bert10

Hi Jonathan....I am sorry this post will not reach you in time. I have put down the parts in quotation marks and then I have answered below each point that I have put down. ""Nevertheless, over the last few years, I have done quite a bit of study on Protestant Systematic Theology and doctrine. I have a few questions that I am eager to hear an LDS explanation on. I know that one can have all the knowledge in the world and not have a testimony of the Spirit. However, I am hopeful that this thread can be used of the Spirit to enlighten my understanding."" I realize that there is not yet a question in the above post but you did touch on one of the most important part of the teachings of Jesus and of the Apostles. If you have been with the Christians you will notice that is not what they teach...nor can they since they [in general] deny the Spirit of prophecy and so can only teach ABOUT God and to put one's faith in the Bible which is interpreted according to the religion one is in. - Instead of in God. I will end here with one verse. It will also help address your question below: The testimony of Jesus can only come by the Spirit of prophecy: Revelation 19:10 - And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. ---------------------------------------------------- "I am headed off to dinner, and will pose a few additional doctrinal questions later. However, I would like to ask one that is pressing on me before I head out the door." ""From what I remember of LDS Theology, Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit are three separate beings with bodies. Those who are born into the earth have been sent here from the pre-existence for a mortal probation. We are, therefore, children of God, regardless of whether we are members of the Church. In order to "pass the test," return to Heavenly Father, and receive exaltation in eternity, we are given free agency to choose or reject the One True Church. For those who did not have the opportunity to hear the message of the restored gospel, the ordinance of baptisms for the dead have been instituted to preach this message to those who are in spirit prison."" <> Correction, we have been given free will to learn to choose the GOOD from the NOT-GOOD [remember the tree of the knowledge of good and evil ?] and to learn by trial and error to purify ourselves by learning to hear God in our hearts. If a man does not hear God in his heart....belonging to the LDS church shall not save him. We are all impure until we have can have this contact with God. And nothing impure can live with the Father. --------------------------------------------------------- ""This is a summary of what I remember about the framework of the LDS gospel. Have I recapped correctly? If there are any errors, please let me know. I want to fully understand. My question, therefore, is this: According to this theology, Heavenly Father, who has a body of flesh and bone, must have also gone through a similar "mortal probation" at some point. Is this correct, or a false understanding? If this is the case, does Heavenly Father have a Heavenly Father? Or, is there only one Heavenly Father?"" The LDS on this board can answer your questions on Church doctrines. The question remains....how can you believe if first you do not have contact with God? How can you know what we tell you is true without this contact? That is why the Commandment of God to the LDS is to not teach anything but Repentance to Gentiles. The gospel of repentance is crucial for learning how to hear God in ones heart. --------------------------------------------------------------- ""There is a scripture in John 4:24 that says: God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth."" Which is so true. That is why I preach that God is not in the bible which Christians put their trust in. God abides in the hearts of people who are truly seeking him. And no man is truly seeking Him if he has not done away with his pride and retain his hardened hearts. This is the primary reason why men do not hear God in their hearts today. Hebrews 3:15 - While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation. ......As in the day of the provocation of the Lord. see OT what happened and why Israel inherited over 600 commandments statutes and rituals after this. ------------------------------------------------------ ""Through my studies of Protestant Theology, I have come to understand God as one Spirit, with three personalities manifested as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. However, the essence of God is beyond human comprehension. Nevertheless, it was because of God's love for us that He gave Jesus Christ to save the world. How is this scripture and this view of God as Spirit reconciled in LDS thought and doctrine?"" The LDS have not problem in seeing the Godhead as 3 Beings. Since we also have confirmation in the bible. For example Stephen did actually see the Son literally at the right of the Father. Even in the OT...we have confirmation of this. I have inserted in parentheses what the verse means. Psalms 110:1 - A Psalm of David. The LORD [LORD = GOD the Father who is also called the ONE TRUE GOD]u said unto my Lord,[Lord = God is also Jesus who is the Son of GOD] Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool. What has not been explain fully is the Concept of "ONESS" Who but they who have the Father and the Son abiding in their hearts can even come close to explain what it is? So we are right back at the beginning...without a personal real contact with GOD how can one believe anything we say? I have answered your question by the Spirit of truth. I hope this helps. Peace be unto you bert10

