NeuroTypical

Nope. My wife will always be the boss.LM

My claim to LDS apologetics fame: I once spanked Voigt and Chris Cain (the screen writer) on the nationally-syndicated Hugh Hewitt AM radio talk show. I was on hold listening to the show for almost an hour, and was almost brought to tears by the powerfully moving patriotism coming from the interview with Voigt. It's an interesting feeling, calling someone to the mat publicly while at the same time feeling strong respect for a different aspect of the man. LM

I missed that, Ray. Good on ya then!

Hi Jason! Glad to see another repentant sinner on the board.

Those two examples are worthy of bringing to the bishopric's attention. You took appropriate action. And here is where you're tempted to grab some stewardship that isn't yours. Unless you get called to the YM program in some capacity, let that part of it go. If you hear more, then talk to the Bishop directly. Oh yeah. I was exec sec in the Bishopric for 5 years. Stuff like this comes up all the time. It really does. Interesting matters I watched the brethren grapple with:* Bro so-and-so seems a bit too 'huggy' at the mutual activities. * Varsity coach whatsisface gets waay too physical in an altercation between two boys, siding with his son, and almost gets himself arrested. * Folks getting all upset and offended over someone and threatening to pull their kids from activities (or church entirely), unless the bishopric does [insert armchair quarterbacking here]. Some of the offenses are very understandable, some appear to be big overreactions from hypersensitive mommies and daddies. How is this best handled? By letting the Bishopric do it's job. They do discuss such things, and prayerfully consider these matters, inviting the spirit to influence them as they search for the right decisions. Sometimes, the spirit seems to overrule common sense, and nobody quite understands why for a while, then it works out. You have stewardship over your kids. If they understand racists and bigots exist and are not swayed by encountering one trying to be funny, then kudos to you, dad. You're raising good boys. Part of kids growing up, is learning how to deal with various kinds of unsavory characters. LM

We all pick avatars on this board, and follow the guidelines. There could be guidelines for the digital license plate idea too. With the avalanche of customized designs of existing plates available now, I'm sure there are already guidelines.

Actually, you just can't in your ward. I've been doing it for years.

I think I see your problem. I haven't walked into either in a decade, and I'm perfectly happy.LM (Gets his stuff to hang on the wall free or almost free from lds.org)

So, ok, but what does an anarchist society do with its anarchist members who wish to visit unspeakable acts of horror on other members of the anarchist society? Because these people exist in every society, you know...Anarchism allows a common law of respect for others. What do you do with the people who break that law, and how do you do it to them? LM

I don't see this nearly as intuitively as Onhech.People take duties upon themselves, for reasons good or bad. Sometimes for selfish reasons. I have duties at work, so I can make money. There's nothing inherent to Duty that places it higher than reward on any scale I can think of. Love is an emotion, and emotions are tricksy and sometimes false. Sometimes relevant, sometimes irrelevant. Love is not a constant, whereas duty is. There's nothing to basic fallable error-prone emotional love that places it higher than anything else. Jails are full of bad guys with mommies who love them and would gladly do anything, legal or illegal, to get their poor helpless babies away from the bad jail people. Divorced people occasionally have bitter lists of the dumb things they chose to do for love. I don't see anything wrong in working for one's own 'enlightened self-interest' (that's the term a professor at BYU assigned it). If God wants what is best for me, why am I supposed to suddenly feel guilty for wanting what's best for me? I strongly reject that statement. We're fallible, agenda-driven, blinder-wearing, error-prone humans. There's nothing about strong emotion that makes us perfect. This sort of nonsense is what drives people away from the church when they take a look at the distance between themselves and perfection. The attraction of the gospel, is that through the atonement of Christ, ALL mankind may be saved. Even us sinners just doing the best we can and repenting when we fall short, which we all will, no matter how much we love Christ. Even people with addictions and bad character traits and permanent wounds. All that said, that missionary was a jerk, and his reaction was not helpful, destructive, and innapropriate. But there's nothing wrong with shooting for exhaltation because exhaltation rocks. Or in other words, why put up with so much being last if you're not that hot on being first? LM

So, doesn't that mean that you DO see the need to force someone to stay within the bounds of a law that IS protecting someone? Isn't that forcing someone to see the world a particular way?Sorry if this sounds argumentative. In another situation, it probably would be. But I just got back from attending a parole hearing for a guy doing a life sentence for aggravated sexual abuse of a minor. Went through a lot of big solid doors guarded by people who have dealt out a lot of force while doing their jobs. The subject is therefore much on my mind. Dood was told he will not be up for another hearing until he at least begins a therapy program they have at the prison. In effect, his release is contingent upon his ability to convince a parole board that his view of the world has changed in ways they want it to change. I'm of the opinion that forcing such a change is just peachy, as we're talking about someone at high risk of molesting another kid if such a change doesn't happen. Thoughts? LM

Hey Foust, I noticed you over at nauvoo.com hawking your product there too. Please be aware of LDS.NET's site rule #13: I see you've actually created a thread here, and made posts in old threads here and here to sell your wares. Individually, these posts sound innocent enough. Taken together, it's obvious why you're here. The non-commercial-website-related post on the very old shotgun thread was a good touch, but it's still obvious why you're here - and you're violating site rules.

