NeuroTypical

I was thinking Living Scriptures. "You want to have the spirit in your home, don't you?"

For those of you who haven't got the faintest clue what this 1st pres letter was about, you're fine. For those of you who do, I'm sure you're not surprised to discover the church is against them. LM

Hi Elder! Welcome to the forum. I remember how cool it was having a cousin being one of the first missionaries in Russia. Now you get to be one of the first missionaries fishing for souls by sitting at a computer. It will be interesting to see how you folks fare. Here's hoping people get baptized because of your efforts. One thing, you didn't start a forum, you started a thread on a forum. One other thing, say what you have to say once only. Saying it more than once is spam, and will get deleted. So, how's life in Santa Rosa? Are you getting much flak for proposition 8? LM

I have not got the faintest clue why God set it up that way. But scripture is pretty clear on the issue - Peter, John the Baptist, Christ, all are pretty clearly on record that repentance and baptism go hand in hand for removing sin from mankind so we can get back into God's presence after death. Some of Christianity ignores the issue, some parts figure that heaven just isn't for everyone, other parts of Christianity get around the physical part with a spiritual interpretation of those scriptures. We Mormons figure they're talking actual physical baptism by immersion, just like Christ had done. LM

Laws are different in every state on this issue. And there is often buzz about changing them, based on whoever is hollering the loudest at the time. I remember in SLC back in the early '90's, one of my coworkers was all excited about a possible new law that would give her the right to see her grandkids against her kid's wishes. No idea wether that law made it through, or has changed since. So, I'm assuming that you're not really getting along well with the in-laws either? Because if they're nice people and it's good for your kids to be around them, then what's the problem? Assuming it's not in the kid's best interest to see the grandparents on your time: If I were you, whenever the subject came up with any of them, this would be the first thing out of my mouth: "Sorry, but it's not like your parents have no access. We got a full schedule when I've got the kids - they'll have to make do with your visitation." LM

If you want to see communism, take a look at the kid's TV show Thomas and Friends. * Centrally planned society. * A revered central leader (Sir Topham Hatt). * The greatest aspiration an engine can have, is to be useful. They live and die by how useful Hatt thinks they are. * Morality and character are only important to the extent that they're recognized by Hatt and the other engines as making useful contributions to the society. * Total, absolute submission to the state and it's goals is revered. Stories about how bad things happen when someone acts in their own self-interests abound. Now, all that said, my kids liked watching it when they were smaller. We have several DVD's and umpteen Thomas train and track accessories. No, they didn't get turned into communists by watching the show. That would be a stupid thing to worry about. LM

Welcome LD! My dad was strongly anti-religion and anti LDS for my whole life. But he was a good man. Joking with him about us mormons was always fun.

Because your scenario where "nobody ever does a proxy baptism for them, ever", does not exist in the LDS sphere of understanding. From what we can tell, yes, everybody who needs one gets a proxy baptism, and nobody goes without. Even the crotchety old antimormon on the corner who manages a deathbed conversion before he croaks, and nobody notices. LM

This whole notion that it's bad to let active imaginations explore good and evil through roleplay, has never made any sense to me. Ever since my kids could walk, we've been taking turns being the bad evil guy chasing the good innocent guy through the house. Here's what it looks like: Me: "I'm gonna eat you - RAAAARGH!" Daughter: "EEEEEEEKKKKK!" [chase ensues through the house, until daughter is cornered in the bathroom or something.] Daughter: "I eet you rarghhh!" Me: "Oh no! A Demon baby! Run!" [chase ensues in the opposite direction until I'm cornered] I can't really tell the difference between that, and roleplaying games where folks pretend out scenes of good and evil, bravery and cowardice, nobility of spirit and debasement of body. As we mature and grow up, the depth and complexity of our personalities and character also mature. We're here on earth to choose between good and evil, having both of them placed before us. It seems like a waste of time to fret about pentagrams and meditating smurfs and +4 rods of beheading and whatnot. I mean yeah, if someone is giving up a real life in favor of a fake one, that's an issue. Not an issue confined to roleplaying games or MMPORG's either. LM

Well, the basic answer, is that God didn't set up the system where basic human error could mess it up. We believe that during Christ's reign on earth after he comes again, everyone who needs the earthly saving ordinances will get them. That includes people we "forgot" to baptize, problems with lost or incorrect records, babies sacrificed on remote islands to pagan gods right before the earthquake killed everyone, or any other situation you can imagine where well-meaning Mormons might not be aware of the need. I've tried hard to find a loophole in this Gospel, a way to game the system, or evidence that God's perfect blend of mercy and justice won't reach everyone somehow. Haven't been able to find it yet. Good question though. LM

