person0

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  1. Love
    person0 reacted to Grunt in What is something good that happened to you today?   
    Nice!  Today I scheduled Mrs. Grunt's endowment and the Grunt Family sealing as well.
  2. Like
    person0 reacted to NeuroTypical in Article of Faith #2   
    That's been my understanding as well.  One of the purposes of the Articles of Faith was to explain LDS beliefs, and distinguish them from other popular beliefs of the time.  And "mankind is evil because Adam did wrong and we're all tainted with his sin and you are all horrible hopeless fallen wastes of skin who would be lost without Christ praise the Lord", was a commonplace belief back then. 
    AOF 2 basically says "yeah, you see that?  We don't believe that."
  3. Like
    person0 got a reaction from Anddenex in A Pentacostal Reads the BoM   
    I think the answer is relatively simple: "he who hath ears to hear, let him hear."  The promise declared by Moroni is ultimately one of many ways an individual may receive a witness of the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon.  However, it is the only promised way that is 100% guaranteed.  That doesn't mean it is easy, automatic, or to be taken for granted.  That also doesn't mean we can or should only count answers that come through prayer at the expense of potentially casting out other witnesses we have received.
    I had many experiences with the Holy Spirit in my life before I ever got an answer following Moroni's method.  I always wondered why I never was able to get an answer witnessing the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon while praying.  Then when I finally got and answer through prayer, I realized why hadn't before.  I asked Marge if she wanted me to share my witness and if she was willing to receive it and she wasn't.  She also went beyond claiming to have never received an answer and extended to claiming to have received revelation in direct opposition to the promised answer.  Despite these things, I know that one day she and her testimony can grow to embrace the truths of the Restored Gospel.
    God doesn't withhold a testimony from anyone, we withhold them from ourselves, albeit sometimes unwittingly.
  4. Like
    person0 got a reaction from JohnsonJones in Kyle Rittenhouse   
    I think you are assuming the civil suits will be successful and also assuming he will not succeed in lawsuits against major media outlets who maliciously defamed him.  If Nick Sandman was able to settle for millions, I'm sure we can assume Kyle will be able to do the same, if not more, given the more egregious level of defamation and the impact to livelihood of being falsely labeled a murderous white supremacist.

    I am less concerned about his safety and financial stability and more concerned about what he will choose to do with his life and if he will strive to become a better man.  He showed enormous restraint in deciding when to use and when not to use his weapon; given how young he still is I hope his acquittal doesn't go to his head and lead him to change for the worse.
  5. Like
    person0 got a reaction from Anddenex in A Pentacostal Reads the BoM   
    I am grateful you are willing to acknowledge at least this much.
    It could have been an evil Spirit, but it doesn't have to have been. Satan does all he can to copy spiritual influences to lead people astray.  For example: After spending a great deal of time one day in a Buddhist temple (as a carpet cleaner - for my job), I felt a great sense of tranquility with the absence of the Spirit.  That is one experience where I came to personally understand that Satan will seek to use feelings of tranquility as a replacement for the feeling of the peace of the Spirit.  Joy: Fun, Love: Lust, and so on.
    Oddly, I find a good example of what this might be like is from the movie Batman Begins; when Ra's al Ghul (played by Liam Needing) is about to die, you can see his expression change to one of tranquility and acceptance of his fate.  Such thoughts may dissipate inner turmoil but are no replacement for the true light and peace that comes from the Spirit of God.  Hopefully this doesn't distract, from the intent of the message, but here is a still from that scene in the movie that captures the tranquility of resigning to ones fate.

    It could have been your own thoughts and desires.  Perhaps there are things you do not like about the Church that made it easy to feel doubt and fear even while praying, and then to interpret those feelings as a witness that the Church and / or Book of Mormon is not true.