Hebrews 12:29 - For our God is a consuming fire. For them who have repented....And have heard and learned of the Father...they are given to Christ for purification. For them who do not learn repentance they are consumed. John 6:45 - It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me. The purifying fire of God are the trials, tests, afflictions that Jesus gives us. Do not confuse the trials and afflictions that God give us with those who we bring on our own heads because of past sins, errors and wrong thinking. One set of trials and afflictions is designed to further purify us and the other is designed to bring us into repentance. The difference is that one set has a beginning, middle and ending...and the other set has no ending until have completely repented. I hope this helps. Peace be unto you bert10

Bishops are suppose to hear the Lord. Whenever, a Bishop says something..one should check with God. If the Bishop is acting under his own direction....then the condemnation rest on his head. What matters in the end is what does God say to that person? Temple recommends are nice to have...but one does not get into the celestial kingdom because he holds a temple recommend. One enters into that kingdom when he is able to live the laws of that Kingdom. And one of those laws is the ability to hear God in ones heart and another law is the ablity to put the kingdom of God first in ones life. So it all ends up on what does God say? Peace be unto you bert10

I am interested in the responses to these basic questions. 1. Is the LDS definition of being "saved" different from non LDS? Yes, the only persons that are not saved in any kingdoms of God [mansions] are they who become the Sons of perdition...for these the Lord said they were going to the outer darkness. Jude also wrote on this. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2. Does one need to be baptized by one with authority to recieve salvation? What did Jesus Himself say? John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3. Is baptizm a requirement for salvation? See the above words of Jesus...... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4. The first principles of the Gospel are Faith in Christ, Repentence for sins, Baptizm for remission of sins, and reception of the Holy Ghost. Is this needed for salvation or just for exaltation? This is of the gospel of repentance and these things are required in order to break our hearts of pride and to learn to hear God in our heart. No person can be saved without the gospel of repentance...for remissions of sin is for them who repent. Satan and his angels took an oath to never repent so they can now never be forgiven of the Lord. To move on unto perfection this is must do and after wards leave behind Hebrews 6:1 - THEREFORE leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Hebrews 6:2 - Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. In this gospel [of repentance] we can fail and return into repentance. But the Gospel of perfection...if we fail in the things below which is having tasted them...then we cannot be renewed unto repentance because after tasting of the Holy Ghost and reject it...or fallen from it what is there stronger than the Holy Ghost? The Lord said what can season salt after it looses its saltness? Hebrews 6:4 - For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, Hebrews 6:5 - And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, Hebrews 6:6 - If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put [him] to an open shame. I hope this helps. Peace be unto you bert10

Visitation from God. There is no need for this change if we are visited in a vision or in a dream. Neither, is there a need for this change to come over us...if God visit us without His Glory. This change to become spiritual is necessary if we are to go into the glory of God or be near the glory of God. For nothing corruptible nor sinful can come into His presence. For example when Jesus rose into the heavens only those who had become the Spiritual man saw Him do it. And at His Baptism the natural men...only heard thunder while others heard the voice of the Father. In the last days to keep His people safe I do not think that God is going to allow them to come together until the very last minute. For if He were to do so...it would end up like what happened in Zion where God fought fire with fire. And destroyed all the invading armies that the wicked sent against it. His people are all united by the Still Small Voice and are being taught by Him. Not our neighbors not even Satan knows who is being taught of God. John 6:45 - It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me. All those who obey God in their heart belongs to the Church of the First Born. In this church there is no need for teachers and pastors for the Father is our teacher and Pastor. In this church there is no need for a prophet to lead us...for all are prophets because all who have the testimony of Jesus have the Spirit of prophecy. Revelation 19:10 - And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. Numbers 11:29 - And Moses said unto him, Enviest thou for my sake? would God that all the LORD'S people were prophets, and that the LORD would put his spirit upon them! You must realize that you cannot teach this in church. When this church is ready to receive these things the Lord will let it come down from its leaders. Peace be unto you bert10

