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Backroads

Kyle Rittenhouse

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I can’t say I’m l am “glad” that he got acquitted because I think he went out asking for trouble. He should have stayed home. If he was my son I’d be disappointed in him. He also has to live the burden of killing two people for the rest of his life. 

 However, I do think justice was served in the long run. 
 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/620715/  

Edited by LDSGator

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1 hour ago, LDSGator said:

I can’t say I’m l am “glad” that he got acquitted because I think he went out asking for trouble. He should have stayed home. If he was my son I’d be disappointed in him. He also has to live the burden of killing two people for the rest of his life. 

 However, I do think justice was served in the long run. 
 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/620715/  

That's kind of where I am.

Do I think he's a kid who did some dumb things and went in over his head? Absolutely.

But I don't think we can prosecute on our mere disproval. 

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7 minutes ago, Backroads said:

That's kind of where I am.

Do I think he's a kid who did some dumb things and went in over his head? Absolutely.

But I don't think we can prosecute on our mere disproval. 

Oh agree. 

Now he has to ask himself every day if it was worth it. He’ll also probably have to file for bankruptcy in order to avoid his paycheck getting garnished for the rest of his life when the civil suit comes down. And it will. He also gets to look over his shoulder for the next twenty years and worry about lunatics seeking vengeance. So in reality, his life has not even started to become chaotic yet. 

All of this could have been avoided if he stayed home and played Playstation that night. 

Edited by LDSGator

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47 minutes ago, Grunt said:

Funny watching people blame this kid for the deaths of violent rioters that assaulted him.

Right! All this could have been avoided if the rioters would have stayed home and just smoked their weed instead.

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7 hours ago, LDSGator said:

Oh agree. 

Now he has to ask himself every day if it was worth it. He’ll also probably have to file for bankruptcy in order to avoid his paycheck getting garnished for the rest of his life when the civil suit comes down. And it will. He also gets to look over his shoulder for the next twenty years and worry about lunatics seeking vengeance. So in reality, his life has not even started to become chaotic yet. 

All of this could have been avoided if he stayed home and played Playstation that night. 

I think you are assuming the civil suits will be successful and also assuming he will not succeed in lawsuits against major media outlets who maliciously defamed him.  If Nick Sandman was able to settle for millions, I'm sure we can assume Kyle will be able to do the same, if not more, given the more egregious level of defamation and the impact to livelihood of being falsely labeled a murderous white supremacist.

I am less concerned about his safety and financial stability and more concerned about what he will choose to do with his life and if he will strive to become a better man.  He showed enormous restraint in deciding when to use and when not to use his weapon; given how young he still is I hope his acquittal doesn't go to his head and lead him to change for the worse.

Edited by person0

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9 hours ago, person0 said:

I think you are assuming the civil suits will be successful and also assuming he will not succeed in lawsuits against major media outlets who maliciously defamed him.  If Nick Sandman was able to settle for millions, I'm sure we can assume Kyle will be able to do the same, if not more, given the more egregious level of defamation and the impact to livelihood of being falsely labeled a murderous white supremacist.

I am less concerned about his safety and financial stability and more concerned about what he will choose to do with his life and if he will strive to become a better man.  He showed enormous restraint in deciding when to use and when not to use his weapon; given how young he still is I hope his acquittal doesn't go to his head and lead him to change for the worse.

Oh those are all great points, but would you rather deal with civil lawsuits and needing round the clock protection for the rest of your life, or would you rather just lead a normal, quiet life? 
 

Plus the champions of self defense never act like the consequences matter. Yes he was only defending himself and in this case he was justified despite his stupidity, but he still killed two people. That has a big effect on you mentally unless you're a sociopath. I don't see anyone on the right asking about his mental health since the shooting.

The kid clearly lacks common sense , because he made his life insanely difficult from this point on. He went out looking to play tough guy/vigilante and while he’s 100% within his rights, that hardly makes him a moral hero. And, no matter how good you are with a gun and how tough you think you are, being hated by, oh, 35% of the population will get to you. Especially if they want to do what you did and play that card. Being the greatest shot in the world means nothing if someone gets you by surprise. 
 

So, good luck Kyle. You will need it. 

Edited by LDSGator

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17 hours ago, LDSGator said:

Oh agree. 

