JoCa

Blossom76, I commend your willingness to live faithfully by the Christian household ideal. I think it is absolutely wonderful and awesome to see someone not of the LDS faith striving to live their life and family life according to this model. We could use a lot more people in the LDS church such as you and your husband. I don't know how the Catholic Church is weathering the current hellish onslaught against the Scriptures, but it is certainly an interesting time to be in the LDS Church. 15-20 years ago, the LDS Church teachings were very, very strong in the traditional family model (and they still are to a large extent). See https://www.lds.org/topics/family-proclamation?lang=eng&old=true. Now if you read this document put out by the Prophet and the Quorum of the 12 Apostles in 1995 and compare it to what has culturally happened over the last 20 years it is quite stunning. IMO, only individuals with a prophetic vision would have the knowledge, the foresight, the strength to have written a document such as the above. Certainly, the teachings of the Church during my upbringing (and I'm fairly young) have made a heavy, heavy emphasis on the traditional family model with husbands at the head, wives as the scriptures say, children next. Plenty of General Conference talks from Prophets and Apostles have described that the traditional family model works, husbands are to provide, wives are to nurture. Unfortunately, as the world has become more wicked and gone away from God's laws it has also drawn many members of the LDS church too. The messages from the top are still by and large the same . . .unfortunately many of the membership no longer want to hear how the traditional family model is the God ordained model. People claim and want an exception to the rule. There is a cultural shift that has occurred within the LDS church (and anyone who denies it is just blind to the facts). You will generally find that the over 35+ are by and large pretty conservative, but not quite as conservative as the over 50+ and under 35 starts to get very, very culturally liberal. And this is why you will see quite a bit of discussion on this topic on LDS forum boards (forums tend to skew a little more liberal than the general Church populace). Too many of the under 35 have been raised with more the world's view of marriage rather than God's view . . .but it's still better than the world's view so I guess that counts for something. One thing that I have always admired of Catholics is their view on divorce; personally I subscribe more to that view than the cultural LDS view and unfortunately culturally in the LDS Church divorce has become way, way to common (but it is still much, much lower than the world). So boy, we could sure use your families strength (this is besides the fact that the LDS Church was put in place by a legit no kidding Prophet of God :-). Sidenote to the board, IMO these are the types of individuals the Church needs more of (humble followers of Christ). . . not the politically correct crud put out by articles that will remain anonymous on this website that have a socially liberal ideological bent.

I've got no problem with this. A husband's role is to lead and guide . . . unfortunately in today's emasculated, matriarchal society the man's role as leader, guide, protector is trashed and looked down upon. Oh some people might give platitudes to it, but they don't generally mean it-what they mean is that as long as the man agrees with the woman then he can lead, but if at any point the woman disagrees with the man, the man should instantly acquiesce to whatever the woman wants. That's not leadership at all. By virtue of being a leader one is going to make decisions that others don't agree with, it's a fact of life. Ideally, you get everyone's by-in but sometimes it's just not possible. And this attitude unfortunately is in the Church too. And unfortunately most people don't understand what leadership is . . .today they think that leadership means taking a poll of what everyone wants and then based upon the desires of the group saying "whelp everyone wants to do xyz so we should do xyz". I blooming hate that. It's leadership by committee or some other junk. Taking opinions of others if fine, asking for suggestions from time to time is fine but if you make a habit of it you aren't a leader, you're a weak spineless figurehead. And with taking opinions, suggestions etc. it isn't to make a decision based upon someone else's desire, it's to become more informed about the decision itself to make sure there are no blind spots and then making the best decision based upon facts for the ultimate good and goal of the organization, unit, family, etc. So if the husband is saying don't get baptized b/c he wants to control the spouse, he's not a leader, he authoritarian, a brute, and a jerk. If he is saying don't get baptized b/c from a leadership perspective he is concerned that multiple religions in the house will bring up more problems (where do the kids go, does he miss out on going to church with his spouse, what about church activities, what about eternal soul, etc.) then he's being authoritative (i.e. a leader). This is IMO actually the source and cause of so many divorces . . .women in marriage don't want to be lead by their husband they want to lead the family itself and when you do that it turns the God ordained unit and functionality upside down and problems arise. And one cannot lead if the individuals one is supposed to lead don't want to follow. So I say absolutely kudos to this good wife who is doing her best to have a God-ordained marriage and more likely than not over time with an open heart her husband will join the Church.

No worries, I understand you're a cool gator man.