    Perhaps you did not separate your requests; the first step is to come to a knowledge that the Book of Mormon is true, everything else can be baby steps after that.  It is common for people to receive a witness of the Book of Mormon and then to, through fear and doubt, reject a similar witness that the Church is Christ's true Church.  I saw this regularly as a missionary.  People received a witness and knew the Book of Mormon was true, but did not want to join the Church for their own reasons.  ( I know you claim that you did want it )
    There are so many distractions in this world and ways to sin and be led away.  Satan will use whatever it takes.  I have often considered the saying, "the only true miracle is that a man will repent and change".  I like this saying because it emphasizes that God can do many mighty miracles that we see as miracles because they are supernatural according to mankind's understanding, but even He cannot and does not force a man to repent, that change must come from within and be chosen by the penitent.  The personal decision to choose to repent, change and turn to God is a true miracle.  I hope you find yourself a participant in that miracle in one day expanding upon your faith in Christ by receiving and accepting a witness of the Holy Spirit and choosing to accept and follow the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon and eventually join the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, and go no more out.  🤗
  6. Like
    person0 got a reaction from LDSGator in Kyle Rittenhouse   
    I agree 100% that they were in the wrong and that they are guilty of something.  The problem is, I don't think they are guilty of murder in the same way King Lamoni was guilty of murder, nor in the way Nehor was guilty of murder, nor in the way David was.  It saddens me that our justice system isn't equipped or wasn't willing to handle the difference based on the charges.  The good news is that Christ knows and understands all the nuanced differences of sin and grievous acts and will be able to resolve these things for both the living and the dead when He comes.
  7. Like
    person0 got a reaction from Grunt in Kyle Rittenhouse   
    I agree 100% that they were in the wrong and that they are guilty of something.  The problem is, I don't think they are guilty of murder in the same way King Lamoni was guilty of murder, nor in the way Nehor was guilty of murder, nor in the way David was.  It saddens me that our justice system isn't equipped or wasn't willing to handle the difference based on the charges.  The good news is that Christ knows and understands all the nuanced differences of sin and grievous acts and will be able to resolve these things for both the living and the dead when He comes.
  8. Like
    person0 got a reaction from Backroads in Kyle Rittenhouse   
    I agree 100% that they were in the wrong and that they are guilty of something.  The problem is, I don't think they are guilty of murder in the same way King Lamoni was guilty of murder, nor in the way Nehor was guilty of murder, nor in the way David was.  It saddens me that our justice system isn't equipped or wasn't willing to handle the difference based on the charges.  The good news is that Christ knows and understands all the nuanced differences of sin and grievous acts and will be able to resolve these things for both the living and the dead when He comes.
  9. Like
    person0 reacted to Grunt in Kyle Rittenhouse   
    The cases have zero in common.
  10. Love
    person0 reacted to Grunt in A Pentacostal Reads the BoM   
    As a convert to the Church, I've wrestled with this.   I think one of the issues with all most religions, or more specifically the people in them, is the need to have everything answered.  While I certainly have a desire to know everything, I'm OK with not having all the answers.  

    As such, to your question, I'm comfortable saying "beats me".   I don't like that answer.  I'm convinced I'll learn the answer some day, either in this world or the next.  But for now, I don't have one.  

    Testimony is funny.  Not funny "ha ha" but funny odd.  There are things I know with every fiber of my being.  I know the Book of Mormon is scripture.  I know the Law of Chastity blesses me.  I know keeping my covenants have brought me blessings and joy, even the covenants that boggle my mind and I'm half-convinced I'll show up at the Pearly Gates and ask "what about this?" and Christ will chuckle and say "you guys really got that one wrong, good on you for being faithful, though".   But my testimony is my own.  I can share it with you, but you can't make it your own.  I really wish that you could, but you need your own testimony.   

    I also know that we learn line upon line.   I know I was taught things that I was convinced weren't true.  I know I spent days, weeks, and months studying and praying things I couldn't understand, then woke up one morning with near-perfect clarity.   I know I put up my own mental roadblocks without even realizing it.
    I'll also leave you with this:   If you're a Christian, good for you.   If you learn something, or feel uplifted, reading the Book of Mormon or listening to conference talks, that's awesome.   If studying the Bible brings you closer to Christ, good.  These are the things that will keep you on the right path.   You'll learn as you go.
  11. Like
    person0 reacted to Anddenex in A Pentacostal Reads the BoM   
    Let's not play a victim here. Were you planning on doing something that would ban you from this forum? If not, why wouldn't you be welcome to stay on the forum? I am just as capable of being banned from this forum as you would be if we decide to break the rules of the site.
