NeuroTypical

So, who is your audience? New members? Investigators who are Christians? Investigators who don't know much about the history of Christianity? A bunch of seasoned members who already know this stuff? Chapter 16 is an interesting lesson. That little paragraph on the apostacy is the closest thing this church has to an official "why christianity is wrong and we're right" lesson. There are different ways to handle it that will edify different audiences in different ways. I once went to a couple of "why mormons aren't Christian" classes offered by our local MegaChurch. I wouldn't suggest you do anything like they did. LM

I keep asking my wife to get a do like Madame Hooch, but she resists. I can't imagine why.

Exactly where is this purpose stated? Again, Ouija is a game mass-marketed by Hasbro. If you go to the Hasbro website and look up the Ouija playing instructions, you'll see no mention of spirits. The main game website only says "How it works has been a mystery for over 30 years!"There have been 21 trademarks taken on the name "Ouija". Here are the last six: (16) "Psychic Instrument" (patent no.1,476,158; 4 December 1923: Grover C. Haffner) (17) "Game" (patent no.1,514,260; 4 November 1924: Alfred A. Rees) (18) "Amusement Device" (patent no.1,870,677; 9 August 1932: William A. Fuld) (19) "Amusement Device" (patent no.2,220,455; 5 November 1940: John P. McCarthy) (20) "Finger Pressure Actuated Message Interpreting Amusement Device" (patent no.2,511,377; 13 June 1950: Raymond S. Richmond) (21) "Message Device With Freely Swingable Pointer" (patent no.3,306,617; 28 February 1967: Thomas W. Gillespie) "Stated purpose is communication with the dead" indeed. "purpose of it is to speak to spirits directly" indeed. It's sounding more and more like you people have fallen for the same sort of marketing play that created our modern concept of Santa Claus. One presents a jolly red-faced man to get you to buy Coke, the other presents an aura of mysteriosness and naughtitude to do... Well, Hordak nailed it, except it kept me entertained at age 12 too. C'mon, folks. This is sort of like calling people witches, isn't it? I mean, in this case, the 'witches' in question are sort of encouraging the drama because it helps them sell things and make a profit, but dang - you wanna talk about truth, and then proceed to place this thing on a pedestal it hasn't really claimed for itself for 50 years?

Well, yeah, I guess. Ouija boards are squares of cardboard mass produced by the Hasbro company. They're available at Toys-R-Us. From where I'm standing, the only thing that legitimately works about them, is when people bring their own conformation bias to the table. They're about as much a "tool of lies" as professional wrestling, a politician's campaign promise, or a scary movie about demons. For that matter, they're about as much a "tool of lies" as dowsing and divination rods that Joseph Smith used to dink around with early on in his life.I like this skeptic's take on the issue: "The fact that a person takes a "communication" seriously enough to have it significantly interfere with the enjoyment of life might be a sufficient reason for avoiding the Ouija board, but it is hardly a sufficient reason for concluding that the messages issue from anything but our own minds." I guess there's a good question: If Ouija boards are a tool of lies, then what are the scary movies about the occult or demons or zombies? How about playing Dungeons and Dragons? How about telling ghost stories for the purpose of scaring the willies out of people? Seems to me that consistency demands you either give all of these things supernatural creedence, or none of them. From what I can tell, LDS culture has two opposing viewpoints in it. Skeptics like me who figure that although Satan and his minions exist, 99.9% of the crap you hear about supernatural manefestations, can be explained via conformation bias, our ability to confuse emotions with spirits, and the subconscious mind. The other viewpoint is that a high percentage of the crap you hear about supernatural manefestations, are genuine. I'll stick with the skeptic position for now. Got no problem with folks who hold the other position. I'm just not convinced. LM

It's been a while since my high school astronomy class, but:* Doesn't "radiation" travel at the speed of light? * Doesn't it take about 8 minutes for light to get from the sun to the earth? * Doesn't the stuff we use to look at the sun sit on a mountain, or in earth orbit? (Meaning, by the time we see it, it's happening?) * If we have a measuring device closer to the sun than earth orbit, doesn't the stuff it tells us also travel at the speed of light? (Meaning, by the time we get the notice, whatever the sun shot at us is here?) So, what's the link to this 'report'? I'm thinking I'll be able to read it tomorrow at lunch. LM

Interesting. A church resource mentions "we have been counseled", but fails to provide a footnote or a link. And the church website doesn't show any such counsel either. So again - does anyone have specific information about specific counsel given? Just trying to track it down. It wouldn't be the first time cultural legend has made it to the level of prophecy or doctrine in people's minds...