Lol. I take that as a compliment. Thank you very much :-). Oh and if I were that concerned about my words having ill effect on me a la JJ; I probably wouldn't be posting on a message board or if I were I'd have my anonymizer IP address going, going through like 4 tor nodes, 3 fake e-mail addresses, etc. I'd go full tilt man.

Dude . . .just wow man, wow. You know as a side commentary, this comment here starts getting really 1984ish and is what the new modern age of social media, "virtue signaling", and liberal group think want. Shoot, I mean if this is the way US society decides to go . . .it'll get real dang interesting. Plenty of other countries in the history of the world have gone down this route (Mao, Stalin, he who shall not be named, Kim Jon Ill, etc.). Once you start going down this thought process and start going down this route and either start advocating it for yourself (or for others), it's all gone man. Then how you "think" is really determined by the mob and how you "think" is defined only by what the mob wants you to think and don't you dare go outside the allowable opinion or you are damned.

Exactly!! “Just use this really cool silver one,” I coaxed in a sing-songy voice, “It can still grab your eggs! Besides, the red ones are all dirty and in the dishwasher.” Ummmm . . . okay, like a 3 year old is going to understand this . . .lol yeah right. Save your breath and just do what Carborendum said! But yes to the larger picture, by being a parent one learns a whole lot more about life and how too many time we (adults) are really like little tantrum throwing toddlers when it comes to God. He is our Father and we are His Children; He wants us to grow up to become like Him (just like we do with our kids). Part of the process of growing up to become like our Father is to not throw stupid little adult tantrums . . . so yes it puts a whole new light on things.

Absolutely; I completely understand. It would be almost exactly the same if the situation were reversed (i.e. your husband was LDS and you were studying Catholicism). In fact, I would expect nothing less of an individual who is 100% committed to their faith and believes it. Excepting one difference: In the LDS faith we believe that men and women don't have to rely upon the learning of others to gain knowledge about the truth of things. There is one source of Truth and Light, it is to Him that we ultimately look. James 1:5: If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. We believe that you and your husband can directly go to the source of all Truth, to God directly. You can pray and directly ask Him and that God will give you an answer. Sometimes the answer is no, sometimes yes, sometimes the answer is not immediately forthcoming and might take years to get. Moroni 10: 3-5 : 3 Behold, I would exhort you that when ye shall read these things, if it be wisdom in God that ye should read them, that ye would remember how merciful the Lord hath been unto the children of men, from the creation of Adam even down until the time that ye shall receive these things, and ponder it in your hearts.4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.5 And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things Quite frankly, you will never be able to convince your husband of the truth of the Book of Mormon or of the LDS Church by going back and forth in the Bible. The Truth about the LDS Church is found only by reading The Book of Mormon. And the Book of Mormon is based on a very simple principle and doctrine that requires a change in perspective to really know the truth of. The simple truth and principle is: Can God call specific men to be Prophets that have the power, the authority, the gift to receive direct Revelation from God and that can be God's mouthpiece on this earth to the world? That is it. Upon that principle rests everything about the LDS Church. If one does not truly believe that principle, one will never be a member of the Church. Honestly, it is very, very, very easy to believe in a book that was written by men that lived 2000-4000 years ago. It is much harder to believe that a man who lived only 200 years ago could have been a prophet and even harder to believe that men today could be Prophets. And honestly there is no scripture verse that can solve the above question, no wrestling the scriptures that can answer it. Either you believe that God can talk to men and call them to do Holy works or you don't. If one believes that God can actually talk to men and that men can receive direct communication from God then the only way to find out whether a man is a true Prophet of God is to study what they wrote and what they did in their lifetime and then to ask God. By their fruits shall ye know them. Does the Book of Mormon (the fruit) lead people to a better understanding and faith of Jesus Christ and God the Father? The Book of Mormon is the fruit of the prophet Joseph Smith. It is the work that upon everything about the LDS Church rests, if it is not of God the LDS Church falls completely apart. But if it is of God . .. wow . .. just wow that changes everything! In sum, you can't resolve this issue by only going to the Bible, it can only be resolved by reading the Book of Mormon, pondering about it, looking at how it fits in with the other Testaments and by asking God. That's it.

