Edspringer

Thanx for replying. Of course there's nothing official on the matter. Of course our Father wants the best spot for us His children. "No ad for what is not the best". I quoted a verse of scripture and asked everyone's opinion about it in relation to the degrees within the CK. If we can at least speculate... Why not?

Hi, everyone. It’s been a while! Pondering D&C 131, I was reading the part that refers to three distinct levels or degrees within the Celestial Kingdom and was speculating about the two lowest degrees therein and their inhabitants. Then I proceeded to the next section. Reading D&C 132:19, I stopped in the following part: “[…] and they shall pass by the angels, and the gods, which are set there, to their exaltation and glory in all things, as hath been sealed upon their heads, which glory shall be a fulness and a continuation of the seeds forever and ever”. So I’d like to get some insights from you whether this ‘angels and gods’ could possibly be the inhabitants of the first two degrees of the CK or not. I’d appreciate any comments on the subject.

Hi, everyone I simply love this topic, for it is one of my favorites in the scriptures. I have engaged myself into a serious study about the creation and sought the understanding the Lord promised to those who would seek Him diligently. Well, first off (I got this expression from The Traveler), I believe the Lord wants us to understand Him and all that He did and does. But I also believe there’s a path to follow and a price to be paid, and it’s not little. Second, in the Pearl of Great Price, the Lord states both to Moses and to Abraham very much about the works of His hands. I won’t quote here any verse of scripture from the POGP because I’d rather recommend all of us to seriously and deeply study the books of Moses and of Abraham. I believe that they contain a lot to consider and to learn. We have so far four accounts of the creation: Genesis, Moses, Abraham and the temple. The complete each other and yet have different features. Considering each separately and put them together will enhance our understanding of the Lord’s cosmos. I would strongly recommend the talk by Elder Neal A Maxuel called “ Our Creator’s cosmos”. It’s worth reading. Also I’d recommend the talk by Elder Russell M Nelson called “The Creation”. By the way, President Nelson, last January, on a devotional for young adults, said when talking about divine law: “Laws are laws. God’s truth is really true. What God says it’s right is right. What God says it’s wrong is wrong. That’s why it’s imperative that you know God’s laws. They control this universe and multiple others”. Take your own conclusions. Now, I believe we were given the chance to understand this planet upon which we live and what is surrounding it. The order in the solar system is surely a model to something much greater and has been placed in a way that we could observe it, speculate about it and even pray about it, like Moses did.

Now, "we go from exaltation to exaltation until we reach everlasting burnings" is really intriguing. It could be related to increase in glory as gods, as we learn in Moses1:39.

"Everlasting burnigs" is the accurate term, not "eternal burnings", as I used it. Exaltation is the ultimate state of salvation. It is to become a god. There's no higher level than to be a god, as I understand it.

“Now let us rejoice”, # 3 3rd verse “Then all that was promised the Saints will be given,And they will be crown'd with the angels of heav'n,And earth will appear as the Garden of Eden,And Christ and his people will ever be one”.

As I have understood from scripture study and from the words of the living prophets, the Celestial Kingdom is an order, a state, just like has been said here previously. Our Heavenly Father lives in eternal burnings, in the celestial glory. This Celestial kingdom is a physical, but glorified place, just like our earth will be after its “celestialization”. But any kingdom our God and all exalted beings can abide will be of the a celestial order. When this earth is able to support the fullness of the Father and the glory of His Christ, then it will be a celestial kingdom. So, it is reasonable to think that there will be (and surely there are already) many places that are of the celestial order, that can be God’s house. Jesus taught that in His Father’s house there were many mansions. This verse alone can be subject of study for many years.

