Jersey Boy

Orson Pratt’s mistake is that he believed there is God above all other Gods, and his supreme God above all other Gods is supposedly an infinitely vast universal reservoir of uncreated awareness and truth. Conversely, President Young testified that the God above all other Gods is a celestialized human being. The idea that unembodied light and truth preexist the living human God of flesh and bone is a false concept because it countenances the notion that there may have been a time when an embodied God of flesh and bone didn’t exist, and that there is a first cause that preexists and is of more essential and fundamental importance than the God of flesh and bone whom we worship. The scriptures make it abundantly clear that the embodied God is the source of all truth, law, light and life and, in fact, he testifies that he IS the truth, the law, the light and the life, and that all law, truth, light and life emanate FROM HIM.The tabernacled God was not willed into existence by unembodied intelligent elemental matter. In other words, if we were to view this controversy as a chicken and the egg conundrum, it’s the embodied God who creates all things, not impersonal primeval elements. The reason why this is so difficult to grasp is because one must come to realized that there never was a time in all eternity when there wasn’t a tabernacled God of flesh and bone who rules in the heavens. The hymn ‘If Ye Could Hie to Kolob’ helps us to begin to understand this greatest miracle of all miracles, and it is that there never was a single moment in all of eternity when the glorious God of flesh and bone didn’t exist. As the hymn says, if it were possible to travel into the past at speeds unimaginably faster than the speed of light, and if one were to spend an endless eternity continuing backward into time and space at that speed, he would discover that there never was a time when the tabernacled Man of Holiness didn’t exist. The Book of Mirmon’s ‘one eternal round’ also helps us to begin to understand these things, because it suggests if one were to travel backward into time and space far enough, he would eventually wind up right back where he started from, and where he started from is an existence ruled over by a tabernacled God. It’s understandable and to be expected that some deep thinking Latter-Day Saints would try to discover a first cause that existed before the living God of flesh and bone because, after all, the King Follett Discouse, and scriptural passages like those found Doctrine and Covenants 93, teach us that we can become like the tabernacled God who existed from eternity to eternity. But the important point to remember here is that there never was a time when the glorious God of flesh and bone, who rules and reigns over all things, didn’t exist, and that he is the ultimate source of all truth, law, light and life, and that these things issue forth FROM HIM, not from impersonal foundational elements. Therefore, if we do eventually obtain the fulness of eternal life and become like the Father and the Son, it will occur by virtue of the atonement of Christ and the outpouring of the Spirit, power and authority of the Father and the Son. Our perfection will not be made possible through the will of intelligent impersonal element. For all eternity, the only way the sons and daughters of God have been enabled to become like God is through the power of tabernacled God of flesh, which power is bestowed by virtue of the infinite and eternal sacrifice and resurrection of the Holy Messiah. Their is no other way... Similarly, there never was a time when there was no Christ and there never was a time when there was no infinite and eternal atoning sacrifice of the Christ. For as the prophet Lehi testifies in 2 Nephi 2, the only way anything at all can exist is by virtue of the atoning sacrifice of Christ. Brigham Young said it’s not possible to fully understand these great mysteries of eternity while we’re in this fallen state, but he promised that one day we will be able to comprehend the everlasting eternity of God, and that when the great secret is finally revealed, it will be a source of great consolation to us. The living God of flesh and bone is the first cause; the first cause is not impersonal intelligent element. To imagine that intelligent impersonal element is the first cause, something that preexists the embodied God, is to dethrone God by asserting that he and His Christ are not above all things, before all things, and in and through ALL THINGS. Finally, trying to convince a non-LDS Christian that there is something more basic, and fundamentally essential than the God whom we have been commanded worship is a fool’s errand. And trying to convince that man that intelligent impersonal element preexisted the eternal Father and the Son isn’t going to fly.

All truth light and life issue forth from a thinking, active God of will, who is enabled to rule and reign over existence by virtue of the infinite and eternal atonement of God ; God does not issue forth from some element of unembodied truth. Was there ever a moment in all eternity when a Godhead of Father, Son and Holy Ghost did not rule and reign over existence? Was there ever a moment in all eternity when the reality of the atonement of Christ did not exist? When one stops to really think through the implications of what you’re proposing, it is nothing more or less than idolitry. The living Man of Holiness is the source of all truth, law, light and life, not somebody’s notion of an unembodied collective reservoir of truth.

