Rob Osborn
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Posts posted by Rob Osborn
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1 hour ago, Traveler said:
I will attempt the same by rephrasing:
Regardless of how complete, perfect, pure, holy, sacred, exact and spot on doctrine is - no man can understand it or realize how completely true it is - without any error whatsoever:
The following scriptures come to mind:
This next scripture that I will quote is also from Isaiah - but I am going to quote from the original Hebrew Isaiah scroll found with the Dead Sea Scriptures - This is considered the most accurate ancient scripture text currently in existence.
This is a play on words and taking that into account it means - "If you do not believe it - it is because you are not loyal to G-d".
The final scripture is 2 Timothy 4:3
The Traveler
So, are you suggesting that LDS doctrine- that which we teach has always been 100% perfect since Joseph Smith? Because I beg to differ. Blacks and the priesthood comes to mind...
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1 minute ago, Anddenex said:
This belief more coincides with Protestant Christianity, not the restored Church -- the dichotomy of Heaven/Hell. The scriptures are clear of a Telestial state (kingdom/glory), Terrestrial state (kingdom/glory), Celestial state(kingdom/glory/exaltation), and of course Outer Darkness (sons of perdition). The scriptures also are clear as to who the sons of perdition are -- those that deny the Holy Spirit.
The scriptures are clear that these liars and others (Telestial state), "These are they who deny not the Holy Spirit," therefore cannot be sons of perdition (Outer Darkness, No glory -- Hell). So I am not following your understanding. I have never heard in the Church the unrepentant can have place in heaven (referring to where God dwells). I have heard that people are able to repent and change kingdoms, which I do not see evidence of in scriptures.
I have read the following, shared previously, "These are they who are thrust down to hell. These are they who shall not be redeemed from the devil until the last resurrection, until the Lord, even Christ the Lamb, shall have finished his work."
So, honestly I am not following the dichotomy presented, as it appears more Protestant Christianity rather than the restored gospel of Jesus Christ.
This is what I was getting at before dealing with the very core principles of Christ's gospel as found in the scriptures, especially the Book of Mormon. One must understand the lay out of the principles of the gospel as found in the Book of Mormon, otherwise contradictions and paradoxes arise.
Whether we like to admit or not, the Book of Mormon which contains Christ's gospel, very much is a Protestant heaven or hell dichotomy. Look at these verses-
25 And the Lord said unto me: Marvel not that all mankind, yea, men and women, all nations, kindreds, tongues and people, must be born again; yea, born of God, changed from their carnal and fallen state, to a state of righteousness, being redeemed of God, becoming his sons and daughters;
26 And thus they become new creatures; and unless they do this, they can in nowise inherit the kingdom of God.
27 I say unto you, unless this be the case, they must be cast off; and this I know, because I was like to be cast off. (Mosiah 27:25-27)This is a paraphrase of the very Lord speaking. We either become righteous and born again becoming his sons and daughters or we are cast off. The casting off is in reference to the great last day of judgment which is pronounced upon the devil and his angels.
26 But, behold, verily I say unto you, before the earth shall pass away, Michael, mine archangel, shall sound his trump, and then shall all the dead awake, for their graves shall be opened, and they shall come forth—yea, even all.
27 And the righteous shall be gathered on my right hand unto eternal life; and the wicked on my left hand will I be ashamed to own before the Father;
28 Wherefore I will say unto them—Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels. (D&C 29:26-28) -
7 hours ago, Anddenex said:
Which doesn't agree with the following scripture (emphasis mine):
81 And again, we saw the glory of the telestial, which glory is that of the lesser, even as the glory of the stars differs from that of the glory of the moon in the firmament.
82 These are they who received not the gospel of Christ, neither the testimony of Jesus.
83 These are they who deny not the Holy Spirit.
84 These are they who are thrust down to hell.
85 These are they who shall not be redeemed from the devil until the last resurrection, until the Lord, even Christ the Lamb, shall have finished his work.
86 These are they who receive not of his fulness in the eternal world, but of the Holy Spirit through the ministration of the terrestrial;
87 And the terrestrial through the ministration of the celestial.
88 And also the telestial receive it of the administering of angels who are appointed to minister for them, or who are appointed to be ministering spirits for them; for they shall be heirs of salvation.
