NeuroTypical

Three or four years ago, after paying the umpteenth late charge at checkout, I finally stormed out of their dumb store and destroyed my membership card. I remember hoping their horrible "make money through late fees" policy would reap what it was sowing - eihter change, or bankruptcy due to unhappy customers going elsewhere in droves. I switched to Netflix, and they made me feel all warm and fuzzy inside. Then I switched to blockbuster online, because they were a few bucks cheaper a month. After umpteen bad experiences with customer service who figured my unhappiness was my own fault, I quit their stupid online thing too. Netflix welcomed me back with open arms and a cookie, holding me as I wept over the jagged end to my embarassing relationship with their competitor. Good riddance to blockbuster. They made me feel bad about myself - and I deserved better than that. Netflix loves me, and my kids can watch their movies via mail, on any computer, and even on our WII - as many as we want - whenever or wherever we want - with no late fees ever - for ten bucks a month. LM (never toy with my movie renting feelings)

Back in the fiesty good ol' days of Frontier America, you could find lots of Mormons who were convinced this referred to the Catholic church. Those days are pretty much over now, and nowadays, just about all of the LDS folks believe the abominable church is a reference to worldly secularness, that worships stuff, and being glorified by other people, and power and whatnot. It's a symbol of apostacy - a representation of all false doctrine - anything that weakens faith, desires worldly sin or gain, and seeks worldly praise. (Although you can still find the occasional Mormon who figures it's the Catholics.)

This is a great study. A few thoughts: * It makes sense that athiests and agnostics know the most, because the vacuum left by not allowing God, gets filled with reverence for the human ability to think and reason. So they tend to value education more, and they probably spend more time thinking about religion. * I learned about world religions via an institute class, and a University of Utah college class - both called "world religions". (The college class skipped Christianity, of course.) I'm trying to find a way to blame this on liberals, but time is short and my brain is foggy right now. It'll probably come to me soon. LM

In addition to the advice everyone else is giving you, I'd add something else. Something is broken in your ability to pick the right guy. You knew who he was before you married him, and yet you married him and made a kid with him anyway. And you have kids from before him? So, how come you pick the wrong guys? Sounds like you have the right desire - but I'm worried you'll fall for yet another Mr. Wrong and end up pulling your kids through yet another horrible experience.Figure out why you do this, and how to fix it. Your kids need more from you than to get their hopes up just to have them destroyed again. LM

Douglas Adams. Emo Phillips. Stephen Banks.

I didn't have kids until I was 30. If there were churchfolk looking down their nose at me, I didn't notice. Short answer - you can find judgemental busybodies everywhere - even in the LDS faith. If you encounter one, just love them like God commands, and move on. LM

Great topic! "All is well" (Last verse - 'and should I die, before my journey's through...') "Nearer, my God, to Thee" (good pick for the little band on the Titanic to pick as their last song) "Cat's in the Cradle" (unless it's done by Donkey from Shrek)

Sure - take it one day at a time. You are in emotional pain, and emotional pain goes away over time. Keep with your plans to go on a mission.She's right - the two of you will be different people in 2 years. Maybe you'll be 2 people who might have a chance at something. But you won't know here in September 2010.

I must wonder about the story behind such a comment. Marriage leads to contentment, therefore having more spouses means more contentment?Not in my reality...

I don't understand the reasoning behind the question. Why would you tell people? Do you have close relationships with them, and both of you share important details of your lives? Do you want to tell someone you think they're wrong? Do you want to now defend the faith with people who will argue with you? What do you want to accomplish? If you answer that, you'll probably have your answer on who to tell and who not to tell.

