight is going to go.

Hilarious. LOLNow you are the ardent-clothed harlequin come forth to bandy secular-humanism dancing like a graceful ballerina in front of some and a witty musketeer to skewer discontent lightly with a blunted foil under the guise of religious debate. Juggle that truth, fact, and faith, ignore the bowling-pins, chain-saws, and goslings. Can you see them: my tears of mirth. Ah me. That was funny. I never said my beliefs don't clash with the Bible, I said modern revelation makes whole sections of the Bible redundant. I love the Bible. It is one of the greatest pieces of literature in the world and often the most beautifully written, but if I want truth, I listen to a living prophet. It is that simple. The Bible cannot justify every LDS belief. Any who try are going to twist and juggle just as you are. It isn't worth it. LDS beliefs are too plain and simple for that, but most of all they are based on modern revelation. A prophet, speaking on behalf of G-d, does not need to rely on Biblical precedent. Because they do not, I do not. I prefer to stay current. My search for truth, though reaching back to the Bible, seeks the current word of G-d. Bwahahahaha . . . I'm still laughing.

Blue:I don't want to, just don't base your testimony on it. I stay up to date on my reading. I have to, my dad and one of my best friends is nuts about the stuff, but neither base their belief on it. My dad is a hobbyist who used to do Army Counter-intelligence throughout Central America and Northern South America in the 70s and 80s. My friend is an anthro-major at the Y. It is interesting, but I do not think it is religiously valuable. Just my opinion. Have at it and enjoy yourself. Aaron the Ogre

What a cool word. Thank you PC.

You wonder why I think you are a troll. Here is a definition that describes you perfectly: You are no devil's advocate and you do not support LDS beliefs, doctrines, or practices. This is why I think you are a troll.

Kenny, I apologize if I was implying you were. I was addressing BJW.Sorry.