the Ogre

I'm a moderate and I wasn't snookered. I didn't vote for him. As far as radicalness, I think Hannity and Rush are far more radical, just like Keith Oberman is far more liberal than the president. I do not think Obama is particularly moderate like Clinton sort of was, I think the country is just exhausted by the failures of the spend-o-holic conservatives and just wanted a new face even if they knew the new face would spend even more. Honestly, regarding fiscal-conservatism, Bush-Cheney was a joke and McCain deserved to be ignored by the nation as a whole by simply associating with them. You want someone to blame, blame the idiocy of the Republican Party Leadership for nominating yet again another old man who lacked the ability to communicate like they did with Bob Dole.

I don't know. I think Joseph Smith might not have revealed to the church as much, but I believe he knew. I believe some of our current GAs know. So why won't they just tell us? Because it ultimately doesn't matter. Don't get me wrong; I know it is interesting and often quite exciting, but in the long view of the gospel it is only a Red Herring. Eventually we will all know, but by then it will matter even less.I think they might not tell us thinking we are missing the point.

Pam, I think they do anyway.

I think it is being in an activist/works-based religion and still having to know it is by grace that we are saved. Step by step, precept by precept, ordinance by ordinance, and finally grace. It is hard to not look back at all the good works, ordinances, and a life of study and not feel pride for the works of one's hands. This is the challenge.

False.

Except for the truly delusional, the state of the US economy is in the toilet, however, I do not think the bubble has completely burst. I think we are going to see more hits to the economy in the next five years so that we will celebrate if and when the Dow hits 7500 as a two year high. What happened to the Nasdaq needs to happen to the entire market and in particular the housing market. Prices now are too artificial and need severe market adjustment. The US government can not stop the coming depression, it can only slow it down.

2 cents: I wonder if it is a broken-heart and a contrite spirit that comes first?

I lived in Korea when Shawn Bradley was on his mission in Australia. I could tell he was having problems with the Asian press and poparazzi. He was constantly on Korean TV and in the sports papers. I could tell from his answers (and his comp's) that he was more than a little annoyed.I think there is a distraction when a famous kid goes on a mission. But what do you do if he or she really wants to serve? Would a service mission work?

The issue, IMHO, is: can the state supersede the rights of parents and the freedom of religion in order to save the life of a minor child? Many people are going to be offended by this story and others like it (like the couple of similar stories here in Utah). In extreme cases like this, I side with the state, however, I do think the time will come that most health choices for children will be taken out of the hands of parents. This is the biggest concern I have. It is similar to the idea of mission creep. It starts as one thing and then morphs into another.

Mom: Can you see the problem? He just keeps going and going. There is quite a good answer to his question from a non-LDS cultural anthropologist that I saved to my hard-drive (it deals with urban-studies -- that's why I have it), but I am not going to post it, because he is not interested in answers. He is only interested in sowing discord and dissent. Considering the methodologies of "concerned trolls," your (very kind) intervention won him a point (see second quote above). This has nothing to do with doctrine, it has to do with pointlessness. the Ogre

Mom:I know no rules have been broken, but this thread has gotten to the point of absolute pointlessness. It needs to end. Thanks for jumping in, I always enjoy reading your posts. Aaron the Ogre

The biggest problem is that there are no mods logged in right now.

Try to get this thread closed . . . I can't stand trolls and I cannot stand people who spew nonsense non-stop with out consideration for others. I don't tolerate it in person and there is no reason to tolerate it in a forum.BTW: the only truth I see is your continual confirmation of what you are.

Thank you for the cute story. I think the only inappropriate time to pray is on the street-corners to be seen of men.I lived for a while in Brooklyn, NY. There seemed to be quite a bit of this with Chabbad. I have also seen it in South Korea with Korean Pentecostals. The only other time I think is when visiting a non-LDS home and offering a spontaneous prayer without permission of the resident of the home. Otherwise, I can't think of a time when prayer wouldn't be a good thing, especially if it is done in private and done when one has time on their hands, but I too have prayed while driving or riding my bike (I usually pull out my iPod in those cases as the music can be a distraction).

I have been hoping a mod would step in for the last two days when it became obvious that we are merely the entertainment devices for a troll.This thread hasn't gone anywhere since page 27 at least. I think it is time to lock it.

Like I said, AJ is a troll.

You know I spent an hour reading all those posts. They were great. What I like is Ben's sense of humor over the whole thing. He is one of my favorite people here.

I don't know byte, I think Inter has a huge challenge, but if he identifies as male and he has the parts (though confused and unhappy parts that are not doing what they are supposed to), then he is male.Interalia, I think you have an unbelievable challenge. I heard about AIS a few years ago in South Korea, when a person who thought he was female, found out differently through a mandatory pre-middle school physical. This poor kids had to face all his peers in a boys-only middle-school when up to that point he had always been a girl. He even looked like a girl. The story made the national headlines and stayed there for weeks. I was very ashamed for the kid. I have no advice except to say: keep at it. You do what you need to. The L-rd will know how to sort whatever byte thought would be confusing. You do what you have to and more power to ya. You have my support.

So, make a point.

Nice edit.Remember that thing about modern revelation (1)? Know: Nephi was quoting a different text than did the KJV translators (2). What you are doing is a classic, tried and true, and very cliche anti- ploy (3) (didn't you read bytor's post? C'mon keep up). Points 1, 2, & 3 prove exactly what I said earlier about you not paying attention or being an honest discursive partner.

To what end? To show him up? I don't think it was the actual scripture, but your application that is skewed. C'mon, comparing 2Ne 14.5 and the Parable of the Vineyard is a stretch (unless you are LDS and understand our thoughts regarding works).BTW: Nephi was quoting Isaiah in that section referring to the last days. Nephi might have had a different text than do we (Laban's brass plates v. the KJV). So . . . what of it? Your quote is a perfect example of cliched anti- junk. Instead of looking for content, they attack the translation. The Dead Sea Scrolls were different than the KJV, too . . . so?

I think you are right, but AJ refuses to acknowledge the Great Plan of Happiness. I asked him to look it up, but instead he started looking at anti- sites. Genius.His definition of damnation involves charcoal and lighter fluid.

Okay . . . and, are you castigating us to . . . the firey hot place?Oh my, I think you're upset. BTW: when you're quoting that verse you are making an argument for works. Do you believe in works or grace?

Yup, this parable lies at the heart of LDS doctrine, but I doubt you know the how of it or even care? The penny/denarius paid is the same. Put your shoulder to the wheel and be about it.

Sorry, no credibility in this post.Next time go here.