NeuroTypical

I'm sure we haven't forgotten 9/11 that quickly...

Question - which priesthood did you hold? Bishops usually deal with Aaronic, Stake Presidents usually deal with Melchizedek. Bug them. Weekly if necessary. I mean, if it's due to their inaction, then bug them as often as it takes. Call the executive seceretary and ask for 15 minutes every week. Of course, I must consider that there's a great big honkin' The Rest Of The Story going on here. I'm not presuming anything, but when an anonymous poster on some message board tells me that two bishops in a row have done them wrong, I gotta consider the possibility that there's another side to this story. I gotta consider the posibility that neither Bishop has been dragging their feet, they've both been doing their jobs and trying to help you folks through the repentence process. If that's the case, perhaps it would be better to address what's really going on. You haven't shared why you were disfellowshipped, or the current state of your repentence process. You mention faithful church attendence, paying tithing, and family scripture study - that's all good stuff of course, but rather meaningless if there's some other thing standing in the way of being a disciple of Christ. In other words, there's no way to game the system just so you can appear worthy by baptizing your daughter. But yeah, I wouldn't accept feet-dragging. There is an explanation out there, and if you truly don't have it, your kid's upcoming baptism demands that you get it. LM

There is a lot of disinformation out there about what LDS beliefs are in the first place. It is possible to have innocent questions wrapped up in such disinformation. Questions like "you do know Joseph Smith was a fraud, right?", or "So, why are you polytheists like the Egyptians", or "Why do you shun family members who leave your church" may spring from innocent ignorance, or they may be hurled jabs from people who want to start a fight and make us look like the aggressors.Anyway, dealing with such questions isn't easy for anyone, therefore, a lot of LDS folks aren't good at it either. LM

If that's your decision, you are going about it in the right way.Let us know how it goes. LM

Why not just send them over to the Mormon Apologetic Discussion Board - so they can find mormons who are perfectly happy to engage such folks? In years past, I was really big on seeking out criticisms of my faith, to see if there was anything to them. I spent years on such boards. It was a great experience. LM

I consider one factor in how small or large a disaster is, to be how far away help is. If life is running along normally, a cell phone and cash have made up for just about every disaster we've encountered while away from home. Because food, shelter, and first responders are as close as the situation warrants.

Lattelady's story is an example of why I often make the non-serious claim that I don't like the mormons. Yeah, I know that it's probably more a cultural thing than a mormon thing. Yeah, I know that our church doesn't teach that sort of shoddy behavior. Yeah, I know that Americans in general just have lost touch with what it means to know your neighbors and be friends with people who live next door to you. But at the end of the day, it seems like you can't swing a dead cat in a predominantly LDS neighborhood without hearing a similar story from a similar person who seems similarly nice. We're supposed to be better than that. 'Love thy neighbor' and all that. Joke: Man: I drink a cup of coffee every morning. It brings great benefits! Offended mormon: Goodness! All that tannic acid and harmful chemicals and whatnot! What benefits could you possibly be talking about? Man: Well, for one thing, it keeps you from being Mormon. LM

My own totally undoctrinal, off the cuff answer: Don't tell Dad how to handle His own kids. Not only is it presumptive, but it's also none of our business. (This advice covers people all bent out of shape when parents give the bad sibling a bigger chunk of the inheritance, too.) LM

You don't really have to restrict yourself to biblical times, to study populations without power. Electricity wasn't even a big hit in America until the early-mid 20th century. There are plenty of people in third-world countries (and plenty of places in China, for that matter) where you can't find a light switch or an air conditioning unit for 300 miles in any direction.It's a common discussion topic amongst the preparadness-minded - what would happen if [insert your own favorite disaster scenario here] knocked out power for [insert your favorite timeframe here]. Apart from camping, I personally have gone maybe 3 days without power at home, in the middle of winter blizards, and we did ok, because we were prepared. Not sure how we'd do for a month, or a year. LM

Ew. Who wants to go to a ward where people check up on you because it's their responsibility? I'd rather have people check up on me because they care. And forming caring relationships is a two way street, partner. In my late teens, I stopped going to church. I got a call from someone checking up on me. It was incredibly obvious someone had assigned him the job of checking up on me and trying to buddy up with me. All it did was reinforce my decision to go inactive. Of course, nowadays, I understand that to be missed, you actually have to be 'missable', and that means making friends and forming relationships, and that's something that falls on my plate and nobody else's. LM

See, that's why Shrek rocks - it tells the rest of the story. Shrek I: They get married Shrek II: They fight over in-laws and sleep in seperate rooms and dabble with reinventing themselves Shrek III: They find out she's pregnant and he deals with fears of inadequacy LM

We do something like this, as daddy is parking the cars after coming home. "You can get out if you want, but don't let me run you over."