Some Latter-Day Saint thinkers have have adopted your idea (Orson Pratt was one of them, but President Young said Pratt was in error), but the only way you could be correct is if there was a time — or even a single moment — in all of eternity past when there was no sovereign God who was in possession of a celestial body of flesh and bone. This would mean there was a time when the only “god” that did exist was an unembodied consciousnesses (not conscienceless) that existed before any embodied God existed.

The notion that God is the embodiment of some sort of impersonal primordial intellece is a false concept. The Apostle Orson Pratt was a proponent of this erroneous theological idea and President Young finally had to set him straight, making it clear to Orson that the eternal and everlasting God, who is above and before all things, is not the embodiment of an amorphous intelligent force that existed before God came to be. In 2 Nephi 2, the prophet Lehi makes it clear that God has always existed as the ultimate reality and ruling ssovereign over all things. and If this were not so nothing could exist. The only place where the fullness of the mind God can exist is within the thought processes of individual human intelligences; the mind of God cannot exist as an impersonal intelligent force outside of the human mind.

For the sake of clarity, I’m going to answer your explanations one point at a time. D&C 88:27 is pointing to that glorious future day when those who are judged wortthy will rise from the grave with glorified celestial, terrestrial or telestial resurrected bodies, and then receive an inheritance in one of the many heavenly mansions of glory in the Kingdom of our God. Because this verse is speaking of the future day of heavenly inheritance and definitely not speaking of the present day of existence in this perilous fallen state, right out of the box your ideas don’t square with what’s being taught in this verse. Thie day of this life is not a day of glorious heavenly inheritance. Rather, this fallen existence is a preparatory state of difficult trials, with exposure to the refiner’s fire IN PREPARATION for the day when we will finally obtain our hoped for heavenly inheritance. In order to make your iideas appear to be even remotely plausible, you have to offer up really strained interpretations of scripture that are completely out of psync with some of the long-established official doctrines of the Church. The reason why you’ve fallen into this trap is because it appears you’ve missed the parts of the higher ordinances that plainly teach one cannot enter the telestial kingdom, and live by its laws, unless he has first been baptized, confirmed a member of the Church and given the gift of the Holy Ghost. The other higher ordinances pertain to entry into the Terrestrial and Celestial kingdoms. Each heavenly kingdom has its own set of laws and ordinances (Think of how the three degrees of glory are presented in the Temple). It’s also apparent you failed to realize that the people of this fallen world who are not living by the laws and ordinances pertaining to the telestial kingdom are actually existing in a fallen state of extreme jeopardy, an existence in which they are doomed to an eternal hell unless and until they are willing to submit to the first principles and ordinances of the gospel that will qualify them to enter the telestial kingdom. This world is only a telestial kingdom for those who have accepted and live lby the first principles and ordinances that allow for entry into the telestial kingdom, So you are half-right. But unfortunately, in order to maintain your position of being half-right you will also have to continue to be at variance with some of the most fundamental teachings of the Church. In other words, you will have to continue to live with the knowledge that you are propagating what every leader of the Church would condemn as false doctrine. In my next response I will focus on verse 27’s reference to being sanctified by the law of Christ.

If after reading the Book of Mormon and listening to hundreds of General Conference addresses the German saints are divided into factions over the meaning of repentance, it demonstrates a stubborn thick-headedness for which there is no excuse.

I’m hoping you’ll do a line by line interpretation of these verses, just as you did in your previous post.

I would appreciate it if you could also provide the same kind of line by line interpretation of the following verses from D&C 88? 21 And they who are not sanctified through the law which I have given unto you, even the law of Christ, must inherit another kingdom, even that of a terrestrial kingdom, or that of a telestial kingdom. 22 For he who is not able to abide the law of a celestial kingdom cannot abide a celestial glory. 23 And he who cannot abide the law of a terrestrial kingdom cannot abide a terrestrial glory. 24 And he who cannot abide the law of a telestial kingdom cannot abide a telestial glory; therefore he is not meet for a kingdom of glory. Therefore he must abide a kingdom which is not a kingdom of glory. 25 And again, verily I say unto you, the earth abideth the law of a celestial kingdom, for it filleth the measure of its creation, and transgresseth not the law-- 26 Wherefore, it shall be sanctified; yea, notwithstanding it shall die, it shall be quickened again, and shall abide the power by which it is quickened, and the righteous shall inherit it. 27 For notwithstanding they die, they also shall rise again, a spiritual body. 28 They who are of a celestial spirit shall receive the same body which was a natural body; even ye shall receive your bodies, and your glory shall be that glory by which your bodies are quickened. 29 Ye who are quickened by a portion of the celestial glory shall then receive of the same, even a fulness. 30 And they who are quickened by a portion of the terrestrial glory shall then receive of the same, even a fulness. 31 And also they who are quickened by a portion of the telestial glory shall then receive of the same, even a fulness. 32 And they who remain shall also be quickened; nevertheless, they shall return again to their own place, to enjoy that which they are willing to receive, because they were not willing to enjoy that which they might have received.(D&C88)