Exaltation is one of my favorite gospel subjects. The Prophet Joseph Smith said it will take a long time after the grave until we become to understand what exaltation really is. So, I feel less said for not understanding exaltation in its fullness. But let ‘s get back to the topic. Paul taught that “without faith it is impossible to please God: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him” (Hebrews 11:6). So, we are commanded to seek God diligently and expect for His reward: all that He possesses. He won’t deny anything to those who endure to the end. He will grant a place among the exalted beings and, as John taught in the book of Revelations, we will sit in the throne with Christ and become joint-heirs with Him. So, doing something expecting a promised reward is not necessarily wrong. Otherwise promises wouldn’t be made. God promised us the highest spot in heaven and so He will do, if we do our part in the covenant. To be humble, in this perspective, is to render our thoughts, our feelings, our very actions to God and His work. We truly decide to obey Him e follow the Savior, His Begotten Son. We covenant ourselves to serve Him and our fellowmen. We consecrate our time, resources, talents and even our bodies to Him. We put off the natural man. But it is my opinion that, when we come to know God and our true relationship to Him and learn and start to understand the Savior’s atoning sacrifice for us, we begin to understand that we not only do all of this simply to get a reward for God’s hand, but become we learned to love Him and the righteousness. We start to have a sense of gratitude in our hearts that will inevitably lead us to perfection. President Eyring, in his talk to the priesthood holders last General Conference, mentioned Enoch and how he became a mighty man. He was commanded to “walk with [God]” and them he completed: “Brethren, our ordination to the priesthood is an invitation from the Lord to walk with Him. And what does it mean to walk with the Lord? It means to do what He does, to serve the way He serves. He sacrificed His own comforts to bless those in need, so that’s what we try to do. He seemed to take particular notice of people who were overlooked and even shunned by society, so we should try to do that too. He testified boldly yet lovingly of the true doctrine He received from His Father, even if it was unpopular, and so must we”. When we love God, we want to do what He does and so one. The ultimate result of such performance will inevitably be to become a god and to enjoy all that a god enjoys. This thought thrills me deeply and bring to me a sense of awe and reverence to our Heavenly Father.

So we need to really understand the meaning of the word " worship". The Cambridge Dictionary says that worship is “to have or show a strong feeling of respect and admiration for God or a god”. The Oxford Dictionary defines worship as “the feeling or expression of reverence and adoration for a deity”. In the Guide for the Scripture we read that worship is the “Love, reverence, service, and devotion for God (D&C 20:19). Worship includes prayer, fasting, church service, participating in gospel ordinances, and other practices that show devotion and love for God. With all these definitions in mind, it becomes clear who we truly worship and how: We show a strong feeling of respect, admiration, an expression of reverence, adoration, love, service and devotion for all the three members of the Godhead, so you made your point here. Nevertheless we pray and fast to God only, not to Jesus or to the Holy Ghost. When we exercise faith and repentance, we show our love, reverence and respect to Jesus Christ and, through the ordinance of baptism and the sacrament, we worship Him. Because of the ordinance of confirmation we receive the companionship of the Holy Ghost and by living righteously, we become worthy of His enduring presence and show our respect and devotion to His role and the Testator and Comforter. Although the Godhead is constitute of three separate beings, they are one in purpose and mind, but God is the One who presides the other two. They all have distinct roles in the plan of salvation, as the Prophet Joseph Smith once taught in the Lectures of Faith and none of them will perform their duty with nothing in mind other than the full glory of God. Let’s remember that Lucifer wanted the Father’s glory all to himself and because of that he became Satan and was cast out of heaven.

Hi, there In Exodus 20:3 we read: “Thou shalt have no other gods before me”. This commandment refers to having any other person or thing to worship but God, the Father. He is the only true and living God to whom we are commanded to worship. Remember that Jehovah, the pre-mortal Jesus, who gave that commandment to the children of Israel. Elder Dallin H. Oaks has stated, in the last General Conference (talk entitled The Godhead and the Plan of Salvation), that to mortals, to us, the most visible member of the Godhead is Jesus Christ. I strongly recommend you to read the whole talk, but it becomes easier for us to understand why Jesus Christ seems to be more worshiped than the Father or the Holy Ghost. In fact His Atonement is essential in the plan of our Heavenly Father, but we must remember that the Savior credited all the glory to His Father and our Father. So, in my view, in terms of reverence, all three members of the Godhead are to be worshiped. In terms of glory, only the Father must be worshiped. Now, it is important to understand and know: We worship God the Father as the life Giver and the One who will reward us with eternal life; We worship Jesus Christ because of His atoning sacrifice by having faith in Him, repenting of our sins and making and keeping covenants of salvation; We worship the Holy Ghost by living in accordance to the laws and commandments of the Gospel, so our minds and hearts will be pure enough to receive His influence constantly. The Apostle Paul said we are the temple of the Spirit.