Now he has to ask himself every day if it was worth it. He’ll also probably have to file for bankruptcy in order to avoid his paycheck getting garnished for the rest of his life when the civil suit comes down. And it will. He also gets to look over his shoulder for the next twenty years and worry about lunatics seeking vengeance. So in reality, his life has not even started to become chaotic yet. 

All of this could have been avoided if he stayed home and played Playstation that night. 

His dad lives in Kenosha and he has other relatives who live there, so he really *did* think he was protecting everything. 

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1 hour ago, LDSGator said:

That has a big effect on you mentally unless you're a sociopath.

If by big effect you mean negative effect, not so sure I agree with that statement.  There are plenty of people in the scriptures who disliked killing but did so every time they considered it necessary to protect themselves and their loved ones.  The fact that there should be no joy in killing doesn't mean the effect must be negative.  Nephi slew Laban, it had a big effect, but I think the biggest effect was that Nephi learned that violence (and even killing) is sometimes the answer, and the right course of action, to the point of being sanctioned and even encouraged by God.  Captain Moroni -- one of the most righteous men to ever live, a man whom the prophet Mormon sought to emulate and after whom he named his son -- justly and with God's blessing and inspiration, put people to death just for refusing to be drafted for the cause of freedom on at least two separate occasions.

As for Kyle, I am hoping the effect this has on him is simply to encourage him to no longer participate in such things, unless it is his own property or the time comes when there is truly no other choice but to take up arms, as the prophecies indicate.

1 hour ago, LDSGator said:

. . . would you rather deal with civil lawsuits and needing round the clock protection for the rest of your life . . .

As for me personally, or course not.  There are people who have to deal with that even without doing anything foolish, though.  It is unfortunate, but depending on if they get tossed out (I think they likely will now that he's been acquitted), that could be a part of his life now, and he will have to learn to deal with it.  On an interesting note, many ancient prophets voluntarily and knowingly subjected themselves to that for the sake of preaching the gospel.  For Rittenhouse, he did something foolish, but the result of his foolish action has set a precedent that I believe this country desperately needed reasserted in our day and time.

Quote

. . . being hated by, oh, 35% of the population will get to you. . .

He was going to be hated by them anyway.  He certainly found out at a little younger age than most people though. 😄

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1 hour ago, LDSGator said:

Plus the champions of self defense never act like the consequences matter. Yes he was only defending himself and in this case he was justified despite his stupidity, but he still killed two people. That has a big effect on you mentally unless you're a sociopath. I don't see anyone on the right asking about his mental health since the shooting.

Raises hand.  Me.  I'm worried about his mental health, and what his life will look like going forward.  My daughter is 17, wife and I can't even imagine what it would be like to have a kid who has killed twice before turning 18.  It's sobering.

Additionally, in all my to-ings and fro-ings in my 2nd amendment enthusiast circles, the serious and smart people all understand that taking a life changes yours forever.  Part of my recurring handgun training I get, includes a refresher course on the consequences of a defensive use.   Mental health impacts, losing friends and family over it, getting fired and kicked out of a career over it is just one aspect.   Additionally, Kyle isn't done with being sued yet.  The criminal case may be over, but the civil cases will now start.

Quote

The kid clearly lacks common sense ... He went out looking to play tough guy/vigilante

Let's harken back to the summer of 2020, with a tale of two protests turned violent:

Protest #1, Provo UT, June/July 2020

Of all the nationwide protests in the wake of George Floyd that turned violent and destructive, we saw some In Provo break out the end of June 2020.  The first night, they shot a 60 yr old man trying to drive past the people blocking the road.   Here - The BYU newspaper still has the video up.  https://universe.byu.edu/2020/06/30/two-sides-collide-leading-to-march-down-university-ave/  Watch it.  Then watch it again.  Then put yourself into the shoes of Provo residents, as they watch the video, and hear that the protesters are mad, ennobled, and planning another protest the next night.

The next day, there's probably 150 protesters on one side of the street, getting ready.  On the other side of the street we find 300+ copiously armed residents, standing there calmly and making powerful eye contact with the protesters.   The 2nd protest does not turn violent.  My cool old uncle, who was one of the copiously armed ones, goes home after a nice quiet protest.  The brigham young statue eventually gets vandalized, maybe some windows broken, and unrest basically fizzles out and dies in Provo. 

