bert10

Bytor The internet is very important for many things. It is a blessing and a condemnation unto man. <>It allowed the the whole gospel even what goes on into the temple to be made available to everyone. - Since they have the whole gospel on the internet as individuals we can answer their questions if the Spirit says so. - God knew that in the last days the internet would be used in this manner. <>It will help separate people into groups and also be invaluable...in preventing people from joining the LDS church before they are ready. <>Ex-Mos are doing great harm to the Church...for them as well as for the LDS it would have been far better if they had never joined in the first place. <> The time of divisions are upon us...and the divisions that the true gospel of GOD brings is literally a gulf between those whose heart can be softened from them who have closed their heart to the Spirit of God. Matthew 10:34 - Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. Matthew 10:35 - For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. Matthew 10:36 - And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. Peace be unto you bert10

Thanks for letting me know that it was rhetorical....but you do put down some really interesting point of views. Your two comments could be used to demonstrate some really interesting stuff. Pontius Pilate also said rhetorically to Jesus what is Truth! Imagine what would have happened if he had been prepared to received it. Peace be unto you bert10

The answer lies in our earthly existence. We are not here to prove God's fore-knowledge....but to prove to ourselves that God's fore-knowledge and plan was/is just. That when we are in heaven...and God shall assign us a position in one of the many mansions we will know without a doubt that the reward whether it be great or small that God will give us.... is just. Prophets, holy men etc were chosen based on what they did in heaven. God is no respecter of persons....It was the faith that they exercised in heaven that opened up the way for them here on the earth. For the law is that all men receive according to their faith. Christians who do not believe in pre-existence will have a real problem with this post. However, everything that exist, or in a state of being is based on faith...first in heaven,,That sets the stage up for us on the earth and then if we continue to build on our faith here on the earth, it shall set the stage which will determine our position in heaven. Everyone is born in this world exactly where he should be,,,,there is no accident. And everyone will return to the Spirit world exactly where he should be and all will then acknowledge that God is right and just in all things. Peace be unto you bert10

If one looks at US Navy tables...there are only two dates were the the Spring Equinox occurred at around 3 pm. It has been a long time since I have looked at it...I do not remember off hand how many days after the Spring Equinox is the real passover.....and the reason why this stuff is not sticking into my mind...is I believe that it is not time to teach this yet. At least not from me. Peace be unto you bert10

Very true....but awareness is a prelude to change for some.- Ignorance which is also called darkness and it is what rules the world and it must be so. For now at least - for the prophecies of Isaiah concerning 1. Men calling good evil and evil good. 2. That men transgress the law, change the ordinances and break the everlasting covenant ..are fulfilled... Most are not aware that we are at this time living in Babylon. The calendar is just one example by which we have been lulled into desecrating the times and seasons of GOD. Many do not know this...but most are pronouncing the names of Pagan deities which were demons more often than the name of God. For example...Thursday....Thor's day. March...comes from the god of war...Mars or Ares. What is scary is the extent that we are living in Babylon in this society and most are totally oblivious to it. Peace be unto you bert10

Yes ....GOD cares. But men are not able to live the laws of the Celestial Kindom which are also the laws of Zion. The calender of Enoch will give men the correct times and seasons according to God taught Enoch in heaven. At this time...our times are in error. In Zion there shall be no votes on this matter...either one will wish to walk by the greater light or one will wish to walk by the lesser light. And besides why would someone vote to use a calender where the names of pagan gods which are demons to mark the months and days of the week? Peace be unto you bert10

Hi All...to figure out the day that Jesus was crucified...one would have to know the Calender of Enoch....which is a Solar calender....meaning walking by the the greater light. Now Jesus was crucified on the real passover date...which is a certain number of days after the spring equinox. The only way for Jesus to be crucified on the real passover date would be if the Hebrew adopted another type of Calender..[Lunar Calender] where an error could be introduced...and so they would crucify Jesus on a day which was not Holy according to their calender. It is not my intention to teach the calender of Enoch...here and God because of the wickedness of men allowed this calender to be relegated to the past. When Zion is on the Earth so will this calendar be again on the earth. When a man is commanded again to walk by this calendar....All the feasts days, holy days,,,,and sabbaths shall always fall on the correct day of the week. For example the first true Sabbath according to the times specified by the Lord is 3 days after the Spring Equinox. Because of wickedness of men...The Lord allowed men to declare their seventh day according to their calendar as Holy. This works for the Jews as well as for the Christians. One of Jesus symbology is the lamb..which are born in the spring. And the lamb is used for Atonement. Jesus was crucified in April as well as born on the same day that he was crucified even at the same time...For Jesus was both the day of deliverance for his people [delivered from Egypt [ie world] and the day of Atonement [Reconciliation]. That is all I wish to say on this at this time. Peace be unto you bert10

