the Ogre

It's a fictionalized example of what I've heard in church recently. My kids blurted out and the bishop had to cover the smile on his face.

I would like to bury my testimony that the church is true and that H-venly F-ther has blessed my family when my scrapebook shop--Pebbles in My Pocket on State Street just across from the University Mall--was added to the national scraping tour and that my daughter Tiffany has been accept to BYU where she will be able to find a husband and eternal companion. . .

Hi PC,I am not a nice person, nor do I try to be (though on other BBSs I can be absolutely horrid). I'm an Army brat and Army Vet that has dealt with bigoted chaplains and local pastors since I was five until I got out in 1990. I have no patience for people who think it is their role to teach me the error of my ways through deception. I believe you are free to believe what you believe. I believe what I believe and do what I need to. My family and I have experienced bigotry from mainstream American and International Pandenominationals in many forms often with results that have hurt us and so I tend to be assertive (the best defense is a good offence). I believe in the redemption. I believe in the Pentecost (though I might understand it differently than do you). I believe that the apostasy still lives with us today in the spirit of deafness many Christians (Mormons too, I dislike that word--it's hatespeech--but I use it to indicate cultural Mormons regardless of their membership or non-membership in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints) practice regarding the inspiration and direct revelation humanity has received from heaven in the traditional canon and in the expanded canon Joseph Smith received and in the inspired words directed to multiple congregations LDS or not from the millions of churches, pulpits, street-corners, and tree-stumps around the world. I believe in grace and works. I believe in being saved, converted, and exalted. I believe in LDS evangelism. I believe in doing good to all people, but I do not believe people should be misrepresented by the use of jargon that might not be familiar to them. I know Latter-day Saints are Christians (even if not everyone acts like it all the time). I know Latter-day Saints worship the exact same Messiah worshiped around the world and even by Mainstream American Protestants. Every knee must bow and every tongue must confess and then act on such confession. I hope what you have said in the section I quoted above is accurate, but many of your past posts do not reflect your good intensions. I will endeavor to bridle my heavy-handed tongue and envision what the world would be like if the deafness the world experiences disappeared (particularly since the moderators would appreciate it and I don't want to get kicked off this site). Aaron the Ogre

My kids think we should get rid of the TV holding up the new one (also purchased at the Provo DI).

Hi Belmar, I've had similar problems. My youngest son was born two month premature at 23oz. The doctors at UVRMC are amazing in that he lives (he's 16 now). The problems he has had to deal with are huge. In 2002, my ex decided she needed a change and left. We haven't heard from her. So he has layered health and emotional issues because he thinks its his health/developemental problems that scared her away. He is not very ill right now, but has been going to a speach therapist for years. Becuase we lived in South Korea for a number of years, the local High School keeps pressuring him to go to ESL classes even though he is a fluent English speaker and so all the kids treat him like he's some type of foreigner. My ward has never been very open to us particullarly after I decided to quit my job at AMEX and returned to school even though I've never relied on church for assistance (the year supply has run very low however). I am active however (Robby doesn't have lung desease, but there was a period when the DRs wouldn't let him leave the house as a precaution so we couldn't always be active meeting goers) and love church even if I only have a few friends there and no calling. I guess all I can say is hang in there. My bishop is nice, but a lot of the women in the RS have been a hassle (DCFS is so familiar with me and my family that they never come out to my house any more when one of my neighbors call, they just call or interview the kids in school to make sure I'm not beating them or starving them) and constantly complain that my kids need a real mother at home (I don't date--no time: school, work, kids, homework, wasted-time on the internet) to the bishop and stake president (I'm supposed to go to an over-30s single ward, but I refuse to until after Robby [the kid in question] goes on a mission). I don't fit in and so I get a lot of odd pressure from people who need to butt out or just grow up or find other hobbies (their own rotten kids). Rob is a great kid just as your daughter is. Church is hard on people who have circumstances that turn them into the nail begging to be hammered into place. It is not The Church, but the people in it. I do not have a testimony based on the insulting, nosy, small-minded people in my ward, I have a testimony based on the witnesses I have received, the miricle of the goodness native to my children (even if they can be annoying--all teenagers [16, 17, 18]--they are exiciting, interesting, and fun--and all at a Ward Youth Conference), and the love I have felt from G-d and his S-n. You'll make it! You have no choice. The problem with the Bishop is temporary, but the gospel will always be there. Aaron the Ogre

