Edspringer

Great post, thanx As Sunday School president in my ward, I have been trying to get my students "out of the box", so to speak. What I mean is that they barely read the scriptures (when they have them). They don't study them the way we all should do. These verses by Nephi explain what I've been feeling lately: 1 And now, behold, my beloved brethren, I suppose that ye ponder somewhat in your hearts concerning that which ye should do after ye have entered in by the way. But, behold, why do ye ponder these things in your hearts? 2 Do ye not remember that I said unto you that after ye had received the Holy Ghost ye could speak with thetongue of angels? And now, how could ye speak with the tongue of angels save it were by the Holy Ghost? 3 Angels speak by the power of the Holy Ghost; wherefore, they speak the words of Christ. Wherefore, I said unto you, feast upon the words of Christ; for behold, the words of Christ will tell you all things what ye should do. 4 Wherefore, now after I have spoken these words, if ye cannot understand them it will be because ye ask not, neither do ye knock; wherefore, ye are not brought into the light, but must perish in the dark. 5 For behold, again I say unto you that if ye will enter in by the way, and receive the Holy Ghost, it will show unto you all things what ye should do. 6 Behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and there will be no more doctrine given until after he shall manifest himself unto you in the flesh. And when he shall manifest himself unto you in the flesh, the things which he shall say unto you shall ye observe to do. 7 And now I, Nephi, cannot say more; the Spirit stoppeth mine utterance, and I am left to mourn because of theunbelief, and the wickedness, and the ignorance, and thestiffneckedness of men; for they will not search knowledge, nor understand great knowledge, when it is given unto them in plainness, even as plain as word can be. 8 And now, my beloved brethren, I perceive that ye ponder still in your hearts; and it grieveth me that I must speak concerning this thing. For if ye would hearken unto the Spirit which teacheth a man to pray, ye would know that ye must pray; for the evil spirit teacheth not a man to pray, but teacheth him that he must not pray. 9 But behold, I say unto you that ye must pray always, and not faint; that ye must not perform any thing unto the Lord save in the first place ye shall pray unto the Father in the name of Christ, that he will consecrate thy performance unto thee, that thy performance may be for the welfare of thy soul. (2 Nephi 32) So, what I have been noticing is that most of us don’t know how to ‘knock’. ‘ask’, ‘seek’. Then it is impossible to go further in a discussion in a Sunday school class. Students don’t study the scriptures properly and, therefore, don’t have their minds broaden by the Holy Ghost and receive revelation.

Now that you mentioned spirtual eyes, it makes a lot more sense to me. Technology and technique are pretty much related, since technology is the mastery of the technique, in this case, to obtain revelaion. We should consider these terms: prophet, seer, revelator, visionary. We should also consider the role of the Holy Ghost as a Revelator and the means by which He guides us. Thanx once more.

Good reply. Thanx for that. You mentioned techniques referring to the act of receiving revelation through the U&T and other objects. I agree with that. Joseph Smith started using some objects to receive revelation, but as soon as he learned how to receive communication from heaven by himself, he stopped using them. You said these objects were aids to somehow activate or access the subconscious mind. That is something I have some problems agreeing with. We learned through Church history that Joseph saw words on the stone he used inside the hat and the same happened to the U&T. Do you mean that he didn't actually see these words but they only appeared in his mind? In other words, he visualized them or pictured the in his mind. My concern is that it sounds like prophets of all dispensations had some kind of a‘trip’ instead of really seeing things by God’s power. See, I don’t mean to be rude or something, I’m just trying to understand what you replied and I’d be most glad to have you explain it better to me. What you said about faith as a means by which one can receive revelation through theses scrying tools is something that makes perfect sense to me, though.

Please visit this website: http://ldssymbols.com/ There you will find the cup as a symbol and its meaning and all related to it, as well as other symbols from temples and scriptures. Enjoy

The answers to all our questions are in the scriptures. Please read and ponder D&C 132 and if you are true to your question and desire to follow the Lord, the answers will come.