Hi All....having read these few posts....I am beginning to believe that few fully understand what being really Grateful and thankful in the eyes of the Lord really means. Ephesians 5:20 - Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ; It is human to give thanks and be grateful for the things we perceive as being good to us...and ignore, hate or even curse what we believe that is evil to us. But we must all rise higher than this....and understand that all things even those life experiences that are really unpleasant are for our good. We must gain that faith...that things are given to us so that we may learn to overcome. And by Gratitude and being thankful....and learning the lessons that the "uncomfortable life experiences bring we can transform them into great blessings. I can easily name five good things that happened to me.... I can also easily name five "uncomfortable life experiences" that have happened to me. They are both blessings. The latter I find carry more blessings and the chief one...it brings me closer to GOD because the more uncomfortable it is the more my heart, mind and eyes are on the Lord. I am often reminded of these verses from the Apostles...as they too were tested in all things... Only they who are tested shall come to understand and gain faith to this level .... Romans 8:35 - Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? Romans 8:36 - As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. Romans 8:37 - Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. Romans 8:38 - For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Romans 8:39 - Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. Who can be persuaded to the levels that the Apostles were that they cannot be separated from the Love of Christ if they do not suffer and consider their sufferings as great blessings? It does not matter if our suffering is caused by our sins or come from GOD..it is how we handle them and learn from them that counts. By handling them correctly we learn meekness, humbleness and patience...by learning from them if for example they came to us because sin...it is repentance completed. For we have learned and profited from them. Peace be unto you bert10

Hi Heavenguard. The Christian can be forgiven for interpreting that part of the bible as a lie told by Abraham...For the law is where much is given much is required..since they have the lesser part of the gospel...Less shall be required of these. But LDS have no excuses before the Lord....we are all brothers and Sisters Literally both spiritually and of the flesh. For we all Sons and Daughters Spiritually from the FATHER and here on the Earth...we are all brothers and sisters from one set of parents..... Adam and Eve. So Abraham Literally told the truth. Sarah is both...His sister and His wife. Peace be unto you bert10

HI Gatsby... What I can say...is that all doubts are a result of fear. Where fear exist it is because Love is not yet perfected in your life. And if Love is not yet perfected...neither is your faith. 1 John 4:18 - There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love. This is what is "Tormenting" you at this time. By Learning to perfect Love in your life.....all the rest will take care of themselves. The two greatest commandments that Jesus gave; is to Love GOD and to love our neighbours. All the other commandments given by prophets were subsets or lowers laws than these two. If we can keep these two commandments ...then we keep all the others. Job was great in the eyes of God...and yet his fears was preventing him from being perfect in love for it is written.... Job 3:25 - For the thing which I greatly feared is come upon me, and that which I was afraid of is come unto me. So God used Satan...to make Job confront his fears. He did perfect his love for GOD in his trials....did perfect his faith...by his perfect love. Let all your works be works of Love.... James 2:22 - Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? I hope this helps. Peace be unto you bert10

HI Cassian... In the verse below...the Law of the husband refers the Husband authority over the wife. For it is written that the head of woman is man and that the head of Man is Christ just as the head of Christ is the Father. The husband is responsible unto God for: 1. Supporting the Family. 2. Spiritual teaching to the Family. 3. the family's happiness. Peace be unto you bert10