    The scriptures, both Bible and Book of Mormon, are clear as to the purpose of the Holy Ghost. The Holy Ghost clearly will not bear witness of opposing tenets (as both being true which they can't be), which is what you are sharing with regards to your witness.
    The Holy Ghost is a testator of truth, there isn't a "version" of it as you are describing. It is truth. The Book of Mormon is either the word of God or it is not. The Holy Ghost will not bear record of opposing tenets. He will not say to one person, "It is true," and to another, "It is not true." So, the outcome is just as it is -- one is true and one is false.
    You appear to be confusing circular reasoning with additional witness. You have said the Holy Ghost said it is not true. I provided the witness and testimony of another person in the Book of Mormon that will be given at the last day. This witness is either true or false, there is no in between. Either at the last day it will be true, or it will be false.
    I don't know enough about you to say one way or the other as to your efforts. I do know your witness wasn't from the Holy Ghost. It doesn't mean it wasn't experienced, it just wasn't the Holy Ghost. I have beaten the dead horse enough. It is a simple principle of truth, opposing truths can't both be true --- there isn't a version of it as they are opposing. Again, it would be similar to someone saying, by the Holy Ghost, they were informed that Christ was not the Savior of the world but a good prophet. And then someone else saying the opposite, by the Holy Ghost I know Christ is the Savior of the world. Which is the "version"of truth you are presenting. It can't be both, no matter how many times someone says it can, it can't.
    I still wish you all the peace and happiness in this world.
     
  12. Like
    person0 reacted to Anddenex in A Pentacostal Reads the BoM   
    I'm glad you believe in God, Jesus, and the Holy Ghost. I'm glad you believe in the word of God. I never said you weren't a Christian, please don't put words in my mouth; it is a naive way to make a statement. The answer you feel you received wasn't from the Holy Ghost. The Holy Ghost is a testator of truth (John 14:26, Moroni 10: 3:5) not of lies or error.
    To think, or believe, the Holy Ghost will tell, show, or witness someone something is not true when it is true is naive, and clear evidence you have a misunderstanding of the roll of the Holy Ghost from scripture.
    Recognizing your answer isn't from the Holy Ghost isn't an assumption, its a reality. I accept you received an answer, it just wasn't from the Holy Ghost. The Holy Ghost is a testator of truth. That is clearly defined in scripture -- not of lies or error. The Holy Ghost will not, and cannot witness both to be true. They are in direct opposition. It will be similar to someone saying they received witness from the Holy Ghost that Christ is not the Savior. I don't need to assume anything. I can call it out for what it is.
    Thus we have the following scripture:
     
     
  13. Like
    person0 got a reaction from Anddenex in A Pentacostal Reads the BoM   
    The truth.  Jesus Christ is the Savior of all mankind.  He paid the infinite price of sin and overcame death and hell to pave the way for us to become clean and to receive eternal life.  The Spirit testifies of this truth.  The truth is absolute, and God makes it known to man by the power of the Holy Ghost.  It is the absolute and eternal truth that determines what religious beliefs are right and wrong.
    What you are describing here is not something that is possible.  The Holy Ghost will not and cannot give two conflicting answers to the question, "Is Jesus Christ the Son of God and the Savior of Mankind?"  He likewise will not and cannot give conflicting answers to the question, "Is the Book of Mormon a true book and the Word of God?"
    This has nothing to do with what we can or cannot accept, it solely pertains to what is and what is not.  The question at hand is not dependent on other factors such as what is proper for you to eat as compared to me based on the differences in our physical health.  Either the answer and testimony we have interpreted is true or it is not.  The same applies to you.  These conflicting answers are mutually exclusive.  God is not the author of confusion, He is no respecter of persons, He is the same yesterday, today and forever.  If one cannot rely upon Him to give identical answers to the same question regarding individual facts, then God could not be a trusted source of information, and ultimately could not be the object of our reverence, praise, and worship.  The naivety comes in believing God can or would ever contradict Himself when speaking to different individuals.