You should find it. Answers to troubling questions are much more impactful and satisfying when we find the answers on our own.

It’s very obvious which of the eight verses is the one I’m referring to. You may be missing it because you don’t believe there are three major degrees of glory in heaven.

IThere’s one verse in D&C 76:72-79 that clears up all the confusion and makes the other 7 verses very easy to understand. I’m wondering if you can find that one clarifying verse, and then, if you can find it, go on to explain why that verse makes all the other verses clear and easy to understand?

I could clear things up right away, but will not do so in this post for the sake of maintaining an interesting and unfolding conversation. The first thing to notice is the punctuation in verses 72, 73 and 74. By observing that verses 72 and 73 end in semicolons, and that the continuous stream of thought that begins in verse 72 doesn’t end until the period at the end of verse 74, and by further observing that the word ‘also’ in verse 73 indicates that verses 72 and 73 form two separate and independent introductory statements, it then the becomes clear that the independent introductory statements found in verses 72 and 73 come to final resolution in verse 74. This means that for the sake of clarifying the meaning of theses three verses we can temporarily put aside the independent introductory statement in verse 73 and allow verses 72 and 74 to form one complete thought. And here it is... 72 Behold, these are they who died without law; 74 Who received not the testimony of Jesus in the flesh, but afterwards received it. (D&C 76)

Here’s and excellent article written by Vince Methot of the Seven of Everything blog who understands the issues perfectly. Like Yours Truly, he’s able to harmonize the Book of Mormon and Doctrine and Covenants presentations on the plan of salvation without twisting many passages of the scriptures out of joint. And just as importantly, he’s able to harmonize these same books of scripture with the testimonies of our living prophets without claiming that the current First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve don’t know what they’re talking about. Kingdoms of Salvation President Uchtdorf said something in General Conference on Saturday Morning in his talk 'It Works Wonderfully!'(Oct 2015) that stuck out to me because I have been writing about it for some time. It is not a topic generally understood by most members, and when they ask, they normally get the wrong answer. Here is what he said: Door of Salvation "The Savior's sacrifice opened the door of salvation for all to return to God." This is consistent with the 3rd article of faith: "We believe that through the atonement of Christ all mankind may be saved..." John 10:1-18 talks extensively about how Christ is the door. 2 Nephi 31:17 explains that this door, or gate, is repentance and baptism. Romans 6 explains the connection between Christ and baptism. It is also explained in my previous post, "Biblical Take on Remission." Kingdoms of Salvation "His grace is the enabling power that allows access into God’s kingdoms of salvation." In the scriptures it repeatedly talks about the kingdom of God (singular) and what is needed to go there. Salvation is entrance into God's kingdom (singular). However, in February of 1832 God revealed the meaning of His phrase, "In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you." (John 14:2, see also D&C 76:111) Anybody, even with a belief in the trinity, should understand the concept of three in one. If His grace is the enabling power that allows access into the kingdom of God, then obviously this is also true of all kingdoms within His kingdom. The requirements to get into the kingdom of God are also necessary to get into any kingdom within. So I repeat, salvation is entrance into God's kingdom. Likewise, salvation is entrance into any of God's kingdoms within His kingdom. It is stated in scripture and by President Uchtdorf that, "because of His grace, we will all be resurrected and saved in a kingdom of glory." And, "numberless people will inherit ... salvation, [in] even the lowest kingdom of glory, the telestial kingdom." (see above for exact quote, see also D&C 76:88 and D&C 76:109) Baptism is Required for Salvation To summarize, baptism is required for salvation. Baptism is required to enter the kingdom of God. Therefore, baptism is required to enter the telestial kingdom of salvation because it is part of the kingdom of God. Confusion on this topic has come because of overlooking or misunderstanding of more recent revelation, even by a prophet and an apostle. I will explain the origins of the misunderstanding, how it was cleared up by revelation, and how it was brought back and is present in church manuals today in my next posts (Understanding Baptism Line upon Line, Misunderstanding Baptism for Salvation). However, it is fortunate that despite this misunderstanding, the concept in the third paragraph by President Uchtdorf quoted above did also persist. "As members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, we aspire to something unimaginably greater. It is exaltation in the celestial kingdom." Posted by Vince Methot at 5:00 AM