89 And thus we saw, in the heavenly vision, the glory of the telestial, which surpasses all understanding;
90 And no man knows it except him to whom God has revealed it.
Then again, for one who doesn't follow scripture regarding Telestial and Terrerstrial Kingdom's, I am not sure how you are defining son's of God.
In the end all people will either be made free because they have been born again becoming son's and daughters unto God or remain in chains having not repented choosing instead Satan as their head or father. Every soul will have the full opportunity to know Jesus Christ and his mission. Those who utterly refuse and choose not to repent will not be forced into heaven but will go into hell and the devil shall be their father. The designation of "father" and "children's at judgment signifies the head figure and those who follow after such head.
There is a basic error in our doctrine where we teach that the unrepentant (never repent and be baptized) can have place in heaven as long as they pay the penalty themselves. That's a vain and foolish doctrine. The scriptures are very specific that one must repent and become a son of God through repentance and baptism to be saved. The unbelievers, liars, sorcers, murderers, etc, are those who do not repent because they are still called that at judgment. They are "filthy still". They choose Satan as their head and as such they become children to the devil.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother. (1 John 3:10)
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18 minutes ago, Traveler said:
It is my opinion that the doctrine of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is 100% reliable and accurate - the problem (if or when such exists) is in understanding and receiving the inspiration necessary to see with spiritual eyes and hear with spiritual ears. Never-the-less, I do not doubt that without the holy spirit (Holy Ghost) to guide and give understanding that doctrine would definitely appear or seem to be inaccurate and insufficient.
The Traveler
Let me rephrase it to give better meaning-
Anyone who believes our doctrine is completely true, containing no errors whatsoever, no matter how large or small, is naive. This scripture comes to mind. Note the bold-
78 Teach ye diligently and my grace shall attend you, that you may be instructed more perfectly in theory, in principle, in doctrine, in the law of the gospel, in all things that pertain unto the kingdom of God, that are expedient for you to understand.
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22 minutes ago, Anddenex said:
"But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death."
These aren't sons of perdition above, and yet they have part with the second death, unless of course you believe all these people mentioned have denied the Holy Spirit.
In the end all people will fall into one of two categories- either son's of God or sons of perdition. Those who fail to repent by the great last day of judgment which comes at the end of the millennium will become sons of perdition. Son's of perdition is another way of saying children of the devil.
21 I say unto you, ye will know at that day that ye cannot be saved; for there can no man be saved except his garments are washed white; yea, his garments must be purified until they are cleansed from all stain, through the blood of him of whom it has been spoken by our fathers, who should come to redeem his people from their sins.
22 And now I ask of you, my brethren, how will any of you feel, if ye shall stand before the bar of God, having your garments stained with blood and all manner of filthiness? Behold, what will these things testify against you?
23 Behold will they not testify that ye are murderers, yea, and also that ye are guilty of all manner of wickedness?
24 Behold, my brethren, do ye suppose that such an one can have a place to sit down in the kingdom of God, with Abraham, with Isaac, and with Jacob, and also all the holy prophets, whose garments are cleansed and are spotless, pure and white?
25 I say unto you, Nay; except ye make our Creator a liar from the beginning, or suppose that he is a liar from the beginning, ye cannot suppose that such can have place in the kingdom of heaven; but they shall be cast out for they are the children of the kingdom of the devil. (Alma 5:21-25) -
7 minutes ago, Anddenex said:
The sons of perdition, who deny the Holy Spirit, are the "only" individuals who receive a full measure of the second death
The son's of perdition are the only ones who suffer any part of the second death.
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To think our doctrine is 100% accurate would be shortsighted.
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Just now, Anddenex said:
I am not sure how I need to read any further when I read this, "even a second death, which is a spiritual death; " It appears pretty clear spiritual death is second death, and second death is spiritual death.
It would be similar to reading a book, a book that uses a name known to be used for male or female and the book says, "Tracy, which is a man..." And then someone says read further you will find out Tracy is actually a female. OK.
Yes, the second death is a spiritual death. So is the first a spiritual death.