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>The simple answer is that the life of the flesh is the blood and in the blood also contain the seeds of death. Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God. So those resurrected cannot be of flesh and blood. The flesh is sustained by something else. Leviticus 17:11 - For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul. When the flesh has life from the Spirit....it cannot have blood which is the cause of corruption and death. 1 Corinthians 15:50 - Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. I hope this helps... Peace be unto you bert10

Both the Catholics and the protestants have killed the Saints persecuted each other and started wars in the name of their God. A Church is more than just an organization it is the people. It can also be a political organization whom the people believe in. Already the present financial system of Babylon rules the world. In the Early 1900...Europe and America ruled and controlled over 93% of the world resources and controlled every gate of every nation. A lot has changed since. England who could boast that the Sun never set on its Empire is a shadow of its former self and the USA Economic and military powers are waning. At this time Russia or China cannot fill the void. The greatest enemies of the people of light is the darkness which now expresses itself in the political and financial systems around the world. Peace be unto you bert10

That may be your understanding and that of many as well. However....there is a difference between salvation and exaltation. In Zion the houses of those who became perfected in Christ had the columns of smoke in the day time and the columns of fire at night. The Angels were standing guard over each dwelling...just like when the Lord sent the angel to lead the children of ISrael in the wildeness. The point to the post where the fruits are are the doctrines. Peace be unto you bert10

Then it shall be done according to your faith if it is in accordance to the will of God. Hebrews 11:13 - These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. And also no sinner can enter into the kingdom of God. Only they who learn to walk in the light as Christ is in the light will have their sins cleansed by His Blood. and this teaching shall never be made void by false interpretation of the gospel. 1 John 1:7 - But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. They who die and did not learn to walk in the light As Christ is in the light....shall do so later in Spirit prison where they shall go into the gospel of repentance. This is not hard...there is no escaping the gospel of repentance. Either one does it on the earth or one does in the afterlife. Because no repentance means no forgiveness. Peace be unto you bert10

Receiving the promises of Eternal life. I could refer you to read the ODES OF SOLOMON this is the record of a person who was Quickened [Translated/transfigured] This quickening can last for days...or for thousands of years. This quickening is only partially receiving the power of the resurrection. This is necessary if a person is to meet God in His Glory face to face. Moses was quickened and for the fourty days He was with the Lord....He did not sleep nor eat nor grew tired. So long was his exposure to the glory of God...that Moses continued to glow for 3 days after he left the Lord. He had to wear a vail...because the Israelites were afraid of the Light. Paul wrote on becoming the Spiritual man....because some the early Christians experienced it and wondered what had happened. 1 Corinthians 15:51 - Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 1 Corinthians 15:52 - In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. When we are become the Spiritual man....Christ Himself will come and say..."Ask whatsoever you want and I will do it." This in the past has only been said to the prophets of old because only they moved unto the gospel of perfection in Christ. So you know...that When Jesus says this to an individual....He knows that this individual will ask according to the will of the Father. When the promises of Eternal life is given to you....for LDS this is exaltation......No one can take your life away from you. You alone are master of your life. And you like the early Christians in order to obtain a better resurrection can opt to die for the glory of God. Hebrews 11:35 - Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection: You are probably asking yourself why did ABraham and others go to their grave. Well one of the laws of heaven is that is shall be done to you according to your faith. And so....Ti die in faith. Hebrews 11:13 - These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. 1...These all died in the faith why? Because they did not receive the promises. 2...What promises? The promises of Eternal life. 3...Why did they not receive the promises of Eternal life? ..[because they were aware of them]. But having seen them afar off [in a future time] The great prophets and many patriarchs of old knew about the promises and of Christ and some of them thought that it only applied when Jesus would come. So they saw them afar off. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When you have read the ODES TO SOLOMON [wisdom]...We can discuss this .....Which in it the author says...that He received a body free from pain and afflictions....that His family and friends no longer recognized him. Etc. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Do not worry God will awaken more people and they too shall begin to teach the gospel of perfection. I will tell you this no person can receive these promises until he learns to live the Celestial laws while still on the earth. It would be easier if there were a literal Zion where most of the oppositions to our living the higher laws were removed. For them who do manages to live in this gospel...God will make them Living Fountains.... Hebrews 11:13 - These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of [them], and embraced [them], and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. They shall teach this gospel unto others and this gospel is an overcoming gospel which will literally dry the tears of the people of God. It is the power to overcome the world. And Again no person can do this ...unless He believeth on Jesus as the Scriptures has said [according to the true teachings of Jesus and the Apostles] John 7:38 - He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. Also become very familiar with Chapter 11 of Hebrews. PEace be unto you bert10

