Blossom76

My heart/soul agrees with my brain, even though I am heartbroken over it, this just doesn't add up, solid evidence is solid evidence. This is not satan trying to get my soul, this is just truth. But I do appreciate your kindness and I don't want to tell anyone else what to think, but I"m not going to accept things as truth or 'shelf and ignore uncomfortable things' when I know, and can see strong evidence for it being false. I still believe in the Book of Mormon, but so do a lot of other faiths

[Page 372] Comment of the Prophtet on the Kinderhook Plates. I insert fac-similes of the six brass plates found near Kinderhook, in Pike county, Illinois, on April 23, by Mr. Robert Wiley and others, while excavating a large mound. They found a skeleton about six feet from the surface of the earth, which must have stood nine feet high. The plates were found on the breast of the skeleton and were covered on both sides with ancient characters. I have translated a portion of them, and find they contain the history of the person with whom they were found. He was a descendant of Ham, through the loins of Pharaoh, king of Egypt, and that he received his kingdom from the Ruler of heaven and earth. This is from The History of The Church Volume 5 Chapter 19 https://byustudies.byu.edu/content/volume-5-chapter-19 @bytebear Church records are saying The Prophet (Joseph Smith) said this, I cross check all the information in the CES letter about this, I'm not just taking this guys word for it. The Church Says Jospeh Smith said this. I don't assume the Church is being Dishonest when it said the Prophet said something. If its in offical Church History, written by the Church, then I should be able to trust their word for it shouldn't I? Or are you saying that I shouldn't? Because if I can't trust what the church writes about their own history, then thats a really big problem. I don't want to be misunderstood in all this, I am honestly trying to find a way to move past this, but its not good and there really is no excuse for it. I like this church, I like the way of life it gives its members, but the main point of it is to worship God in a way that is acceptable to him. Even if it is the best life I'm not sure its worth living if it is based on falsehood, or has started with the truth and then been corrupted. Evidence is sometimes very black and white. Its either true or its not. And just because I want it to be true with every fibre in my being, doesn't mean that it will be. The point is these plates were a fraud and were proven a fraud, yet Joseph said they contained the history of a man descendant from Ham, that's not true, that's a big problem. This is a quote on the subject from an LDS Historian Richard Bushman. “Church historians continued to insist on the authenticity of the Kinderhook Plates until 1980 when an examination conducted by the Chicago Historical Society, possessor of one plate, proved it was a nineteenth-century creation.” – LDS Historian Richard Bushman, Rough Stone Rolling, p.490

I believe in the Book of Mormon but I'm not sure about this, I shall pray on it though. But I'm not just going to 'make something fit' in the face of overwhelming evidence that it does not. Just because I believe the book of mormon to be true doesn't mean that everything else about the church is automatically true.

thanks for trying to help everyone, I appreciate it. Unfortunately it doesn't change anything The questions are still there, the doubt is still there, the information in that CES letter is very hard to explain away, there are a lot of supporting evidence for this guys claims, both from LDS and non LDS scholars as well as respected egyptologists. Its a very solid argument . I'm very confused and sad right now

Yes I did know that about the Nazi Symbol, the problem with that line of thought is the Egyptians were here first, they had a very well established written language, the Egyptian interpretation of the papyri is consistent with everything known about the Egyptian written language, they wrote it, they didn't find it. I really appreciate you trying to help me make sense of this though

It does helps that the actual text comes from something that was lost, thank you. But the bigger problem is Josephs interpretation of the actual Facsimile pictures, what he says they mean compared to what Egyptian Scholars say they mean are completely different. Honestly the whole letter is really disturbing, I just wish I'd never seen it.

Some 'well meaning' person (honestly I think it was our parish priest) has given my husband a copy of the CES Letter. He was very nice about it (my husband I mean) when he showed it to me and I managed to stay very calm while reading the thing (then cried like a baby for a couple of hours). I asked my husband what his main concern with this letter was and he says its the Kinderhook Plates and the book of Abraham papyri. I have to admit it doesn't look good and I am having concerns of my own with regards to this. Anyway, I got on fair mormon straight away and found their response to it, my husband doesn't accept their explanation saying 'they were fakes, he was set up, and yet he said they were something they were not, if he could not tell they were fake then how can we trust any of his other translations'. Please any information you guys can give me to help get me and my husband past this crisis would be highly appreciated. I believe in the Book of Mormon, but this kinder hook plates thing and the book of Abraham has really upset me.