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Just now, Anddenex said:
I agree the Book of Mormon is clear, but I don't see it agreeing with spiritual death being the first death. Here is scripture from the Book of Mormon relating to second death and spiritual death:
I would say @Colirio clears it up even more though.
Continue reading, but read the preceding verses. It speaks of being resurrected and coming forth to judgment and it is after this the second death comes.
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1 hour ago, Anddenex said:
Alright, although @The Folk Prophet provided ample information, let's go back to the basics. There were ONLY two deaths which occurred at the time of the Fall (not three, not four, not five) - two deaths.
These deaths are Physical (First) Death -- which we all die, and the other is Spiritual (second) death -- which we are no longer in the presence of the Father. There are no other deaths as a result of the Fall. If you can provide any scripture, or quote from a prophet where they provide more than two deaths that occurred, then you have a point; otherwise, as I shared with Rob -- it is not "scripture" which is in debate, it is your understanding (your interpretation) that is in debate.
Spiritual death (also referred to as second death) is being separated from the presence of the Father, and those who do not enjoy the same life He enjoys and lives. In other words, they did not receive the "fullness" of the Father. Here is a quote that may not have been read so carefully:
Notice the statement, "redemption from second death, which is spiritual death, which is separation from the presence of our Heavenly Father." Also notice the scripture @The Folk Prophet provided, "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death."
This scripture explains that murderers, fearful, whoremongers, and liars (nothing is mentioned about denying the Holy Spirt -- which are the sons of perdition) and they partake of second death.
The verses you provide with "ONLY" speak of the sons of perdition. We have two verses of scripture that specify only the sons of perdition have second death, and we have scripture that specifies people who are of a Telestial countenance (who receive a Telestial glory) receive "the second death."
So, if I take your words, your interpretation at face value, I have to omit the other verse of scripture. Sorry, not going to happen.
The scriptures are accurate. The sons of perdition, who deny the Holy Spirit, are the "only" individuals who receive a full measure of the second death -- spiritual death -- for they are out of the presence of the Father and they have no kingdom of glory.
Those in the Telestial kingdom: liars, murders, adulterers, etc.. also receive a second (spiritual) death as they are separated from God the Father.
Once you can provide any scripture or quote from the prophets that say more than two deaths come from the Fall, then you have a point. Other than that, you are picking a scripture while ignoring all other teachings on this subject. Similar to a Protestant Christian who says God is a Spirit (he doesn't have a body of flesh and bone), and they will show you that verse and expect you to believe their interpretation of scripture.
The Book of Mormon is the most clear on defining The "second death". The first death is spiritual death. This spiritual death comes upon all who enter mortality and sin. They remain in this state until they repent and are born again (made alive) to the Spirit. If the die without repentance they remain in this first spiritual death until the time of their repentance or resurrection. The resurrection and day of judgment redeems all souls from this first spiritual death. If one remains filthy still then they are cast into the second death-
16 Yea, behold, this death bringeth to pass the resurrection, and redeemeth all mankind from the first death—that spiritual death; for all mankind, by the fall of Adam being cut off from the presence of the Lord, are considered as dead, both as to things temporal and to things spiritual.
17 But behold, the resurrection of Christ redeemeth mankind, yea, even all mankind, and bringeth them back into the presence of the Lord.
18 Yea, and it bringeth to pass the condition of repentance, that whosoever repenteth the same is not hewn down and cast into the fire; but whosoever repenteth not is hewn down and cast into the fire; and there cometh upon them again a spiritual death, yea, a second death, for they are cut off again as to things pertaining to righteousness. (Helaman 14:26-18)Hope that clears things up. The second death comes after resurrection and judgment, not before.
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2 hours ago, Vort said:
The revelations disagree with your assessment.
David committed the unpardonable sin. Unpardonable sins fall in this category-
32 They are they who are the sons of perdition, of whom I say that it had been better for them never to have been born;
33 For they are vessels of wrath, doomed to suffer the wrath of God, with the devil and his angels in eternity;
34 Concerning whom I have said there is no forgiveness in this world nor in the world to come-.(D&C 76:42-34)27 The blasphemy against the Holy Ghost, which shall not be forgiven in the world nor out of the world, is in that ye commit murder wherein ye shed innocent blood, and assent unto my death, after ye have received my new and everlasting covenant, saith the Lord God; and he that abideth not this law can in nowise enter into my glory, but shall be damned, saith the Lord.