Hmmm. Ordinarily, a flurry of melodramatic outraged talking-headdery is a big red flag that there's another side of the story that isn't being told. In my search for the other side, all we see is this short statement from ICE: I'm wondering exactly how sudden and unexpected this news actually is to the Correa family. I'm wondering if it isn't true that they've been told numerous times, starting from the very outset a decade ago, that a visa waiver deal is a temporary thing, and they've refused to pursue other avenues to citizenship. I've worked with a bunch of visa waiver folks over the years - they fell into two categories. The folks who were here temporarily, and the folks who were pursuing other ways to come here permanently and bring their families here. Asylum from Argentina for anti-mormon harassment? I didn't think things were that bad in Argentina. A quick search of "argentina" at LDS.org says there were 277,000 members in 64 stakes there in 1999. There are operating temples in Buenos Aires and Cordoba. Yeah, we should have sympathy and compassion for folks, especially kids who did nothing to deserve such a disruption in their lives. And yeah, surely there is a lot of ways our immigration system needs to be fixed. But in this case, it looks like the total story isn't near as one-sidedly tear-jerking as the media is portraying. LM

Are they different foods? Not everything lasts 25 years. I'm no expert, but I've heard that foods containing fats and oils tend to not last as long. It's one reason why white rice is so popular a storage item, but whole grain brown rice isn't. The brown rice goes rancid after a while.

Yeah, Lena's parents had it tough. The Mom had to give up any notions of justice for her daughter within 24 hours of her daughter's violation. The dad woke up the next day to find his daughter all raped, and his wife off acting as travel guide to the guy who did it, and every good guy in the Land telling him to just shut up about it and not make waves, or else the whole planet would blow up or something. As I said, I learned a lot lot about the nature of despair and hope. I also learned that most of the time, it's pretty much a good thing to not shut up, and make the biggest friggin' wave I can, when in that guy's position.

No. Several church leaders are on record that no, this sort of stuff is not happening. There is no planned "callout" to tent cities or prepared property or anything of the sort. The call to stay put and build up Zion where you are, is the current advice of the church. LM

Congrats on coming back to activity, and wanting to come closer to God. That's big jujul So, here's a question - do you hold the Melchizedek priesthood? If you're an Elder, then well, the Bishop is big on stewardship over the Aaronic and the other members. The Stake President has stewardship over Elders and HP's. I don't remember all the details, but if you wish to confess some sins, I'm thinking it's the SP that handles disciplinary councils and whatnot for the Melchizedek PH. Anyway, I'd make an appt with the SP, and give him the exact specific behaviors and things you've witnessed from the bishop. ("He's been a jerk to me" isn't an exact specific behavior...) Let him know you have some things in your life you'd like to confess, and you'd feel more comfortable taking care of it with him. Give it a try and see what he says. At the very least, you'll know more about how things work than you do now. LM

This really isn't that hard. Getting that piece of paper doesn't have to be expensive. You don't have to have a big wedding with a ton of guests and a million bucks worth of flowers.I'm guessing if you approached your Bishop and told him what you're telling us, he'd barely be able to avoid shouting for joy, and he could help you. Really honestly truly - he's not interested in handing over guilt trips - he's interested in helping you come closer to God. If he can do that by being sensitive to your man's current situation and your finances, then hooray for everybody - especially your child. Let us know how things are working out! LM

First and foremost, the thing I've learned is that different saints report different experiences. So here's mine. Here are two things I wrote a few years back that pretty much cover everything I have to say on the issue.:

The first trilogy was probably my favorite set of fiction back in my high-school and early college days - even topping Frank Herbert for a while. I found it very thought provoking, and learned a lot about the nature of despair and hope. Then I started dating my future wife, and she read the first trilogy and absolutely hated Covenant. From her point of view, he showed up, raped a girl, and spent the next three books whining about his sorry life and how he was such a victim and everyone was mean to him. He held his place as protagonist and hero, basically because he felt really bad about the rape, and also because he could destroy the world so all the good guys had to humor him. That interaction brought my understanding of hope and despair to an even higher level - and tempered it with a healthy dose of pragmatic reality. So yeah, I did a lot of growing through reading those books and talking about them with folk. I consider that pretty high praise for a work of fiction. LM

Well, "the mormon church" isn't a living thing, and can't really believe anything one way or the other. If you're asking what the church teaches or what the church's members believe, the Articles of Faith gives a pretty good overview.Article #8: We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God. Welcome to the site! LM

If I ever had a problem with the term, it went away when I heard about the School of the Prophets that Joseph ran. One definition of "humble" is "teachable".

