WANDERER

Travellers point of view on the Eve thing came up frequently when I stopped googling Curse of Eve and swapped to women and equality in the church type searches...thus the thinking of don't do stuff before consulting with your hubby is usually there in various forms. Yep Eve could have gone running to God AFTER eating the apple and that might have canned the marriage....goodness knows Justice. But I'm thinking more along the lines of Eve shrieking Snake, Snake...an angel with a flaming sword or two and a long discussion with God about *what was that thing?*. If God meant for the apple to be eaten then other scenarios are also possible. The Garden of Eden, knowing no good or evil, just doing....wasn't that the way satan wanted it...so why get Eve to eat the apple...? To stuff up the real apple eating plan? So we have an all things work together for good type scenario? It's a mental game of snakes and ladders....the whole lot of Eve theories. If we accept all of the premises inherrent, then Eve has been handed a lot of snakes and Adam all of the ladders. This plan has never been an equal opportunity one...Eve can only be like Heavenly Father to a certain extent......at least according to the understandings of delineated male and female roles . One might say progression for women is limited in heaven as it is on earth and amen. Something is missing in this picture and it isn't the idea that equity equals inequity. I find the whole premise a distortion of what is meant to be. 'Things must be as they are' is twaddle because.... How can one be equal and unequal at the same time, since in Christ all are equal? Today we know that male and female nervous systems can be as different as male and female bodies, that already at birth women are (statistically speaking) more relational and less aggressive, and in the adult male there is more specialization of the cerebral hemispheres, while in the woman a more developed corpus callosum allows for greater interhemispheric coordination. Precisely because there is such a relationship it is important that women are not excluded from equal decision making processes at any level. I can't help thinking that we all still chewing on the bad side of the apple whenever we attempt to present inequity as a greater good for all and divinely endorsed. Either we all are partakers of grace and mercy or we are not. "A custom without truth is ancient error."

The only thing I wonder about it is.... why neither of them consulted with God prior to decisionmaking on the whole apple thing. This would seem the most logical thing to do.

: ) Justice, I just finished reading that the numbers of men will be higher in the life after: birth rates are higher...just not population rates. Though the thought makes me smile (I'd better qualify that one with...not too many women making outer darkness...). Reading my way through various LDS blogs/Farm articles and some pieces from the author of On Sacred Loneliness/commentaries etc. I might just need to get away from it all for a while....I have twenty balls of wool to knit into a jumper...perhaps my head will be clearer by the time I finish.

Thanks Brfocker that cheered me up immensely. Nibley's rollicking romp through classical literature of "she started it" was hugely entertaining. I lost it at the part when Lady Macbeth got a mention. It's sort of like The Legend of Good Women by Chaucer...except in reverse ; ) In all sincerity...it generally does good to view someone describing the whole thing in grand epic proportions. On the other hand... it was written in the eighties (30 years...) ....and there are some slight parallels in Nibley's course of thinking.

Wow, you've really gotten that off your chest : ) ...nothing like being upfront and to the point. I'd like to say welcome to the forums. Feel free to share more about yourself in the Introduce Yourself section.

Try googling: reading lists for boys. He needs to be on a first name basis with the school librarian or the local librarian (perhaps: some can do it and some can't)...they will keep books under the counter for kids, tailor their library purchases to interest levels and have a pretty good general idea. Paolini (Eragon) does a website with email updates: you get to see the writerly process in the book production (cover choices etc). Writers camps might be fun for him (or similar things run for young writers that involve meeting authors etc). There are also books written with an index of children's authors about the writing process: meet the authors kind of thing. A list of well awarded books in retro may also be useful (a kind of modern classical books list) and watching the award process is interesting. Artemis Fowl series... I have found the advanced 9 year old boys who hate girly books will read this. Not a personal favourite of mine...but whatever keeps them busy. The Bromeliad Trilogy (Pratchett): a variation on The Borrowers is also an interesting series.

I think that it will be fairly slow and ongoing. I tend to use tinned food as my measure for how bad things are (it's a drought habit): size and/or content dimishes and price stays the same for a short while (usually marked as a sale item, regardless of the fact that it now weighs less)...exported from developing nations...shelf runouts happening and not restocked for a while...limited range...even the expensive brands don't match up to the quality that the cheapest brands once had...and long queues...understaffed. Same sort of things with fresh food and whatever else you spend your money on. Doesn't matter whether you are in debt or not. And that from a place that is a major exporter of fresh food...LOL...eating what can't be exported to anywhere else. It looks like things are pretty much the same on the surface of things...as it will.