Hi Hemidakota. There are a couple doctrines that I go by. 1."All things work together for the good of them that love God........" 2. Because of the first premise...therefore for the righteous they do call "bad things"...more like "Uncomfortable life Experiences" that will lead to their good. 3. The righteous are delivered from their afflictions or destructions examples see Lot...of Sodom and Gomorrah and Joseph who was able to use every uncomfortable life experiences for his good and the good of others. 4. Afflictions and trials for those who are seeking God, is for learning obedience. Hebrews 5:8 - Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; Once the righteous have learned obedience in all things...they have overcome the world and for these....God hears these...even before they leave off from asking. For truly for these whatsoever they ask of God it shall be done. For most people their trials and afflictions are due to some past sin that they may have forgotten to repent of. I know if one does not ask the Holy Ghost to show us our sins it does not have to. I am not commenting for each case here. This is not an individual judgment. Today we know people who are overweight is due to overeating/lack of exercises will have health problems sooner or later because of it. Let not one of these people say that their afflictions is a test of God or a trial of God. And because that they are overweight.....they shall suffer health problems. And if their health problems are not because of Gluttony....they shall be healed if they asked God in faith. I would call this post kind of harsh. Peace be unto you bert10

Hi KosherxMorg...you are correct. Many Christians have used those verses in error. Especially to support their abominable doctrine called the 'Rapture'. I do not wish to repeat the explanation...please find my other posting in this tread. There are two Great coming yet to occur. And there are prophecies for both. Many have confused what will happened at the end of the millennium with the Coming that the Lord shall set up the kingdom. Nowhere in the past, not even when the flood came that the Lord caused the people to be raptured. God was able to protect and even allow the children of Israel in the land of Goshen under Moses to prosper while the plagues was hurting Egypt. God has used these things in the past to perfect the faith of the Saints. Another clue as to who will be raptured [ie....translated which is for all who become born again and overcome the world...and there is no time prescribed for this -- it happens whenever a person is ready to receive the promises of Eternal Life in the flesh]or not. The clue is this one..if a person is not worthy to see the Lord right now at this instance he is not any more worthy the next morning should Christ come. Peace be unto you bert10

Hi...MrNirom....the understanding of those verses is the opposite what the world think they mean. They who remain shall be those who are not the wicked. The ones taken are the ones who cannot withstand that day. When the earth is lowered in Glory as in the fall or raised in glory at the second coming...there need to be a change of the bodies to follow the earth either in the fall or out of it. That is the best way I can say it. Those who cannot do it shall be burned away. The earth shall be transformed and and those who shall remain are those whom shall be transformed it. Isaiah through the Spirit said that there would be few men left [on the earth]. The Burning day of the Lord. Isaiah 34:9 - And the streams thereof shall be turned into pitch, and the dust thereof into brimstone, and the land thereof shall become burning pitch. I do not wish to go into prophecy .. Peace be unto you bert10

Hi Prisonchaplain....I would like the Other LDS to bring up the points. Also I do not wish to be the only one to do this all the time. Sometimes I am tired and would like to receive teachings rather than be the one giving them out. From my perspective and understanding.... there are two types of gospel since I am dealing with Christians and LDS....for others there are at least three Gospels. ------------------------------------------- Each gospel is represented by a covenant with conditions and consequences. Each Covenant of GOD is an everlasting covenant..because Each Covenant contains laws of love for that particular covenant. We can only fulfill a lower Covenant by living a Higher One. Each man is welcome to try to reach perfection by living the laws of the Covenant that he prefers. The laws of Moses for example...contains a covenant of laws at the most basic level. It is only one step up from the animal kingdom. It basically teach...."An eye for an eye...a tooth for a tooth,,a life for a life." It teaches that there are physical consequences when we do physical stuff that is not correct to our neighbor. And so on. For example some of the things - that you teach on are not for the future but are for now. The Kingdom is literally At Hand....or as far as your hands go. It has been at hand for each man since the days of the apostles...only man has seen this as a promise in the future rather than a reality for now. They did not have the vision nor hope of this....nor can any man exercise faith if he has no hope. I tell you the truth....the kingdom of God is within each one of us. [Luke 17:21] When you have prophets, healings, visions, dreams, revelations..then the kingdom of God is arrived for that man. When many do this...it shall be on the earth. For the kingdom of GOD is not to be forced on man...it is to be established by love, meekness and humbleness. The tribulations/wraths are for removing the wicked who have stopped those who are taught of God from establishing the kingdom. There shall come a day when those who do not hear God in their heart shall be stopped from preaching or teaching the gospel. That has only been one point. Peace be unto you bert10 Lnks to both.