Don't sweat it. We're used to being insulted on purpose, so a little unintentional faux-pas is like a cool drink from a mountain stream.

Yep - fairly answered. So, I guess a more appropriate thing to discuss, is how far off can someone be about who Jesus is, and still be following Him? Here are various smatterings of what I've heard from different corners of Christianity: * Some black liberation churches teach that Jesus was put down by the man, and a good follower will try to put the man down in retaliation. * Some evangelical countercultists figure they are doing the Lord's will when they lie and decieve about themselves in order to score points against other faiths. * In America, various nondenominational churches seem to believe more and more every year that Jesus is your nonjudgemental supportive pal, like someone you'd want to go to an AA meeting with. * Some of Christianity believe that every human is a child of God, others believe that only the saved are God's children. * Wildly differing views of predestination vs agency vs foreordenation - for some, humans are rational actors who can choose to follow Christ. For others, humans have no choice in the matter - God saves whom is predestined to save, and a person can't affect the outcome no matter what the person does. * The role of authority - Catholics vs. protestants vs. restorationists - Is a loose conglomeration of followers a "church"? Can man just assume that if he feels called to the work, he's called? Do pastors/popes/prophets/reverends/individuals have the authority to act in the name of God and form churches or baptize or collect tithings or build buildings? Of course, we all figure we're right, and the other guy is wrong. But to any of us get to deny Christianity to the wrong ones? What point must be reached before someone isn't following Christ and is now following a false christ? My general notion is that if someone tells me they're a follower of Jesus Christ, I tend to believe them, unless I see some pretty clear unambiguous differences between what the scriptures claim and what I'm hearing from someone. I might argue with them about the details, but I'm happy to think about the exchange as a discussion between Christians. What do you think, Andrew? If Joseph Smith saw God and Jesus, and they were not the same person, and we base our belief system on the understanding that it's possible to shake Christ's hand without having come into physical contact with God the father, does that mean we follow a false Christ? LM

Very well Andrew. I apologize if I'm a bit overzealous in my posting style. And I apologize for any assumptions I've made regarding you or your intent here. In the decade plus that I've studied criticisms of my faith, I've sought out arguments and arguers. I have encountered questions like yours in many different arguments. They've mainly come from people who already have made their minds up about what me and my church teaches, and they pursue these lines of questions as a way to criticize my faith, reinforce their own beliefs, or convince others my faith is not correct. Forgive me if I made an unrighteous assumption, and lumped you in with them. You may or may not be, but until you demonstrate it clearly one way or the other, you are correct, you deserve respect. So, all that said, here is my basic question. Let's assume for a moment that mormons are wrong on certain elements about the nature of God, man, and the universe. Let's say we figure Jesus is our elder brother, who was created or born of God spiritually, just as He was born of Mary physically after being overshadowed by the Holy Ghost. And let's say, for the sake of establishing my argument, we're wrong about that nature. My question is, so what? When I'm on good terms with Christian critics of my faith, and I ask them what a man must do to be saved, they quote Bible verses about accepting Christ, repenting and being baptized, being born again through acceptance of the Savior, that sort of thing. They are unable to find anywhere in the Bible that says something like "If you would be saved, you must believe certain things about the nature of Jesus Christ". Basically, the Bible seems to be taking the position that taking up Christ's cross is the important thing, and being correct about all the details of who Christ is, is not so important. So, asking as respectfully as I can, what say ye? LM

Andrew, could I ask again that you answer some questions? I see you are very good at verbal jiu jitsu, using your opponent's momentum against him. I'd like to see if you're equally as good at applying Jude 1:3. Come on, let's earnestly contend for our faiths, just like the Bible says we ought. I don't believe doing so is of the devil. LM

We are not trinitarians. We reject the Athanasian Creed as something humans came up with to describe God - not something God told us about Himself. We believe in a Godhead, not a trinity. It is different than much of the rest of Christianity. As for your specific questions, answer me this - what does it matter? Or, to put it differently, let's assume Mormons are wrong about some of the details about Christ and us. Take the Bible and tell us - what do we need to do in order to be saved in Christ Jesus? If you think we need to believe that Jesus is and has always been God, please cite the verse. If you think we need to believe that we are created beings, please cite the verse. If you think we have to be right about certain details, cite the verse that is the basis for your belief. Because if you can't, then I'd suggest you are adding stuff to the Bible, making a belief system out of it, and attempting to verbally beat us over the head with your unbiblical beliefs. Laying traps of sophistry, asking vaguely defined questions in order to trick us into saying something that conflicts with how you interpret a scripture. LM