Bill "Papa" Lee
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Posts posted by Bill "Papa" Lee
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8 minutes ago, Vort said:
I think of Hugh Nibley in his later years.
He would talk so fast, filled with sooooooooo many facts, and with pearls form the past, it would wear you out! Love that guy, and especially his book, (I believe) "Approaching Zion". I read it long ago, and like most books you never see again in your lifetime, you lone it out to a friend, and never see it again.
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The Teacher
The teacher sits before us,
With silver in his hair.
Is it he, who once was gifted,
Is it he, now seated there?He once inspired the classroom,
Now students pause to wonder.
Has age robbed his fertile mind,
Or robbed his voice like thunder?Can he, now slumped before us,
Rise from his present chair?
Could even the gifted surgeon,
His broken frame repair?Why did this class, he schedule?
Why did he dare appear?
Why would himself embarrass,
Or even call us here?With only a cane to lift him,
A deep breath, and heavy sigh.
As once again his students,
Are forced to question; WHY?Then on his lips, a quiet prayer,
That God might give him strength.
For that and more were needed,
For a class of such great length!Then suddenly the man appears,
That before we could not see.
His voice as loud as thunder,
The man that used to be.With every passing hour,
His strength more quickly grows.
From whence this power comes,
Only God and Heaven knows?Pain nor age were not enough
To keep him from his task.
As once again we witnessed,
The teacher rise at last!Time and age may claim him,
And take his voice away.
But neither had their victory,
Over "Our Teacher", on this day!William E Lee
October 12, 2018As always, forgive any spelling errors, errors in grammar, and errors in punctuation, as I am no scholar. Just a broken down retired teacher, who tries to rise to the occasion now and again. My world was Military, Police Officer, Code Enforment, and part time teacher of Electrical Code and Mathmatics, for 25+ years at local Community College. Due to disability, I teach one class every few months continuing education courses, (four hour class) and after a four hour class that I barely got through, this "poem" was my answer to my prayer.
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1 hour ago, theplains said:
Romans 8:14-17 says, "For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. For ye have not received
the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. The Spirit
itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-
heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together."From what I understand of LDS theology, the joint-heirs of Christ are exalted beings (Gods), the sons of God, led by
the Spirit of God. On the flip side. those not led by the Spirit of God are not the sons of God, and are not exalted.
If they are not the sons of God, that would make them the children of the devil, right?Jim
Careful, you are not suggesting Calvinsim here are you?
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On July 23, 2018 at 8:42 PM, theplains said:
I had a question on this part of the 2009 Gospel Principles.
"If we passed our tests, we would receive the fulness of joy that our Heavenly Father has received.
(See D&C 93:30–34.)" The 1997 GP has "our heavenly parents" instead of "our Heavenly Father"."We learned that if we placed our faith in Him, obeying His word and following His example, we would
be exalted and become like our Heavenly Father. We would receive a fulness of joy." The 1997 GP has
"our heavenly parents" instead of "our Heavenly Father.""We learned that if we followed His plan, we would become like Him. We would be resurrected; we would
have all power in heaven and on earth; we would become heavenly parents and have spirit children just
as He does (see D&C 132:19–20)."Is there any LDS teaching which shows when this man (who became a God) first imagined he would be
worshipped by his spirit children on the planet we now call Earth?Thanks,
JimI think that many make this assumption, by extension of both direct doctrine, and indirect teachings. No matter what "status" we ever obtain, it to which we are exalted. God our Father, will still be our God, and we will, along with and posterity, spiritual or otherwise, and will still worship him in the name of Jesus Christ, as influenced by the Holy Spirit. Just as Adam and Eve, are the Father and Mother of all living, and Adam was made Lord over all the earth, to give a closer apology. But ever God the Father continues to gain more and more glory through his endless creation(s), so shall we someday become "like him", you know, "joint heirs with Christ", who, "thought it not robbery to be equal with God". We will become like him, but never his equal, where he will no longer be our God, but the potential to do all that he can do. It is just me, if becoming like God the Father is a byproduct of both Grace and Obedience, then so be it. But my goal is to be with him again, and be exalted as Jesus Christ is, I have no desire to be worshiped, except only as it pertains to being loved by all of my posterity.