Hi Skalenfehl... This type of posts is not easy to understand and many are not ready for a lot of the stuff that is in it. There are so many great truths in the BOM. I think I would have accepted it any time after my twenties even without the missionaries. There is no doubt whatsoever that J. Smith was/is a prophet who wrote down great truths. And as the world continues to reject this book so shall the indignation of the Lord grow until the wraths begin to take men by the millions from this earth. Peace be unto you bert10

HI prison chaplain....I disagree with your entire post. Are there any LDS out there that can point the errors to Prison Chaplain? As for what the kingdoms will be like well they shall be based on the laws of Love. The highest of these will be the kingdom whom the people Render good twain to the evil done or perceived done to them. I tell you the truth....Only they who live that law and others laws of love on that level....shall live with the Father. The laws that we are willing to accept and are able to live on the earth shall determine which kingdom we shall inherit. God shall not give us a kingdom whose laws are are not able to abide in. Peace be unto you bert10

Hi Skakenfehl. The OP's original question was why did people in the scriptures live so long? I have to assume he meant those whom I quoted. There are many factors as to why they lived long life. Basically they dealt with receiving blessings for observing laws of God. As the two bible verses in my previous post showed. Wages of sin is death [body] and Righteousness of God is life even life eternal. Some of the factors were: 1. They lived the words of wisdom. Even though it was not given they were observing it. Adam and the first generation live this law perfectly. And their bodies were not born with deficiencies. So they lived long life. 2. The Lord wanted to replenish the earth. 3. It is only later that they learn to pass their food by fire. [destroying many of the nutrients needed] 4. It is written that God shall shorten the days of the wicked. This is to prevent them from receiving torments greater they can bear. 5. The bible verse below came in the days that men through sorcery with the watchers begat giants...God said... Genesis 6:3 - And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years. I do not have all the reasons why God shortened the life of men.But the gift of God to Adam and Eve was perfect bodies.....so they had long life... the shortening of their days seem to have come in the time of Great wickedness, where sorcery, violence and the corruption of all flesh was occurring. ----------------------------------------------------- "They lived long in their mortal probation, a time they could use for repentance, which is what Nephi was referring to". For every sin we commit in thoughts, words and action...God prescribe a time of repentance before justice has its way with us. This time period between that sin and its consequence is the Grace of God to sinners. The time given to repent is based on our individual strengths and weaknesses. A time the sons and daughters of Adam and Eve could use to repent which they did not use. In ten generation evil was not restricted and mankind fell so far and became so corrupted that God had no choice but start over with Noah. -------------------------------------------------------------- Those in your quotes above transcended their probation and lived longer for other reasons. The likes of Enoch, Elijah, three Nephites, etc, all were granted privileges that all the others did not have (Adam, Noah, etc.) Or did they? Is this what you're saying? Because a lengthened mortal probation and translation aren't exactly the same. It is the same power....the power to heal and the power to raise the dead is the same power. Translations, transfiguration, Being born Again, being quickened, becoming the Spiritual man is all the same; it is the power of the Resurrection whose purpose is to quicken. A man does not need to be in the grave to be quickened. I also think this quickening is not sealed in