I'm thinking you've absorbed some low-quality anti-mormon material written more than a few decades ago. As others have mentioned, salvation is obtained through the redeeming atonement of Jesus Christ. We're saved by accepting Him as our savior. We do not believe in the trinity. We believe in a Godhead - meaning three separate personages. I've never heard anything in my three decades of church attendance that ever suggested anything about Christ having wives or children. I've heard members speculate, but that's it. It's not taught.As for God the Father, the only thing in our doctrine about a heavenly mother, is that it makes sense to believe we have one. Any other details are assumptions and speculation. We believe all of that talk in the Bible of us being sons and daughters of God isn't symbolic, it literal. We are sons and daughters of God. Inheritors of a divine birthright. If we accept Christ as our savior, we'll become joint heirs with Him, and He will accept everything God hath. That's what the Bible says, and we believe it. LM

Ok, let's do a little experiment. Let's say someone was born with a bone abnormality in their left leg. Through childhood things were ok, but as that teenage growth spurt started happening, problems started showing up. The leg bone wasn't growing like it should - muscles had a hard time attaching to it - that leg is weaker and more prone to injury than the other - and it's interfering with this person's ability to do all the running and moving around and even sitting at a table. If the doctors x-rayed it, they could probably diagnose the problem and a good treatment. This person is very sad they can't move around like they want to. Now, what would you tell that person? Would you tell them to just snap out of it? That taking medication would mean they've failed? Would you tell them it's something physiological they they should just overcome? Would you tell them they just need to read their scriptures? It sounds goofy, right? Well, human brains can have similar issues. Sometimes the chemicals are off-balance and the brain doesn't function correctly. Now, I'm not a doctor. But when someone shares a story like you are, about how things that shouldn't be a problem are a problem, well, it's not too difficult to see what ought to happen. If you have some sort of biochemical issue going on in your brain, it's just about as much your fault, as that guy's leg is his fault. See, it's not about fault, it's about how the body part in question functions, and how to get it functioning better. Here is where the church stands on the subject: Myths about Mental Illness - By Elder Alexander B. Morrison Of the Seventy Ensign » 2005 » October Please, for the love of pete, read it. There is no shame in having a leg that brings burdens and problems - that person should do what they can to treat the problem and make life better. There should also be no shame in having a brain that brings burdens - you should do what you can to treat the problem and make life better. If you're in an area where there's an LDS Social Services, that would be a wonderful place to start. If not, a good Psychiatrist or Psycologist can help you learn what you need to do to handle things. Heck even a Licensed Clinical Social Worker is a good place to start, even though they can't prescribe much. My wife has a brain that functions differently than it should. She tells me the medication she takes makes it feel like the playing field has been leveled - that she no longer feels like she's wading uphill through ankle-deep mud just to get up in the morning. Again, I'm not a doctor, but denying yourself a doctor just seems like a bad move to me. LM

Since you post on the advice board, and your here asking for advice, here's my advice:I would suggest that above your goal of going on a mission, your goal should be a close relationship with God. It looks like you want to impress the judgemental people in your life, so you're going to cheat yourself of the blessings that come from confessing to the Bishop, because it might delay your mission, and everyone will know there's still a problem. If that's the case, you're out to impress humans by denying yourself the atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ. True repentance means you submit yourself to God, and if He no longer has a mission in mind for you, then you accept that, and move on to what He does have in mind for you. Sounds rough. I can understand if you refuse to go through with it, and head off on your mission having decided that this unilateral 'compromise' is as far as you will go. But at least be honest with yourself about what you're doing. Whatever you decide, good luck and God bless. LM

Ok. I started out disagreeing, and I continue to disagree, despite reading all your posts. From where I'm standing, the goal is to win the game. Sounds like you haven't budged an inch yourself. Oh well - maybe next time. I'd love to continue the discussion about using firearms in defense. Perhaps you or someone else could start a new thread if there's interest. LM

His epitaph reminds me of a short story by Rudyard Kipling, that ends thus: It's almost like someone's saying that a person's true worth isn't always recognized in official ways.