    I am a child of God and an emissary of Christ.  I am a holder of His holy priesthood.  It is by Christs authority that I declare His truth.  I desire only to witness of that which is right.  I know the Book of Mormon is true, and that Christ is the only way whereby mankind may be saved.  The Holy Ghost has made this known unto me and He can and will make it known unto you.  It is not I, not any other man that has established this as God's truth, but God Himself has done it.  If you believe He has made known unto you something different, then at a minimum, you must also believe that I and others have misunderstood or misinterpreted the answer we received.  But I know the answers I have received are correct and true, and therefore, I invite you to come to the knowledge that the answer you believe you received, came not from God.  I invite you to repent and to seek after this truth once more as you claim to have done in the past.  You are endowed with the freedom to reject this, and to disbelieve it, but it will not make it any less true.  I testify of these truths with boldness stemming from the love I have for you as my sister in Christ, and the desire for your eternal salvation in the Kingdom of God, through Christs atoning grace, and I do so in His name.
  14. Okay
    person0 got a reaction from DennisTate in A Pentacostal Reads the BoM   
    The truth.  Jesus Christ is the Savior of all mankind.  He paid the infinite price of sin and overcame death and hell to pave the way for us to become clean and to receive eternal life.  The Spirit testifies of this truth.  The truth is absolute, and God makes it known to man by the power of the Holy Ghost.  It is the absolute and eternal truth that determines what religious beliefs are right and wrong.
    What you are describing here is not something that is possible.  The Holy Ghost will not and cannot give two conflicting answers to the question, "Is Jesus Christ the Son of God and the Savior of Mankind?"  He likewise will not and cannot give conflicting answers to the question, "Is the Book of Mormon a true book and the Word of God?"
    This has nothing to do with what we can or cannot accept, it solely pertains to what is and what is not.  The question at hand is not dependent on other factors such as what is proper for you to eat as compared to me based on the differences in our physical health.  Either the answer and testimony we have interpreted is true or it is not.  The same applies to you.  These conflicting answers are mutually exclusive.  God is not the author of confusion, He is no respecter of persons, He is the same yesterday, today and forever.  If one cannot rely upon Him to give identical answers to the same question regarding individual facts, then God could not be a trusted source of information, and ultimately could not be the object of our reverence, praise, and worship.  The naivety comes in believing God can or would ever contradict Himself when speaking to different individuals.
    I am a child of God and an emissary of Christ.  I am a holder of His holy priesthood.  It is by Christs authority that I declare His truth.  I desire only to witness of that which is right.  I know the Book of Mormon is true, and that Christ is the only way whereby mankind may be saved.  The Holy Ghost has made this known unto me and He can and will make it known unto you.  It is not I, not any other man that has established this as God's truth, but God Himself has done it.  If you believe He has made known unto you something different, then at a minimum, you must also believe that I and others have misunderstood or misinterpreted the answer we received.  But I know the answers I have received are correct and true, and therefore, I invite you to come to the knowledge that the answer you believe you received, came not from God.  I invite you to repent and to seek after this truth once more as you claim to have done in the past.  You are endowed with the freedom to reject this, and to disbelieve it, but it will not make it any less true.  I testify of these truths with boldness stemming from the love I have for you as my sister in Christ, and the desire for your eternal salvation in the Kingdom of God, through Christs atoning grace, and I do so in His name.
  15. Okay
    person0 got a reaction from DennisTate in A Pentacostal Reads the BoM   
    I struggle to understand how a Christian can study the Book of Mormon in depth and come away from it without reaching one of two conclusions:
    1)  It is the Word of God as is the Bible
    2)  It is not the Word of God, but if not, the Bible must not be either
    I tend to automatically assume that one who reads the Book of Mormon and doesn't believe it to be true could not have fulfilled Moroni's promise, or they cast out the witness they received.  It is a very direct promise: ". . .he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost."  On a separate but related note: If I were to ever leave the Church, the only other option is atheism / agnosticism.  It just seems too obvious to me that other religions are just as (if not more) flawed as detractors claim ours to be.
  16. Like
    person0 reacted to Anddenex in A Pentacostal Reads the BoM   
    That's fine. I'm perfectly fine with others and their personal belief system, but this isn't what we are discussing. God is not an author of confusion, and if He says Jesus Christ is his son, and then someone says, "God told me Christ isn't his son." Both witnesses can't be true. One is right, and one is wrong. There is no way around it.