Good topic. I've only seen someone tremble with rage once in my life. It was a guy who had moved out of the small, struggling ward I lived in. He was a good guy, and while he was in the ward, he did the work of basically four or five callings. When he returned for a visit, he was shocked to discover the new Ward Clerk had stopped running a certain quarterly report. The report was only useful when everyone used it, and nobody had used it for a long time, so the clerk didn't bother running it. The guy trembled with rage. Seriously, I thought he was going to become violent. In a cracking, barely-controlled voice, the guy let the new ward clerk know that the general handbook specifically talked about that report, and said it should be produced quarterly. He told the clerk that his stewardship was running the report, and that it was none of the clerk's business if it contained data or not, or even if the Bishop ever looked at it. It Was His Job To Print The Report And Hand It To The Bishop. Case closed, end of story. I personally am very much a spirit of the law guy. I do struggle with the behavior MissHalfway describes. The sarcastic comments I need to control, often revolve around people doing what they're supposed to without (in my unrighteous mind) sufficient understanding of why they're doing them. (The recent thread on R-rated movies edited for TV is a good example) I hope I'm not as bad as the rage filled guy was. LM

Random thoughts: * I'm all for y'all taking the sacrament with whatever hand you see fit. I don't mind you suggesting I do it too, and mentioning blessings y'all might see me having if I chose to comply. If you can stop there, we're fine. If you figure there's something wrong with me for using my left hand, that's where we might have a disagreement. * I'm happy if y'all take joy and symbolic meaning about how the sacrament is administered, what with the fancy tablecloth being lifted up and the deacons looking their best and all. Just know that the scriptures only indicate three symbolic elements - the bread, the water, and the guy saying the prayer kneels. Anything else is optional, IMO. * I once participated in an endowment session led by a guy with a disfigured right hand with missing or crooked fingers. He did everything an endowment session leader would normally do. LM

Distance without vindictiveness? Absolutely. My wife and I have distanced ourselves from her parents, because they are harmful to us, and dangers to our kids. My wife and I both have had to travel a difficult road to find forgiveness for them, but we traveled that road. Niether of us are vindictive. We both hope and pray that someday, they can be healthy enough to no longer be dangers to our kids. Distance without respect? Well, that depends on what sort of respect you're talking about. We respect them as fellow sons and daughters of God, inheriters of divine birthrights. We share parts of my wife's upbringing with them that are edifying and positive with our kids. We honor them as parents, like the commandment says, and we love them like the other commandment says, to the best of our ability. But no, we have no respect (or tolerance) for their actions and harmful behaviors. Nor should we. I guess a direct answer to your question is "Yes, it's possible, but sometimes it's dang hard. When people have done horrible things, it's important to find ways to respect them that do not condone their choices." How's that? Yeah, it's one reason why physical and sexual abuse the elderly is so difficult to detect and stop. LM

The most successful EMP disaster book out there, One Second After, has a very poignant part where the dog saves the family but is killed, so the dad gives the body to their starving neighbors, who gratefully accept it.

Well, I guess a lot depends on your parents. Here's some good reading material for both you and them:Same-Gender Attraction interview with Elder Oaks You sound an awful lot like me when I was in my mid-20's. I wasn't about to pretend to believe something I didn't, but at the same time, dang, those mormons sure look at peace with the world. Well, what can I say? We believe in a good Heavenly Father who understands you to the core of your being. He loves you and wants you to be happy. At the same time, He gives all of us trials and challenges. If you allow room for Him, you might be surprised what could happen.By way of practical suggestion, if you would like to go to church, I say do it. I'd suggest you be completely open and honest about who you are and what you want and don't want with your Bishop/Branch president. And largely due to what MarginOfError said, maybe not share your orientation with the other folks you meet, until you get to know them a bit more. Good luck! Let us know how things are going. LM

