Edspringer

What I believe about the subject is that intelligence and agency co-exist with God. Intelligences can act for themselves according to the laws instituted by God (D&C 93:30). The exercise of agency leads one to take part in the law or act contrary to it. So, in this perspective, those intelligences that acted in opposition to God’s designs did it for themselves, according to their own will and knowledge. These became the sons of perdition and, since opposition is an eternal principle for the proper exercise of agency, God allowed Lucifer and his followers to tempt mankind. This is how I see things.

“If ye have faith and doubt not…if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done.” (Mathew 21:21). "For the brother of Jared said unto the mountain Zerin, Remove — and it was removed. And if he had not had faith it would not have moved; wherefore thou workest after men have faith” (Ether 12:30). “And I said unto them: If God had commanded me to do all things I could do them. If he should command me that I should say unto this water, be thou earth, it should be earth; and if I should say it, it would be done” (1 Nephi 17:50). “And it came to pass that when Satan had departed from the presence of Moses, that Moses lifted up his eyes unto heaven, being filled with the Holy Ghost, which beareth record of the Father and the Son; And calling upon the name of God, he beheld his glory again, for it was upon him; and he heard a voice, saying: Blessed art thou, Moses, for I, the Almighty, have chosen thee, and thou shalt be made stronger than many waters; for they shall obey thy command as if thou wert God” (Moses 1:24-25).

I'm so greatful that the Lord has been merciful allowing me to learn, remember and think over and over on the same principles and doctrines. I'm so deeply grateful to our Heavenly Father for His kindness in helping us understand new things out of old teachings. I have a personal testimony that I'll spend my lifetime trying to understand faith and yet I won't be able to learn all about it. I feel comfortable about knowing that I will be taught about faith my whole life. Why? Well, I havent' learned how to use faith to move mountains yet! Maybe some of us already know how to use faith in a particular area, but still need to learn how to use faith in other areas. I remember Elder David A. Bednar saying something about going to lesson B only after learning lesson A. Please check this link: https://www.lds.org/church/news/repetition-important-in-teaching-and-learning-elder-bednar-says?lang=eng Repetition seems to be one of the manners God teaches His children. We are awlays called to REMEMBER!

Well, I think this subject is worth discussing, since we’re all commanded to pray. Elder Richard G. Scott, from the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, taught: “We pray to our Heavenly Father in the sacred name of His Beloved Son, Jesus Christ. Prayer is most effective when we strive to be clean and obedient, with worthy motives, and are willing to do what He asks. Humble, trusting prayer brings direction and peace”. He continues: “A key to improved prayer is to learn to ask the right questions. Consider changing from asking for the things you want to honestly seeking what He wants for you. Then as you learn His will, pray that you will be led to have the strength to fulfill it”. (Using the supernal gift of prayer, as found in: https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2007/04/using-the-supernal-gift-of-prayer?lang=eng). About our Savior’s example: Gethsemane: in fact he prayed to do the Father’s will; Sermon on the Mount: he gave an example on how our prayers should be, including aligning our will to our Father’s; Intercessory prayer: our Savior demonstrated how great his character was when he prayed for his disciples instead of praying for himself, right before his greatest agony hours. I really liked the examples from the scriptures you quoted. I understand prayer this way: Asking is not the main purpose of prayer. We can ask, but what we ask is according to our Father’s plan for us? It is his will? We shouldn’t pray for things we already know the answer or ask for things we do not know if they are the best for us. The Holy Ghost influences our prayers. To ask for the right things, especially for spiritual blessings, the Lord indicates us what to ask for. Nephi didn’t pray to the Lord to ask something that the Lord hadn’t indicated by His Spirit before. Abraham didn’t pray to God to alter his will. He was righteous and the scriptures say that the prayers of the righteous can do much, but because of the influence of the Spirit. Mahonry Moriancumer didn’t pray to alter the Lord’s wil, but to do what he knew by revelation what the Lord was already willing to give and don’t forget that the brother of Jared’s prayers were granted after a long time. That’s the way I learned. Any thoughts about that?