    If God says, "You shall know by the power of the Holy Ghost these things are true." And a person says God told me it is false. They both can't be true. What make a spiritual experience greater or of more value. The answer is simple -- truth. If as a Christian you think a person saying God said, "Christ is not his son," is the same as the witness that Peter received of the Messiah -- than we are fooling ourselves into believing all Spiritual experiences are the same. They are not in this regard.
    I choose to believe God's words. That we can know with certainty of truth and our belief system. If you don't choose to believe such, then that is fine. You can believe as you wish. If we are unable to know for a "certainty" then what's the purpose of the Holy Ghost or answer to prayers?
    I do enjoy a lot of quotes from Socrates; however, do you think Christ "knew" he was the Son of God, or do you think it was a mere belief system? I would specify he knew for certain he was the Son of God. He knew for certain what he was about to accomplish on Golgatha. I prefer to believe in Christ's words when it comes to his gospel.
  17. Like
    person0 got a reaction from Anddenex in A Pentacostal Reads the BoM   
    So are you a universalist or something?  It sounds like you believe all paths lead back to God. 
    On a contradictory note, this statement as a question makes no sense in relation to your claim to having received an answer that the Book of Mormon is not true. If you believe that all religions can be right, there's no reason you couldn't have simply chosen to be a member of the Church, and more importantly, if those religions you named are not wrong, why would ours be?  By that question I mean to suggest that your own logic indicates it would not be possible to have received an actual answer from God that the Book of Mormon is not true.
    As a related aside.  The things you are saying really point more and more to validate my statement that you must have not fulfilled God's promise as declared by Moroni.  You are beginning to write in ways that indicate you adhere to what we commonly refer to as the philosophies of men mingled with scripture.
    Once again, I have no intention of meanness, but I will be bold in my testimony of the truth of God.
  18. Like
    person0 reacted to Anddenex in A Pentacostal Reads the BoM   
    Right, which means the witness will come, especially if they meet the requirements. The responsibility falls upon us, not God. God is always ready to give witness.

    EDIT: And you are making an assumption that it is just the Book of Mormon. You will notice from my comment I also addressed those who received witness that Christ was the Son of God while he was upon the earth and those who didn't. Did the people who didn't receive witness while Christ walked the earth and spoke, is it not their fault? Yes, it is. The sole responsibility is ours. If a person sincerely, with real intent, and faith in God followed Christ or heard Christ speak for two years and still did not receive witness of his divinity -- yes I would not need to assume anything it is clearly manifest. The same for the Book of Mormon. What Father would withhold witness from any of his children if they are meeting the requirements -- none, especially if they are perfect.
    If we don't receive witness, as in such a direct statement from the Lord, then yes, it is easy to see we are doing something wrong on our end not to receive a witness.
  19. Like
    person0 reacted to Anddenex in A Pentacostal Reads the BoM   
    I would agree with you if the promise we are discussing were to be coming from "man" and not from God. Within the promise provided the Lord provides conditions and stipulations to receiving a witness from him:
    Conditions:
    1) Remember how merciful the Lord has been to his children
    2) Ponder these things in your heart
    Stipulations: Ask with
    1) Sincere heart
    2) Real intent
    3) Faith in Christ
    Promise:
    * You will receive a manifestation from the Holy Ghost that these things are true.
    If a person has fulfilled all of the above and has received no witness then this would make God a liar, and we know God is a God of truth and cannot lie. As such, the default then falls back upon us, and always will fall upon us. It will never fall upon God.
    In these cases, if a person remains without "witness" which we know wouldn't be true if they followed the given conditions and stipulations, they will one day (if at judgement) see every witness God gave by the power of the Holy Ghost by which they were past feeling. Otherwise once again, God would be a liar.
    This goes back to Christ living among the Jews. Why were there some who received witness that he was the Son of God, the prophesied Messiah, and why were those there who did not receive the same witness? God's fault, or does the responsibility and accountability fall upon us? Is God unable to provide according to his promises? No. Then the default is always at us -- individual accountability and responsibility.
    This isn't arrogant, nor does it have any hubris, because we recognize God is a God of truth and cannot lie and it is his promise.
  20. Like
    person0 got a reaction from Anddenex in A Pentacostal Reads the BoM   
    I haven't done that.