Obviously you have way too much on your plate with all the callings and college. WML, and Seminary teacher can each be very time intensive to do it right. There is a general principle at work (even in the Church) called the 80/20 rule. 80% of the work gets done by 20% of the people. The easiest way to get rid of some of the overload is to grow the 20%. This is something that is often missed when we look to expand and grow the Church. Baptisms are great, but really we need more people who will work in the Church. But people have to find the happy balance, if Church work consumes their life than that may not be healthy. Also remember the Church is not the Gospel and the Gospel is not the Church. The Church is the vehicle which the Gospel travels in but to conflate the two will eventually cause pain and heartache down the road. So in many ways when the Bishop says to read, ponder and pray more . . .it is actually really, really good advice. What he is trying to tell you is to focus more on the Gospel of Jesus Christ rather than on the Church of Jesus Christ. A proper focus on the Gospel of Christ will lead to a proper understanding of how to manage all the various callings and duties of the Church. It will help you understand that in life sometimes things just get dropped on the floor . . . and that's okay! Being guided by the Spirit will help us know when it is okay to drop some stuff on the floor and when it is not okay to drop stuff on the floor. My guess is that your Bishop is also very overloaded. Take your feelings of being overwhelmed and multiple it by 100. As a general principle of leadership, leaders/bosses/Bishops/etc. don't want solve your problems. If you come to your boss with a problem and say, Boss/Bishop we need to do something about this (if he is a good leader) he will throw it right back at you and say well what exactly do you want me to do about it? The best followers (and future leaders) say, "Boss, we have xyz problem, I've thought about it and we should do abc, if you don't approve of abc we should do def. I prefer abc, do I have authorization to proceed?" Don't expect the Bishop to solve your problems for you!!! Take the bull by the horns, know what your callings authorize you to do and then do it keeping the Bishop informed according to how your feel it should be done. Know when you need to ask permission and when you don't (in the church that generally involves money or church resources). With the YSA thing, don't feel bad. It's just the way the world works. Yeah, it sucks but until Christ comes it is that way. Despite all the modern day blather about "racism", "color-blindness" etc. it's just a fact of life, individuals want to associate with other individuals who look like them and think like them, individuals that come from the same socio-economic status. The sooner you understand that fact and learn to just accept it the better off you will be. Yes, there are some people who really don't care what you look like or where you come from (and ideally more of those people should be found in the Church), but in general that just isn't the case. I would suggest find your own socio-economic group that you can hang out with. There are plenty of good people out there who aren't members of the Church who would easily become members of the Church. Obviously don't hang out with bad crowds, but there are plenty of awesome non-members. Finally, I do have a very simple solution that will solve all your problems. GO ON A MISSION!!!!! LIKE NOW!!!!! :-)

You don't know how politics work. It is very, very possible that McCain or the other two were fall guys. If the Majority Leader does his internal polling and finds it's close or whatnot with a bill they don't want passed. They can easily line up a buddy-fall guy. Someone(s) who will kill the bill so that other cowards can vote for the bill and make it look like they really were for it. It gives political cover to other weasels so they can go back to their constituents and say "see it wasn't my fault" when if the bill actually had a chance to pass it they never would have really voted for it. Weasels.