There is some scripture background I’d like to point out: Mormon 5:21 – The Lord will remember the prayers of the righteous Proverbs 15:29 – The Lord hears the prayers of the righteous Alma 10:22-23; 62:40 – people are spared because of the prayers of the righteous James 5:16 – we can pray for another person to be healed 1) As we get older, our strength and health diminish and this is according to our genetic, diet, sleep and exercise habits. In our days there is so much information available on how to increase our health and strength, thus living longer and healthier. So, becoming an elderly person is to have strength and health diminish. 2) I believe that we shouldn’t pray to alter the Lord’s will, but to align our will to His, just like our Savior taught through His own example. 3) In my opinion, we should pray for president Monson to be able to perform his duties as a prophet as long as the Lord desires. We can pray for his health and strength, but to wish the Lord to save our prophet from all frailties of life is to wish Thomas S. Monson to live forever as a prophet and that sounds a little selfish to me, for I presume he is longing for his beloved wife’s company. Satan has no mind control power. Actually no living being has such power, as far as I’m concerned. The most intelligent part of men was never created and is co-eternal with God. The power Satan has is to influence our thoughts by suggestion, not compulsion. But it doesn’t mean he can read our thoughts. He doesn’t actually need to, for our actions speak loud enough for him to listen. We are admonished to prayer both silently and vocally. I believe that silent prayers help us to be constantly connected with the Lord. So, in this case, we don’t need to be knelt or with our eyes closed. I think it is to have a prayer in our hearts. When we pray silently, it’s my personal opinion that we dedicate our thoughts to God, which I believe it’s to serve God with all our mind. When we pray vocally, I think we want to hear our own voice and have a confirmation to ourselves of what is being said. Personally I feel more power when I pray vocally. No matter if our prayers are silently or vocally: our Father in Heaven listens to both, as long as they are honest and sincere.

Well, I think God wouldn't do anything that could bring any harm to His children, even laws and commandments. We have cases in the scriptures when the Lord, mercifully, gave a lower law to His people. PERSONAL OPINION: maybe with the growth of same-sex marriage, the laws of men may change in a way that permits a guy to marry multiple wives. Then, in this generation, the Lord could again command plural marriage. But it's only speculation from my part. The problem is not what she said, but the context. It could sound something that the CES teaches in its classes about Eternal Marriage. As I understood it, she said something of her own responsability and all CES teachers are strongly advised not to raise doubt in the students' minds. For example, this term's course is FOUNDATIONS OF THE RESTORATION, in which plural marriage will be discussed, but in the historical context. It wont' be taught how this particular law will be brought to pass in the eternities. Just for our convinience, I will post here the truths the students must understand about this law (as stated in the referred course book): Plural marriage is an acceptable practice only when the Lord commands it; Marriage between one man and one woman is God’s standard unless He commands otherwise; The commandment to live the law of plural marriage in the latter days was part of the Restoration of all things; Plural marriage can be authorized only through the priesthood keys given to the President of the Church. If we are to discuss any details about plural marriage besides the doctrine as it is in D&C 132 and the information in the History of the Church, we will merely speculate on the matter. But I already said it in another situation in this forum: I'm open minded and any further information on the subject that is clear enough to be discerned, I'll be most glad to receive it!

In john 20:17 we read what our Savior told Mary Magdalene about God the Father our relation to Him: “I ascend unto my Father, and your Father, and to my God, and your God” During His earthly ministry, Jesus Christ taught about the Father so all of us could have a perfect understanding of our relationship to God. The heathen nations believed in cruel deities and even the chosen people of Israel had forgotten their true relationship to God. What our Savior did was to restore to the House of Israel and to all of us the truth: God, the Supreme Ruler of the universe, is our Father and we are His children and have an inheritance prepared for us in His kingdom. God is not only worthy of our worship, but also worthy of our love, for He truly loves ALL His children. So, as God is our Father, Jesus is our brother. Although worthy of His right as the Firstborn, because of His eternal love, we as Paul said, are co-heirs with Christ.

@Zarahemla, as an Institute missionary, I can tell you two things on the issue: 1) plural marriage was instituted in ancient times and when the Church was restored. For our sake, the Lord decided to descontinue this commandment. When will we be able to live it again? Well, certainly the Lord knows we need to be ready to live this and many other important commandments, such as the law of consacration; 2) this female institute teacher might have said something out of her mind, for, as far as I'm concerned, there´s no institute book that fosters the idea of plural marriage the way she put it. Mentioning Elders Oaks and Nelson and even Elder Scott doesn't, in my opinion, add to the subject of plural marriage very much. Elders Nelson and Oaks haven't lived plural marriage in this life, so to speak, for they're not living with more than one woman at a time. After this life, it's only up to the Lord and His wisdom.