Thanx, LeSellers. I really enjoyed your comment. Let's also consider what the Encyclopedia of Mormonism has to say on the subject: “IS THE BIBLE COMPLETE? Latter-day Saints revere the Bible as the word of God revealed to humankind. However, Joseph Smith recognized that translations do not reflect totally and exactly the original words and intentions of the ancient prophets and other biblical writers. Thus, in the Wentworth Letter he wrote, "We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly" (A of F 8). Joseph Smith observed that "our latitude and longitude can be determined in the original Hebrew with far greater accuracy than in the English version. There is a grand distinction between the actual meaning of the prophets and the present translation" (TPJS, pp. 290-91). While Latter-day Saints accept rather explicitly what the Bible now says, they realize that more is to be accounted for than is available in the extant biblical record. In addition to difficulties associated with translating from ancient to modern languages, other scriptures also declare that some parts of the original biblical text have been lost or corrupted (e.g., 1 Ne. 13:28-29; D&C 6:26-27;93:6-18). Joseph Smith commented on the Bible's incompleteness: "It was apparent that many important points touching the salvation of men, had been taken from the Bible, or lost before it was compiled" (TPJS, pp. 10-11). He later said, "Much instruction has been given to man since the beginning which we do not possess now…. We have what we have, and the Bible contains what it does contain" (TPJS, p. 61). The Prophet Joseph further stated, "I believe the Bible as it read when it came from the pen of the original writers. Ignorant translators, careless transcribers, or designing and corrupt priests have committed many errors" (TPJS, p. 327). Thus, the elements of mistranslation, incompleteness, and other errors weaken the Bible; but the spirit of its messages still reveals enough of God's word to fulfill his appointed purposes. Joseph Smith summarized thus: "Through the kind providence of our Father a portion of His word which He delivered to His ancient saints, has fallen into our hands [and] is presented to us with a promise of a reward if obeyed, and with a penalty if disobeyed" (TPJS, p. 61). Latter-day Saints have continued to trust in the general accuracy of the biblical texts even though they know that that text may not always be correct. Thus, they study and revere the Bible, especially in the context of other scriptures and modern revelation, which have much to say about the Bible and how it is to be interpreted, and as they study they ponder and pray that they may receive inspiration from God and come to understand the Bible's messages as they need to be applied in their lives (cf. Moro. 10:3-5)” http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Bible

In the Articles of Faith, it’s stated: “We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormonto be the word of God”. “ We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God” https://www.lds.org/scriptures/pgp/a-of-f?lang=eng. That being said, we acknowledge the Bible as inspired as long as its translation is correct. Of course, we know that a lot has been missed in the translation process, both in meaning and in content. The Book of Mormon is no substitute for the Bible, but as prophesized through Ezekiel, it is one with the Bible in God’s hands (Ezekiel 37:16-17). We are comissioned to take the Book of Mormon to all the world as an additional witness of the divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ. In this task, we reaffirm the importance of the Bible and teach that God has again revealed His will in these latter-days through living prophets and apostles and that the Book of Mormon is a record of the ancient inhabitants of the American continent and their knowledge of the gospel. We use the Book of Mormon as another invitation to come to Christ. In no way it is used to merely convince people about the LDS Church or to discredit the Bible as holy scripture. If you have a copy of the Book of Mormon, I suggest the following reading: 2 Nephi, chapters 26 to 30.

In the Articles of Faith, it’s stated: “We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormonto be the word of God”. “ We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God” https://www.lds.org/scriptures/pgp/a-of-f?lang=eng. That being said, we acknowledge the Bible as inspired as long as its translation is correct. Of course, we know that a lot has been missed in the translation process, both in meaning and in content. The Book of Mormon is no substitute for the Bible, but as prophesized through Ezekiel, it is one with the Bible in God’s hands (Ezekiel 37:16-17). We are comissioned to take the Book of Mormon to all the world as an additional witness of the divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ. In this task, we reaffirm the importance of the Bible and teach that God has again revealed His will in these latter-days through living prophets and apostles and that the Book of Mormon is a record of the ancient inhabitants of the American continent and their knowledge of the gospel. We use the Book of Mormon as another invitation to come to Christ. In no way it is used to merely convince people about the LDS Church or to discredit the Bible as holy scripture. If you have a copy of the Book of Mormon, I suggest the following reading: 2 Niphi, chapters 26 to 30.