39 David’s wives and concubines were given unto him of me, by the hand of Nathan, my servant, and others of the prophets who had the keys of this power; and in none of these things did he sin against me save in the case of Uriah and his wife; and, therefore he hath fallen from his exaltation, and received his portion; and he shall not inherit them out of the world, for I gave them unto another, saith the Lord. (D&C 132:27,39)
The "portion" spoken of in reference to David's punishment is revealed as-
90 And in his hot displeasure, and in his fierce anger, in his time, will cut off those wicked, unfaithful, and unjust stewards, and appoint them their portion among hypocrites, and unbelievers;
91 Even in outer darkness, where there is weeping, and wailing, and gnashing of teeth.(D&C 101:90-91) -
1 hour ago, wenglund said:
To the binary mind, it would be contradictory and paradoxical to say that there is one ice-cream and three ice-creams.
Not a problem for the nuanced thinkers.
Thanks, -Wade Englund-
Keep laughing, the mysteries of godliness come to those who seek truth and not make lightness of such matters
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23 minutes ago, Vort said:
Oh, come on. Surely you at least got a chuckle out of it. I was chuckling when I wrote it, very proud of my clever sarcasm.
Hmmm. Well, if pigs had wings, I suppose I might have to pick buckshot out of my bacon. So assuming that a treacherous murderer could repent and become worthy of celestial glory, but somehow not worthy of being sealed to another to actually, you know, take advantage of eternal life—well then sure, I suppose David could be there. Why not? If we're making up the rules as we go along, we can probably include any specific condition we want to. it's retconning the gospel.
This is probably coming across as cuttingly sarcastic, which is not really my intent. I am interested in understanding the scriptures and the doctrines of the Restoration, but not really so much in speculating or otherwise playing What If. I do not know exactly what it means when the Lord tells us that David has "fallen from his exaltation" and that the Lord "gave [David's wives and lesser wives] unto another". I'm quite sure it means something, but whether it means that David was given the opportunity to receive a different exaltation or the more traditional view that David simply forfeited his exaltation in eternity, I can't say for sure. For the moment, I'm happy to stick with the traditional interpretation, having no compelling reason to think otherwise.
David committed the unpardonable sin. Not only did he fall from his exaltation, he is left without the salvation of his soul and in hell he shall reap his reward.
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26 minutes ago, JohnsonJones said:
What about the New testament though???
John 14:2-4
I do believe in degrees of glory within the one celestial world/kingdom. Unlike some who think I have a binary mind with no nuance I laugh. My train of thought is well beyond the simpleness of relating ice cream to heaven. The scriptures, specifically in mentioning the state of the saved or the damned, is strictly a dichotomy. Christ mentions in his parables all of these strict dichotomies- the sheep and the goats, right hand or the left, the wheat and the tares, etc. There are principles of absolute truth here if, and I might suggest a big IF, we are willing to understand that as for salvation, its really black or white. Some might chide at me and poke fun at such a "binary" approach but the fact is its Christs teaching. He has no third hand, no other "third" option. We either obey and follow Christ and reap salvation or, just like the devil, we are left to our own without any salvation.
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10 minutes ago, Colirio said:
The doctrines set forth by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints concerning the degrees of glory are simple to understand. Primary children can easily explain them. There is no pretended mystery.
Elder Dallin H. Oaks
April 1995 General Conference
"In their final judgment, the children of God will be assigned to a kingdom of glory for which their obedience has qualified them. In his letters to the Corinthians, the Apostle Paul described these places. He told of a vision in which he was “caught up to the third heaven” and “heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter” (2 Cor. 12:2, 4). Speaking of the resurrection of the dead, he described “celestial bodies,” “bodies terrestrial” (1 Cor. 15:40), and “bodies telestial” (JST, 1 Cor. 15:40), each pertaining to a different degree of glory. He likened these different glories to the sun, to the moon, and to different stars (see 1 Cor. 15:41).