Hi extra_mile, Let me give you a very straight answer. We are not trinitarians. We do not believe God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost are the same person. We do not believe in whatever creed that guy came up with that kicked the whole "3 in 1" idea into popular Christian thought. We do believe in God the Father, His Son Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost. We believe they are three different personages. We believe that if you ever happen to shake hands with Jesus, you will not have shaken hands with His Father. That ticks off a lot of Christians, to the extent that they wish to deny us the title. Something else that ticks them off, is that we believe that the Bible is litterally telling the open direct truth, when it says we're sons and daughters of God. We believe that children grow up. So, if sons and daughters of zebras grow up to be zebras, and acorns grow up to be mighty oak trees, and sons and daughters of birds grow up to be birds, then sons and daughters of God grow up to be [insert logical answer here]. (We do believe that God will ALWAYS be our God, and Christ will ALWAYS be our Savior, but yeah, when Christ says in the Bible that He will inherit everything His Father hath, and we are joint-heirs with Him, we believe it.) The ramifications of believing what the Bible says in that way, ticks off a bunch of christians too. LM

I don't know that at all. Certainly nobody has ever told me that (at least nobody with any authority). Who told you, and exactly what did they say?I sure would hate to have to give up singing Banana Man with my kids, because it talks about playing spirit games and whatnot... LM

Well, sort of. When a Bishop hears something about abuse, there is a confidential 800 number he must call, where he can speak to the church's legal representatives about what the law says. States have different laws on the matter, and there are federal laws in place as well. Some laws protect the confidentiality of the confessional, some laws are intended to protect victims of abuse and catch bad guys. Bishops will follow whatever law is binding on them, in a way that best helps the person sitting in front of him.

I remember reading that book in middle school, and being disgusted at the wife and her friends. How they reveled in what they were told to revel in. How they fought hard against the idea that thinking and learning is a good thing. How the one lady, at being emotionally moved by the beauty of a poem, reacted with fear and negativity to her own reaction, using it as proof that books were bad. Then I went out into the world and met a whole bunch of people who are really like that in real life. It had a huge impact on my formative years.

About the only article I can find about it. I know a few things about child sexual predators. I know that often, death is the only way they find release from their horrible urges. From that standpoint, I pray Lee has finally found peace and health. The atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ is available to all who reach out for it - I pray Lee did and does. I pray his victim (or possible victims) are healthy and happy, and are enjoying the blessings afforded by forgiving someone who has committed such a horrible crime. LM

So, let me offer a rather strong response.Of all the agency-denying immaturity-worshiping innapropriate-blame-assigning garbage I've ever heard, this one takes the cake. So what, nobody is responsible for their own maturity? If you can stick quotes around "good members", it somehow makes you a helpless slave, forced to do what they're doing? If you notice yourself struggling with something you see, the sole blame rests upon person you're looking at? If you notice yourself 'feeling less than' when standing next to someone with more, the problem rests with them and not you? I mean yes, people's actions influence other people. But all those quotes above seem to indicate that people are somehow forced into inappropriate action by others. There's no mention of personal responsibility. Yeah, feelings can be caused by others. But what you do with the feelings is up to you. Nobody "made" this string of people follow in each other's footsteps - they chose to do it. Nobody tied them to a table and forced surgery on them. The fault/blame/consequences rest with the people making the choices - not the people influencing the choices. I mean, I'm sorry your ward is full of grown ups with teenager maturity levels, but such a situation is hardly unique - and hardly limited to the subject of implants. A more commonly talked about issue is living outside of our means to appear as affluent as our neighbors. Similar issue. If I live in a neighborhood full of opulence, it's still my decision about the stuff I buy. This really does seem to be a big case of ducking responsibility here. It doesn't matter how plastic and artificial the people around you are - you are responsible for how you react to them. Yeah, so you pick up a phone and make an appointment with a surgeon and go to the doc appointments and pick out your new look and write the checks and show up for the surgery. It's someone's fault that this happened - but news flash: it's not the fault of the people surrounding this person. Peer pressure stinks. You have to be mature to not let it get to you. The solution isn't to harp on the immature people and demand they stop being immature. The solution is individual responsibility - you worry about your maturity. LM