I think I shall answer only number 4. Because "exaltation" deals with the gospel of perfection. First one must know what belongs to the gospel of repentance. What does belong in the gospel of repentance? The answer is given in Hebrews 6:1 -2. These are the thngs we must leave behind when we move unto perfection. Hebrews 6:1 - THEREFORE leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; 1... not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, 2... and of faith toward God, Hebrews 6:2 - 3... Of the doctrine of baptisms, and 4... of laying on of hands, and 5... of resurrection of the dead, and 6... of eternal judgment. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What does belong to the gospel of perfection? Well anything that make us unabled to be renewed unto perfection. Hebrews 6:4 - For it is impossible for those who 1... were once enlightened, and 2... have tasted of the heavenly gift, and 3... were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, Hebrews 6:5 - And 4... have tasted the good word of God, and 5... the powers of the world to come, Hebrews 6:6 - If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. Exaltation cannot be achieved unless one has gone thru the gospel of repentance and also the gospel of perfection..which is tasting [experiencing] the Spiritual aspect of the Celestial kingdom. This is what it means...to receive the promises of Eternal life in the flesh. PEace be unto you bert10

Misty Ann you bring good points which are errors in the knowledge of the gospel and of God. And on these points hang many errors of the Christians. IF you have left LDS teachings for the Christians teachings...then you have left the better part of the gospel. Jesus Himself stated that if a man is not born of water and of the Spirit he shall not enter into the kingdom of God. Now whether anyone believes baptism is necessary or not....does not matter....by doing the ordinances as specified by the Lord...one keeps His commandments. Jesus said if you love me keep my commandments. So whether you believe or not in baptism of the water does not matter. If one does as Christ said...then He shall be saved. Now So far..... I have not found a single Christian that even knows what Born again means. Every single one of them were born again in their imaginations....for many had the forms of Godliness but they had none of the powers that goes with it. Many Born again claimed to be sinners which is totally in opposition to the Scriptures which state that He who is born of God sinneth not. These do not hear God in their hearts and neither are they taught of God. Because they are not taught of God they are not given to Christ. For only they who have Heard and learned of the FAther are given to Christ. John 6:45 - It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me. Again, you have fallen from the truth into deception you need not remain there. Of a truth.....There is not a Christian alive who will enter into heaven without first going into the gospel of repentance and also have learned to walk in the light as Christ is in the light. The blood of Christ shall cleanse those who walk in the light as Christ is in the light. And who but the LDS teach on this light? 1 John 1:7 - But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. Peace be unto you bert10

You would err...because it is written both the just and unjust shall be resurrected. So that includes everyone. In order for men to be brought into judgment before God they need to be resurrected. Peace be unto you bert10

How could Enoch and the inhabitants of Zion be translated into heaven if they did not have the fullness of the gospel? How come the LDS do not have columns of flame on their house at night and a column of smoke in the daytime? And Melchizedek and Salem could they have been translated into heaven if they had not the fullness of the Gospel? Can any beings withstand the Glory of God who is not perfected in Christ? By answering these questions then you will know if the fulness of the gospel which is the gospel of perfection was ever on the earth. Peace be unto you bert10