full until the plan of salvation is over. I do not think that any has received the fullness of the change, which was spoken about by Paul. But the change that comes over us..is in the twinkling of an eye. I tell you the truth no man of flesh and blood can enter into heaven. Not even Enoch and Elijah. They need to become the Spiritual man in order to go to the Spiritual realm. Neither can flesh and blood see GOD's face and live. When this happens...there is a change that comes over the person..that raises him to the Spiritual level. And if a man stays at that level long enough like Moses for example..who glowed for three days afterwards and had to stay in his tent and wear a veil over his face for the people were afraid of the countenance of God emanating from the very cells of his body. I believe had Moses stayed longer with the Lord he would have been translated. This below is a partial of the doctrine. 1 Corinthians 15:50 - Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 1 Corinthians 15:51 - Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 1 Corinthians 15:52 - In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 1 Corinthians 15:53 - For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 1 Corinthians 15:54 - So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. Odes of Solomon 7. I have been united to Him, because the lover has found the Beloved, because I love Him that is the Son, I shall become a son. 8. Indeed he who is joined to Him who is immortal, truly shall be immortal. 9. And he who delights in the Life will become living. 1 Corinthians 15:55 - O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? 1 Corinthians 15:56 - The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. (by the law comes sin and with sin comes wraths because of transgressions and with transgressions came death) 1 Corinthians 15:57 - But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. (Galatians 5:18 - But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. 1 Corinthians 15:58 - Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord. (Romans 8:14 - For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.) ------------------------------------------------------- More on this from the BOM. Oness is to have the Father and Son abide in us [see prayer of Jesus] and we in THEY. When it occurs.... Moses 6:61 - Therefore it is given to abide in you; (1) the record of heaven; (2) the Comforter; (3)the peaceable things of immortal glory; (4)the truth of all things;(5) that which quickeneth all things, (6)which maketh alive all things; (7) that which knoweth all things, (8) and hath all power according to wisdom, mercy, truth, justice, and judgment. Only 5 and 6 pertains...to us at this time. And it is that which quickeneth all things...and that which maketh all things alive. It is the same power...that quickens... and maketh all things alive. Did you read the Odes of Solomon yet. This is a book on translation that God allowed a man to write. In it ...he states that "He received a body free from pain and afflictions." He also states that anyone who unites with someone who is immortal becomes immortal. The true purpose of the UNITED ORDER is to unite with GOD so that we inherit from Him all things.... And if we do this...then as in Moses 6:61 IT IS GIVEN TO ABIDE IN US.... As I have said in the previous post....many were not translated and went to the grave even though they had great faith...because they did not receive the promises of God and the reason why is that they had seen them from afar. Had they had or remembered this gospel that it is given to abide in us all things of GOD even the power to rebuke death indefinitely. things would have been differently for many. This is part of the Gospel Jesus said to His Apostles just before His crucifixion..."I have yet many things to say unto you but ye cannot bear them now". It is also the wisdom Paul said that He spoke to them who were perfect. If you still do not understand just be patient. I hope that i have answered all the questions. Peace be unto you bert10