Well, first and foremost, Woo-Hoo! Good choice! I've done similar things over the years, and can speak to the blessings it brings when we struggle to be better today than you were yesterday.We rarely use the TV too. Yep - AFV is one of our favorites. We also get Netflix movies and enjoy all sorts of kid stuff, educational things, Avatar: The Last Airbender, old Munsters shows, etc.

There is no such thing. It doesn't exist. Not just about mormons, or religion in general, but it doesn't exist anywhere. Every thinking being has a bias. God has a bias. People who think they know God have biases. Scientists conducting experiments have biases. Scientists might try harder than everyone else to eliminate or transparently state their biases, but they still have them.Anything, written by anyone, ever, is an attempt to pull readers in a certain direction. That goes for scripture, critical works, scientific journals, math texts, and football play-by-plays. There are zero exceptions. The best you can do, is figure out what your own bias is, and the bias of whoever you're reading, and triangulate.

Got verse?

Oh, Gadianton robbers are alive and well in our youth drug culture. They aren't just targeting kids, they are our kids. My wife used to be plugged in to that scene, as one of the few 'trusted outsiders'. That was over a decade ago in Utah. And it came to pass that they did have their signs, yea, their secret signs, and their secret words; and this that they might distinguish a brother who had entered into the covenant, that whatsoever wickedness his brother should do he should not be injured by his brother, nor by those who did belong to his band, who had taken this covenant. A few months ago, she had an opportunity to help one kid leave that scene. It was amazing - 14 years and 600 miles away from her prior experience, and it only took a week or two before she was plugged back in. The signs and words and "rules" were all pretty much the same. It turns out three families in our ward and a couple of families in another ward all had kids in this culture. The problem is no more or less prevalent where we live than where any of you do. Here's a related thread about secret combinations from a while back. LM

If all that was left on planet earth, was a bunch of people who were not married, but were sharing the same bed, there would be children 9 months later. It's a fact of human behavior. LM

Sounds like the beginnings of wisdom here - a good place to start. I can elaborate on that subject. The same stuff Matthew talks about, was dawning on me a decade ago. Pained realization that the world is a dangerous place, that random home invasions and dangers from violent gang initiations exist. That a certain percentage of just about any population consists of people who can and do prey on the rest of the population. That some of them are my in-laws, and I helped put one behind bars. Since we live in the US, most of the bad guys have guns. So there I am, with a bride and eventually two daughters. Another pained realization - if my main efforts revolve around stopping a violent assault, there's a pretty widely accepted method for doing so. Deterrence, avoidance, evasion - all have their place, but if they fail, the most efficient and useful way involves skillful employment of deadly force - i.e. shooting the bad guy until the assault stops. (Goes hand in hand with the co-realization that shooting people makes them dead.) I don't ever want to kill anybody. I consider what I do as learning 99 ways to run the heck away, and 1 way to take someone down when I can't run away. Yes indeed, at various points in my preparations for that 1 time, I have indeed, taken to my knees and prayed, using real words, that I will never have to use these tools or skills that I'm gaining. I will consider my life a success if I can spend my whole life without ever firing a shot at anyone. But I prepare to do so, because I acknowledge the possibility that I might need to some day. I would be all over philately, cosplay or cryptozoology like flies on butter, if I had a guarantee that by doing so, I'd be ensuring my family's safety. But when dood needs his next fix, and he thinks my wallet might be fat, and he sort of likes my daughter too, well, my philately skills won't do me much good.

