Traveler

There are worse things than war and they all come from losing one. (Quote by Winston Churchill) The Traveler

Interesting question - when I was in the army (60's) we would receive "C" rations that had cigarettes in small packages of 3 cigarettes. They were donated by the tobacco companies to the military and I am sure this was done to addict our troops. I would save mine until we were in the field where I would either sell single cigarettes for 1 dollar cash or trade to get out of duty or other favors. I could have sold the cigarettes for $5 but at the time I felt that was taking too much the advantage. I would also try to convince my customers to give up smoking. Hypocrisy? I think so. I was 17 and the youngest and smallest in my company. Now I look back on those days in amazement at the predators that took advantage of troops far from home. Even though I took advantage they all thought me their trusted friend for it. The Traveler

The question of this thread was in a divorce, what happens to the guilty? May I amend that question so we can better understand and simply ask? What happens to the unrepentant? We are all guilty to some degree or another and perhaps if all truth and thoughts were known every married person would have cause to divorce their spouse. Therefore, it is not the cause of justification that should concern us in divorce or in a marriage struggling to survive blame or other shortcomings but the cause of repentance that needs to inspire us all to ask forgiveness of our G-d and our spouses. Maybe it is not understanding the need to repent and seek forgiveness but to give blame that is the cause of the curent rise in divorce among us all - regardless of our religion. The Traveler

I liked your post and perhaps we may discuss the more in detail. I thought much about your post and have come to the conclusion that there are limits and considerations to the concept of destructive by nature concept. Here is how I now believe this concept needs to be amended. I am glad you have brought up this idea or I would not have realized the implications to human society of individual destructive nature. As individuals we are all destructive by nature. As long as we hold to our individual needs, wants, desires, passions, orientations or natures we become both destructive to ourselves and to society. Only by rising above the inclinations of self and becoming a member subject of society can we benefit society. I will define a member subject as someone that is a contributing member for good of society. The smallest unit of society that can in reality exist is a family. Without the basis of family society fails and withers in one generation. Only a family (smallest unit of society) that perpetrates marriage and family as the continuing basis can survive. Those that break away from and rebel against family based on an individual cause are indeed destructive. We are predisposed to be selfish. Only by a process of discipline and learning (intelligently changing our predisposition to selfishness) can we change our destructive selfish nature. It is this destructive nature that is the cause of every destructive force in society and the reason laws are passed to protect individuals embracing family from intrusions of selfish individuals that rebel against social order and define themselves void of family. The Traveler

I believe you are correct in understanding the “great” divide between Mormons like me and Christians like yourself. I have been rather “hard” with you concerning doctrines I feel to be important. I think you have been gentler but still it is difficult to find adequate common ground to stand together with some doctrines while other doctrines are more common despite our insistence that there must be difference. Despite all our differences if it should ever come to pass that I have place to speak in your behalf before G-d the Father and his Son Jesus Christ – I will without any reservation speak to your benefit as an advocate even if it would turn to my eternal detriment. I prefer to live in a kingdom or society that has place for someone like you than to live in a society of fellow “perfected” saints that would not make place for someone like you. This sediment is also in my current prayers. As far as I am concerned the gap has been bridged. The Traveler

It is interesting how “we” speculate about how Satan intended to bring about his plan. This is not rocket science my friends. Satan has been about implementing his plan from the beginning. The main concept in his plan is not about your status but his status. It is his desire to be an all powerful G-d to bring about and act as he will or wishes. He wants to be your G-d. He wants you to believe in a G-d that will “take care” of you. Note the concept of “take care” is in direct opposition to “agency”. This is a very enticing concept. Even in our current political climate there are expectations that government will take care rather than foster agency or responsibility, accountability, stewardship and liberty. I believe Satan has every desire to “take care” of his subjects. There appears to be speculation that Satan’s plan will not work. This is a most unfortunate error. His plan works very well, in fact with many people his plan is the only plan that will work. His plan has another name called Hell. And do not kid yourself. His ability to control and determine how his “subjects” are kept will work, has worked and is working exactly as he intends it to. The Traveler