So explain something to me. You have proof that these people are raping underage girls, why are you not taking that directly to the police? Why are these people not in jail right now? How is it your only reaction is that these predatory people need help repenting, and you totally gloss over the victims with destroyed lives they're leaving in their wake?Call the police. Right now. You have a duty, a stewardship, over these innocent victims. I can't even see how this is an LDS issue, as predators like them would lie and manipulate anyone, in a church or out, once their story started getting out. Dang, slipknot, Call The Police! LM

But what about the guy whose cutting words come merely from his abrasive personality? I've never bothered cultivating grievances or seeking revenge... LM (yeah, yeah. I know - this applies to me too.)

Mok, am I correct in assuming that after a person enters the waters of baptism, a symbol of covenanting to be numbered among the church of Christ, you would consider them a "potential member" that we might be better off not-counting in our total membership numbers if they never come to church?I mean yeah, I'm all for valid numbers. I have no problem thinking (and talking) in terms of "yeah, we've got 13+ million members, maybe around half of them are active every-Sunday-type people". But in a church with such a strong emphasis on personal accountability, I don't think baptized people will ever be considered anything other than a member of the church. I'm reasonably certain everyone from Bishop on upwards has a good grip on several ways of counting our numbers. We do count and report sacrament meeting attendence weekly - our ward budgets are based on that number. Our EQ monthly report up the line includes Phood meeting attendence, potential elders attending Phood, hometeaching stats, etc. Pres. Hinckley's famous quote was along the lines of "before my body is even cold, you can bet I'll be haunting you, asking 'how are we doing on retention'?" LM (And only half of that half are worth a dang...)

Speak for yourself, Hemi. I live on top of a dang mountain, a thousand miles away from either the Pacific or the Gulf of Mexico.

A few random comments: * Of course, that blog and top 10 list are for humor purposes only. Of course the spirit should dictate actions in a horrible scenario. * I've lived in six different wards, and only heard the words 'block captain' in one of them, and they weren't talking about disaster preparadness. Most wards have some sort of emergency plan, often something copied from the cold-war era of the '50's with a 3 year old outdated phone tree tossed in for good measure. Very insufficient. I personally favor a one page flowchart for every ward family. Are you in danger? If not, is your family in danger? If not, is your house in danger? If not, is your neighborhood in danger? If not, report to church for assignments. That simple plan, coupled maybe with a little CERT training, is far superior than any emergency plan I've ever seen in the church. * No Ogre, of course the only purpose of a year's supply is not to prepare for the apocalypse. We both listen to the same Gen Conferences. I've used food storage during a long bout of unemployment. When our neighborhood got snowed in for a few days, we were able to help keep the neighbor's baby in powdered milk and diapers. I've noticed that melodrama can often have a bigger grip on people's minds than boring old "we ate rice every night for the month I was laid off", it sure does on me. There's a recent resurgent interest in societal collapse-ish and end-times-ish scenarios. Not just Hemi's "California earthquakes are a-coming" stuff, but also folks reacting (occasionally overreacting) to the new administration, NK and Iran's nuke program, increased understanding of EMP and how such weapons might fall into terrorist hands, a more deadly swine flu strain coming back - stuff like that. I personally get a kick out of thinking about my preps in terms of how to handle a zombie uprising. Of course, I don't believe in zombies, but a lot of the preparations one makes are similar. Ability to safely live for a time with limited ability to travel, random bunches of people forced to deal with a disaster together, overwhelmed or ineffective govt 1st responder resources, the breakdown of social order, empty or inaccessible grocery store shelves, lawlesness, etc. Zombies and the apocalypse and Cali sliding into the sea make those things sort of permanent. The stuff we're likely to encounter in the next 5 years indicate these will be (hopefully) temporary. Personal direction from the Spirit is certainly just as appropriate when the hoardes of undead are clawing for your brains, as it is if your neighbor got laid off too, and his kids are hungry too. LM

Light-hearted humor: My wife figures certain BoM events happened in California. Here is the reasoning.

Perhaps now would be a good time to close this thread? Mods? Anyone? I know that I certainly need a time out...