האורים והתומים is translated, directly to English, as "Oracle". Well, I've done much study myself on the topic, once I became very curious about how this instrument really worked in both translating and receiving revelation. As a Book of Mormon student, I’m really engaged in doing whatever I can to understand it more fully, and this includes its translation process. So, here is what I have found so far: The Urim and Thummim is an instrument prepared by God to assist men in obtaining knowledge from heaven. In the Book of Mormon we learn about them as ‘interpreters’, as given to the brother of Jared and later to Mosiah, the king. This is the Urim and Thummim that was passed along from generation to generation ‘til t Joseph Smith got them with the plates to assist him in the translation process. The ‘interpreters’, or The Urim and Thummim, consist of two stones set in silver bows and sometimes used with a breastplate. Joseph Smith looked through it and could see the translation of the characters of the BOM. Sometimes he detached the stones from the breastplate to make it easier. Other times he would put them inside a hat to exclude the outside light and see the characters with the translation below or receive revelation. Joseph also had a seer stone through which he also received revelation and used to translate the Book of Mormon. He mostly used it with a hat to exclude the outside light to better see the characters and the translation. It is interesting to highlight that both the two stones set in a silver bow and the seer stone are sometimes referred to as being the Urim and Thummim, in lds history. We lds know that Abraham also had a U&T, so did Aaron. With it Abraham could see the stars and understand the cosmos, for instance. As far as I could go to try to understand this kind of device, the U&T is certainly a very advanced technology, but I don’t think we don’t really understand it: Frist: in 2010 a guy named Olavo Good, a Brazilian-American, developed an app that could translate languages instantly. You only had to open the app, select the languages, point your phone to the text and then the translation would appear on the screen, as magic (I don’t think so LOL). Second: there’s another cellphone app called Skyview thought which one can use to look at the sky and learn about the cosmos. You can identify stars and planets and zoon in to see them closer enough to see their surface details. Magic? Not again! I don’t claim to respond for all lds members nor claim to have all knowledge on the matter. I’m just sharing what I've lerned about the subject and interacting with you guys in pursuing more knowledge with that which our Lord and God has left to us in scripture. Greetings from Brazil.

About the resurrection of body and spirit, let’s read and ponder some scriptures; Alma 40:3,23, from the Book of Mormon: 3 But I show unto you one thing which I have inquired diligently of God that I might know—that is concerning the resurrection”. mysteries which are kept, that no one knoweth them save God himself of the dead. But behold, my son, the resurrection is not yet. Now, I unfold unto you a mystery; nevertheless, there are manyresurrection3 Behold, he (Christ) bringeth to pass the 23 The soul (spirit) shall be restored to the body, and the body to the soul; yea, and every limb and joint shall be restored to its body; yea, even a hair of the head shall not be lost; but all things shall be restored to their proper and perfect frame” .(emphasis added) (I strongly recommend the reading of that entire chapter, though). Ezekiel 37:1-14, from the Old Testament, in the Bible 1 The hand of the Lord was upon me, and carried me out in the spirit of the Lord, and set me down in the midst of the valley which was full of bones, 2 And caused me to pass by them round about: and, behold, there were very many in the open valley; and, lo, they were very dry. 3 And he said unto me, Son of man, can these bones live? And I answered, O Lord God, thou knowest. 4 Again he said unto me, Prophesy upon these bones, and say unto them, O ye dry bones, hear the word of the Lord. 5 Thus saith the Lord God unto these bones; Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live: 6 And I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live; and ye shall know that I am the Lord. 7 So I prophesied as I was commanded: and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and behold a shaking, and the bones came together, bone to his bone. 8 And when I beheld, lo, the sinews and the flesh came up upon them, and the skin covered them above: but there was no breath in them. 9 Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, Thus saith the Lord God; Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live. 10 So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army. 11 Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts. 12 Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel. 13 And ye shall know that I am the Lord, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves, 14 And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the Lord have spoken it, and performed it, saith the Lord. So, I guess it can’t be any clear than that!

In my view, we can either take the philosophy and science paths or the Gospel one. Philosophy's greatest challenge seems to be defining what life is and death is. For most people, we're only creatures that are born, grow, procriate and die, with no other purpose. Science says that nothing in nature is created, they're only transformed, suggesting continuous existance. We learn, through the restored Gospel, that intelligences are co-eternal with God, meaning they have always existed and will always exist. Our Father organized intelligences into spirit bodies for His children and everything else. We lived with Him ages ago, as we are taught. We were granted the chance to come to Earth and experience mortal life. We learn that we would have our spirits and bodies separated for a season (physical death), but throught the Infinite Atonement of Jesus Christ we were promissed to be ressurecte and die physicaly no more. So, what is intelligence? We know very little, but the scripures say that it is light and truth. “Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be. All truth is independent in that sphere in which God has placed it, to act for itself, as all intelligence also; otherwise there is no existence”. (D&C 93:29-30) “The glory of God is intelligence, or, in other words,light and truth” (D&C 93:36). What is light? What is truth? Let’s all ponder and meditate for a while.

Charity is often taken as one single attribute, when, in fact, it's a sum of attirbutes. Very regularly, we see in scriptures the differences, for example, between love and charity, making it clear to us that they are not the same attribute. Section 4 of Doctrine and Covenants and Moroni 7 are excellent example of that differentiation.

"And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell (Mathew 5:29-30).

In Brazil, especially in my state, Minas Gerais, there is this tradition of cooking chicken with its own blood (we call it frango ao molho pardo). Some people also use chicken’s blood to cook it separately, 'til it gets hard enough to eat it using a fork. So, in our case, there's no formal prohibition on consuming animal blood. My family and I don't consume it, for believing in the Old Testament teachings. But we don't preach about it or our family’s decision. I've never heard of any Church leader, local or General Authority, in our country, saying anything against eating blood. Personally I think that if it was of great concern, we would certainly have some admonition or advice on the subject from our Church leaders.