Inconsistency where?? Again it is more ad hominem, attack the message (i.e. JoCa you are an inconsistent hypocrite) rather than the actual message. That is by its very definition ad hominem. But I will explain. 1st difference is we are dealing with two different power structures. They are not, have not and will not be the same until Christ comes. I expect the power structure of the Church, to hold the line against any moral decadence regardless of any societal or political pressure. I expect the power structure of political power in the US to hold the line on a) freedoms and b) a cohesive cultural identity. Sexual morality is extremely important, and yes Trump has been a womanizer, he currently is not a womanizer (nothing has been reported in the last several years). I voted for Trump, not out of any morality issues but b/c I believe he was better than Clinton and could possibly do a lot of good and he has, there has been plenty I don't like too. I'm totally on board with the travel ban, I hate that we have troops in Niger, I'm glad he is trying to repeal ObamaCare, dislike that they are trying to "repeal" without repeal. GOP values are not supposed to mirror LDS values, I have no idea where you got that idea from. If the LDS Church wanted a political party to mirror their ideals, they'd have their own political party . . .the Latter-Day Theology Party or something. As far as to your bold . . .they are just a bunch of hypocrites. They are just like the women against Harvey Weinstein. Everyone in Hollywood knows the "casting couch" goes on, everyone knows if you want to make it big you generally sleep your way to the top. Those who now decry Weinstein are just a bunch of weasels, cowards and hypocrites. They can come out now against him b/c they feel safe to do so, they get all these great acolades for doing so and they are hailed as heroes. Except where were they when they first found out about it. Did they do anything then . ..no they keep their mouth shut and just either ignored it or played the game. Total complete weasels with no spine. That's how the GOP is; oh those self-righteous weasels feel it's important now to come out against Trump to "take a stand", they are all up in indignation and self-righteousness about how "immoral" he is . . .except they know the entire political structure is full of Gadianton Robbers, slimeballs, weasles etc. Just like the Fusion GPS. That in my book is criminal collusion with a foreign government. That's good they are hitting the Dems on it now . . .but it was the GOP who started the thing. So there are some individuals within the GOP who basically committed treason (i.e. receiving aid from a foreign enemy to further their own political gains). My guess is that some of these self-righteous "Never-Trumpers", the Romney's, Cruz's, etc. were deep in the weeds on this stuff and initially committed treason. I absolutely wish there had been another Trump-like candidate without the morality issues, but their wasn't. If you want to talk about Christian values . . .dude it's dead. I wish that weren't the case, but there are some very, very telling signs as to how Christian values in this country is dead. So please spare me this "you are a hypocrite". I've been critical on maybe one or two items that the Church does, and no I refuse to be a blooming lock-step, blind-obedience lemming. I think I can be critical on a few things without delving into "evil-speaking" and if I can't then yeah the critics really are right it becomes a "cult". Because that's what cults are-they allow 0 dissent, you dissent in the slightest way you are branded a heretic. And trust me as time goes on, I'm sure I'll find more and more things to be critical of Trump. But to say that someone is inconsistent or hypocritical b/c they refuse to conflate political power with religious power and b/c they have differing standards of what to expect from each of them and to shoot down their ideas over that. That is ad hominem and is getting on a rameumpton. As to my defense of the statement you are asking . . .it's what I think-it's an opinion. Deal with it. Perfect example, Flake voted to go to war with Iraq, which directly resulted in the needless deaths of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of innocent children. Where was his "moral" LDS conscience then? He is directly responsible for thousands if not hundreds of thousands of deaths . . .he and anyone who voted to authorize war against Iraq has literal blood on their hands. I'd say killing a bunch of innocent civilians in one of the first totally un-justified non-Christian war (i.e. we were not attacked, we were not about to be eminitely attacked, etc. Just War theory did not allow for the US to attack Iraq) in US history classifies him as a hypocrite. Oh he can be all contrite now about how we need to have moral and ethical immigration policies yet where was his morality when he voted to kill his fellow brothers and sisters? I'd also say matters of war, life and death (killing innocents, thousands of soldiers dead, wounded, etc. trillions more in debt) is just a little bit more important than whether Trump says bad words and messes around.

Well Flake did vote for the amnesty bill and for that he should be skewered. For that . . .get him out of there. Please give me a break (to the bold). Harry Reid stands against Trump should I give him back-rubs??? You're own hyperbole and hypocrisy stinks. I actually didn't even know Flake was LDS until you mentioned it . . .maybe you can't see the forest for the trees? (i.e. the forest of politics b/c of your own view of focusing on whether someone is LDS or not). It's like the person who decries racism, racism, racism when someone is critical of another individual and then the person who is critical says . . . I didn't know he was black-I'm blind. Your own bias and hypocrisy is showing. Oh and you can get off your "holier than thou" rameumpton . . .b/c I've got news for you every single congressman with the exception of a very, very small few are all scumbags, scoundrels, liars, thieves, corrupt evil men, they are Gadianton Robbers. LDS or not, doesn't matter; power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely. So spare me your drivel about this being b/c Flake is making a "moral" stand. And FYI, you have a really, really, bad habit of ad hominem attacks vs. just simply addressing the argument . . .maybe it's b/c you have no argument to make and can only "win" by insulting the other party vs. addressing the concern.

They were mounting major opposition, but only in as much to stay in power. Now that Trump is President, we are really finding out which Rs were opposing just b/c the other side had a D by their name and which ones were opposing b/c they truly believed in conservative principles. Sorry Just_A_Guy but if you want to crow about how bad Trump is for the R party, it doesn't hold water as all the Rs had to do with ObamaCare was to pass the same dang bill they passed 30+ times when O was Pres. Don't give me this "filibuster crap" either . . .their are plenty of ways around it that the Ds have used for years. They couldn't do that, so any and all Rs who stand in opposition to that should immediately be kicked to the curb as two-faced liars and swamp creatures. I think Flake has a pretty good voting record (better than most) so for that I'll be sad to see him go . . . but I'm not sad him go with his opposition to solid enforcement of immigration policy (bye, bye). Flake and the other Rs that are leaving have actively picked fights with the President, they get into twitter wars and whatnot . . .and most of it isn't b/c they are standing on principle . .. it's just b/c he isn't a part of the "in" group so they are pissed off and pick fights with him . . . so screw 'em. I have absolutely 0 problem with loyal opposition, Rand Paul has opposed several of the Presidents proposals and his father before him opposed a ton of the party line crap. But there is a difference between opposing policies and consistently actively trying to take down a president, in an attempt to role back the clock wishing someone else were pres. These Flakes (pun intended) rather than opposing on principle (which I could understand) are opposing based on power . .. the very thing you decry.