I saw a few of these commercials here in Colorado Springs in the Jiffy Lube. I had to chuckle with my daughters and said something like "So what, we're supposed to act like normal people now? Better shave off those horns and shed a few excess wives!" I think that's sort of the point of these commercials. So many people think there's just something fundamentally bizzare or horrible about us, but don't know what, and don't know how to ask. A little light-hearted self-effacing humor goes a long way helping feel comfortable interacting with one of us. LM

We're talking about the Disnefied movie Pocahontas, right? The one where the Native Americans didn't keep slaves, where the bloody wars were only to "defend our lands", and where Pocahontas didn't immerse herself in European culture and try to emulate it in her own life?

Think for a moment - your mom made all those mistakes, and you are now who you are, and thinking maybe life would be better without one of those horrible man things. Your mindset is perfectly understandable, but consider: The choices you make in this regard, will also help shape and form your daughter's outlook on things. What do you want her to think about men? If you want her to have a positive male role model - then get a good husband that will be one for her.Here's my two cents on the other choice - if you don't give her any good male role models, she has increased chances of picking a life similar to your mother's. You didn't say what sort of upbringing your mother had - what was her father like? LM

I think Mahone as figured out the problem, and TrueGrits and HoosierGuy have the only effective solution. Yeah, I basically shared primary caregiver duties with my dad, as my mom took her decade-long trip through the valley of Multiple Sclerosis. I didn't bother to date until after her death. After looking at the 1988 version of the information available in that link, there just wasn't any other feasable option.

So, I see a lot of anecdote-tossing, and I see some blanket assertions being tossed around, and I see some personal opinions expressed. And various people talking about bias in general. But nobody has tried to answer the question in anything resembling a persuasive way. So yeah, fox leans right, and all the other mainstream places lean left. I'm asking you - do you think fox leans further right than cnn or major network media leans left? Actually, I'm asking for more than your thoughts on the matter, I want to know why you think that. What is your basis for such a belief? Anyone? LM

Probably your best bet is to buddy up to someone who knows such things and learn from him. But if there's nobody around: For personal protection, I'd recommend a basic handgun class and a basic handgun personal protection class, before you chose something to buy. Different personalities, styles, hand sizes, etc come in to play when you're choosing a handgun - finding out what you want before you choose something is advisable. The NRA will probably have something available in your area. What state do you live in? It's very necessary to find out what your state and local laws say about defending yourself and others. Does your state follow castle doctrine, or will you go to jail for 20 years if you shoot an armed home invader? Do you intend to carry? Lots of things to figure out before you actually buy something. Also, it's important to have a very clear understanding of what 'personal protection' means. It means the ability and willingness to take a human life if necessary, and learning to recognize when it's necessary. This is no small thing. We are Christlike peaceful people. We renounce war and proclaim peace. We turn the other cheek, pray for those who spitefully use and hurt us, forgive everyone, and love our neighbors. Do you have a clear understanding on how you can do all those things, and still put two in the chest and one in the head of someone coming at you or a loved one with a knife? Until you do, you might be better served by a karate class or a tazer. For hunting rifles, I'd definitely find a way to go hunting a few times with someone knowledgeable. (I've only been one time myself, lots to learn there.) LM (no clue about bows and arrows - sounds fun though!)

Absolutely! (especially FoxNews) es·pe·cial·ly   /ɪˈspɛʃəli/ [ih-spesh-uh-lee] –adverb particularly; exceptionally; markedly: Be especially watchful. So, to start out, I'm fully in agreement with crazypotato's take on things. But who out there is willing to defend kimiko's claim, that FoxNews is particularly or more deserving of crazypotato's suggestion? Is FoxNews more biased than, oh, say, CNN, or MSNBC? Or moveon.org? LM