2 Nephi 32:3 "Angels speak by the power of the Holy Ghost; wherefore, they speak the words of Christ. Wherefore, I said unto you, feast upon the words of Christ; for behold, the words of Christ will tell you all things what ye should do."

NDEs are what got me interested in the LDS faith, the pre-existence and the plan of salvation. Most of the credible NDEs talk of a feeling of 'returning home'. This is a good video done by a member of the church I wouldn't dream of telling anyone what to watch but please be aware that Amy Call, while she has an amazing NDE experience, is an ex-mormon. She left the LDS church because of what she experienced in her NDE.

I am new to this and I'm not yet a baptised member BUT from my understanding tithing is to be paid on 'what you earn'. If these are government benefits then you shouldn't have to tithe on them. Student loans are not income either, its a loan. In fact from what I can work out the only money coming into your marriage that should be tithed on is the income from your wife's part time job. I don't know what that income is (none of mine, your bishops or anyone else business) but that's all you should be thinking of paying tithes on. So if you are paying $29 in tithing already and your wife's pay from her part time job is less than $290, then you are ahead on your tithing and you're owed one very big apology for the way you have been treated. I also don't think its right that you feel like you have to tell anyone how much your money you have, its not the bishops business. My understanding is you are asked in an interview 'are you paying a honest tithe' or something to that effect, there is no need to tell anyone how much money you have, and I"m pretty sure you don't have to produce your tax return to prove your income, its between you and the lord. You can also set up an account and pay tithing online too, this might be a good idea in your situation. I do find the way you are being treated really disturbing, I think you should be welcomed, especially if you are new members. I'd be lodging a complaint to the stake president and if that didn't get any results, I'd go over his head too. I'm so sorry you have been made to feel like this. Your health is important and so are you.

Its really a hard call isn't it, and I'm glad that in the LDS faith it appears is a personal choice? My husband is friends with a Seventh Day Adventist and they are forbidden to work on their Sabbath (Saturday), this man has even been fired from previous employment because of his refusal to work on the Sabbath. In an ideal world we would all be able to keep the Sabbath, but in the real world, everything can't just stop for church, fire and rescue, the police department, electrical and phone department, shipping services, road safety, aviation etc etc. The world just wouldn't function if everybody in it keeps the Sabbath every week, its unrealistic.

I'm no expert on any of this at all. But I do see you are putting a lot of pressure and stress on yourself over this. I think you need to chill out a bit. Maybe look at the logical reasons for the truth of the Book of Mormon and Joseph Smith, there are HEAPS of them trust me. Then you can relax and feel the confirmation by the spirit naturally, because you won't have any doubt anymore. It worked for me, maybe it can work for you too. Honestly when you really truely look into it, and examine all the evidence, its impossible to believe this isn't true.

I know I already posted in this thread but its an important topic. I forgot to add that the fact that the Book of Mormon was written in 56 days was also pretty compelling, and Jospeh didn't need a reminder the next day of 'where he was up to' he just started translating again from exactly where he left off. And the testimony of the 3 witnesses, even after they left the church they never denied the truth of the Book of Mormon.

I'm not a baptised member and fairly new to this so don't pay too much attention to my experience! I first started investigating the LDS church because of their belief in the pre-existence, I had been studying NDE (near death experiences) for a while and came across this video on them by an LDS convert (check out his conversion video too, its really good). That lead me to investigating the LDS faith. As far as the Book of Mormon I haven't read it anywhere near as much as you have, I prayed and I prayed and nothing! Finally I read this article and all of a sudden 'click' I knew it was true, I just knew it. Joseph Smith did not make this up, the Book of Mormon is the word of God. https://mormonhub.com/blog/faith/defending-the-faith/book-of-mormon-hoax/ I still don't have a solid testimony of the succession of authority to Jospeh Smith, but I'm working on it!

I'm so sorry this is happening to your family. It can work though, I'm living proof! My husband and I were both raised catholic and agreed to raise a catholic family. Then I started investigating the LDS church and now I have a strong belief in the Book Of Mormon. Hubby, while he doesn't like it, has agreed that for the next 18 months BOTH of us study BOTH faiths in detail and with an open mind and heart. Its been really good so far, and at the end of the 18 months we will both be able to make an educated informed choice as to what faith we want to belong to and why. Maybe you could come to the same sort of agreement with your wife?