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On July 31, 2018 at 10:22 PM, Scott said:
I'm just curious about the numbers. There are already plenty of other threads to debate it out on. Feel free to vote. None of this will be used against you or be used as scientific information. I promise not to sell your personal information to FB either. 😏
I have a rather odd take (well odd to many), I believe that the earth is as reported, around 580 billion years old. I believe that all life came from the sea, other than plant life, until the earth was ready for man. Then man was created when the earth was ready, that the five creative days, or periods, were to make it ready for man, and man on the sixth day. It was then that man was created in the express image of God. I have no evidence to back this up, only my understanding of scripture, natural law, evolution.
Many argue the ex-nilo account of creation, and we more the "organizing of existing matter". But if God just spoke all things into existence, why not do it all at the same time. The Genesis account make clear that God needed both time and order to create all things. This does not mean that God cannot do all things, as he certainly can, but as most Latter-day Saints believe. My 2 cents anyway.
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"Darkness, the truest darkness, is not the absence of light, it is the conviction that the light will never return. But the light always returns, to show us things familiar, home, family, and things entirely new, or long overlooked. It shows us new possibilities and challenges us to pursue them.." These of course are not my words, they come from a movie, of all places.
The Apostle Paul taught in Philippians 4:8, "Finally, Brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things."
One of the tenants and teachings of my Faith is listed in the 13th Article of Faith, states the following...
"We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and doing good to all men; indeed, we may say we follow the admonition of Paul--We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things".
Herein ends the lesson...so please add your thoughts (your kind thoughts) that others may also learn. Also in my 61+ years, I have learned that when we make the effort to comment, and give pause to think what comments that would edify others, then we also learn, and learn from the source of all knowledge.
"Darkness, the truest darkness, is not the absence of light, it is the conviction that the light will never return. But the light always returns, to show us things familiar, home, family, and things entirely new, or long overlooked. It shows us new possibilities and challenges us to pursue them.." These of course are not my words, they come from a movie, of all places. Click "see more" to understand why I list them.
The Apostle Paul taught in Philippians 4:8, "Finally, Brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things."
One of the tenants and teachings of my Faith is listed in the 13th Article of Faith, states the following...
"We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and doing good to all men; indeed, we may say we follow the admonition of Paul--We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things".
Herein ends the lesson...so please add your thoughts (your kind thoughts) that others may also learn. Also in my 61+ years, I have learned that when we make the effort to comment, and give pause to think what comments that would edify others, then we also learn, and learn from the source of all knowledge.
So thoughts please...
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On July 15, 2018 at 5:31 PM, Emmanuel Goldstein said:
"This is not a “takeover” of elders quorums by high priests," said Elder D. Todd Christofferson in April Conference. Does anyone else feel like that is exactly what has happened?
It feels this way at times. Our new Elders Quorum President does not call on High Priests to do much of anything. When the two groups became one, our Stake President decided to have an Elder serve as President, and first counselor, and then one High Priest as second counselor, (who is moving in two weeks) and have an Elder serve a Quorum Secretary, in every unit. I guess he did this so the Elders would not see it as a takeover, and President Nelson's remarks to the same has planted the idea in the heads of many, suggesting that we might want to take over. In fact President Nelson's "tongue in cheek" comment comment is probably what inspired my Stake President to organize the Quorums as he did. In the past of course with different groups there were many opportunities to serve, now not as many. I was a teacher in the High Priest Group for many years, but only three in my present Ward. In our "round circle" meeting last month, I asked for a talk from the April 1985 General Conference as a topic. So the Elders Quorum President assigned me the task of teaching, or leading the discussion. An "Elder", and elsewhere on a different website told me that I should not have suggested the talk I did, as each talk or lesson (I am told) is supposed to come from the most recent General Conference, (although the Gospel is the Gospel) and suggested I took advantage of the much younger Elders Quorum President, which of course that was not my intent. In our "round circle" meeting, almost every comment that is made by.a High Priest, is very quickly followed, and at times shot down by a number of Elders. It has gotten to the point, that no High Priest ever speaks in any setting.