I was pondering the teachings in Doctrine and Covenants and a certain verse on the 38th section just caught my attention: "But behold, verily, verily, I say unto you that mine eyes are upon you. I am in your midst and ye cannot see me" (verse 7). It has been on my mind since the day I noticed it (which was a couple of days ago). What do you think of the meaning of this scripture? Should we take this verse literaly and assume our Savior is somehow physicaly among us or only spiritualy? If He is physicaly among us, what sources can confirm this and the type of work He could be doing here, since we have been given enough sources indicating His spiritual influence on us through the Holy Ghost. All I know, by now (or at least that I can recall) is this reference from the D&C Institue student's manual: President Harold B. Lee said: “I have a session with the missionary groups as they go out, in the temple, where they are permitted to ask intimate questions that wouldn’t be proper to be discussed elsewhere. They sometimes ask, Could you tell us a certain place in the temple where the Savior has been seen? My answer is, ‘Keep in mind that this is the house of the Lord; this is the place that we try to keep as pure and holy and sacred as any building we have. This is the most likely place he would come when he comes on earth. Don’t ask for a certain place because he has walked these halls. How do you know but what he is here in your midst?” (In Conference Report, British Area Conference 1971, pp. 135–36; or Ensign, Nov. 1971, pp. 12–13.) . Any thoughts to add? Thanx to all

Thanx, Tesuji

Thanx, Vort

Thanx Which verse?

I've been told there are two words in Latin in D&C, but I can't find them. Does anyone have a clue where they might be and their meaning? Thanx to all

Perhaps he recorded it in his personal journal or somewhere else. We don't know.

Well, as you quoted form his own words, he didn't dare to mention the things that were resting upon HIS mind, which possibily means he hadn't told anyone what he had received as revealation. We could consider the fact that he received some revelations that couldn't come to light because of men's faith. I remember that the brother of Jared, Moses, Nephi and other prophets received many great revelations and were commanded not to reveal them at that time. Maybe President Smith, as he was near his death, received more revelations concerning what was expecting him in the other side (maybe the organization in the spirit world, the way people live and interact there, the characteristics of the paradise and the prision, etc.). We don't know much. Based on his own words, I don't think the Church has registrated what President Smith had been given, besides section 138. I think he took those other revelations to his grave with him.

Tithing is a gospel law given since the old times, therefore a commandment of God. Why is it 10%? Maybe because the Lord wants us to star from the bottom and see how faithful we are before asking us to consacrate everything. Tithing is not a matter of money, but of faith. The Lord has already been asking us to give part of our week (sabbath day) our day (prayer and scripture study). As the Savior stated that the Sabbath was made for men and not the opposite, I believe tithing and offerings were made for the same reasons.

In my personal view of things, verse 10 could be referring to kingdoms above our own, that is, above our celestial kingdom. We know that our Father in Heaven has His kingdom, that will be inherited by Christ and the faithfull saints as promissed in scripture. We'll also inherit this Earth as it becomes celestialized. In effect, we'll be heirs of this Earth (celestial kingdom) and our Father in Heaven's kingdom (celestial kingdom and more). As the Great Elohim (according to the prophets Joseph Smith and Lorenzo Snow) also experienced a mortal life in a place within His Father's kingdom. Possibily and presumebly He inherited it after its celestialization and the kingdom of His Father. So, it's reasonable to believe that higher kingdoms, like the kingdom of our Heavenly Father's Father, will be made known to us. As we read in Pearl of Great Price, in the chapter 1 of Moses, the LORD only revealed to Moses things pertaining this kingdom only. A greater knowledge of higher kingdoms may be made known to us when our glorified minds will be ready to number them all and understand the power by which they stand. There may be inumerable celestial kingdoms of higher orders. Think about our Father in Heaven's kingdom, our Grandfather in Heaven's kingdom, our Great-Grandfather in Heaven's kingdom and so on. It's too much for our finite minds! Of course, we can only speculate about that, though it sounds pretty reasonable to me.

Romans 8:17 We will be joint-heirs with Christ, meaning that He and we are in the same order or beings (acording to B.H Roberts in one of his books " The Seventies's Course in Theology". Link for the entire work follows: https://archive.org/details/seventyscoursein00robe). We and Jesus Christ (as He is the Firstborn of all the offspring of our Heavenly Father, and therefore our older brother) will inherit all that God has, that is, His kingdom and this Earth as a Celestial Kingdom.