 

Protest #2, Kenosha Wisconsin, August 2020

The Jacob Blake shooting enraged protesters and brought new life into the BLM movement, who took to the streets in protest.  There was property damage, arson, and violent clashes with the police.  Kenosha had already formed a citizens militia group, created by a former alderman.  August 25, the former alderman put out a call for "patriots willing to take up arms and defend" Kenosha, which received national and international news.   Rittenhouse was one of the ones who showed up.   He went to a car dealership that had suffered over a million dollars in damage previously.  We all can read as much about what happened there as we care to.

 

I don't see how anyone sitting at a computer in another state could possible say for sure that Kyle lacked common sense or that he was looking to play tough guy/vigilante.  I'm as big a fan of armchair quarterbacking as the next guy, but I also know my Uncle, and hundreds of other folks interested in protecting communities.  After two days of rioting and burning in Colorado Springs, I was about ready to look for a similar group of concerned citizens to augment our police forces.  My county's Sheriffs and city police would probably have helped us organize and given us tasks.  But Colorado Springs went the way of Provo, and after a few flipped and burning cars, things quieted down.

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4 minutes ago, person0 said:

He was going to be hated by them anyway.  He certainly found out at a little younger age than most people though. 😄

Oh, agree. But it's a vastly different kind of hate here. Joe might “hate” Steve because of arguments and political differences, but Joe and Steve probably won’t end up killing one another in a shootout. Rittenhouse now has a legit concern of being shot when he leaves his house for the rest of his life. 

 

7 minutes ago, person0 said:

by big effect you mean negative effect, not so sure I agree with that statement

No worries, I obviously see it differently. They probably offer mental health counseling to cops who have to use lethal force, so it’s obvious that even in the “best” cases it has an effect on you. 

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1 minute ago, NeuroTypical said:

Raises hand.  Me.  I'm worried about his mental health, and what his life will look like going forward.  My daughter is 17, wife and I can't even imagine what it would be like to have a kid who has killed twice before turning 18.  It's sobering.

Additionally, in all my to-ings and fro-ings in my 2nd amendment enthusiast circles, the serious and smart people all understand that taking a life changes yours forever.  P

 Good, makes me feel much better. However, it’s not what I’ve seen from my observations on social media at this time. 

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2 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

They probably offer mental health counseling to cops who have to use lethal force, so it’s obvious that even in the “best” cases it has an effect on you.

I don't disagree that it can sometimes happen, I just disagree that it is something we can assume.

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7 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

The Jacob Blake shooting enraged protesters and brought new life into the BLM movement, who took to the streets in protest.  There was property damage, arson, and violent clashes with the police. 

The riots and lawlessness bother me as well. 

Edited by LDSGator

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16 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

My daughter is 17, wife and I can't even imagine what it would be like to have a kid who has killed twice before turning 18.  It's sobering.

The mothers of the Army of Helaman volunteered their young sons.   They killed lots of people. God even helped them do it!  😁

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2 hours ago, LDSGator said:

Oh those are all great points, but would you rather deal with civil lawsuits and needing round the clock protection for the rest of your life, or would you rather just lead a normal, quiet life? 
 

Plus the champions of self defense never act like the consequences matter. Yes he was only defending himself and in this case he was justified despite his stupidity, but he still killed two people. That has a big effect on you mentally unless you're a sociopath. I don't see anyone on the right asking about his mental health since the shooting.

The kid clearly lacks common sense , because he made his life insanely difficult from this point on. He went out looking to play tough guy/vigilante and while he’s 100% within his rights, that hardly makes him a moral hero. And, no matter how good you are with a gun and how tough you think you are, being hated by, oh, 35% of the population will get to you. Especially if they want to do what you did and play that card. Being the greatest shot in the world means nothing if someone gets you by surprise. 
 

So, good luck Kyle. You will need it. 

I have often wondered how a person that loves freedom and liberty would act if businesses (especially theirs) were being burned (including the destruction of free people's livelihood and ability to make a honest and productive living).  What do freedom and liberty loving people do when a government refuses to protect the very people it has vowed to protect.  There is a saying - "All that is necessary for evil to succeed  is for 'good' people to do nothing."

I do not know the boy Rittenhouse well enough to attach the label of "Stupid".  Having been trained in the military for combat and facing the possibility of combat - I understand principles of combat and I seriously wonder about the rational of someone that openly and deliberately attacks  (goes after) someone with superior armaments - even if that person is a single minor child on their own.   In addition, just because someone is armed does not mean that they intend to cause trouble.  In fact, it can be just the opposite - the idea of superior armaments can just as much be intended as a deterrent - think of general Moroni in the Book of Mormon.