The family member I’m referring to works in the Church office building and rubs shoulders with the leaders of the Church all the time. So it would be no big deal for him to casually inform Elder Holland that there’s an avid participant on LDS discussion boards who’s trying to convince whoever will listen that there are not three degrees of glory in the resurrection, and that he’s using is one of Elder Holland’s own General Conference addresses to substantiate his unusual doctrinal claims. It would then be Elder Holland’s choice to respond — or not respond — in any way he sees fit. If Elder Holland did choose to respond, I would bring the report back to this board. But if some here would choose to believe my report is untrue, that would be their right. At any rate, as I’ve already made clear, I wouldn’t ask my relative to speak to Elder Holland on this issue unless Rob is okay with it... and he’s not.

If you will take notice, you will see I was careful to not mention the expression “false doctrine” in the prefacing comments and question I’m prepared to summit to Elder Holland. But if you did notice, are you saying you don’t want a fairly stated question submitted to Elder Holland because you feel I personally insulted you? Again, if I submit the above comments and question to Elder Holland, the expression “false doctrine,” nor anything like unto it, will be mentioned because I don’t want to take the chance of swaying the mind of Elder Holland with a prejudicial statement. You see, I want to fairly present your ideas so that we will get a clear and thoughtful answer. And you are free to either edit my comments and question in a way you can fully approve, or you can present your own prefacing comments and questions so that you will feel fully comfortable, and then I will submit what you write without any negative or prejudicial statements of my own. But we can cut this whole exercise short if you will simply state that not even Elder Holland will be able tp sway you if he says you are wrong.

I have a connection with the General Authorities. If I could get Elder Holland to personally respond to your claim that you believe he taught the members of the Church our present earthly pre-resurrection telestial kingdom is one and the same with the telestial kingdom spoken of in D&C sections 76 and D&C 88, and for this reason there will be no telestial kingdom of glory after the resurrection, would you be allow me to submit a question to him? And if he does answer, will you be willing to abide by his answer and stop propagating false doctrine if what he says contradicts your assertions? This is how I will present the question: Dear Elder Holland: There’s a member of the Church who is an avid and bold participant on Latter-Day Saint discussion boards who is quoting you as an authoritative source for his doctrinal claims. He’s teaching that because you once said our present earth is the telestial kingdom that this means you don’t believe there is going to be post-resurrection kingdom of telestial glory. In other words, he believes you agree with him that the telestial kingdom spoken of in Doctrine and Covenants sections 76 and 88 is our present-day earth, the one and only telestial kingdom that will ever be for this creation, and that because this present telestial earth will be transformed into higher orders of kingdom there will not be a telestial kingdom of glory after the resurrection. As a corollary, he similarly believes that because this earth will temporarily become a terrestrial kingdom during the millennium it follows that there will also be no terrestrial kingdom of post-resurrection glory in eternity. Simply put, the gentleman believes there will not be three degrees of heavenly glory after the resurrection and there will only be the celestial glory and the habitation of the resurrected sons of perdition. Do you believe this brother is correct when he makes these assertions? Do I have your permission to make this submission to Elder Holland? But know that if you tell me you’re not going to stop teaching these things even if Elder Holland says you’re your wrong, I’m not going to bother.

As apostle Neal A Maxwell and other Church leaders have taught, the “day of this life,” spoken of in the Book of Mormon, includes the time spent in the spirit world after death. In other words, “the day of this life” is the fallen state, which continues in the spirit world, and we will remain in the fallen state until we exit the spirit world in the resurrection. As long as there are living proxies on the face of the earth who can perform the saving ordinances of the gospel in behalf of the dead in the temples, as far as God is concerned it’s just as if the dead are still alive and receiving those ordinances while in the flesh. This is why Peter taught that the dead who receive and live the gospel in the spirit world will be judged as if they had received the gospel while in the flesh.