Now to the "ministering part", our Elders Quorum President just used the Home Teaching assignments, so nothing has changed. If that was the goal, then why the name change. Even in my own home with Sunday dinners, my son and son-in-law, try and does tell me that, "no matter what I think, I am no better than they are". I say this without fear, I HAVE never thought I was above, or better than ANY Elder. I need other High Priests like this change, as almost everything was just an unnecessary duplication of duties. The sad things is that after a few months of these changes, and not being asked to do anything, many in our Quorum, just come to Sacrament and leave Even worse, we sit for class where the choir sits, just five rows, so our Elders Quorum President gets out a microphone, saying he is doing it for all of us old men. It is not funny, the first time he gave me the mike, I told him, "I can hear and speak loudly, and that at this distance (five rows) a dead man could hear me, or anyone else.
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It has been a while...
When we fail to forgive, we fail to live. We remain stuck in the past, and allow those who have harmed us (perceived or real) to continue to harm us. I thought that I might post something here, other than an announcement, a hard lesson I learned many years ago. A wonderful lesson that taught to me so much, and some wonderful words God revealed to me, and allowed me to write. At this time I share these words before I forget, and before they become cage liners at the bottom of some birdcage. So, click "see more", if you wish to read these comments, or can think of someone who may benefit from these words, to see what a loving God gave to one such as I...
Forgive
Forgive,
The scripture seemed to read
As I took another look.
Forgive,
The scripture clearly said
Annoyed, I closed the book!
"Forgive",
The Spirit softly spoke
Startled, I did fear.
"Forgive",
The Spirit louder spoke
I pretended not to hear.
"Forgive",
The Savior said to me,
I quickly questioned; Why?
"Forgive",
The Savior said again
"For this I came to die.Then bitterly I cried out,
How can Thou know my pain?
The wounds that I have suffered,
My tears that fell like rain?
Then quietly he spoke my name,
And said, "I understand".
Reached out that he may lift me,
With wounds in both His hands.
Ashamed; I said how can I?
He reminded me again,
"For he who will not forgive,
In him lies the greater sin"?Forgive,
The scripture seemed to read
As I took another look.
Forgive,
The scripture clearly said
I now embraced the book.
"Forgive",
The Spirit softly spoke
Now, I did not fear.
"Forgive",
The Spirit louder spoke
Once deaf, I now can hear.
"Forgive",
The Savior said to me,
"To you this I give".
"Forgive",
The Savior said again,
"For this I came to live".William E Lee
July 1996
Copyright 1996I thank with all my heart for a loving and forgiving Mother, who seeing my need to forgive, asked me to pray and write this. When she asked, I retired to my childhood room, said a short prayer, and this poem came to me as was written in 10 minutes. True story! So, it is truly not my words, but the words and lesson of he who forgives all, who will repent and simply ask.
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14 hours ago, Fether said:
Whenever the church has interactions with the LGBTQ+ community, it stirs a series of thoughts and questions.
What is the ultimate vision? Obviously it is rooted in charity and acceptance but not quite reaching into adoption of standards. Do we see some day in the future where homosexual couples are freely marrying each other outside of the church yet attending church faithfully? Even holding “minor” callings like a Sunday school teacher?
Will the LGBTQ community ever stop seeing the church as a religion of bigotry if We never change our view of marriage, but still put as much efforts into strengthening our ties with them?
Does anyone believe that one day the church will allow homosexuals to receive temple recommends?? I definitely don’t.
First of all, the Church has always admonished parents to love their children in the same context as scriptures states, "husbands love your wives, even as Jesus Christ, loved the Church and gave his life for it". (Hope I quoted it correctly). I have a Gay daughter, and would be willing to give my life for her, or suffer what punishments due her, as God did for me and gave all, I would do the same. Tomorrow all of my family will be in Church, including my daughter, where she has never been badly received, as well as her "wife". Tomorrow, my youngest granddaughter will be blessed, which is why we will all will be there.