Can there be free will while God knows all things? YES Please read " The Articles of Faith", by Elder James E Talmage.

Hi, there I see that marriage is a very important issue for you, so I'll try to treat this topic very carefully. Maybe we should first consider the word "chance" in the context you've used it here. We were given agency and that's a key element of any progress we make in mortality and in the spirit world. Without it, there can be no progress at all. So, considering we all have the power to choose, we should think weather we’re making the right choices or not in terms of finding a spouse. If we become worthy and stay worthy (Elder Bednar’s words form last General Conference), seek for a companion with the same standards and similar eternal perspective and act and not be acted upon, the Lord will guide us. I’m sure no promise will be denied to those who stayed worthy of them. Just make sure you’re doing all you can to fulfill the commandment of marriage. President Nelson’s talk in the last General Conference was incredible! He said: “When you reach up for the Lord’s power in your life with the same intensity that a drowning person has when grasping and gasping for air, power from Jesus Christ will be yours. When the Savior knows you truly want to reach up to Him—when He can feel that the greatest desire of your heart is to draw His power into your life—you will be led by the Holy Ghost to know exactly what you should do”. I believe and trust in this promise. Personally I don’t think the Lord will pair unmarried people up in the Millennium, because agency is an eternal law and we will still have the power to choose for ourselves. Temples will dot the Earth during the personal reign of Christ and marriages will continue to be a part of the work there, both for the dead and for the living.

Intelligence is co-eternal with God (D&C 93:29); The glory of God is intelligence (D&C 93:36); We are spirit children of our Heavenly Father; We were granted a physical body due to our fidelity in our first estate (Abraham 3:24-26); I my personal view of things, our minds are our awareness of our existence (cogita ego sunt). Mind is intelligence and consciousness. As spirits, our learning, actions and progress were limited. Only through a physical body we could advance in knowledge; Our brain has an important connection to this intelligent part of us. We know that brain injuries can seriously compromise one’s life. Without the brain functions, we cannot learn, act and, thus, progress. We are to increase in learning, in light and in truth in order to meet God’s expectations for us.

The house of the Lord - James E Talmage Temples to dor the Earth - Richard Cowan House of glory - S Michael Wilcox A house of learning - M Richard Walker and Kathleen Walker

One of the most intriguing passages of scripture to me is surely Luke 8:43-48, when a woman touched the border of Jesus' garments. After asking who had touched Him, he said :" I perceive that virtue is gone out of me". I'd like to learn about your insights on the matter.

@Zarahemla, don't feel bothered. If you keep the faith, things will work out fine! Don't forget that Wendy Nelson, Elder Russell M. Nelson’s actual wife had never married before and she was an elderly woman when Elder Nelson married her. Imagine: she never got married (I have no idea why) and, after so many years of devoted faithfulness, she was privileged to marry an Apostle of Jesus Christ. Everything in this life seems to be a matter of faith. Faith, as the Prophet Joseph Smith once taught, is a principle of action and power in all intelligent beings. So, if a person has faith (e.g. to have a celestial marriage), he/she acts in accordance to that perspective. Sitting there and doing nothing won’t grant anybody a celestial marriage (I’m not suggesting that’s what you’re doing). The point is: I need to make and keep covenants, and show to Heavenly Father I want to be obedient in all things and have faith He will allow me to be obedient. The Lord has His own time, which is different than ours. He knows what is best for us and sees things in a manner we can’t yet see.

Whenever God revealed Himself to men He did so in holy places. Temple buildings were built whenever there was a group of worshipers, such as the Israelites after the exodus. When the number of worshipers was few, God revealed His truths in deserts and upon high mountains.