Hi skalenfehl My thoughts are thus: A long life is relative. So is our worthiness and companionship of the Lord. But who today is living to be anywhere near Adam's and Methuselah's age? I can name you lot's of people who have lived even longer than Adam and Methuselah. <> Enoch and the in the inhabitants of Zion did received the promises of eternal life in the flesh. [they have not yet received a fullness of it but it is coming] <>Melchizedek and the inhabitants of his city Salem after the flood. They also received the promise of Eternal life in the flesh. <> Elijah is another one. <> The Three Nephites <> John the Beloved is another. Many early Christians who believed in the promises in their lifetime did receive them while yet they were on the Earth. What happens is that they become ministering Spirits of the Lord...they serve missions here and there. I imagine many holy men from heaven are amongst us even today...quietly going about and preparing individuals for what is coming. Giving teachings here and there...opening the minds of people to unimagined possibilities. The Patriarchs who were faithful but had not completely overcome the world or did not believe in the promises applied to them....died in the faith at a ripe old age surrounded by their families. In Hebrews chapter 11 - the Apostle was speaking about such men...even to expounding the great faith of some individuals and yet they died even to contrasting them to Enoch who ....did not die... Hebrews 11:13 - These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of [them], and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. Why these great men of the Faith died? Ans: they did not receive the promise. Why did they not receive the promise? Ans:Because they saw them afar off. it is said it shall be done according to one's faith. And if one puts a time's stamp on his faith..then it shall be done according to his faith. Anyone who is worthy and is waiting for death in order to receive the promises of God for these it shall happen after death. It shall be done according to their faith. Others choose to give up their immortality in order to gain a better resurrection....by not accepting deliverance from heaven. Hebrews 11:35 - Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection: One of the greatest gift a man may give God is their immortality once they have received the promises of it. These are allowed to remain on the earth so that their martyrdom can be used to 'Good' purposes and effect changes in the life of men. --------------------------------------------------- It is as easy for us to lose our way in the last days as it was in ancient days, even for the elect. King David is an excellent example. I do agree that we can be as close to the Lord today as the people of old could, too, according to our righteousness. That right there is key--according to our righteousness. King David was a righteous man, but in a moment of weakness he succumbed to temptation, committed adultery with Bathsheba and then committed an even more grievous sin--murdering Uriah. The very elect can be deceived. King David had not come to the point where he overcame the world. He was not always being led by the Spirit of God but often by his lusts of the flesh. When David chose to Sin with Bathsheba...He had warnings in his hearts. Though His warnings were weak because David..did take wives and concubines that God had not given him. Had David received a fullness of the Holy Ghost... He would have put himself beyond repentance and so .....He would have committed the Sin which no forgiveness is possible. David fell because he choose the be led by the flesh rather than by the Spirit. ---------------------------------------------- Consider what was written by Nephi: 2 Ne. 2:19-21 19 And after Adam and Eve had partaken of the forbidden fruit they were driven out of the garden of Eden, to till the earth. 20 And they have brought forth children; yea, even the family of all the earth. 21 And the days of the children of men were prolonged, according to the will of God, that they might repent while in the flesh; wherefore, their state became a state of probation, and their time was lengthened, according to the commandments which the Lord God gave unto the children of men. For he gave commandment that all men must repent; for he showed unto all men that they were lost, because of the transgression of their parents. Consider their ages: Adam, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph by bibletalk on Blogster Here is a couple of verses concerning the promises of Christ. Proverbs 10:27 - The fear of the LORD prolongeth days: but the years of the wicked shall be shortened Romans 6:23 - For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Adam and Eve never committed any sins after Eden. Is it not correct that they should have so many years? And the wicked is it not justice and love of God that he shortens their years. If a man wish to have many years like John, Enoch, the three Nephites...he must become the Spiritual man...or a man born in the Spirit of God. ----------------------------------------------------------- Now consider the following scripture about the last days: Joseph Smith—Matthew 1 20 And except those days should be shortened, there should none of their flesh be saved; but for the elect’s sake, according to the covenant, those days shall be shortened. 22 For in those days there shall also arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch, that, if possible, they shall deceive the very elect, who are the elect according to the covenant. But as you said, it is possible that the elect will not be deceived if they treasure up God's word: 37 And whoso treasureth up my word, shall not be deceived, for the Son of Man shall come, and he shall send his angels before him with the great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together the remainder of his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. It seems that we are both right. Now this last part has nothing to do with shortening or lengthening the years of man. It is dealing with a period of time filled with extreme wickedness on the earth. ------------------------------------------------------------ 37 And whoso treasureth up my word, shall not be deceived, You and I know that the bible cannot be completely trusted. As for the BOM there has been many changes in it since it was first printed. I do not wish to go into it. The man who treasureth the words of God: as it comes into his heart by the Spirit of God shall not be deceived. When we read the bible and the BOM we are to read these books with the Spirit and not apart from it. the Living Word as it is sometimes called must come from a Living GOD not a dead book. It is written that by the letter is death...and by the Spirit is life. Peace be unto you bert10