It makes sense to document it through the paternal line....God knows best : ) Of interest: mitochondrial DNA is used to track matriarchal lines by anthropologists as it's reasonably stable. Mitochondrial DNA

Not eggs, fertilized embryos..complete with the DNA of both mother and father. Edit: simultaneous post

Global recession...a slowdown or stall (stop) likely in many countries' economy growth to make up for debt losses related to this for an extended period (how many years, how bad...it all depends). Higher interest rates, higher prices, restricted imports and no market for exports. Loan losses for banks mount, asset prices slump, unemployment, super funds hit hard (later retirements, people coming back to work from retirement) and a liquidity crunch...government takeovers to avoid a *fire sale* (the aim is actually to sell it later at a profit or at least not at a terrible loss) and a possible increase in taxes to pay for it. Short selling on stockmarkets banned. Depends on how much national debt you have and how much of a budget surplus as to how bad it will be. Not good at all for developing countries. Of course if we do nothing at all and increase the problem: some are bandying around the word *depression*.. probably not. (This short summary from the words: global recession: is provided by google for your viewing entertainment). What does it mean for the little people...going to work for money that won't buy you much (if you still have a job), probably higher taxes, empty (emptier) supermarket shelves and everything costing a whole lot more...a kind of downward squeeze effect. Poor infrastructure: health, education etc as spending budgets will be slashed. But hey, if you went through the last recession you know the drill. A bit of belt-tightening ahead. It's not fun...but there will still be low nutrition food : )

Non-fiction can have concepts in it that may be considered inappropriate as many are written in a cross-genre style for children e.g. the Horrible Histories series. If you are going in that direction then the publication date is of interest....for example space books become outdated very easily. Mixed genres are a good idea though.... paper plane building/science experiments/puzzle books etc generally appeal as they can be shared with peers.

I vote...donate to a couple...same thing as adoption really IMO. Perhaps you could talk your wish over with your doctor, though it might not be possible...you never know...it might give another couple great joy. I definitely think they should be given the chance for life. Kona I have a close family member that chose not to go IVF due to moral/religious issues regarding these choices. I didn't ask what their reasons were, but I'm sure they had good ones. But I wonder if they regret it sometimes. It's such a tough situation to be in and the decisions are never easy.

Google summer vacation reading and reading age. First up on google Elmer's Glue - TeacherVision.com I would read them first as it's the only way of knowing whether it is appropriate as different concepts for different kids are inappropriate depending on maturity level. You can also google: advanced reading 9 year old. It will also bring up lists. My rule of thumb: 5 new words per short chapter. I googled: childrens book review content rating: and this one came up. Facts on Fiction - About Us

Currently, as a result of exploring the insights given on this thread in regards to the whole family concept and how it relates to church structure, I'm now stuck at: Do LDS believe in a polygamist God?

It's a cultural tradition...more a line of considered inheritance from one traditional perspective. I embrace all of my cultural roots...both matriarchal and patriarchal family trees (complex but interesting) why not : )

Some took the money and ran ....some got caught because they paid too much for something that wasn't of that value later on down the track. But er yes...kind of. Everyone pays for it, some more than others, dollar goes down in buying value and taxes go towards stopping the ship from sinking. On one hand people lose a lot of money through stocks and super...on the other hand food prices go up and people lose their homes.

Hemi...... yes ... : ) A sort of situational/matriarchal clause. My heritage is through my grandmother and my father...so he would be the last of the matriarchal line : )

Yep, that would make you Jewish. Basically you would belong to the patriarchal family tree of whomever the last Jewish male father was in your line. : ) Edit to add: your roots haven't changed...but how wonderful to reclaim that part of your family tree ... I have some Jewish in my geneaology too ; )

Ah you're just a sweetie at heart Vort. Shine that light.

It would be similar Tom, but not quite...lots of spirit children.

Providing links to Richlittells threads where the conversation continues Significant contribution of women http://www.lds.net/forums/lds-gospel-discussion/14401-significant-contribution-women.html and Faith of my Mothers http://www.lds.net/forums/lds-gospel-discussion/14402-faith-my-mothers.html

It is a big deal. It HURTS. In many places where there is a big turnover of people or hardly any turnover of people they don't have huge skills for coping with that. While I'm joking, it's also good modelling ; )

So sorry. Nope not really... "Everyone colours it pink" ...my heart just went out to you when you said that. We're so busy trying to *cure* cancer that grief is left to the wayside in all of that. My sincere condolences. I hope that things will get better within your church. For fun, when people say, "I thought you'd gone inactive." Try, "Me too!" (pause, read their faces, it's fun)."Glad to see you're still here. I'd really miss you if you left." Hug everyone in the vicinity dramatically. : )

Moving along to: What do you do when God hands you a seemingly impossible task? How do you deal with brick walls and be all that God requires of you? How do we help Priesthood holders?

In the essense of having a sense of humour: may I recommend a verse that will assist LOL Somewhere *mmm, perhaps in Revelations* it says Even in the last days the hand maidens will prophecy. Really, it's a very powerful scripture. Say the scripture frequently *grin*. Whenever you come across some guy who doesn't think you should be doing what you're doing or whatever: recite it with as much humbleness as you have...whatever you do...don't start reciting Isaiah as that will freak them right out ; ) Firstly....a handmaiden is the lowest of the low....even amongst women she doesn't have any status...she's hardly a contender for equality even within her own gender. Secondly if women only get to prophesy when the fabric of the world is ripping apart and their death is imminent.... not too many people find this threatening either. Unless of course they run their own covert group of end-time survivalists ...in which case they may try to enlist you as a possible Miriam. Unless you really love CANNING, this is not an option you should consider. Thirdly, since you're probably not prophesying but just doing the most humble of church work...you're not doing anything suspiciously end of days. Lastly, mentioning the last days may make them think seriously about being charitable to others...and even if they don't have charity...they may at least think that the last days are too far away to worry about... Laugh, it's essential in situations like this.