You'll have to cite some of that "large amount of evidence" for me. A quick internet search tells me things like 35,000 people die in crashes each year, and maybe 17,000 of them weren't wearing seat belts. Seventeen thousand is far short of your millions.I call on you to cite your source for the claim "millions of people are being hurt and killed who do not wear seatbelts" Anyway, it's true that an American has about a 1 in 77 chance of dying in any sort of transportation accident. But it's also true that an American has about a 1 in 315 chance of dying by assault with a firearm. Less likely, but still a real risk. So, my 6 yr old daughter is taking Tae Kwon Do lessons. Is it your position that I'm making her more violent? If so, call for sources. I think we agree that violent crime has a lot of contributing factors. But I'm pretty sure my analogy fits. There's a risk of dying in a car crash, and there's a risk of being a victim of a violent crime. We try to mitigate risks of harm in cars with seatbelts, and some of us try to mitigate risks of harm by assault via various defensive arts, be they physical or tool-related. So, when you come along demanding to know if someone's husband is "constantly fighting off people", it's a valid comeback to ask if you believe people who wear seatbelts are "constantly getting into crashes".You seem resistant to absorb it, but yes indeed, there is truly a difference between preparing for a possibility, and expecting an inevitability. I just want to make sure I'm hearing you correctly. Are you saying that being involved in defensive arts isn't a problem, but watching them is?Anyway, we should include President Benson in the discussion, because again, he felt it necessary to include the notion in his book. Here's the complete quote (bolding mine): Also relevant is Doctrine and Covenants 134:11: "...we believe that all men are justified in defending themselves, their friends, and property, and the government, from the unlawful assaults and encroachments of all persons in times of exigency, where immediate appeal cannot be made to the laws, and relief afforded." LM

Indeed. It's not an "I trust you or don't trust you" issue. It's a "The world has bad people in it who will try to make you do things you don't want to, and they have lots of tools in their bags" issue. My wife and I have been talking about this stuff with my 9 and 6 yr olds for years. It's easier if you start younger.

If I get to heaven and find out that the earth really is billions of years old, and species do evolve, I think I'll be so mad, that I'll refuse entry into the kingdom. Especially if that evil crackpot Darwin is there. LM (satire)

I spent about a decade searching out critics and criticisms of my faith. I also heavily ingested the defenses put out there by others. Topic by topic, story by story. I found it an incredibly testimony building exercise. I learned more about my church and what the gospel is by interacting with critics, than through any other exercise. Because it forced me to go to the sources - scripture, words of the prophets, and even the Gospel Principles manual. If you're like me, and you can learn about something by encountering it's opposite, I heartilly recommend it. If you'd like to approach criticisms of the faith by reading our answers, farms.byu.edu is an amazing resource, as is fairlds.org. D&C 71:5-11 Now, behold this is wisdom; whoso readeth, let him understand and receive also; For unto him that receiveth it shall be given more abundantly, even power. Wherefore, confound your enemies; call upon them to meet you both in public and in private; and inasmuch as ye are faithful their shame shall be made manifest. Wherefore, let them bring forth their strong reasons against the Lord. Verily, thus saith the Lord unto you—there is no weapon that is formed against you shall prosper; And if any man lift his voice against you he shall be confounded in mine own due time. 1 Peter 3:15: "But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:" 1 Thessalonians 5:21: "Prove all things; hold fast to which is good." Jude 1:3: "Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints." "Those to whom no problems occur are asleep at the wheel of truth." John A. Widtsoe "Though argument does not create conviction, the lack of it destroys belief. What seems to be proved may not be embraced; but what no one shows the ability to defend is quickly abandoned. Rational argument does not create belief, but it maintains a climate in which belief may flourish." Austin Farrer, "The Christian Apologist," in Light on C. S. Lewis , ed. Jocelyn Gibb (New York: Harcourt and Brace, 1965), 26. LM