I use to believe this – that we could just turn offenders over to G-d and let him grind them to pieces while we sit innocently on the sidelines and say nothing. Justice is about offenders getting what they deserve. There are two problems: The first problem is arrogance that bad people (bad people are defined in such a way that I am never the bad guy – it must always be someone else) will get what they deserve but me and my friends will not get what we actually deserve. We will get what we do not deserve. Then we begin to make up reasons why we will skip what we deserve because in some way we are better than “THEM” – so we really do deserve something better. We did not commit adultery that proves we are better or greater value to – even to G-d because he will punish them - because they are vermin and deserve punishment. This thinking poisons the soul and excuses us from having compassion because compassion is not form “THEM”. It allows us to turn our back on THEM because THEY are damaged goods and there is nothing of real value to be salvaged from their ruined lives. We can rejoice and celebrate their eternal sorrow. Yes; we say we love them and forgive them but our hearts prepare to delight in their eternal sorrow. And thus our hearts become dark. The second problem is that we never really forgive. We robe ourselves of that great opportunity to allow the sacrifice and suffering of Christ to pay for their sins in our eyes. We refuse to pray from our very being that G-d forgive them because we have come to believe such forgiveness is impossible – especially for G-d. Now there is an excuse for them. Because we (the true sheep of the fold) never forgave them how could they ever return and enjoy society with us? They are not lost sheep to be sought out they are sheep to be cast off to hell. They would then have every right to hate us, despise us and blame us for a greater evil for they would have returned had we but let them. If anyone wants to be forgiven let them be forgiven. This is the only way that we can separate out those that do not want to be forgiven from those that do. Let us pray that ever man and woman find what their heart desires. Let those that desire to live adultery so live. Let those that desire to live without adultery also so live. If someone wants to live and marry according to G-d’s eternal law – let them so learn and live. Let us be the “ADVOCATE” of all. Let us not be the “ACCUSER” of anyone. Jesus Christ is the advocate – let us take upon our self his name. Satan is the accuser – let us not take upon our self his name or any name like it. If there is another name by which we can be known as neither advocate nor accuser – I do not know it someone will have to explain that name to me. Perhaps that name is “Luke warm”. The Traveler

If it were not for LDS teachings I would be a Buddhist. I have never met a crazy bugghist - I do not believe such is really possible. Only to those that are truly crazy with false understandings. May I add one thing to your teachings? To me the greatest miracle is one that will suffer (sacrifice) for another. I believe this is the greatest miracle of one that is enlightened. Only by willingness to suffer for others can there come an end to suffering. The Traveler

I agree with all that you have said. However, I wish that we could all see the blessings of marriage and the greater eternal blessings of temple marriage. Focus on the blessing and not the curse of failed covenants. Let us all celebrate all marriages intended if just for this life to conform to divine direction. Divine marriage of a man and a woman is a great blessing and the best possible way for society to insure humans survive and prosper through generations. No nation can survive to the next generation without divine marriages. Nothing else will come even close the bringing the blessings to societies and nations that respect men and women that foster another generation to such a noble ideal by extending their marriage to their children. We will likely learn and experience what becomes of a nation that would rather divorce for lust than live by covenant in marriage. One thing I have learned is that it is much easier to repent and come unto G-d by avoiding sin than it is to repent and come unto G-d after indulging in sin. The Traveler

I sometimes feel that I am not communicating the truth correctly. The problem is not with the marriage of someone that has sinned nor is it a remarriage of someone that has sinned; the problem is divorce and the breaking of the covenant of chastity which is paramount in marriage as a divine covenant. Yes - in many cases divorce is adultery. Even after divorce there is strong temptation to continue with adultery and despise chastity. But as we know from scripture that Jesus when confronted by someone "taken" in adultery for which the law and the scriptures indicated death (by stoning) was appropriate before G-d. Jesus also indicated that there was a “more excellent” way in G-d. Jesus told the adulteress that he did not condemn her and that she was to go her way and sin no more. I believe this is in the heart of all Christians that are spiritually born of G-d. Not only do I believe that Christians love the sinner and hate the sin but that Christians welcome into full fellowship of the saints and respect as a covenant child of G-d to all that repent. Does this mean that a spouse who was wronged by an adulterous husband must accept him back as her husband if he repents? No it does not – because of divorce she is free to marry according to her choice – as is any man or woman but as a Christian she also has every right to let the sin of her former husband go, forgive him and condemn him no more and to forever be free of any ill feelings towards him or caused by him. But if she weds another that is her choice and if he (the adulterous husband) repents and another will have him in marriage then I believe is possible through the mercy of G-d that they marry according to the covenant of G-d. I do not pretend that it is easy to repent or to be spiritually born of G-d. All that I say is that with G-d it is possible. No one that desires to return to G-d is outside of his merciful reach. But if the husband does not repent he will live forever in adultery (as all will live in their sins that do not repent) all of which has nothing to do with whether or not his former wife has or has not forgiven him. And may I add that forgiveness is a necessary part of repentance and to be forgiven. The Traveler