Less than I used to be. PEace be unto you bert10

The answers are in the bible only many Chrisitans are blinded by creeds and so they do not see.... Not only LDS beleive in three heavens...Paul also said He went to the third heaven. 2 Corinthians 12:2 - I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven. Hell is torments....and when our conscience is exposed to the pure light of Christ it is as though we are thrown in a lake of fire and brimstones. Jesus silence the devil before he revealed to much from the other side.... Matthew 8:29 - And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time? Jesus said that the kingdom of God is within us....so where do you think hell is? Luke 17:21 - Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you. We have been given the powers here on the earth to bring heaven down on the earth or raise hell on it. Which do you think men did? The children of the kingdom shall be cast out in the Outer darkness. Matthew 8:12 - But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. The outer darkness is terrible for the light/love of Christ is not. Wandering stars... Jude 1:13 - Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever. If the fear of a lake of fire and brimstones works best for you.....then it is better for you to keep it. For example...When Paul the Pharisian was exposed to the Light of Christ.....He immediately became blind and sick with fever unto death. So much was his spirit in torment and wanted to leave his body....That his own body was burning up....Imagine what type of Spiritual suffering can cause this. Paul was only saved when the Lord sent apostles to forgive him and heal him. Hell is torments akin to being thrown bodily into a lake of fire and brimstones. Whether this exist or not it does not matter for the suffering is such as it would be the same. I hope this helps. Peace be unto you bert10

The answers are in the bible only many Chrisitans are blinded by creeds and so they do not see.... Not only LDS beleive in three heavens...Paul also said He went to the third heaven. 2 Corinthians 12:2 - I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven. Hell is torments....and when our conscience is exposed to the pure light of Christ it is as though we are thrown in a lake of fire and brimstones. Jesus silence the devil before he revealed to much from the other side.... Matthew 8:29 - And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time? Jesus said that the kingdom of God is within us....so where do you think hell is? Luke 17:21 - Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you. We have been given the powers here on the earth to bring heaven down on the earth or raise hell on it. Which do you think men did? The children of the kingdom shall be cast out in the Outer darkness. Matthew 8:12 - But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. The outer darkness is terrible for the light/love of Christ is not. Wandering stars... Jude 1:13 - Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever. If the fear of a lake of fire and brimstones works best for you.....then it is better for you to keep it. For example...When Paul the Pharisee was exposed to the Light of Christ.....He immediately became blind and sick with fever unto death. So much was his spirit in torment and wanted to leave his body....That his own body was burning up....Imagine what type of Spiritual suffering can cause this. Paul was only saved when the Lord sent apostles to forgive him and heal him. Hell is torments akin to being thrown bodily into a lake of fire and brimstones. Whether this exist or not it does not matter for the suffering is such as it would be the same. I hope this helps. Peace be unto you bert10

By the time of Jesus, every tribe of the house of Israel had some representation in the land even though many did not know it. For Jesus did say....that He was sent to the lost sheep of the house of ISrael. Peace be unto you bert10

So what am I missing here? 1. Can I a “normal” spirit/person take upon my own sins? We suffer for our own sins. When we sin in the flesh we also sin spiritually since sin is first conceived in us in our heart. Only the blood of Christ can cleanse us of our sins. And He does this when we learn to walk in the light As Christ is in the light. 1 John 1:7 - But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2. Does this satisfy the demands of Justice? Justice comes after the law is obeyed or transgressed. Justice is for the righteous as well as the unrighteous. As long as men remain under the laws...they shall remained condemned. For who amongst us can live the law perfectly? for James said: James 2:10 - For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. So the solution is to come out from under the law. We do this when we allow ourselves to be led by the Spirit of God. Galatians 5:18 - But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. For wraths of God come after transgressions of the law...and where there is no law there are no transgressions so there is no wrath. Romans 4:15 - Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3. Do those that suffer for there own sins still have to use Christ as there advocate? More do they still recognize Christ as “THE” savior. Which leads … As long as there is no repentance one cannot be helped by God. For the very mission of Jesus was to call sinners unto repentance. Luke 5:32 - I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4. What is the difference of not repenting (no Atonement is used at least not in overcoming spiritual Death) and Sons of Perdition that reject Christ and fight against Him? Satan and his followers took an oath to never repent. Because of this the Holy Ghost...cannot renew them unto repentance...and if one cannot be renewed unto repentance then there is no possibility of being forgiven. There are Christian doctrines that bypass 'repentance' with their abominable doctrines on faith alone or grace alone. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 5. And is Christ/Heavenly Father forgiving me of my sins after I pay for them? That is only the first step...remember in what was taught by John concerning when the Blood of Christ shall cleanse us. 1 John 1:7 - But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. The answer to salvation....is Walking in the Same Light As Christ is in the Light. I gave this as simply as I could. I hope this helps. Peace be unto you bert10