Really . . . read mormonandgays much?

I agree to a very large extent. I really do . . .but again the Church's message is muddled. When you have Deseret Books (owned by the Church) publishing Christoferson's book vs. what Uchtdorf says . . . The current message the Church has (as put out by the mormonandgays website) is what Elder Utchdorf says is true as long as it doesn't involve homosexuality. I grant that in every other aspect the Church holds the line with regards to Utchdorf's message but if it involves homosexuality . . .welp good luck. So we currently have an exception to this ideology for homosexuality (and yes it is an exception) . . .as soon as you have one exception you will eventually get more. Either God can change everyone, every single one regardless or He can't.

It makes at least two of us. Absolutely, the miracle, the beauty, the wonder, the glory of the Gospel is that fact that through Christ we can change. No matter, who we are, what we've been through, no matter our old habits, our old patterns of life, our old thinking. The Gospel through Christ can and does change the very essence and core of who we are, it changes how we think, how we feel, who we are, everything! It's glorious, wonderful! How awesome it is! It makes me want to scream it from the rooftops. God through Christ can truly change us! Whereas before we were dead, now we am alive in Christ. Trust me, I'm not pleased about it . . .I firmly believe in that modern day Prophets and Apostles. I do not believe that some of the current ideologies espoused in Church are from God .. . why He is allowing it to be taught in His Church, I honestly do not know. Today in the modern Church, you can openly proclaim you are homosexual, you can get up in Sacrament meeting proclaim it to the world, say "God made me this way and it's just the way he wants me to be" and as long as you add the caveat that you "don't act on it" or advocate for individuals to act on it . .. you are "welcomed and loved" and you are told God loves you just the way you are . . .just don't act on it. Don't believe me . . .see Todd Christoferson's book. It is the Gospel of Christ without Christ.

Amen . . .oh and I LOVE the quote. I like GC today and the stuff they say . . .but man when I read what the Apostles and Prophets were saying in the 70s/80s it just inspires me. It is like "YES!!! that!!!". Unfortunately, Elder Holland's quote: "If there is one lament I cannot abide, it is the poor, pitiful, withered cry, “Well, that’s just the way I am.” If you want to talk about discouraging attitudes, that is one that discourages me." does not work with today's modern Church teaching. The modern Church says when someone says "I'm homosexual, that's just the way I am" . . .okay that's fine just don't act on it. That's a far cry from Elder Holland's quote. Like I've said before, the Church has changed it's teachings . . .

I agree in our lessons we do. Definitely in Priesthood/Relief Society . . . . IMO not so much in Sacrament. In SS . . .maybe.