Hi skalenfehl My thoughts are thus: A long life is relative. So is our worthiness and companionship of the Lord. But who today is living to be anywhere near Adam's and Methuselah's age? I can name you lot's of people who have lived even longer than Adam and Methuselah. <> Enoch and the inhabitants of Zion did received the promises of eternal life in the flesh. [they have not yet received a fullness of it but it is coming] <>Melchizedek and the inhabitants of his city Salem after the flood. They also received the promise of Eternal life in the flesh. <> Elijah is another one. <> The Three Nephites <> John the Beloved is another. Many early Christians who believed in the promises in their lifetime did receive them while yet they were on the Earth. What happens is that they become ministering Spirits of the Lord...they serve missions here and there. I imagine many holy men from heaven are amongst us even today...quietly going about and preparing individuals for what is coming. Giving teachings here and there...opening the minds of people to unimagined possibilities. The Patriarchs who were faithful but had not completely overcome the world or did not believe in the promises applied to them....died in the faith at a ripe old age surrounded by their families. In Hebrews chapter 11 - the Apostle was speaking about such men...even to expounding the great faith of some individuals and yet they died even to contrasting them to Enoch who ....did not die... Hebrews 11:13 - These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of [them], and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. Why these great men of the Faith died? Ans: they did not receive the promise. Why did they not receive the promise? Ans:Because they saw them afar off. it is said it shall be done according to one's faith. And if one puts a time's stamp on his faith..then it shall be done according to his faith. Anyone who is worthy and is waiting for death in order to receive the promises of God for these it shall happen after death. It shall be done according to their faith. Others choose to give up their immortality in order to gain a better resurrection....by not accepting deliverance from heaven. Hebrews 11:35 - Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection: One of the greatest gift a man may give God is their immortality once they have received the promises of it. These are allowed to remain on the earth so that their martyrdom can be used to 'Good' purposes and effect changes in the life of men. --------------------------------------------------- It is as easy for us to lose our way in the last days as it was in ancient days, even for the elect. King David is an excellent example. I do agree that we can be as close to the Lord today as the people of old could, too, according to our righteousness. That right there is key--according to our righteousness. King David was a righteous man, but in a moment of weakness he succumbed to temptation, committed adultery with Bathsheba and then committed an even more grievous sin--murdering Uriah. The very elect can be deceived. King David had not come to the point where he overcame the world. He was not always being led by the Spirit of God but often by his lusts of the flesh. When David chose to Sin with Bathsheba...He had warnings in his hearts. Though His warnings were weak because David..did take wives and concubines that God had not given him. Had David received a fullness of the Holy Ghost... He would have put himself beyond repentance and so .....He would have committed the Sin which no forgiveness is possible. David fell because he choose the be led by the flesh rather than by the Spirit. ---------------------------------------------- Consider what was written by Nephi: 2 Ne. 2:19-21 19 And after Adam and Eve had partaken of the forbidden fruit they were driven out of the garden of Eden, to till the earth. 20 And they have brought forth children; yea, even the family of all the earth. 21 And the days of the children of men were prolonged, according to the will of God, that they might repent while in the flesh; wherefore, their state became a state of probation, and their time was lengthened, according to the commandments which the Lord God gave unto the children of men. For he gave commandment that all men must repent; for he showed unto all men that they were lost, because of the transgression of their parents. Consider their ages: Adam, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph by bibletalk on Blogster Here is a couple of verses concerning the promises of Christ. Proverbs 10:27 - The fear of the LORD prolongeth days: but the years of the wicked shall be shortened Romans 6:23 - For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Adam and Eve never committed any sins after Eden. Is it not correct that they should have so many years? And the wicked is it not justice and love of God that he shortens their years. If a man wish to have many years like John, Enoch, the three Nephites...he must become the Spiritual man...or a man born in the Spirit of God. ----------------------------------------------------------- Now consider the following scripture about the last days: Joseph Smith—Matthew 1 20 And except those days should be shortened, there should none of their flesh be saved; but for the elect’s sake, according to the covenant, those days shall be shortened. 22 For in those days there shall also arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch, that, if possible, they shall deceive the very elect, who are the elect according to the covenant. But as you said, it is possible that the elect will not be deceived if they treasure up God's word: 37 And whoso treasureth up my word, shall not be deceived, for the Son of Man shall come, and he shall send his angels before him with the great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together the remainder of his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. It seems that we are both right. Now this last part has nothing to do with shortening or lengthening the years of man. It is dealing with a period of time filled with extreme wickedness on the earth. ------------------------------------------------------------ 37 And whoso treasureth up my word, shall not be deceived, You and I know that the bible cannot be completely trusted. As for the BOM there has been many changes in it since it was first printed. I do not wish to go into it. The man who treasureth the words of God: as it comes into his heart by the Spirit of God shall not be deceived. When we read the bible and the BOM we are to read these books with the Spirit and not apart from it. the Living Word as it is sometimes called must come from a Living GOD not a dead book. It is written that by the letter is death...and by the Spirit is life. Peace be unto you bert10