As far as I’m concerned, I always loved the scriptures. Actually, I have more than three sets of the standard works in my own language (Portuguese). One I use to take with me to Church, meetings and Institute classes. Others serve me in various purposes: in one of them I used a color system that worked fine for me. For example, prayer = blue, scriptures and preaching the gospel = green, faith, works and obedience = yellow, and so on. I got astonished when I realized (after finishing labeling this set of scripture with these and other color labels) how much importance is given to prayer, faith and obedience. Other sets I take with me to work and label the scripture passages in a different pattern. From President Eyring and Elder Bednar I just got the advice of purchasing a Book of Mormon to use it to find answers to specific questions (just like @Carborendum said he does). Now I have two Books of Mormon. One serves me as my source for advice about my most recent Church calling: second counselor in the bishopric of our ward. I always read it trying to find ways to better serve in this calling and it’s impressive how the Lord shows us things according to the faith, diligence and heed which we give unto them (1 Nephi 16:28). The other BOM I take in my pocket wherever I go and always take a look at it when I want to remember a principle or a doctrine. Both work as my personal Urim and Thummin. I also have versions of the scriptures in other languages, such as English, Spanish, German, French and Italian. I also have the scriptures in Hebrew, Greek and Latin. I have a personal testimony that the more languages you know, the easier it is to understand the Holy Scriptures. In many situations, when I was reading the scriptures in my own language and came across a verse I couldn’t understand, I turned to the scriptures in other languages and could finally understand that verse better. I have a strong testimony of the sacredness and importance of the Scriptures. Today I know what Alma, the younger, meant when he said: Now, we will compare the word unto a seed. Now, if ye give place, that a seed may be planted in your heart, behold, if it be a true seed, or a good seed, if ye do not cast it out by your unbelief, that ye will resist the Spirit of the Lord, behold, it will begin to swell within your breasts; and when you feel these swelling motions, ye will begin to say within yourselves—It must needs be that this is a good seed, or that the word is good, for it beginneth to enlarge my soul; yea, it beginneth to enlighten my understanding, yea, it beginneth to be delicious to me (Alma 32:2.)

Nice words, @Traveler I'd just like to say something about this sentence of yours: "Everything man touches – turns corrupt and apostate. Not until the resurrection will we be raised in incorruption (without corruption)". I understand that we aren't perfect. We are, as you well mentioned the apostle Paul, all sinners and short of the glory of God. We are children of God, His very offspring, thus having all capacity to grow spiritually. We are natural until we find Christ, accept His atonement, and “becometh a saint through the atonement of Christ the Lord” (Mosiah 3:19). With Christ enabling power of Grace, men can perform wonders in His name. So, when man is a child of Christ, everything he touches turns holy and sacred, thus acceptable to God. If it was not so, there would be no need for priesthood authority, apostles and prophets, scriptures, or even Christ. The purpose of the atonement is change, which is a life-time pursuit. Since Christ’s Grace comes with us all along the path, we can be sure that “when [we] are in the service of [our] fellow beings [we] are only in the service of [our] God” (Mosiah 2:17).

Great post! That’s the very core of the whole thing: rooting our testimonies in Jesus Christ. He is the true Finisher of our faith. Church history is important in the sense that it helps all of us to better understand the events related to the restoration of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, but it is only information, thus it is useless in terms of salvation. The Gospel is God’s words for us, thus it is the doctrine that leads us to Jesus Christ: the way, the truth and the life (John 14:6).

Thanx, @Traveler. Awasome insights!

In your view , the "two brothers" could be Jehovah who else? Thanx for the awesome insights so far!

Well, that gives a new perspective to my seachings. So Cherubim are distinct beings, not angels. What kind of beings are they, after all? Keepers? Thanx a lot!

Thanx, a lot, Traveler. This will surely enhance my personal study on the subject "angels". There's a lot to dig from the passages you mentioned. Thanx once more!

Hi, there I Will quote Elder Elder John H. Groberg, of the Seventy: “If we desire to improve (which is to repent) and are not under priesthood restriction, then, in my opinion, we are worthy. If, however, we have no desire to improve, if we have no intention of following the guidance of the Spirit, we must ask: Are we worthy to partake, or are we making a mockery of the very purpose of the sacrament, which is to act as a catalyst for personal repentance and improvement?” (“The Beauty and Importance of the Sacrament,” Ensign, May 1989, 38)

Any insights about the highlighted sentence? I strongly and definitely agree with the last paragraph!