Totally agree. First off in the modern Church today we do not denounce sin. Honestly, I can't remember the last time I was in a ward sacrament meeting where specific types of sin were denounced. The modern Church culture is to just "love everyone". The only real sin that I can actually think of that is actually denounced in general in church sacrament is pornography. The rest isn't denounced b/c "we all know it's bad", like we don't need to denounce specific types of behavior because everyone in church already "knows" it's bad, so why make people feel worse for condemning it. We all know divorce is bad so in an effort to make those who are going through divorce not feel bad we don't talk about it. We all know homosexuality is bad, so we don't talk about it so as to not make those individuals feel bad. We all know we shouldn't get tatoos so we don't talk about it. We all know we shouldn't do drugs so we don't talk about it. Why . . .because we want to be "inclusive", we want everyone to feel "loved". Well that's great, just because you and I know it's bad . .how do we keep understanding that it's bad and more importantly how to pass down those same beliefs to the next generation. By talking about how it's bad!!! No we don't need more homosexuals, individuals with tattos, people who have or do drugs, pedophiles, etc. We don't need or want any of those types of people. We need more people who are humble followers of Christ, who live their lives the best they can every day to get rid of whatever sins they have and by the grace of God approach His mercy seat. We need individuals who have truly repeated of their sins, who don't take pride in their past sins and who understand what it means to make a covenant with God to become a disciple. This article strikes me as a self-serving "look at how good I am b/c I don't judge other people" clap-trap . .rameumpton. Oh God, look at how good I am b/c I don't "judge" others. I severely dislike this "A friend with a visible tattoo asked our bishop at the time if she should have her quite-visible tattoo removed. He asked why. She explained that some of the Relief Society sisters seemed bothered by it. His wise counsel was “Let them be bothered. That doesn’t say anything about who you are now.” This is false doctrine. If you are showing a tattoo for the world to see, then YES it does represent who you are now. For example, if you have a visible tattoo of a naked lady, and you show it for the world to see, how can you say that "well that doesn't represent who I am". You have visibly marked yourself in a representative way. To show up to church with a naked lady tattoo would be ridiculous. But, I guess b/c the tattoo was a flower or some cutzy thing we can say . . ."that doesn't represent me now". That's right the Bishop's counsel is if I flaunt my sin, and you are bothered by it in Church it is your problem. If you don't want it to represent you, then either cover it up or get it removed. It's why tattoos are a big deal . . .b/c it's a permanent mark of representation. In effect, the Bishop told her tattoos aren't bad, only certain types of tattoos are bad. And obviously most of this articles or people who believe this way either don't have kids or don't understand how to raise them properly. The process of raising children is all about civilization. Parents have the primary responsibility but they get socialized/civilized by Church, school, groups they attend etc. They are sponges and they only way they learn right from wrong is by having it taught to them and the easiest way to teach a child is by example. So when you have openly homosexual members who attend Church, individuals who openly flaunt tattoos, nose-rings, etc. and don't express or teach their repentance process then kids will naturally pick up on it and then when they sin will say . .. it's no big deal b/c soandso did this and they have this or do this and it's no big deal. No . ..we need humble followers of Christ who are not ashamed of Christ, who recognize their sins, who are not afraid to call sin what it is sin and who strive with all their might to repent of their sins, do whatever they can to make restitution for their sins and follow Christ. Right now the teaching we are teaching to our children is that sin doesn't matter all that really matters is that you "love everyone". It can easily become the Church of Christ without Christ in it.

I have . . .it's been a long while, in general I don't have a problem with but it again all goes back to what I was saying. When someone wants it bad enough they will quit and if they don't no amount of "addiction recovery" will help.

Yeah well, I got experience with it too . . .so there. Do you really want to play that game? You tell me what I say is incredibly ignorant. Did you even bother to listen to the audio from a licensed psychologist? No you didn't b/c it challenges your world-view. That's great someone is a temple endowed faithful member . . and Satan attacked Christ, Moses, Abraham, Joseph Smith, etc. that didn't prevent them from having serious problems. What do you think it means when the scriptures tell us that we will "wish the mountains to cover us", no those Men of God were well acquainted with both the Power of God and the power of Satan. If you read the scriptures you will see the prophets mental anguish alive in them. Again you say "in theory some cases of people with a porn addiction could be possessed of an unclean spirit in fact" dude that's a lot of caveats into the "in theory". You sort of want to believe, b/c "in theory there are some cases of people who could in fact have the spirit of God in fact" but really who knows???? Either Satan wants to destroy us or he doesn't. Which is it . . .pick a side. The bold is false. No the "reality" of mental illness is vastly different than the reality of cancer. And in my life, I've dealt with both. One is an actual disease that you can touch, you run tests on, you can extract from the body and see with your own eyes the cancerous material. The "reality" of mental illness is only a mental construct, you can't touch it, you can't extract it, you can't run tests repeatable verifiable tests on it and verify through a non-biased source. Mental illness is a mental construct created by atheistic godless men. The founders of modern psychology were atheist. As proof, homosexuality was once a "mental illness", now it is not. What happened, did any new verifiable science show that it wasn't a "mental illness" no, nothing new happened except a bunch of godless men got together and decided to vote on removing it from being a mental illness. The only thing mental illness has are subjective measure with a few behavioral traits. Subjective as in "how do you feel today", that's not science, that's not cancer. You don't ask a cancer cell . . . oh how are you doing today? Behavioral as in, someone continues to indulge in an action that other people thing is bad, i.e. pornography or some weird trait. That's not science, that's a mental construct. Look if you want to put your faith in a dead, atheistic philosophy that brings no real solutions, be my guest.