The more and more one rebels against God, the less and less he knows concerning the will and mysteries of God. This occurs because as the descent toward perdition continues downward the Spirit of God is withdrawn until the inner light of divine truth, knowledge and wisdom is totally extinguished. The only “knowledge” that’s left after the inner light of the Spirit has been extinguished is a diabolical spirit of hatred that stands in diametric opposition to all the divine attributes of God. In other words, except for the perverse knowledge he possesses of how to go about attempting to destroy all that’s good and holy, he is an ignoramus. True intelligence cannot exist apart from the Spirit of God. 10 And therefore, he that will aharden his heart, the same receiveth the blesser portion of the word; and he that will cnotharden his heart, to him is dgiven the greater portion of the word, until it is given unto him to know the mysteries of God until he know them in full. 11 And they that will harden their hearts, to them is given the lesser aportion of the word until they bknow nothing concerning his mysteries...( Alma 12)

Here’s the rub that you are either unaware of or ignoring. The poster in question says he KNOWS for a surety that King David and Judas Iscariot are both going to spend all eternity suffering in outer darkness. And he knows this even though there are Church leaders who aren’t so sure. Meanwhile, there are other participants on this thread who hold the OPINION that King David and Judas — both of whom had not yet even received the gift of the Holy Ghost when they committed their crimes — might ultimately receive saving mercy at the hand of the God of mercy who descended in suffering below all things that he might save all who sincerely plead for forgiveness. It’s the cocksure and exceedingly harsh judgemental attitude — a stubborn refusal to even consider the possibility that the prophet Joseph Smith might be right when he said David will ultimately obtain mercy in the resurrection — that creates the rancor. The poster in question also routinely says that the official Church interpretations of many verses of scripture are erroneous, that the leaders of the Church have incorrectly interpreted some of the most important and consequential scriptural passages, and that he’s the one who knows better than the prophets what those verses of scripture really mean. Pure unadulterated arrogance... And with regard to the Savior’s statement concerning Judas, no less a no-nonsense authority figure like Bruce R McConkie opined that there are two different categories of the sons of perdition, namely those whose sins are so egregious that they will spend thousands of years isuffering in hellfire before being allowed to inherit a place in the lowest level of the telestial kingdom, and then those who will spend all eternity suffering in outer darkness. But such statements of possible mercy from even prominent Church leaders have no effect on him because he seems to perversely enjoy consigning people to the pains of hell forever. Even the Lord of heaven weeps bitter tears of heartbreak over the loss of his children. Meanwhile, as I said, the poster in question seems to callously enjoy condemning people to an everlasting hell. If the poster in question comes down off his high horse and admits the possibility that he might actually be wrong on occasion, it will go a long way toward creating an environment of mutual respect.

The essence of the unpardonable sin is making a final decision to not want to be pardoned. God’s endless punishment only becomes endless when one decides he doesn’t want to do what’s necessary to make God’s punishment come to an end. As to your uncertainty, it must be remembered that within the framework of the eternal priciple of diametric opposition in all things there must be intelligences who are the exact opposite of God in order for things to exist, and that there might also be laws that allow things to work in a logical and predictable way. So just as on one end of the eternal continuum there must be a perfectly good, loving and just God, there must also be intelligences on the opposite end of the spectrum who are completely and utterly evil, hateful and unjust. Remember father Lehi said that if such polar opposites were not allowed to exist there could be no existence. In other words, because there are devils who are perfectly evil it allows the opposite of those perfectly evil creatures to also exist, namely our perfectly good and righteous God. But in spite of all I’ve just said, I agree with you that there may be some undisclosed way for the sufferings of these wretched beings to come to an end. But if they do come to an end, it will only be because there are others who will come to take their place in the eternal scheme of things. Let’s now take a look at a couple of examples of how the devil and his angels think and behave, and then let’s ask ourselves if this is how Judas behaved after he betrayed the Lord? 26 And he beheld Satan; and he had a great chain in his hand, and it veiled the whole face of the earth with darkness; and he looked up and laughed, and his angels rejoiced. (Moses 7) and... 2 Wo, wo, wo unto this people; wo unto the inhabitants of the whole earth except they shall repent; for the devil laugheth, and his angels rejoice, because of the slain of the fair sons and daughters of my people; and it is because of their iniquity and abominations that they are fallen! (3 Nephi 9)