In addtion, regardless of the Church's position on issues of homosexuality, I am not surprised nor shocked, on their outreach efforts to the Gay community. Nor am I surprised at a recent contribution to a Gay group in Utah, to help with counseling of young people who may be considering suicied. As each of these matters are an effort to reach out to all who are in need. Such actions by the Church are in keeping with the commandments of God. We are commanded to "love the sinner and hate the sin", (a paraphrase). Every Latter-day Saint, should be forgiving, and quick to come to the aid of any who we may be considering harming themselves. Suicide cuts short a life, and retards the chance for repentance, progression in this life, and the life too come". However all of the efforts of the Church, dis not change the doctrines if a scripture, scripture dating back 5,000 years. So, we all should tread softly in reading too much into recent statements.
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On May 12, 2009 at 4:48 PM, annamaureen said:
Will there be polygamy in the Celestial Kingdom?
I'm getting married in five weeks. The idea that my fiancé and will covenant to be devoted and faithful to each other, only to have him take more wives in the eternities, really, really upsets me. It makes me feel like our sacred bonds of marriage will be meaningless. I've confessed my feelings to my fiancé, and he too was bothered by the scenario.
I certainly will not, I am a one woman man, now and forever. Since polygamy has always be voluntary, it would remain so in the eternities.
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On April 16, 2012 at 4:50 PM, lizzy16 said:
So, I know that the Sacrament is very sacred. And there's no point in taking it if you haven't repented of anything. I often times just take the sacrament and treat it very very lightly. It's my goal to be more respectful of the sacredness of the sacrament. Growing up I don't think I ever really understand the Sacrament very well. Maybe because it was such a pattern in my life. I didn't get the meaning.
Do you think children partaking of the sacrament is kind of a mockery? They don't have anything to repent of, nor do they understand.
I think if children after they turned 8 were told they could take the sacrament, and explain it even more. It might help them to understand the sacredness of it.
What are your thoughts?
Liz
Partaking of the Sacrament by those prior to baptismal age is not mockery, as they cannot partake of it unworthy. It is a mockery for the unrepentant to do so. Having said that, no one can be sinless but the very young, but we are expected (required) to make every effort. The Sacrament is also a teaching tool, a reason why we don't warehouse our children during this most important meeting, as do other Faiths.
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On July 2, 2018 at 7:07 PM, DennisTate said:
and I am truly impressed as I have read about twenty or more chapters of Gospel Principles.
I really like the following statement for many reasons:
https://www.lds.org/manual/gospel-principles/chapter-41-the-postmortal-spirit-world?lang=eng
I have visited many Temples, in the U.S., and abroad. Each time I have felt the Holy Spirit in such wonderful ways. Over the years I have debated with anti-Mormons who claim that it is all manufactured experiences, or that our Temples are just used as a "control mechanism", to "keep us in line". I have spoken with former members who beliece that they were just deceived, and former members who admit to having Spiritual experiences, while in the Temple. The truth is the experience is not only being in such a place, but the place the Temple has within our lives. Like any place of worship, we bring with us the baggage (be it heavy or light) from our own life's experience. I remember once going to a Synagogue to do an inspection for my job, while working for the City of Atlanta. When I walked in the front door there was a family there with their son who was meeting with his Rabbi. Upon entering, I felt the Holy Spirit in a powerful way, I was not surprised, but I was intrigued at the experience. I remember the scripture from the New Testament come to mind, "Wherever two or more are gathered in my name, I will be their also". The interesting thing is this scripture applies to Jesus Christ I thought, and with that thought I was reminded of Christ's intercessory prayer. In this prayer he speaks of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost as one, and those who are believers as one, one with one another, and one with God.
It it clear, that the light of Christ dwells with all, even though all may not clearly understand the nature of God, and the roe that Jesus Christ plays in their knowledge of "Good and Evil". It is a light that shines brightly within some people, and different Faiths. Or it shines dimly within others due to unrepentant sins, or incorrect teaching. Also sadly, not at all to those who have snuffed it out through rebellion, when God "turns them over to a reprobate mind". I have learned that we can carry it within our own Temple, "ourselves", which can make the Temple experience so much more powerful. Or when beaten down by life, we can rediscover it in our Sacrament meetings, and our trips to the Temple building. Either way, it is a wondrous place to pear beyond the veil within our hearts and mind, and see the face of God. So, I am so glad you have had, and will continue to have these wonderful bursts of light that come from the word of God, and the physical blessing of a Temple to attend, and re-attend.