Hi Malarie, I cannot recommend anything about dealing with family other then by saying: 1) Be honest with them, don't sneak around. You were honorable with them when you told them you were going to get your endowments, but they did not reciprocate by being supportive of your temple marriage. 2) Listen always to what they say, but when what they are saying is manipulative, devisive, or just wrong remember who it is you are married to and then after consultations with him inform your family of the decision that will be best for you and your husband. 3) Continue to be as involved in their lives and be as supportive as you always have, but never compromise on the beliefs you have. I love my parents, but they have not always had me and my kids in mind when making pronouncements and decisions. I love them however and listen and obey when what they say makes sence, but there are times when their wishes fall lower on my list of priorities then what the L-rd wishes or what is good for those who live under my roof with me. Aaron the Ogre

Love it. So my above post should have been: ah appreesheeate an' thank yo' fo' yer advice. I've been lurkin' fo' a couple of weeks befo'e tryin' t'git involved an' ah find PC an' a couple others t'be patronizin'. ah's glad they is interested, but their didackicism is sometimes hard t'take an' thet they is clichéd examples of [people] who feel Latter-day Saints is igno'ant zealots/savages who need th' wise guidance of older brothers. Aaron the Ogre

Oh sure, one lives across the road.

Here's one of the guys the above link linked to: http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/dmilam1.html

LOL, BTW, you have described my downstairs neighbors perfectly and their pick-up in the parking lot hasn't moved in years and all the tires are flat. Aaron the Ogre

Dude,This is an exciting thread. I've enjoyed reading it. Maybe when they are done, they'll let us know where the Outer Darkness is and current residents. Personally, a lot of this sounds like certain passages of Kabbalah. Aaron the Ogre

The following was posted in the political forum: . . . "trailer trash" is a lifestyle and attitude, and you don't have to live in a trailer to be "trailer trash." And uh. . . do try to recycle more of that trailer trash. . . we've only got one world, y'know. . . I was wondering how one defines "Trailor Trash." I guess my question also comes a little loaded as I just read the last Ensign and wondered how "Trailor Trash" fits in with the article by J. Robert Nelson "Burbank Blvd." I don't think J. Robert is a GA, so I think it would be okay to discuss the article. To begin with, I think I'm "Trailor Trash" or better yet what Jeff Foxworthy calls "Red Neck." I don't listen to country music, but I'm fairly unrefined and am often pretty froward in my approach to politics, religion, literature, and philosophy. Does frowardness make one "Trailor Trash"?

One Bourbon, One Scotch, and One Beer by George Thorogood (I was a naughty boy in my past) Casey Jones by Mississippi John Hurt Caddilac Blues by Lightning Hopkins Come Dancing by The Kinks Panama by Van Halen All I Wanna Do by Sheyl Crow

WordFLOOD (nice handle by the way B)): I close friend of mine who had challenges in the church voluntarily ODed. I and friends were hurt because we were working hard with her. She left two beautiful children and devestated parents, siblings, and grandparents. We don't know what happened to set her off, but I find Yediyd's post quoted below quite beautiful: I am sorry for you and for your loss. I hope you will be able find some truth through your grief. Aaron the Ogre

Ben,I appreciate and thank you for your advice. I've been lurking for a couple of weeks before trying to get involved and I find PC and a couple others to be patronizing. I'm glad they are interested, but their didacticism is sometimes hard to take and that they are clichéd examples of people who feel Latter-day Saints are ignorant zealots/savages who need the wise guidance of older brothers. Thank you again. Aaron the Ogre

I love that even if there are negative or rude people in church, the church itself is not. I love the redemption and modern revelation (like the WoW). I love that the Savior died for us and then gave us a mission to not only receive his redemption, but help the world find it as well.