In my recent researching, I’ve been enlightened to discover some of the General Authorities have said there are two general classifications that fall under the heading of the sons of perdition. The first group are those who are cast into outer darkness and lost forever in hell. The second group are those, like Judas, who have gone down a very dark spiritual path but will eventually be rescued from hell because they are deeply remorseful and were not enlightened spiritually enough to have committed the unpardonable sin. These Church leaders say King David and Judas fall into the latter category. But in spite of the fact that both King David and Judas were clearly not spiritually enlightened enough to have totally rebelled against God in the light of spiritual noonday, Rob believes David and Judas are indeed sons of perdition in the former sense. But there’s an important element in this discussion that needs to be considered that most haven’t even stopped to think about, and that is that in the cases of both king David and Judas they did not at all behave like sons of perdition after committing their crimes. The fact is both David and Judas were filled with tremendous regret, remorse and sorrow for the wrongs they had committed. Meanwhile the sons of perdition hate God so much much that they take great delight in evil and laugh cruelly in psychopathic triumph when they commit their evil deeds. But such rejoicing in iniquity is not at all seen in David and Judas after they sinned. In the case of David, he spent the rest of his life seeking forgiveness with tears for the wrongs he had committed. And in the case of Judas, he was so remorseful that he tried to return the thirty pieces of silver to the Jewish Elders and then took his own life because he was so remorseful and conscience stricken. The sons of perdition don’t have guilty consciences and don’t want to be forgiven. Speaking only for myself, I must say I would be very disappointed to learn God doesn’t look down in compassion and pity on these two sons of his who were filled with so much bitter remorse and regret for the wrongs they had done. Again, the sons of perdition don’t have guilty consciences.

That’s your assumption. Christ was very likely be speaking of every individual who will become a son of perdition. And that would be doctrinally true because, according to D&C 76, the only ones who will be lost are the sons of perdition. Otherwise, only way one would be able to know for sure is if Christ said ‘the only one who is lost is Judas Iscariot.’ A question: do you think that the Savior was teaching there is only one man (Judas) who will ever become as son of perdition?

I’m beginning to think that the reason why you are so often in error is because you likely never had a good grounding in, and testimony of, the gospel basics before you stated entertaining ideas and concepts that are contrary to the foundational doctrines of the Church. With regard to the above statement, I don’t think you thought it through. I say this because anyone who is consigned to outer darkness after the resurrection is, by very definition, a son of perdition, even one who rebels against God and utterly rejects His salvation while basking in the full light of spiritual noonday. Perhaps you haven’t considered the fact that the spirits in the darkness of the spirit prison will be often ministered to by glorious ministering spirits sent from the paradise of God, and that these heavenly messengers will repeatedly testify with great power that God loves them eternally and nothing would make Him happier than to be able to forgive and bless them with salvation. What this means is that by the time of the final judgement there won’t be a single spirit in the spirit prison who won’t have a perfect awareness of the existence, love and salvation of God. Therefore every spirit who refuses to accept Christ and repent at the final judgement will be doing so with their eyes wide open. If you don’t believe me, just look at the overwhelmingly hellish experience of Alma the younger who came to a perfect realization that he desperately needed to accept Christ and repent if he was ever going to be able to escape the sore and exquisitely painful judgements of God upon the sinner. 31 Thus saith the Lord concerning all those who know my power, and have been made partakers thereof, and suffered themselves through the power of the devil to be overcome, and to deny the truth and defy my power— 32 They are they who are the sons of perdition, of whom I say that it had been better for them never to have been born; 33 For they are vessels of wrath, doomed to suffer the wrath of God, with the devil and his angels in eternity; 34 Concerning whom I have said there is no forgiveness in this world nor in the world to come— 35 Having denied the Holy Spirit after having received it, and having denied the Only Begotten Son of the Father, having crucified him unto themselves and put him to an open shame. 36 These are they who shall go away into the lake of fire and brimstone, with the devil and his angels— 37 And the only ones on whom the second death shall have any power; (D&C 76)

So you believe there will be some who haven’t committed the unpardonable sin who, nevertheless, are still going to be damned forever in outer darkness along with the sons of perdition who have committed the unpardonable sin?

The ultimate test that will determine if an evil person is going to become a son of perdition (one who will spend eternity in outer darkness in a state of total alienation from God) is this: if after said evil person has been thrust down down to hell at death, where he will be caused to suffer for his own sins, without mitigation, for hundreds or even thousands of years, and if after all this suffering he still utterly refuses to accept Christ as Savior and repent of his sins until the last moment before the time of the final, judgement he the will suffer the second death and will become a son of perdition.