Traveler

If your post referred to my post (#13) you missed my point completely. My point was not to try to find someone to compare to or to find fault with. It was posted for each individual to see themselves. In addition I do not believe happiness can ever be found by trying to compare oneself with anyone else. Nor do I believe that happiness can be found vicariously through others. It must come from within. Shakespeare once said, “To thine own self be true and it shall follow as the night the day, thou cannot be false to any man.” In general I believe that those that respect themselves respect others and are happy. I have yet to find someone that is disappointed with themselves that is happy. The Traveler

Not sure I agree with this statement. I know of nothing that can happen without some incentive. Water flows down hill because gravity gives it the incentive to do so. Saying that we will make water "free" to flow up hill does not mean that it will. Also if everyone has plenty of food - what encentive is to be offered to them to contribute. What we have learned by entitlements (even among the rich) that people tend to become more selfish and demanding of more entitlements. I submit that only in a family setting can a person truly become unselfish and turn from the needs, wants and desires of self. The Traveler

The general trend for both poverty and criminal activity is much higher in broken families than in families with both a loving father and loving mother. In Chapter 4 of the Book “Freakonomics” there is data presented that correlates abortion with lowering the segment of the population associated with broken and single parent families thus lowering the crime rate and those that live below the poverty line. In the USA over 85% of the poverty and crime is generated in the segment of the population directly associated with broken families. I assume this is also the case in the world arena. The biggest concern is if the trend continues to cycle with broken homes and poverty that within a generation over 50% of the population in the USA will be below the poverty line and up to a third of the population should have served jail time. Currently there are pockets with very low family involvement that reflect the result of such a trend. The Traveler

Thank you for your post - but what do you "KNOW" to be true and how did you come to know that it was true? For example - Do you know what belongs to you? How do you know that it is yours and no one elses? The Traveler

I do not enter this post to offend anyone – only to state some observations and what I believe to be true. 1. As someone that has traveled somewhat outside of the USA – I can spot most citizens of the USA because they are overweight. Not a little but quite a bit. 2. A person’s body is a temple of G-d. We all have an obligation to take care of this great gift from G-d. Proper care of a physical temple (body) adds (does not take away) from the spirit. 3. There is a basis of 3 things that should be observed to maintain a fit and well maintained physical body and temple. (1) Sufficient rest. (2) Eating of healthy and nutritious foods. (3) Adequate exercise. (I would note that with so many modern conveniences that unless we go out of our way to do so we will not get enough exercise and will likely neglect our body as a temple). 4. Like so many things in life – to be healthy is not different from many other things. It requires commitment and discipline. There are things we all can do to improve. I am not trying to point at anyone but I am quite sure that if anyone is overweight and they do not plan to do anything about it that their overweight will only become worse and that at some point it will affect their spirituality. I believe that just like the spirit needs constant nourishment so does the physical – to neglect covenant by sporadic commitments is not the best or happy way to live. If someone was to see me they would realize that I am not concerned about how I look but I do find great joy in being able to get on my bicycle and ride 100 miles without killing myself and I commuted to work on a bicycle (25 miles one way) for over 40 years. But you know what – I hate running. The Traveler

The problem is marriage. When society refuses to uphold and support the concept of a lifelong marriage (as a minimum) with real commitment to family; every ill of society will continue to multiple until that society suffers collapse. Providing money, food and shelter will remain temporary solutions until permeate families has privilege place and status in society. Until we take family seriously – as the only means by which a next generation can survive and overcome the stupidity of selfish greed and selfish need and replace that greed and self need with respect for marriage and family you will only mask the cause and treat a symptom. The Traveler