Sorry error double posts.

Hi Skanefehl - It is all related....Children of the Light shall have long life, health and prosperity. The Lord promise to them who would put the kingdom first in their life that all things shall be added to them. In Isaiah...God said...before they leave off from asking I will hear. You are saying that in these latter days that it is easy to lose our way. It is not. though there may be times when we have to stop and listen even ask God to make the way clearer.... But mostly all things flows to us...either from the Light or from the darkness.More on this below (Isaiah 30:21). Anyone trying to walk by the BOM or Bible shall be deceived by Satan. Our wisdom and knowledge of those books and of the laws on what is right and wrong is simply not sufficient. It can never suffice and prevail against the gates of hell. -------------------------------------------------------------- We all have crosses to bear....The symbology for the Cross is the post that rises from the ground and goes up straight to heaven. This is the symbology for the straight path....And in each of our life...we come to cross-roads where we can turn to the left [error] or we can turn to the right [zealousness]. I can say that the difference between the straight and the right or the left is like night and day. Isaiah taught what it would be like. Isaiah 30:21 - And thine ears shall hear a word behind thee, saying, This is the way, walk ye in it, when ye turn to the right hand, and when ye turn to the left. For them who have become the children of the Light...the things of darkness are made manifest and their view of what is of the Light and of the Darkness is made plain. Hearing God in our heart is the Light we should walk by....It is also called the "Noon day sun" and below is the condemnation of the Lord to the elders who are not walking by the Greater Light. For to walk in darkness is to walk according to our light instead of that of God. D&C 95:6 - They who are not chosen have sinned a very grievous sin, in that they are walking in darkness at noon-day. if it were possible to deceive the elect. But it is not. For nothing shall separate them from the Love of Christ unless they willingly and knowingly choose the darkness after knowing the Light. For these they are unable to be renewed unto repentance. Let me know what you think. Peace be unto you bert10

Hi Tubaloth... Can I make one correction....concerning the Outer Darkness... It is the final state of them who cannot be renewed unto repentance...It is reserved for the children of the kingdom. And it is also mentioned in Jude... Matthew 8:12 - But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Jude 1:13 - Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever. Luke 10:18 - And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. The outer darkness is where the Light of Christ is not. We are all children of the Light. The very worst thing that can happen to one of these is to be cast off to where they cannot have access to the Light of Christ. if you remember David did receive this promise from God after he had Uriah killed. Psalms 16:10 - For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. Psalms 16:11 - Thou wilt shew me the path of life: in thy presence is fulness of joy; at thy right hand there are pleasures for evermore. Not all Murderers can be renewed unto repentance........ Peace be unto you bert10

Hi Skalenfehl. I have a different interpretation....on The words of the Lord concerning the Elects... "If it were possible. - They shall deceive the very elect." It is not possible to deceive the very Elect.....The Lord is using this term to how how much the world is deceived. We are living the times described by the prophets...were men shall call good evil and evil good. - Where only a few shall have not have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant. If I were to deliver the full truth on this ....they would ban me from this board. Isaiah 24:5 - The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant. They who have the Love of Christ within are the Elect of GOD and these will not allow anything from this world nor from the Spirit world to separate them from the Love of Christ. ----------------------------------------------------- Romans 8:35 - Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? Romans 8:36 - As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. Romans 8:37 - Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. Romans 8:38 - For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Romans 8:39 - Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. As for long lives...the promises are for everyone....just as the grave. Romans 6:23 - For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. [[This promise of Eternal life can be received in the flesh...ie Elijah, Enoch etc.]] One of the blessings of God is having our days lengthtened: Exodus 20:12 - Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee. Proverbs 3:1 - MY son, forget not my law; but let thine heart keep my commandments: Proverbs 3:2 - For length of days, and long life, and peace, shall they add to thee. Each man is given an set time on the earth. This time can be lengthtened or shortened by our thoughts, actions and words. In the Odes of Solomon...if we become United with God in our lifetime we shall become immortal at the time it occurs. One does not need to go to the grave in order to receive the promises of Eternal Life. The fullness of the Gospel of Christ is about overcoming the world and the fall. - To be redeemed to our former state. Peace be unto you bert10