So, the veiled threats are ok, but the sin of using all caps is what's disturbing you? Kind of whacked-out priorities there, don't you think?Anyway, to answer your question, your ascii art could easily be interpreted as something pornographic. Imagine for a minute, someone posting some ascii art of a naked person and telling you it's a picture of Jesus. Or how about a tasteless way of calling Joseph Smith a pedophile? You might be a bit miffed. You might do the online version of shouting and showing anger. I'd like to say that most Christians would not make veiled threats, and none of them would try to make good on their threats. But I'm sure some might. However, I am of the opinion that there are a far greater number of Muslims in the world who would consider or try violence than Christians for such an offense. Like a big hefty order of magnitude greater. LM

Navigating the seemingly paradoxical waters of "stay away from bad people" and "bring the gospel to bad people" can be a bumpy ride, but is an exciting journey well worth the price of admission.(At least it is so far for us.)

This may be sort of a tangent, but I've interacted with evangelicals in the following ways: * Local Mega-church would not allow me to apply for a job with them, because I could not sign their 'statement of beliefs'. The statement consisted of 8 or 9 things I agreed with, and two I did not (infallible final bible, official belief in trinity) * Homeschool co-op run by Nazarene church: Sort of set up by believers for believers, but their policy was to allow any "christian" to participate. You had to sign something agreeing that your kids would probably be taught certain viewpoints. System involved every parent participating in some way, parent had to sign a statement of belief if their volunteer work involved teaching. Same beef as above - agreed with 8 or 9 things, but disagreed with biblical infalibility/finality, and official trinitarian belief. So my wife did office work and other such things. Very positive experience - one or two interesting moments as someone found out we were LDS. * Homeschool co-op run by "High-country Christian Home Educators". Met in a mega-church, issued a statement of beliefs very similar to my first two examples. Required no agreement to this statement from anyone, required everyone to sign something stating "If I teach, I won't teach anything contrary to that statement. If my kids are being taught, they'll most likely be exposed to stuff out of the statement of beliefs." Very positive experience, continuing for it's 4th sememster soon. My wife has buddied up with the organization's only Hacidic Jew, and a few other 'wildcards', and everyone gets along with everyone else. LM

We have lots of conversations with our kids on exactly this topic. The world is full of people with different opinions about things - but that doesn't make them bad guys. It's interesting to watch - our kids play with the neighbor kids who are Catholic. They've had an amazing amount of deep theological and political issues discussed, for being under 10 yrs old. For example, they've grappled with whether dogs go to heaven, what to do and wear on Sunday, and whether it's a sin to go to disneyworld because they support "gay days". We love to play the 'good guy/bad guy' game with movies we watch. For example, most of the kids in "diary of a wimpy kid" had some problem like being selfish or rude, or just plain being jerks, but the only real bad guys in that movie were the older kids in the truck. Everyone else was just a kid doing kid stuff, which sometimes is hurtful and horrible, but it didn't make them bad. LM

This is the easiest thing in the world. You can't marry her unless she rejects her father's 'vision', and if she won't reject her father's vision, you shouldn't be marrying her anyway, unless you want him as a stepfather, which you don't. And for pete's sake, if she can't do it on her own, you shouldn't be marrying her anyway. I know a whole lot of infatuation and yearning and emotion confuses the issue for you, but really, it is as simple as that. LM

I see you asking for feedback, but not exactly sure what subject you want feedback on. Could you clarify a little? Welcome to the forum.

Ahh, fun times. So much of your post reminds me of me and my wife a decade ago. That sentence doesn't make any sense. If you are trying to find a babysitter, what business is it of the RS Pres? Or are you meaning to say something like "We're asking the RS Pres to assign someone who will watch our kids for free so I can go do other things"? If that's the case, I can understand the RS Pres's response a bit better. And it's pretty much correct - ward members really aren't there to give you free babysitting, any more than you're there to give them free babysitting. Or, to put it differently, what would you say if the RS President came to you and said "Hi brother! I know you are home with your kid most days - will you be willing to take Sister X's kid 3 days a week for a couple of months until she finds a job?" If you're unable to pay for babysitting while you are looking for work, you might consider asking the Bishop for some financial aid. Go tell him what you're telling us, and I bet he could probably help in some way. You wouldn't be handed money or a babysitter, you'd be given a way to earn what you needed, so you'll have time to look for work. LM

Oh great. Now I'll have the parody Psycho Chicken running through my head the entire day. And now I'll have to come up with some witty rejoinder about your avatar.

Interesting timing on this thread. We're currently in another state, attending the parole hearing of BIL. We're sitting on the victim's side of the aisle - i.e. the side opposite all my wife's family. Probably not many people might be able to think of this as a good thing, but the song running through our heads are Pink's "So What?"

I've collected two or three stories about people lying to get a TR. None of them advocate it, but all of them did it.One lady (a poster on an 'lds vs. critics' board) was pretty forthright about her plans. She did not believe in the truth claims of the church, but was active and had lied to obtain a TR. She was planning on continuing to lie to keep it, so she could see her daughter get sealed. LM

Perhaps he would have had better luck attacking a former president Bush's drug use instead? LM

They'll live their lives and be judged according to the law they've been given and the contents of their heart.Just like the rest of us. LM

Let me help translate for you choseph. You see all the lds posters here basically bursting out in raucous laughter at your post? It means don't sweat it. My buddy went to Germany on a youth ambassador program. He liked the non-alcoholic beer so much, he had like 4 or 5 big steins worth. It turns out that in Germany, the non-alcoholic beer has about the same alcohol content in it as normal beer you can buy in the US. So he had about a six-pack and a half of beer that night. He somehow still managed to go on a mission and get married in the temple. God doesn't send people to hell for being ignorant. You have to actually choose to do something. LM