When I was 19 years old, and preparing to go on a mission, I had the chance to meet Elder Russell M. Nelson in a priesthood meeting. During break time, he stayed there at the podium looking to the audience and everybody was distracted, talking to each other, standing, going to the restroom or to drink some water. Then his eyes crossed with mine, and he smiled. I gathered some courage, stood up and went to talk to him. He kindly greeted me and then I asked him: “Elder Nelson, what council would you give to a 19-year-old young man who is just preparing to go on a mission?” He looked at me with his deep blue eyes and said: “Prepare for the temple and for the covenants you will make there. Prepare to be endowed with power from on high. You will need these spiritual blessings on the mission field”. I thanked him and I gave him a hug. It was a nice experience. In another situation, during a mission tour, a missionary asked him if he had seen the Savior. H - “Elder, are you endowed in the temple?”, he asked - “Yes”, relpied the Elder. - “ Do you talk about that with others that don’t understand its sacredness?” - No, of course not. - So, Elder, about that issue I’m under convenant.

I agree with you. The reason why we are advised to go to the ward/branch within the boundaries of our homes is to strengthen that ward/ branch. For example, our ward was recently split up to create a new ward. Our ward has now fewer members than the new ward due to the territory division proposed by the stake presidency. So, we have less priesthood holders and experienced women to occupy important calling in our ward. Recently two new families moved to our ward from other stakes and things became much easier for us here, as bishopric. But we have, for instance, this woman (whose husband is not a member) that, although she belongs to our ward, she goes to the new ward (where her parents go). She is an experienced leader and an excellent pianist. We miss her a lot, but we didn’t want to, just like you emphasized, make her unhappy. We just let her go. So, as I said in another post, things need to be taken care of with love, patience and understanding.

I'm also a counselor in the bishopric in our ward. I'd say that there's the letter of the law and the spirit of the law. Both are important, but which one should prevail? Souls are more important than rules. Of course, things need to be taken care of seriously and carefully, but despite the rules and procedures of our handbook, the Spirit, as president Ezra Taft Benson once said, is what really matters. Talking to the family, praying with them, having them tell the reasons they want to stay in the ward and reading with them the scriptures will help you and them to see the right direction they should go. Please read. 2 Nephi 32:9

Hi, @Zarahemla, Please consider Mathew 19 and Mark 10, in the New Testament. Although the Savior is speaking about marriage, it s very clear that " in the beginning, God created male and female" and that marriage is between a man and a woman.

I wish we knew more about our pre-mortal life, but we have been taught by the prophets and apostles on the matter. The Prophet Joseph Smith said: “God himself, finding he was in the midst of spirits and glory, because he was more intelligent, saw proper to institute laws whereby the rest could have a privilege to advance like himself. The relationship we have with God places us in a situation to advance in knowledge. He has power to institute laws to instruct the weaker intelligences, that they may be exalted with himself” (Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Joseph Smith [2007], 210). Elder Bruce R. McConkie said (and this is particularly interesting to me): “Being subject to law, and having their agency, all the spirits of men, while yet in the Eternal Presence, developed aptitudes, talents, capacities, and abilities of every sort, kind, and degree. During the long expanse of life which then was, an infinite variety of talents and abilities came into being. … “The Lord endowed us all with agency; he gave us laws that would enable us to advance and progress and become like him; and he counseled and exhorted us to pursue the course leading to glory and exaltation. He himself was the embodiment and personification of all good things. Every desirable characteristic and trait dwelt in him in its eternal fulness. All of his obedient children started to become like him in one way or another. There was as great a variety and degree of talent and ability among us there as there is among us here. Some excelled in one way, others in another. The Firstborn excelled all of us in all things” (The Mortal Messiah, 4 vols. [1979–81], 1:23). So, assuming we all were endowed with agency, it is reasonable to also assume that sin, in some degree, was possible in that realm of existence. Peter taught that Jesus is the lamb foreordained before the foundation of the world (1 Peter 1:20). So, we can conclude that the effects of the atonement were available even before the creation and the fall. Robert J. Matthews, a BYU scholar, said in 2007 that the Grand Council might have been a series of meetings instead of only a single gathering. I quote: “ ‘Grand Council’ is a term often used by the Prophet Joseph Smith to describe the setting for official, top-level, priesthood functions in the pre-earth life. The plan of God was introduced and taught in many meetings over an extended period of time - collectively called the Grand Council”. You can view his talk here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7noNAwLFr78 About the war in heaven, Elder Bruce R. McConkie said: “What kind of war [was the War in Heaven]? The same kind that prevails on earth; the only kind Satan and spirit beings can wage—a war of words, a tumult of opinions, a conflict of ideologies; a war between truth and error” (Doctrinal New Testament Commentary, 3 vols. [1965–73], 3:518). I hope that helps!