I do agree that Rittenhouse is but a kid that got in way over his head.  But I do think that we need to look at why he got in over his head.  I am concerned that laws that preclude the use of deadly force to protect property - especially when property is the means of someone's legal livelihood.   I am concerned that some are making heroes of those adults that attacked a minor child because they were attempting to protect private property.

Personally - I do not know the minds and hearts of all those involved but I personally stand by our law and court proceedings that, from all that I can determine, acted within the intent and purpose of our laws and constitution which is for the preservation of our freedoms and liberties.  I fully and seriously condemn anyone that rejects our laws and intends unjust revenge or retaliation outside of lawful proceedings - even if they only do so with words or for political purpose.   And if such events as we are seeing continue to unfold and escalate in a civil war for the control of this nation - I have a good idea on which side of this fence I will find myself.

 

The Traveler

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55 minutes ago, person0 said:

The mothers of the Army of Helaman volunteered their young sons.   They killed lots of people. God even helped them do it!  😁

According to my calculations the stripling warriors went into combat around the age of 13 - the age of deacons that pass the securement at church.  I was 17 when I joined the military and had orders for combat in Vietnam.  I can thank my Father in Heaven that I was never required to take another's life but I know well many that have and know well the effect it had.  I wonder and am concerned with what will be required or our current young generation.  I am concerned that they are less prepared (physically, mentally and spiritually) for what is unfolding than past generations.

 

The Traveler

Edited by Traveler

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1 hour ago, person0 said:

The mothers of the Army of Helaman volunteered their young sons.   They killed lots of people. God even helped them do it!  😁

Heh.  The parents of the Stripling Warriors were former gangsta thugs turned peaceniks.

...they took their swords, and all the weapons which were used for the shedding of man’s blood, and they did bury them up deep in the earth. ...rather than shed the blood of their brethren they would give up their own lives;

Sounds like a good plan, right?  Well, we find out what happens to them, three friggin' verses later.

...the Lamanites began to fall upon them, and began to slay them with the sword. And thus without meeting any resistance, they did slay a thousand and five of them.

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12 hours ago, LDSGator said:

Oh those are all great points, but would you rather deal with civil lawsuits and needing round the clock protection for the rest of your life, or would you rather just lead a normal, quiet life? 
 

Plus the champions of self defense never act like the consequences matter. Yes he was only defending himself and in this case he was justified despite his stupidity, but he still killed two people. That has a big effect on you mentally unless you're a sociopath. I don't see anyone on the right asking about his mental health since the shooting.

The kid clearly lacks common sense , because he made his life insanely difficult from this point on. He went out looking to play tough guy/vigilante and while he’s 100% within his rights, that hardly makes him a moral hero. And, no matter how good you are with a gun and how tough you think you are, being hated by, oh, 35% of the population will get to you. Especially if they want to do what you did and play that card. Being the greatest shot in the world means nothing if someone gets you by surprise. 
 

So, good luck Kyle. You will need it. 

In fairness to Kyle:  My understanding of his testimony is that this was night 3 of the Kenosha riots.  He had been out and about in Kenosha on day 2 or 3 and had met the owners of a car lot who had had some property destroyed; they exchanged numbers and he invited them to let him know if he could do anything for them in the future.  Later, they called either him or a mutual acquaintance and asked him to come down and help out (primarily with fire suppression, IIRC); he grabbed the gun, not because he intended to fire or even brandish it, but as insurance in case someone attacked his person.  (The lot owners denied under oath that they had invited him onto their property, but other witnesses corroborated Kyle’s story.)

Now, if I’d learned my kid had gone down there that night with a gun—even if nothing had happened—that gun would absolutely be on eBay first thing in the morning.  But, I don’t think it’s fair to suggest he was trying to play the tough guy/vigilante.  I think first and foremost he had seen a heartbroken victim of previous rioting/looting, wanted to help out, and didn’t want to get killed in the process of doing it.  

Edited by Just_A_Guy

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9 hours ago, Just_A_Guy said:

But, I don’t think it’s fair to suggest he was trying to play the tough guy/vigilante

Understand. Obviously none of us can read his mind, so his motives are known to him only. I do still see it differently but in the end it doesn’t matter I guess. 

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