Yeah well the older I get in life the more I realize that the Church doesn't have a lock on truth and that not everything the Church says is from God. The vast, vast majority of it is and it is absolutely His Church . . .but not everything that is put out in videos, training, or even spoken in GC is the Word of God. That's why we've been give the Gift of the Holy Ghost, who is a real being, and a real presence. As proof to this the Church admits it; we've heard modern Apostles and Prophets say as much as recently as the recent GC. And bluntly, in the modern Church as a culture we rely more on the philosophies of men to heal the mind/soul rather then on Christ . . .b/c quite frankly you admit it, psychologists admit it they don't know what causes "mental illness". That's great that we have "addiction recovery videos" tell people to go see therapists, etc. If those steps eventually lead people to Christ, to understanding His miraculous power for individuals to really know Him, then that is 100% awesome and it's fantastic, wonderful. If in the process of taking a pill (that statistically speaking is no better than a sugar pill) and through the power of prayer they come to know Him, absolutely it's awesome. But there is a huge danger when you rely upon the arm of flesh, you run a danger of believing the "doctor" healed you or the "medicine" healed you (especially when statistically speaking their pills are like a placebo) .. . rather than acknowledging the source of that healing . . .which is Christ.

Lie of the century. I truly am sorry you are sucked into this philosophy of men and deny the Power of Christ . . .honestly I am. Mental illness is not a hardware problem, it is a pack of lies from the father of lies himself. Why deny the power of Christ? Why deny the power of Satan? The Scriptures, the holy word of God describes evil spirits, devils, etc. Was Christ just telling them lies to conform to their "cultural belief" of devils. Did Christ cast out devils, but really all he was doing was healing mental illness. Quite frankly, being blunt, you have cognitive dissonance. Either the scriptures are true and Christ really did cast out devils and evil spirits from individuals who were taken by Satan, or all he really was doing was just healing people of their mental "hardware defect". So either you believe Christ lied to those He taught, i.e. the scriptures are lying to us when it talks about Christ casting out devils, or you believe that people during His time period didn't have mental illness, or you don't truly believe the Scriptures. There is no middle ground. This is pretty dang simple. If we as Latter-day Saints believe in the Holy Ghost and in the Power of God, we know there are opposing forces, and if there are opposing forces then that means there are evil spirits just as much as there are good spirits. And if there are evil spirits then their objective is to influence people as much as possible to be as miserable and commit as much sin as the Evil One himself. And if they influence people to be totally miserable and commit sin and evil, where would the ultimate desire to commit sinful acts come from? From our hardware?? I don't think so, from the Evil One and His minions. The vast, vast majority of "mental illness" come from Satan himself, unfortunately in today's modern Church we don't talk about it as much as we should but in the early days of the Restored Church it was talked about plenty. But most members have been sucked into the modern philosophies of men. And note just b/c Satan is influencing one doesn't make someone an evil person . . .his purpose is to make us miserable!!! You don't have to be a bad person for him to use his power and influence to make you feel miserable! Don't believe me . . fine. Listen to someone who is a certified psychologist, who has taken the training who was atheist for decades of his life. Converted his life to Christ and started telling the truth about the fraud that psychology is. https://podcast.rosemond.com/?name=2017-09-23_jr_091617.mp3 https://podcast.rosemond.com/?name=2017-10-14_jr_100717.mp3 But no in many cases, in many instances in today's restored Church, we like to think we have Christ, we make platitudes to it, we go to Church on Sunday go home, we enjoy the "cultural aspects of Church". We are so completely converted to Christ as a Church, yet we have to have our Prophet come and specifically talk to us and make a "reemphasizes on Sunday as a holy day". Really???? I mean keeping the Sabbath day holy is one of the basic 10 commandments . . .and as a Church on the whole we are doing such a horrible job of it that the Prophet has to tell us to "re-emphasize" the Sabbath day??? We (as a membership body) can't even keep a basic commandment . . yet we pine for new light and knowledge, we pine for change in the Church that leads us closer to Christ . . .yet again we can't even keep a basic commandment . . . it's quite ludicrous. And I don't say any of this to exempt myself . . .I am a horribly broken man, I'm no better than anyone else, and I've committed plenty of sin in my life. And if by God's grace and His Son's Atonement He lets me into His kingdom, I will weep at His feet. I will be so utterly grateful as my sins are great that I have learned by very, very painful experience of both the powers of Hell and the Power of Heaven and if God cast me out of His Kingdom, He would be justified in doing so . . .so I pray that His Son's mercy will cover my sins. Because I fall short every day, I will never be able to "work my way to heaven", all I can do is honestly, responsibly recognize my sins understand where the source of sin comes from, where the source misery comes from, understand where the source of light and truth comes from and then grow closer and closer to the source of light and truth.