Thanx, Traveler, for the account. Very inspiring!

Hi, @Zarahemla I know you've been trying to learn more about the plan of salvation. @Eowyn gave you some really good advices. Please consider them! About the Book of Mormon: if wars and violence are all you can see in it, you're missing a lot, buddy! the BOM has the fullness of the Gospel and certainly will help you ln your quest!

Thanx, I really needed a better word on that!

Thanx, @Carborendum Now I got it. You guys are right!

Yes, now you made your point in a way that I could understand. Young men is an auxiliary organization that, let's say, hosts quoruns of the Aaronic Priesthood. Thanx, once more!

Sorry, but I don't think I understood you. Is that right that you are saying that Young men is an auxiliary organization?

Thanx,Vort Young men is not an auxiliary organization, but is part of the priesthood organitazion. Please check https://www.lds.org/manual/priesthood-and-auxiliary-leaders-guidebook?lang=eng

Hi, @askandanswer In the Church Handbook 2, item 12.2.2, we read: Ward Sunday School Presidency “Members of the ward Sunday School presidency are priesthood holders. Where possible, the president holds the Melchizedek Priesthood. They work under the direction of the bishopric. They receive orientation and ongoing support from the stake Sunday School presidency”. There are four auxiliary organizations in a ward or branch: Sunday School, Relief Society, Young Women and Primary. Only Sunday School presidency is composed by priesthood holders. Why? We need some historic background to try to understand why only men can preside Sunday School. The first formal Sunday school in the LDS Church was held on December 9, 1849, Salt Lake City in the Salt Lake City Fourteenth Ward Other Church congregations followed the Fourteenth Ward's example and adopted Sunday school programs based on the Richard Ballantyne’s (a former Sunday school teacher from Scotland) model. At this stage, each Sunday school was completely autonomous and under the sole direction of the local bishop. Anxious to bring a standard structure and organization to the over 200 independent Sunday schools that had been created, president Brigham Young ordered that a union of the Sunday schools be carried out. On November 11, 1867, President Young plus Daniel H. Wells, George A. Smith, Wilfoord Woodruff, George Q. Cannon and Brigham Youn Jr organized the Parent Sunday School Union. President Young appointed Cannon as the first general superintendent of the Sunday School, a position he would hold until his death in 1901. In 1872, the Sunday School organization was renamed the Deseret Sunday School Union. The organized Sunday School addressed lesson topics and source materials, grading, prizes and rewards, use of hymns and songs composed by members of the Church, recording and increasing the attendance, developing an elementary teaching system, and libraries. It also sponsored the publication of administrative guidelines and materials for classroom use, resulting in increased uniformity lesson content. Until the turn of the century, only children were taught by the Sunday School. Eventually, classes were added for the youth of the church; in 1904, an adult Sunday School class was created. The 1970s saw dramatic change within the Sunday School. In 1971, as part of the Church Priesthood Correlation Program, the name of the Deseret Sunday School Union was changed to simply Sunday School, and the Sunday School general “superintendent” was renamed the general Sunday School "president". Additionally, curriculum planning and writing became more centralized and coordinated; for the first time, the Sunday School stopped providing unique lesson manuals each year, and the Church began a four-year curriculum rotation pattern. In 1979, Hugh B. Pinnock became the general president of the Sunday School, the first general authority of the Church to hold the position. Here is the Sunday School Board since its creation: Time President 1867–1901 George Q. Cannon 1901 Lorenzo Snow 1901–18 Joseph F. Smith 1918–34 Daid O. Mckay 1934–43 George D. Pyper 1943–49 Milton Bennion 1949–66 George R. Hill 1966–71 David Lawrence Mckay 1971–79 Russel M. Nelson 1979–86 Hugh B. Pinnock 1986–89 Robert L. Simpson 1989–92 Hugh B. Pinnock 1992–94 Merlyn G. Lybbert 1994–95 Charles A. Didier 1995–2000 Harold G. Hillam 2000–01 Marlin K. Jensen 2001–03 Cecil O. Samuelson 2003–04 Marril J. Bateman 2004–09 A. Roger Merrill 2009–14 Russell T. Osguthorpe 2014– Tad R. Callister So, since the beginning, only priesthood holders have been called to be part of the Sunday School General Board, and this has also been a pattern in stakes, wards and branches. I hope it was useful to you! Best wishes!