I enjoy studying the scriptures, but not only reading them, but going deeper and deeper. I also heard that sentence a lot in my life: "Stop trying to figure that out. It's not pertinent to your salvation" or "This is deep doctrine". It frustrated me a lot in the past, but as I grew spiritually and enhanced my study skills, I got more confident to ask, seek and knock. I’d like to share my thoughts: a) I am pretty convinced that ALL I can know (not only what I need, should or must know) is in the scriptures we now possess. I am convinced that I can know about any gospel law, principle, doctrine, commandment or subject, as long as it is mentioned in scripture by sincerely studying, pondering and asking Heavenly Father for guidance. As scripture is given by the power of the Holy Ghost, I can only understand it by the same power. So, if I desire to know more about a principle that is mentioned in scripture but may not be very clear, I should do my best in searching the answers in all books of scriptures, exercise my faculties and then ask God if it is correct (D&C 9:8-9). If I’m worthy and prepared, even the visions of eternity can be displayed before me, just like with the prophets of the past and present; b) I’m also very convinced that there’s no ‘deep doctrine’. There are, as far as I know, things that have been revealed and things that haven’t. I’m sure there’s plenty to learn from scripture study. I know that our Father in Heaven shares His knowledge with those who seek for it and are prepared and worthy to receive it. He uses a very known pattern to us, which is give to men line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little, there a little (D&C 128:21); c) “It is impossible for a man to be saved in ignorance (D&C 131:6). That being said, one can only reach Heaven if he/she knows the only true and living God and Jesus Christ (John 17:3). How do we come to know God and Jesus Christ? Though the scriptures and by the power of the Holy Ghost. Knowledge is essential to salvation. Every knowledge available is important to salvation. d) I’m convinced that I don’t need to know all that God knows to be saved. Otherwise there wouldn’t be need for faith and works. Well, it has worked for me so far. I’m open to new insights on this matter.

Hi, my friend @askandanswer I like discussions like that. It is always good to share our thoughts and learn from others. I myself have learned a lot in this forum. Through what I have studied, pondered and learned from scriptures and with friends, God Himself deals with opposition. He is a perfect being, having all knowledge and all wisdom, all power. It doesn’t mean He doesn’t have problems to solve. He said to Abraham: “I (God) dwell in the midst of them all; I now, therefore, have come down unto thee to declare unto thee the works which my hands have made, wherein my wisdom excelleth them all, for I rule in the heavens above, and in the earth beneath, in all wisdom and prudence, over all the intelligences thine eyes have seen from the beginning; I came down in the beginning in the midst of all the intelligences thou hast seen” (PGP, Abraham 3:21) Our Father in Heaven rules with all wisdom and prudence over all the intelligences, which means (in my view) that He deals with opposition among all the intelligences, because through the laws He instituted, they are allowed to act for themselves and not by compulsion. Otherwise there wouldn’t be any progress. Oppositon is an eternal principle because it seems to be a pattern among all the exalted beings in order to foster the exaltation of their children. Absolute evil (like a living entity) doesn’t seem to be the case, in my opinion. What I believe is that all intelligences are free to act and this action leads closer to God’s purposes or drives away from it. Lucifer, on all the light he received in Heaven, made his choice, but not because some entity tempted him, but because of his own making. He didn’t exercise faith in Heavenly Father and in His Beloved Son as our Savior and Redeemer. Thus, he could not progress in glory and was cast out from Heaven. Later I post more comments. I'm in a rush now LOL

I will quote Joseph Smith: “The fundamental principles of our religion are the testimony of the Apostles and Prophets, concerning Jesus Christ, that He died, was buried, and rose again the third day, and ascended into heaven; and all other things which pertain to our religion are only appendages to it”.