But we are better than them . . .didn't you know. We are the most awesome, bestest country on the face of the planet! We are God's gift to the world, actually we are better than that b/c we don't even need God now. One day, man, one day soon the scriptures will be fulfilled and the wicked shall mourn and it's not gonna be pretty. I truly, truly hope as a people we will repent and turn to God otherwise His wrath will be made manifest and honestly I'd rather than we all just repent and have Him turn away His anger rather than face it. The history of the world and the history in scriptures demonstrates time and time again what happens to a people who forget Him . . . may God have mercy on us, b/c we will need it.

It used to be much of society was structured to teach boys how to become men and girls how to become women . . now it is all jacked up. Outside of the Church, I know of no institution that will know help me teach my son how to become a man and my daughters to become women. And even inside the Church things are rapidly changing . . . . See . . .what a complete weasel. This absolute BS idea that we can allow girls to become Eagle Scouts have a "parallel" program and still keep what makes BSA, BSA. What a lie. Everything in BSA is geared towards teaching boys how to become men and leaders of men. To allow girls to obtain Eagle Scout means that we are no focusing on teaching girls to become men or we will cease to teach boys to become men b/c BSA will so drastically change the program over time to "fit the needs" of our female scouters. What a travesty . . .the requirements will be lowered, just like it has in every organization that sets out to be "gender inclusive". Simply b/c it is a fact of nature that boys/men are stronger, faster, more physical than girls/women . . .it's a fact. And in order to ensure that women don't feel "left behind" any organization that is physical in nature inevitable dumbs down the physical standards just so the females won't feel excluded. And the sad thing is that any boy/man with half a brain knows this but just doesn't say it and eventually when the standards are dumbed down, Boy Scouts no longer becomes challenging . . .it just becomes a social club. What a . . .well I have not nice words for this piece of excrement. And what's even more frustrating is one of the "Big Three" of Boy Scouts is a former Church Young Men General President, who voted for this policy change. I've said it before, there is corruption and evilness . . .All is not well in Zion. Rather than taking a stand, BSA and the Church are bending to social justice warriors. And yes, that is exactly what it is and it is not what I expect. And yes it is exactly what the SJWs want . . . . . one day, one day Christ will come; I hope it happens in my lifetime, 'cuz man otherwise I've got to deal with this crap for the next 50+ years . . .not my idea of a good time. I'm pretty positive in my lifetime we will see true persecution of saints and I'm not talking about "oh I just dislike you" or "I'm gonna get you fired from your job". The Church has had it so good for 100 years it doesn't know what persecution looks like and in the history of the world, true saints have always been persecuted.

For the vast majority of pornography users (in the Church) they don't have a desire to truly strive in this aspect of life as Christ would have them do. They think they do, they'll make platitudes to it, they may even have burning testimonies, even very strong ones. It doesn't change all the good they might do in life or have done or will do. It doesn't change their testimony, it doesn't change that they can be Men of God. There have been Prophets in the Bible who have had lust (some have given into it), have had pride, jealousy, or plenty of other weaknesses. Having this weakness or desire for sin is part of this life's experience to understand how to overcome the natural man. But at the end of the day, (especially for those who have the truth) we can't stand before God and say, "well I had an addiction, I couldn't help it" (i.e. the devil made me do it). Nope, not gonna happen. 34 Ye cannot say, when ye are brought to that awful crisis, that I will repent, that I will return to my God. Nay, ye cannot say this; for that same spirit which doth possess your bodies at the time that ye go out of this life, that same spirit will have power to possess your body in that eternal world. Personally, I think it's gonna be really hard to stand before God at the last day and say "Lord, I did my best I had a real desire to live right". "Did you know about the 10 commandments and live them?" "Yes with all my heart". "What about #10?". "All of them Lord." "You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife; and you shall not desire your neighbor’s house, his field, his male servant, his female servant, his ox, his donkey, or anything that is your neighbor’s.” "What about when I sent my Son and he proclaimed do not lust after a woman?" "Did you not know this commandment and did you not lust after strange women? by your usage of pornography" "Well you see Lord, I was addicted, I couldn't stop . . .it wasn't my fault .. . but I truly do love your Son" "Then why did you deny His power to change you?" (silence). As the very, very good brother above articulates, for those who are truly addicted (and even those who aren't truly addicted), when in this aspect of your life you have a real desire to follow Christ and obey His law. Come Hell or High Water, you will do it, you will escape it. You will cry out so mighty to God that He will inspire you to put in place mechanisms, programs, attitude changes, etc. You will do whatever is necessary relying upon Christ's redeeming blood to change your heart, your mind, your soul. He will change your soul to abhor sin. And that change of heart must always be constant . . .if that change of heart ever reverts, you will fall back into old sinful habits. It is only through Him that the change can occur and continue to occur.