In today's world many spouses will not accept back a husband after a divorce. Many have moved on in their lives. The point you seem to not understand or want to accept is that there is a way to repent and return to G-d for everyone. For some the lost blessings from broken covenants are indeed lost forever but there are still blessings that can be obtained by repenting, living and obeying covenant moving forward. Regardless of past sins. Now is the time to repent and come unto G-d. If someone needs to repent then let’s encourage them to repent. Let the world worry and dwell on how hard or next to impossible it may be. Let the world worry about punishments and if someone that divorced got what they deserve. The good news is that there is a way for everybody - everybody. Let us have a message that all things are possible with G-d because that is the most important truth. The Traveler

I am not aware of any president that initiated a divorce. The only divorce I know of with a president was Brigham Young and Fawn Broty (sorry about the spelling). Dispite the fact that Fawn had broken her covenants it was still her and not Brigham that forced the devorce. If you are trying to imply that a president was not upholding their covenants would you please list which prophet and how they were the one to dishonor their covenant. The Traveler

I think for the most part we agree - you are just coming to your conclusions from a different angle. Of course G-d has part in all things that happen since the beginning of time - he knows all things and takes all things into account in his great plan. Where you appear to have problem with the point that I am trying to make is you seem to have left out the benefit that man has when making and keeping a covenant with G-d through his lawful and appointed servants according to the ordnances he has prescribed. These covenants are different from all other covenant and contracts that man is capable of entering into while living in mortality. The difference is that covenants with G-d are everlasting and go beyond our mortality. You are correct that there are moral covenants in morality that G-d honors and respects. If you enter into a contract to purchase property and a house and honor that covenant and pay the full amount of the contract – G-d allows that ownership (or stewardship) while you live out you life but you will not take with you anything you gained by contract from this life. Also if you dishonor your contracts you will receive punishment; be it in this life or the next. But the important thing is to understand covenants with G-d and the importance of such covenants because they have power for blessings beyond this life. Unless you covenant with G-d (according to G-d’s direction) any blessing gained in this life will fade from you when you are resurrected. There is no exception. While you are focusing on punishments I am focused on the blessings. You are correct in your understanding that no one is punished for any covenant they did not make. This I believe to be true. My point is the extension of that logic in that no one is blessed eternally of G-d for any covenant they do not make (not make or refuse to take upon themselves), honor and fulfill with him. The Traveler

I know and understand my own contemplations - what I hoped to learn is something about the contemplations of others. Moksha: What is a miracle to you and why is a single flower a miracle specific to you? The Traveler

There is a slight difference in the LDS understanding. Our understanding is that there are several elements that govern covenants with G-d. Intent is only one element. I respect your understanding but our understanding is different. Like the unauthorized person trying to steady the Ark - intent is important but only those that G-d authorizes are acceptable by him to be his agent and proxy. We believe if something is not done without this authority the covenant is not valid. The main point I would like to get past is not what makes a covenant invalid but what makes a covenant valid. How does a person that has failed a covenant reestablish themselves before G-d? How does a prodigal return? I want to make sure that all understand that LDS doctrine welcomes the return of the prodigal that indeed have returned. The Traveler