Thank you, thats so very true.

I'll definitely be reading this book, thank you

I always found the story of the Tower of Babel disturbing! It seems to me that humanity was getting along - and getting ahead, the God and his angels came down and stopped our progress. I don't agree with what happened, I can't see what is wrong with the progress of the human race, I don't understand why God would want to stop that. ?. It also created a lot of division within humanity, wars, religious differences, segregation. 5 But the Lord came down to see the city and the tower the people were building.6 The Lord said, “If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them. 7 Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other.” 8 So the Lord scattered them from there over all the earth, and they stopped building the city. It doesn't make sense to me that it was over the unity of humanity and the building of a city and a skyscraper, we have plenty of those now. We no longer have the unity of the human race though, maybe God had more of a problem with the unity thing? Just my two cents, I guess the Old Testament is full of disturbing stories when you think about it Great video though, I love seeing any evidence of scripture ?

I did it @clbent04 sorry I took so long ADVOCATE PERSONALITY (INFJ, -A/-T) The Advocate personality type is very rare, making up less than one percent of the population, but they nonetheless leave their mark on the world. As members of the Diplomat Role group, Advocates have an inborn sense of idealism and morality, but what sets them apart is that they are not idle dreamers, but people capable of taking concrete steps to realize their goals and make a lasting positive impact. Advocates tend to see helping others as their purpose in life, but while people with this personality type can be found engaging rescue efforts and doing charity work, their real passion is to get to the heart of the issue so that people need not be rescued at all.

I don't know if this will help you, but this is what did it for me in the end regarding whether Jospeh Smith was a prophet or not. https://mormonhub.com/blog/faith/defending-the-faith/book-of-mormon-hoax/ Also remember that prophets aren't perfect, and I don't think God even wants them to be. Look at Noah, the dude was chosen to save the human race from extinction and the first thing he did straight after was get naked wasted drunk. Seriously ? The great apostasy is a bit harder I think and I struggle with this too. This video explains how it MAY have happened. Please don't beat yourself up, I think questions are a good thing, especially hard questions.

Then stay true to yourself and stay single, it will happen when its supposed to, this is a very important time in your life, exams are more important right now than a girlfriend.

A different perceptive from the other answers but.... My son is 18 next week, I think he (and you) are WAY to young to be thinking about marriage. What do you want to do for a career? Are you finished studying? I think you should focus on what you want in life and have some fun while you are still young enough not to have too many responsibilities. Don't be so quick to tie yourself down. Marriage is eternal, date for a few years first (following the law of chastity of course) get to know girls, so you can work out what qualities are important to you in a potential wife. Don't overlook the importance of pre marriage counselling, being on the same page on the important things can help give your marriage the best chance possible. Things like money and how it is made, spent as well as long term financial goals, division of labour in the household, romance and what you need from each other with regards to this. Children and how they are to be cared for, common interests and probably the most important question - Dogs inside or out!

Thanks for your response. My husband has made an agreement with me that if I study the LDS faith for 18 months and still want to be baptised then he will support me in my decision, so I guess he would give his permission for my endowment as well based on that. He has agreed to study with me for that 18 months, as long as I study our current faith with him for the same amount of time. (He's very active Catholic) He has no problem with me attending LDS church on Sundays AS LONG as I go to Mass with him first. He doesn't want missionaries teaching him in our home which I can understand and respect his decision, so I do my learning at Church. At the moment our LDS studies at home are from the 'Gospel Principles' book and reading the Book of Mormon. It's a bit of a different situation than most investigators face, but its my situation and I am doing my best to embrace it and make the most of it.

https://www.dosomething.org/us/facts/11-facts-about-pollution Pollution from mankind is a big problem on this planet. It's a fact, I think the Church should be getting involved in environmental charities and members should be donating their time to help as well (I certainly do). God gave us this planet to live on, the very least we can do is admit there is a problem and do something positive to look after it better. I can see there is no point continuing on this thread, so I will stop commenting

Fair assumption considering this comment I thought. But I apologise if you don't believe that the theory of evolution is a fact. And I couldn't care less about 'the last word'