Grunt

Funny watching people blame this kid for the deaths of violent rioters that assaulted him.

I was thinking of him myself the other day.

Side note: I was at the pharmacy picking up some meds for my wife (COVID, yay) and saw a family dragging their screaming 5 year old into the office for a COVID vaccination. It's crazy how different the views of the COVID vaccine are.

I don't think anyone mistakes your musings as a condemnation. We're having a discussion. I don't even have a firm opinion, it's just a thought exercise. I do these with my team at work regularly. It's how some of our best ideas are shaped. There is no cost to most of the local pods in my area. I'm considering leaving my current job next year and relocating. I've considered relocating and entering education. I've also considered BYU Law.

I'm not sure there will be a critical mass of uneducated folks. I think most parents would continue to ensure their children are educated. In my area we have pods for kids who don't attend school for whatever reason. These are started and run by parents, organizations, and community members, mostly due to issues with the public school system. I think the exception would be, to your point, the parents who currently don't care about their children's education. These children probably fall into the credentialed category you mentioned. The earn a diploma, but have no real application for it. I wonder how many of these children would receive an actual education if they weren't forced to be in school?

Deal with them how? I don't pretend to have all the solutions, but neither do I assert that a society is responsible for the care livelihood of all. If I don't feel strongly enough to knock on your door, ask for money, then beat you up and take it to give to someone else, then I don't feel I have the right to hire someone else to do it.

That's one of my favorite books.

I wouldn't declare it necessary to educate children.

No need to thank me, nor do I believe I'm portraying exceptional kindness, but I sincerely thank you. I'm pretty much an open book. I don't say things here that I don't say in person, at work, or in my ward. I'm pretty much "what you see is what you get". However, and I've mentioned this before, I believe I'm easier to "take" in person. Emotions and intent is often lost in print. That said, I think "condemn" is a perfect word. We all judge, hopefully righteously. However, we don't "pass judgement" or condemn. I think we SHOULD judge, in usage we are now applying. It's important to judge both for ourselves and our children. Judgement is both protective and educational. I too have a difficult time being loving or kind to those making poor choices. I've come to terms with serving them, but I believe that's mostly because I'm trying to compensate with the former. I'm not sure if that makes my service hypocritical or worthy of condemnation. For example, we have one family in our ward that I have a very difficult time with. Consistently making poor choices that puts a burden on others in the ward through their demands and requirements. I probably serve this family more than others and seek out opportunities to do so. I often feel guilty about that service, even though it's performed cheerfully and to the best of my ability, because I hold ill feelings towards them. Sometimes I really have difficulty being a Latter-day Saint.

We always hunted all morning, then came home in the afternoon for an afternoon Thanksgiving dinner.

Maybe. Depends on what parts of your income stream are returned to you. Many different taxes and fees go into the education pot. We'd also have to determine what a "screaming deal" is, and that would likely differ between people and districts. In my district, I'm comfortable with the education my children get and the tax dollars I pay get my children an education I'm happy with, even though it's on the backs of my neighbors. In the last district I lived in, the education could have been free and it wouldn't have been a screaming deal. They would have to pay me to send my kids there. It's also worth pondering, in my opinion, whether it's fair to forcibly take money from my neighbors to send my kids to school. Personally, I don't think it is.

This is my knee-jerk response, so I reserve the right to change my mind after pondering, praying, studying, and reading the insightful replies here. Fair? I think there is a difference between preaching repentance and calling to repentance. Preaching repentance is person-generic. You can even preach repentance for specific sins. Calling to repentance is person-specific: Traveler, you should repent of <this> sin. I'm comfortable preaching repentance, because it is a beautiful gift I partake of daily. I'm uncomfortable calling you to repentance when I have sins of my own. The exception being if your sin is directed at me.

Sure, having dabbled in education at one time and currently very involved with school issues, I assume the parents who toss that out there are the type that when you say "you know what so-and-so said" most people aren't surprised. I absolutely adore 95% of our teachers. They get the job done IN SPITE of most parents and the administrators. I made it my personal goal this year to ensure they didn't spend a dime out of pocket on education.

I think it's really just an individual assessment of risk/benefit. There is zero reason, given the current data, that I would vaccinate my kids. Beyond that, I think age, environment, personal beliefs, and health should drive whether or not you get it.

I don't believe there are many times when it is right to "call someone to repentance". I think, as you say, your example is a reminder to others. However, as I said in an earlier now-deleted post that I believe was misunderstood, I believe it's instructional to others to at times point out sin. For example, if you (generic, not specifically you) are public that you are a Saint, call yourself a Saint, but are in bars or posting pictures on Social media drinking coffee, beer, or otherwise not following your covenants it's not my place to say anything to you (again, not you specifically) but you're sending a mixed message to others who aren't familiar with our covenants, children, etc. I think it is absolutely appropriate to explain to my children, or others in normal conversation, what our covenants actually say and let them draw their own conclusions. Therefore, I believe that calling others to repentance is inappropriate except in limited circumstances but naming sin in education (not in gossip) is not.

Best post of the thread.

We had a few educators laugh at "I pay your salary" threats in my district. The townspeople showed up in force and cut their salaries out of the budget and voted not to renew the contracts of the superintendent, elementary principal, and business manager. They laughed themselves right out of a job. I love small towns.

There isn't a private school that would educate your kids for $1200 a year. The education portion of my state property taxes alone were around 5k last year. I'm not at the high end of the tax bracket, either. For some schools, that may be enough. For other schools, it certainly won't be. However, you'll be paying that higher amount for the time that your children are in school, then you stop paying. Right now, you pay a lesser amount your entire life and have limited options. That changes in a market the government doesn't control.

An interesting side note is we are starting to see this beginning to play out in NH. A portion of your tax money can now follow your children to the school they choose. For example, if my school district provides a crappy education, I can tuition my child to a neighboring school district and he'll take some of my tax dollars with him. We'll see how this plays out for school districts.

Sure. There is always supply and demand. As long as people value education, education will have value. Those who want to teach, and can teach well, will be in demand. It will require educators to provide value as well.

Pay more than what? A LARGE portion of their current tax bill goes towards what is often inadequate education and teacher benefits. Some parents would pay more, others would pay less, and parents could choose the cost/value that is appropriate for their family.

The current issue is private schools are competing with government education. If that was removed, things would change in a free market.

I'll admit I was confused, but I tried to rise to the occasion.

I don't want to meet in the middle, really. I wouldn't meet in the middle on murder or rape, either. I'm also not under the delusion that anything we argue here is going to change anyone's mind. The only reason I bother to address these issues are the same reasons I address what ExMos post here and elsewhere: Truth matters and I refuse to let someone own the public soapbox and create an illusion that their opinion is public opinion. I'll always speak out against wolves in sheep's clothing, even if it is unpopular.

I've gone with more of a self-sustainment method. Our immediate, on hand stores fluctuates with the seasons. My next step will be an underground greenhouse or perhaps two. Right now canning and freezing vegetables is OK, but I'd really like to have fresh veggies for more months of the year. I'm also looking into aquaponics with brown trout, as we don't have any fish stores beyond catching them. When getting started with stores, before adding a self-sustainment model, we built can and box racks in the basement. It was super quick and easy to do as we nailed them right on the wall. Every time we went to the store and bought food for the week, we bought extra. When we use it, we take it from the bottom of the rack, like a soda machine. New purchases went in the top. It didn't take long to build up a supply of food, and it rotates naturally because it's what we use regularly. I actually wrote up a plan for someone awhile back. I should dig it out and revisit it.