    It is neither you nor I, but God's promise, as declared by Moroni, that establishes that everyone will receive a testimony of the Book of Mormon by the power of the Holy Ghost, if they properly adhere to the requirements of the promise as it pertains to their individual situation, assuming they 'do not cast it out by [their] unbelief'.
    I believe this is unrelated.  The Book of Mormon being true has nothing to do with whether or not some other Church policy, teaching, or statement is true.  If one disagree's, they are free to take it up with God and Moroni, who also promised, "God shall show unto you, that that which I have written is true."
    It is not my intent to be hard.  I desire that all understand that they will come to know the Book of Mormon is true by the power of the Holy Ghost when they follow the prescribed way to obtain a witness as it pertains to their circumstances.  Otherwise, God would be a respecter of persons.
  21. Like
    person0 got a reaction from Anddenex in A Pentacostal Reads the BoM   
    I mean no disrespect, but I know the Book of Mormon is true by the power of the Holy Ghost.  It cannot be true for some and not true for others.  If you believe you have not received an answer, there is either something missing from your methodology, or from the way you seek, interpret, or accept answers from God.  If you truly want to know it is true, and are willing to act upon a personal witness and confirmation, as a community, we would love to help you dissect and enhance your process of seeking and finding, so that you may not only receive, but also recognize the witness God has prepared for you.
  22. Like
    person0 got a reaction from Backroads in A Pentacostal Reads the BoM   
    I haven't done that.
    It is neither you nor I, but God's promise, as declared by Moroni, that establishes that everyone will receive a testimony of the Book of Mormon by the power of the Holy Ghost, if they properly adhere to the requirements of the promise as it pertains to their individual situation, assuming they 'do not cast it out by [their] unbelief'.
    I believe this is unrelated.  The Book of Mormon being true has nothing to do with whether or not some other Church policy, teaching, or statement is true.  If one disagree's, they are free to take it up with God and Moroni, who also promised, "God shall show unto you, that that which I have written is true."
    It is not my intent to be hard.  I desire that all understand that they will come to know the Book of Mormon is true by the power of the Holy Ghost when they follow the prescribed way to obtain a witness as it pertains to their circumstances.  Otherwise, God would be a respecter of persons.
  23. Like
    person0 got a reaction from Backroads in A Pentacostal Reads the BoM   
    I struggle to understand how a Christian can study the Book of Mormon in depth and come away from it without reaching one of two conclusions:
    1)  It is the Word of God as is the Bible
    2)  It is not the Word of God, but if not, the Bible must not be either
    I tend to automatically assume that one who reads the Book of Mormon and doesn't believe it to be true could not have fulfilled Moroni's promise, or they cast out the witness they received.  It is a very direct promise: ". . .he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost."  On a separate but related note: If I were to ever leave the Church, the only other option is atheism / agnosticism.  It just seems too obvious to me that other religions are just as (if not more) flawed as detractors claim ours to be.
  24. Love
    person0 reacted to NeuroTypical in Kyle Rittenhouse   
    Someone brought up a take on the whole Rittenhouse news that I hadn't considered.  Folks who bear the burden of having been sexually assaulted, or know someone who has, know how it can sometimes bring a lifelong struggle to just live on the same planet as their rapist.  There are three men out there, in their late '20's or early '30's, who heard the news that their rapist got himself shot to death while rioting in Kenosha.   While one can hope they don't take savage glee in the fact, I absolutely hope they are able to use the news to heal a bit more. 
  25. Like
    person0 got a reaction from askandanswer in A Pentacostal Reads the BoM   
    I struggle to understand how a Christian can study the Book of Mormon in depth and come away from it without reaching one of two conclusions:
    1)  It is the Word of God as is the Bible
    2)  It is not the Word of God, but if not, the Bible must not be either
    I tend to automatically assume that one who reads the Book of Mormon and doesn't believe it to be true could not have fulfilled Moroni's promise, or they cast out the witness they received.  It is a very direct promise: ". . .he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost."  On a separate but related note: If I were to ever leave the Church, the only other option is atheism / agnosticism.  It just seems too obvious to me that other religions are just as (if not more) flawed as detractors claim ours to be.