I think some are missing the point - I am sorry I did not ask or communicate my question well. So I will try again. Can anyone name something that they know to be true without possibility of perception error and the means that they know that is true? I am not talking about faith or belief. I am asking about pure knowledge - something you can say - "This I know to be true. I know it to be true because _______ or I did ________. I also know that by _________, whenever it is possible, the truth is absolutely established and that there is no way I can error in my perception. Now you can fill in the blank with touch, see, feel, taste, or whatever you do to know a thing. There is, of course, one other possibility. That is that you personally really do not know anything for sure and live your entire life basing on faith or what you think and perceive rather than on what you know. That is fine. What I am interested in is your personal input. What if anything do you “Know” to be true and how did you come to know it? There is likely to be a follow up question – how do you know that how you came to know it is true and free of perception error? I do have a method I use – what I am doing is a sanity check. I want to hear what others have done, the success they have, the extent to which they trust and use their method and the results or conclusions they have achieved. The Traveler

One of the worse fights my wife and I had early in our marriage was determining how to keep the Sabbath day Holy. She was raised in a home where TV was forbidden but family picnics and other social functions were okay. In my home TV was okay and picnics and other social functions were forbidden. Besides the problem we had with each other if any of our individual family members visited us on a Sabbath they would criticize or make fun of the side of the other side of the family’s traditions. We solved the problem by sitting down with each other and deciding what would be our traditions in our home. We came to a conclusion that we needed to establish our own Sabbath covenants according to our understanding and appreciation of a Sabbath. The point I would like to make here is that often we establish our sacred obligations to please friends, extended family and neighbors (including ward members) rather than our L-rd. Rather than to seek what is ok or not ok for the Sabbath seek to establish your covenants and provide an environment of a day of devotion and worship of your L-rd on the day that is your Sabbath. The Traveler

Isn’t the Holy Ghost a girl? I believe there is a scripture that says that the Holy Ghost was a broad in the land? The Traveler

Jesus the Christ is a most important title. We are told in scripture that there are several unique things about Jesus that qualify him as the G-d of fallen man and the Christ to save fallen man. 1. Jesus is the First born of the Father. Many think this means the oldest. Although he is sometimes referenced in this manner I am not sure it is correct. In ancient time the first born was the most noble born or most noble. It is interesting that in all the types and shadows of the scriptures where two in the same household sought the birthright of the father that it always was given to the younger. The point is that Jesus is the most noble of all the children of the Father. 2. According to LDS theology there was a great counsel in heaven where the Father made known his “Plan of Salvation” for his children. An integral part of his plan involved a Christ or savior. When the signup sheet was passed around there was only one volunteer to complete the mission. The other so-called volunteer intended to alter the plan to his advantage. The point here is that Jesus was the only one that volunteered to be the Christ in the Father plan. 3. Jesus was never fallen and was never subject to the fall of Adam and Eve. 4. Jesus was the only begotten of the Father in the flesh. This relates to #3 and though Jesus called himself “The Son of Man” he was not flesh in the sense that he was fallen and as such subject to death. He could not die by having his life taken but could only die if he gave himself to death. The Traveler

The question involves knowledge, perception and belief. My son likes to quote a TV show concerning passing a polygraph test and say, “Something is not a lie if you believe it.” So here is my question. What is something that a person can know without the possibility of perception error and how can you be sure you are not deceived? Also, how much does our “belief” skew and effect our perceptions and our definition of reality (what we know)? The Traveler

One thing we learn from the Book of Mormon is that the true religion's greatest threat is Pride not outside dominance. The Traveler

Jesus said that he did nothing but that he was commanded. What greater reason is there for service beyond sacrifice and divine duty? I am not sure that service for reward is really service. The Traveler

Is it right (do you believe) that G-d punishes someone that was deceived and made a choice contrary to their real nature? The Traveler

In general what would you say is greater and why? Belief or Discipline The Traveler

Some points: 1. Disciplinary courts and counsels are for the purpose of helping a person repent and renew their covenants. After 15 years away it is likely that your friend will not be excommunicated. 2. Excommunication nullifies one’s covenants with G-d and they must start over again – including baptism. Disfellowship suspends one’s covenants with G-d while they get themselves together. They will not be re-baptized but following their repentance they will resume their covenants where they left off. 3. In most cases that I have seen when someone falls away, especially with severe moral problems they become so lost to the spirit they will believe that they never really had a testimony in the first place. Then after they have returned and are renewed by the spirit they will express the feeling that they never completely lost their testimony. Other than being touched or untouched by the spirit I do not know why this happens. Good for you Baytor for helping your good friend when your example was most needed. The Traveler