- DennisTate, Sunday21 and SilentOne
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On June 27, 2018 at 1:42 AM, pwrfrk said:
Is it morally or ethically permissible for anyone baptized in the church to set aside the gospel and conduct expected of Mormons so they can "keep" their career?
I have seen this with a few cops I know, they said they set aside the church and church standards so they can keep their jobs. I feel that if they-be it doctors, lawyers, cops and politicians, too-set aside their standards so they can do their job, then it is conduct unbecoming a priesthood holder.
I reflect on it like this- when you do wrong to someone, it is worthless to ask God to forgive you until you have asked the person you wronged to forgive you. Then, if when you wronged them there were damages, you must compensate them accordingly. Then, and only then, will you be forgiven.
What would the expected standards be? Is it morally acceptable to set aside God for a job? What about when you retire and return to the church? Do you somehow have a special prayer to say so God will forgive you, even though your victims don't have to?
To me there is nothing else about setting the church aside for a career could mean, but the commission of immoral and unethical conduct. What else could there be? Does that make it any mor right if no one is harmed and it's just immoral or unethical conduct?
I spent 8 years in the Army, and 23 in law-enforcement, and never had to "set aside" my Faith (LDS) nor my Faith in Jesus Christ. If someone is knowing violating the commandments to keep their job, it is not worth it. Undercover work can certainly be a challenge for police officers, even duties in the military. But, being true to one's Faith is an asset to being successful in all endeavors, I would think, and from experience.
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On April 6, 2018 at 9:30 PM, pam said:
So this is a subject I have a really hard time understanding. Mainly because I keep seeing so many conflicting opinions on the subject.
So I have always learned that this life is the time to repent and get our lives in order and on the right path. Yet many say that after death we have the chance to repent so that we can progress.
I understand those that have never had the opportunity to learn of Jesus Christ or of the gospel. I totally get that. But what of those who didn't do that who did have the opportunity. Members who chose their own path instead of following the commandments and gospel teachings and principles.
I guess I just don't get why anyone who chose NOT to repent would get another chance in the next life. What would be the purpose of our journey and testing in this life?
I realize that this is all between the individual and God but I still get confused over the conflicting opinions.
IMO, because life did not begin here, nor does it end here, we need God as much as always. The sins in and of the flesh that we commit, require all our efforts to repent of them while we are in the flesh. However, there is no way "anyone" could remember every sin, which is why we need the Grace of our Lord Jesus Christ. Sins are most easily repented of when we do so quickly, much the same as caring for an open wound. The confusion I think is when we discuss those who have rejected Jesus Christ their entire lives, and with every action, these have no hope of afterlife repentance. The real question is this, are those we think of rejecting Jesus Christ, or the teachings that others have concerning him? God only knows the truth, and we should have faith in his judgement. Because unlike the judgements and teachings of men, his judgements and his teachings are righteous.
Across The Hills
in Creative Arts
Posted
Across The Hills
Today I walked across the hills
Green carpet filled with daffodils.
Lives once lived, but now forgotten,
Remembered not by those begotten.
An eagle rides upon the wind,
He rises high, then falls again.
Unaware of that which lies below
Forgotten dreams, now silent souls.
Children who once mourned parent's death,
Now themselves are laid to rest.
Generations past, a new day dawns,
Generations now, where have they gone?
Tears once shed here in this place
The passing time will soon erase.
Painful memories they once did fear,
Now bittersweet they hold so dear.
The righteous say, "We rise again".
The godless say, "This is the end".
The foolish say, "I do not know".
The dying say, "Just let me go!
All is vain, I've heard them say,
"Life is hard, then slips away".
And yet the whisper,"It will not end".
A still small voice, "We rise again."
Man he rises out of the dust,
Live he will, and love he must.
Then with age, his eyes turn down
To lay to rest here in this ground.
Spring it struggles to arise
White clouds amid a dark blue sky,
Yet on the wind, it's winter chills
Today I walked, across the hills.
William E Lee
April 1994
Copyright 1996