I'm sorry I could not read on yesterday, but looking into the statements you made yesterday I think the two above need consideration. I am not ignoring the other statements you made, rather I either do not have an opinion, they simply do not apply to the current discussion, or I agree, so please do not feel I am leaving them out spitefully.The first thing I would like to point out is the audacity of saying no "Christian church argues that G[-]d is silent" on an LDS site. Are you one who claims Latter-Day Saints are not Christians? Second: the second line contradicts the original about Christian consensus regarding the silence from heaven. Oh, I understand what you are saying about personal revelation, the roles of teachers, evangelists, and the righteous in general, but what about leadership from heaven for all humanity? Has the Christian Canon been updated by more than just Latter-Day Saints and Jehovah's Witnesses and the number of modernized translations of the canon? Please let me know where I can go for modern revelation regarding racism, middle-class oppression of women, minorities, and the poor and hate-speech? I know where to find references to all those in the NT and OT, but what about when it is okay to wage war and when it is not? Oh and what about if G-d just wanted to say pay attention to a few finer points? What if G-d wanted to say WATCH OUT FOR DRUGS, smoking is kinda stupid, alcohol often leads to problems in the home, abuse, and disease, and to tell women that Paul might have gotten it wrong about speaking in church? Or that he was simply a man of his times and that the times have changed? There are hundreds of reasons to receive modern revelation beyond what I have listed here that might not have been contemporary issues in the first century Mediterranean Rim. I'm sure G-d would have things to say, but for some reason the Christian consensus is that heaven is silent and that those who believe otherwise are not Christians and thus heretics. I'm sure you did not mean any of the above and that actually most likely we are all Christians (except for Jason the follower of John Hick) and as Christians we ought to be united in an effort to help the world better itself and claw itself out of the pit it is digging for itself. I certainly hope this is the case. I'm sure you do as well.

I'm glad you would answer like PC did, but were those answers or simplistic reversals? If G-d has spoken to humanity in more than the cannon, where is it? And if the cannon is enough, then how do we treat contemporay issues that might not be mentioned directly or clearly. And then how do we deal with the contradictions.Silence? I'm glad you are satisfied with an appearant silence from heaven. I wonder if he is satidfied with how modern events are unrolling. He always had something to comment in the past, why would he ignore us now. And: oh yeah, we are still living in a period apostasy, a period of silence, and a period of deafness (present company accepted of course).

So then by your reasoning it might be said we are still in the dark ages. I think it is good to think of the dark ages as the silent ages where G-d did not actively converse with humanity.If it is true then that we are still in the silent ages, then the period of apostasy in question at the beginning of this thread still exists and began when the last apostle received revelation from heaven. I love this line. I think there are many Mormons who would agree with you.

Yes - it's wrong, very wrong. Did he include details? That might be the only thing wrong in the prayer: "Please forgive Sister Smith for going on too long in her talk that basically said nothing and only showed the investigators dumb she was and the rest of us are by association," or "Please forgive me for eating those three dozen Albertson's doughnuts," or "Please forgive my wife for nit-picking the bishop every night before we go to bed while she's flossing her nasty yellowing teeth."

1. Having kids is such fun 2. Maybe the Home teaching stats will be better the next time around 3. I want everyone to have purple skin, or maybe periwinkle 4. This Earth is just too pretentious 5. Play lots of Scrabble (answer to last question) 6. I want to help people invent deodorant before the wheel 7. BYU could be the National Champs more often that way 8. Money would grow on trees 9. Find out why flies really exist 10. Spent more time on the Internet (also answer to the last question)