I know this was directed at Anatess, but if I may:Pretty much anywhere you go in any city or town anywhere in the world, there exists a percentage of the population that, given the right circumstances, will attempt to do an innocent person harm for a variety of reasons. Some places are safer than others. Some places have more of these folks, some have less. But yes, running into one of these people is indeed a risk of living on planet earth. Ask any cop, LDS or otherwise, about the presence of dangerous people, and the threat to innocent people. Also, there's a difference in preparing for the possibility, and thinking it is a certainty. Do you wear a seatbelt? Let's see how your statements fare: Over 20 years ago after I joined the church, I have never been in a situation where I had to wear a seatbelt. Do you relly think every man should wear a seatbelt because every man will one day get in a crash. Where do you live? Is your husband constantly getting in crashes? Sounds sort of goofy, I know, but hopefully you get the point. Learning to fight does not mean you expect a fight is a certainty. To fully answer your question, I've been a member my whole life, and have only been in one fight. My wife was also born into the church, and she's witnessed fights, beatings, and even a shooting or two. She was living in Sandy, Utah during those times. Our church has a fascinating history of people defending themselves, both physically and with firearms. John Moses Browning, who developed the automatic and semi-auto firearm, was Mormon. If you ever go to Nauvoo, you can see his father's restored gun shop, run as a museum. (Guns produced from that shop bore the label "Holiness to the Lord - Our Preservation.") Joseph Smith once expressed in a letter to a relative, his opinion that any man who wouldn't defend his family is a coward. Brigham Young advocated women owning firearms. Ezra Taft Benson said "There is wisdom ... in being preparing to defend our families". Does any of this help? LM

Welcome to the site. My spidey senses aren't tingling. You're not LDS, not gonna be LDS any time soon, and looking for discussions. Seems pretty upfront to me. Just keep in mind that we're all about explaining what we believe and why - we're not too big on arguing it. If you want to prove we're wrong, you need to seek out other forums that allow debate. But if you're here to understand us a bit more, I'm pretty sure we can accomodate you. Sweet! I find a greater number of LDS folks have pro-gun sentiments than you'd find in most other demographics besides the military. But you can sure find plenty of no-gun sentiments here too. Regardless of what side of the fence you are on, I look forward to discussing things.As for Left Behind, I'm a conniseur of end-times / book of revelation / apocalypse stories. I've only watched the movie, but found it passable and enjoyable. I could appreciate the story of the pastor who found his flock taken up, and there he was with his heart in the wrong place. Good stuff. One clarification, the content of Moroni 10:4 is often ignored, by both mormons and non-mormons alike. The Book of mormon does not say "pray about it and God will answer." Here's the scripture:"Moroni 10:4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost." This promise is that God will manifest the truth of the BoM, via the Holy Ghost, after you: - Recieve these things (A higher bar than just reading, IMO) - ask God (not anyone else) - in the name of Christ (difficult for someone to do who is in a state of unrepentant sin) - if these things are not true (praying to know the truth of the book) - with a sincere heart (where you give room for the possibility that the book is true) - with real intent (because you actually want an answer, not because you want no answer so you can go tell everyone you prayed and didn't hear anything) - having faith in Christ A much higher bar than merely praying. Anyway, I really can suggest following Moroni 10:4 fully as a way to learn of a surety that the BoM is what it claims to be. I did it back in 1996. Now I'm a moderator of an LDS forum if you can believe it. Anyway, welcome. LM

Ok so I know this is off topic, but I have a question about this. What about the people who do all of those things and feel like they have opened the door, yet still feel like they are not feeling the spirit?I disagree strenuously with that top quote. It misses several components of the actual promise. Checkerboy mentioned church, reading, and praying. The scripture mentions receiving, praying in the name of Christ, with a sincere heart, with real intent, and having faith in Christ. That's a much taller order. And that's the true bar someone may need to reach in order to have the promised answer.LM

You're saying it's all "disgusting and can’t watch it because it goes against my LDS values". But the things you specifically identify, are crowd reaction that demonstrate values you don't hold, and a not-always-true assumption that "the purpose is to inflict pain".So, you've been given an example of a fan who isn't reveling in bloodlust when he watches MMA, and some assertions about how in some areas, it really is about winning, demonstrating technique, conditioning, and ability - not inflicting pain. I mean, don't watch it as much as you like - no problem with that. But it sounds like you're labeling all LDS fans of the stuff as going against their LDS values. That seems a tad unrighteous to me. LM

And just to prove that the mods don't march in lockstep: Well, that's argueable, since he did send us to earth where most of us would be guaranteed to suffer these effects at least a little, at some point in their lives. Suffering evil effects of things is sort of a big part of the plan.

Some folks refuse to grapple with the fact that a dead bad guy can't hurt good guys any more. *shrug*