We learn from modern revelation that these three different degrees of glory have a special relationship to the three different members of the Godhead.
The lowest degree is the telestial domain of those who “received not the gospel, neither the testimony of Jesus, neither the prophets” (D&C 76:101) and who have had to suffer for their wickedness. But even this degree has a glory that “surpasses all understanding” (D&C 76:89). Its occupants receive the Holy Spirit and the administering of angels, for even those who have been wicked will ultimately be “heirs of [this degree of] salvation” (D&C 76:88).
The next higher degree of glory, the terrestrial, “excels in all things the glory of the telestial, even in glory, and in power, and in might, and in dominion” (D&C 76:91). The terrestrial is the abode of those who were the “honorable men of the earth” (D&C 76:75). Its most distinguishing feature is that those who qualify for terrestrial glory “receive of the presence of the Son” (D&C 76:77). Concepts familiar to all Christians might liken this higher kingdom to heaven because it has the presence of the Son.
In contrast to traditional Christianity, we join with Paul in affirming the existence of a third or higher heaven. Modern revelation describes it as the celestial kingdom—the abode of those “whose bodies are celestial, whose glory is that of the sun, even the glory of God” (D&C 76:70). Those who qualify for this kingdom of glory “shall dwell in the presence of God and his Christ forever and ever” (D&C 76:62). Those who have met the highest requirements for this kingdom, including faithfulness to covenants made in a temple of God and marriage for eternity, will be exalted to the godlike state referred to as the “fulness” of the Father or eternal life (D&C 76:56, 94; see also D&C 131; D&C 132:19–20). (This destiny of eternal life or God’s life should be familiar to all who have studied the ancient Christian doctrine of and belief in deification or apotheosis.) For us, eternal life is not a mystical union with an incomprehensible spirit-god. Eternal life is family life with a loving Father in Heaven and with our progenitors and our posterity."
I will point out just a few points. Describing the telestial, a kingdom of salvation, it mentions they receive not the gospel. This is a direct contradiction to Christs teachings that one must receive the gospel in order to be saved from hell eternally. The other point I might mention is that all of those saved from the eternal hell receive "eternal life". Things to think about.
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5 minutes ago, Vort said:
Yet the prophets teach as they teach, despite the perceived contradictions and paradoxes.
When you observe that a thing is contradictory or paradoxical, there are at least two possibilities: (1) The thing is false; (2) the thing is not contradictory or paradoxical, and it's only your own ignorance that makes you think they are. I would strongly suggest that you investigate Possibility #2 more diligently.
It is contradictory and paradoxial though. This board is a testament of that! This isnt something I just came up with one night. This has developed over 40 years since my childhood and inquiring about it and studying it out. I think the hardest part for LDS to realize is that not that what I say may be correct but that what I say is contrary to what prophets have taught. Its like we are incapable of studying things out ourselves.
The Book of Mormon lays out the priciples of Christs gospel very very well. A principle is defined as a fundamental truth that lays the foundation for a set of beliefs. Accordingly, we cant go and change the principle later on because it no longer fits our paradigm. But yet, thats exactly what we have done and its created quite a mash of things. As we were discussing earlier, the definitions of "saved" and "damned", as laid out in the scriptures, especially the Book of Mormon, are used in very well defined terms and meaning that establishes a set of principles that all of Christs teachings regarding salvation are built upon. I did an extensive resarch years ago to understand how Joseph Smith understood the words. I wasnt at all surprised that in every sense he used them the same, never deviated. The problem, or contradiction, is rather paramount. We have since changed the principles established by Christ in the NT and BoM. I can show, and have done so many times in the past, where once one understands the correct principles as set forth by Christ in the Book of Mormon and New Testament, the inevitable conclusion is that our doctrine of salvation in our day has contradictions and paradoxes. I even traced where I think the problem arose, in my opinion, to the very two words that have created the issue- the words "saved" and "damned".