From history we learn that the worse victoms of recessions and down terns in economy are the poor and lower income. It is also interesting to note that the best benefits for poor and lower income sectors of society is a healthy economy - Not government programs. The Traveler

I find your post interesting and I have the feeling that they are only a tip of an iceburg representation of your thinking. May I add something to your thought? I have always believed that answers to prayers are already answered before we even think of prayer. The real purpose of prayer is not to change anything G-d is doing but to change something within ourselves to become aware and part of what G-d is already doing. The only thing taking time is a change within us. The Traveler

When my children were young I always encouraged them to experience spiritual things and to make an effort to express such experiences. The rule of thumb I encouraged them to follow was to come to sacrament meeting having fasted and prayed before attempting to share their testimonies. Very few children will do something that they have not learned and seldom will they learn something they were not taught. However, with my children, especially when they were young, I was often surprised and amazed with what they actually learned. Sometimes my surprise and amazement was pleasing and sometimes I was embarrassed. The Traveler

It is a lot funner to be the example of what you believe in attempting to show others the way and in turn finding something usefull from their beliefs. The Traveler The Traveler

I find the gospel easy and simple – so simple even a child can understand. I also find studying the gospel like an infinite onion. That is below each layer of understanding is another layer adding stunning brilliance. I call this the “Ah HA” or “Eureka” principle. It is interesting because I think I have learned something new, complex and wonderful only to think about it for a while and conclude that I have really always believe it and in reality it is quite simple. As simple as it is one can spend their whole lifetime exploring and learning about the gospel of Jesus Christ with numerous experiences of dajaview. Or as Isaiah said, "line upon line upon line, precept upon precept upon precept." The Traveler

No one can decide what you should be - that is something you must decide. The truth is that everyone should be Mormon but the reality is that few will be and most will not because they are not committed. In general, from your post, it appears that you do not understand being committed by covenant. Jesus said that is it better to have not known him than to accept him and not be committed to our covenants. I believe this is often the case for those that think accepting Christ (even in their heart), salvation and being saved is all about them and what they will and can get in eternity. Let me give one example from the concept of the second mile. When Jesus lived the Romans had a law that allowed any Roman citizen to require a Jew to carry stuff for a mile. This would require the Jew to set aside whatever they carried to accommodate the Roman. It was a means Romans could use to steal whatever the Jew was carrying for when the Jew returned to his things they would be gone. Refusal to accommodate the Roman was punishable by death. The Jews hated this unfair law and it was part of the reason the Jews rebelled against the Romans in 74 AD. When asked about being treated unfair Jesus taught that someone that accepts him would carry the burden two miles when compelled to carry it one. There is no one in their right mind or that understands justice would say that the extra mile is the right thing to do – there are many reasons to argue against obedience to unfair and unjust laws but if you accept Jesus it is not about your logic and your ability to figure out what is just. The Traveler

I would suggest you reread Job and the next time you visit the temple - listen very carefully. Satan has power to try and trouble even those that do not follow his whisperings. The Traveler

We learn that Satan tried to gain power over Jesus by quoting scripture. I assume if Satan would attempt that with Jesus he would do so with others. The Pharisees and scribes argued, as does your mother, that truth is in scripture but Jesus countered that one can only know the truth by continuing (doing) what he said or commands. The power to overcome Satan is not in scripture but in Jesus Christ. It has been my experience that those that know Jesus only through the scriptures do not know Jesus very well (as was most of the Pharisees and Scribes that were the ancient experts in scripture). The correct way to learn of Jesus was as Peter came to understand. The Traveler

There are two possibilities: 1. G-d does not answer - for whatever reason G-d does not answer prayers. He could be too busy, he really does not care or it is even possible that he does not exist. 2. The person cannot percieve a manifestation from G-d. In the parable of the sewer Jesus indicates that some soil has not been prepared for the seed and therefore the seed has no place in harden, rocky or weed infested soil. The Traveler