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11 minutes ago, Vort said:
So the common LDS belief is that there are (1) three degrees of glory and (2) three "levels" in the celestial degree of glory. TFP's and my combination of these two ideas is to reject the three-part nature of the celestial kingdom and assign all scriptural variance in description to the celestial, terrestrial, and telestial kingdoms. Rob Osborn's resolution is to reject the existence of the terrestrial and telestial kingdoms and call everything "the celestial kingdom", assigning all variances within that term.
Other than nomenclature—which in this case I think is a very big deal—I'm not sure there is much conceptual difference between the two views. But I do believe the nomenclature issue is indeed very important.
Im principle based, and in principle, regarding the validity of doctrine in the Book of Mormon, there is one heaven and one hell in the end we are will end up in.
Theres way too many contadictions and paradoxes when you start making heaven three different worlds.
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14 minutes ago, Vort said:
The big difference is that we will be resurrected, with bodies of flesh and bone. Paul spoke of different types of bodies; Joseph Smith's revelations extended this metaphor to a very concrete physical reality. We are resurrected with a physical body capable of enduring and prospering in a celestial glory OR a terrestrial glory OR a telestial glory (OR, for those who are lost, no glory).
Yes, all are cleansed from sin, except for those who remain filthy still. All will, indeed must, confess Jesus as the Christ to receive his cleansing blood. Thus they are saved. Though we think of baptism as an ordinance for celestial glory, my understanding is that baptism is a minimal prerequisite for any glory, because all glories are of the kingdom of God, and baptism is the gateway. But salvation in a kingdom of glory is not the same as exaltation in the celestial kingdom. Only some of the saved will be worthy of "a more exceeding and eternal weight of glory." There can be no reasonable doubt that this, the difference between salvation and exaltation, is the firmly established doctrine of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
15 minutes ago, Vort said:The big difference is that we will be resurrected, with bodies of flesh and bone. Paul spoke of different types of bodies; Joseph Smith's revelations extended this metaphor to a very concrete physical reality. We are resurrected with a physical body capable of enduring and prospering in a celestial glory OR a terrestrial glory OR a telestial glory (OR, for those who are lost, no glory).
Yes, all are cleansed from sin, except for those who remain filthy still. All will, indeed must, confess Jesus as the Christ to receive his cleansing blood. Thus they are saved. Though we think of baptism as an ordinance for celestial glory, my understanding is that baptism is a minimal prerequisite for any glory, because all glories are of the kingdom of God, and baptism is the gateway. But salvation in a kingdom of glory is not the same as exaltation in the celestial kingdom. Only some of the saved will be worthy of "a more exceeding and eternal weight of glory." There can be no reasonable doubt that this, the difference between salvation and exaltation, is the firmly established doctrine of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
If you are meaning the difference between being saved in the celestial kingdom and being exalted in tge celestial kingdom I agree.
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Some people have no manners.
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8 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:
So freaking rude. Forget it!
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11 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:
We all dwelt with God as non-exalted beings in the pre-earth life.
The big difference is if we are clean or unclean. The third host were removed from heaven because they became unclean. We can return to our HF if we become cleansed from our sins. Section 76 tells us that he cleanses all from sin except for the sons of perdition.
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The way I've always looked at it is everyone at judgment will enter either into "eternal spiritual life" or "eternal spiritual death". This in reference to -
28 And now, my sons, I would that ye should look to the great Mediator, and hearken unto his great commandments; and be faithful unto his words, and choose eternal life, according to the will of his Holy Spirit;
29 And not choose eternal death, according to the will of the flesh and the evil which is therein, which giveth the spirit of the devil power to captivate, to bring you down to hell, that he may reign over you in his own kingdom. (2Nephi 2:28-29)This "eternal death" is the second death. It's an eternal spiritual death.
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1 hour ago, The Folk Prophet said:
7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
Also, compare with this verse-
5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. (Rev. 3:5)
Now compare with-
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. (Rev. 30:13-15)It all comes full circle back to the fact that the second death is hell where the devil and his angels are. One must "overcometh" to gain salvation which is being saved from hell.
Exaltation and Eternal Life
in LDS Gospel Discussion
Posted
But it is. The BoM teaches one can either repent and be baptized/born again into the everlasting kingdom of God or be cast into the eternal hell.