All things are governed by law and all will make an accounting for the covenant and associated law. As I understand only a temple marriage includes eternal (eternal meaning G-d's) law. What you are missing is that the blessings of the WoW cannot be given to those that do not covenant. As I understand covenants - they are for the purpose of blessing. Rather than the opposit being a reason for punishment for those that do not have or live a particular covenant. The reason for the WoW is not to punish those that do not seek or live the covenant but to reward those the "knock", "seek" and "ask" thereby recieving and living the covenant and thus are blessed. The Good News about making a covenant with G-d is that all are welcome to repent and come unto G-d and to become partakers in his rich blessings. I want to make it clear that all are welcome to come unto G-d; and regardless of their past and their failures to accept the atonement of Christ - be forgiven of whatever it is in their past - and become a saint, born again of the spirit - a child of G-d and an heir of all that G-d has. Regardless of what you have done there is a way - the only way - to become blameless and pure. And G-d has sent his servants into the world with power to teach and assist everyone that desires to come unto G-d. No exceptions - The way open and available to all that are willing to covenant or in some cases to covenant again with G-d. The Traveler

Please define miracle. How is a single flower a miracle to you? For me a miracle is a gift from G-d, therefore one cannot understand or comprehend a miracle without an attachment or belief in G-d. For me one of the greatest miracles is prayer - the promise that the most intelligent entity of the universe will hear you and assist you in your journey is one of the greatest of all possible miracles. The Traveler

There is a difference based on the covenant one has in their marriage. If their broken marriage was made "before G-d" or according to LDS terminology a “temple” or “Celestial” marriage they need to obtain a “temple recommend” specific to having their marriage “sealed” in the temple. If they had what we call a civil marriage then a civil divorce is all that is needed to end that covenant – because G-d is not part of such a covenant. Any LDS temple marriage requires a recommend for that covenant to be sealed in the temple. One thing to keep in mind that when one presents themselves before the L-rd for a covenant through his appointed servants, past guilt or blame is not really a part of the picture. A person is “recommended” for covenant based on their repentance and faith in Christ. If there are things in a person’s past that are in question the bishop or other authority in the priesthood is there as an “advocate” to assist that person in reconciling with G-d. (Note in the LDS way of thinking a priesthood holder represents G-d as an agent or proxy in covenant – what is bound on earth is bound in heaven). With this in mind a priesthood authority may ask a person to do some thing - not as punishment but as preparation for sacred covenant. Therefore, the person is not “damned” excluded or punished from a covenant with G-d but assisted in their repentance process (in the same manner that Christ is an advocate) by those called to G-d service. The Traveler

When two prophets are killed in Jerusalem and left in the streets while people celebrate around the world and send each other presents. I will know the day even within a few hours - so will a lot of other covenant children of G-d. His coming will not be a surprise to everybody. One thing I have learned - those that do not know and understand what is happening are the ones that speculate. Those that recognize the signs - according to the covenant - do not say very much, except to prepare. As for me – I am still planting fruit trees. The Traveler

I have to get this off my chest. Everybody agrees that the economy of the USA is in a mess and that it has affected the entire world. I understand that some very stupid things were done. I do not agree that the money just disappeared into thin air. But that is not the point I want to make with this post. This is my point. The USA is the world’s largest and most successful capitalist country and our economy is in a horrible mess. According to president Obama it is the worse it has been since the great depression. This is despite the fact that it is a capitalist economy. So we are going to have to borrow some money – lots of money. But with the world economy in shambles where do we go to get money – who has the cash to purchase our debt? Would you believe China? The world’s largest socialist country is the most economical stable country to be able to buy our debt. If socialism is so rotten – how come China is in the best position during these hard times to purchase our debt - with CASH? The Traveler

Having traveled to Asia there are many reasons an American male would find these ladies attractive. Except for oral care they are beautiful, friendly and gracious. I would also note that Americans are very easy to spot when traveling – most likely they are the obnoxious, arrogant, laude and overweight. The Traveler

Some thoughts about guns. If you own a gun and have any ideas about using it for protection then please understand a few things. If you have any problems or concerns about killing someone you are in trouble – you are more likely to be killed than to survive a situation that you use your gun for protection. Using a gun to threaten someone is as likely to get you killed as to keep you and your family safe. If you load a gun you have made the decision to use it – all you need and waiting for is the opportunity. An unloaded gun is more likely to get you killed than a loaded gun. I can make a gun from materials found in most homes and garages. More gun restriction laws will not keep guns from those that do not obey the law – it will only make it more difficult for law abiding citizens to be safe in their own homes. It is already illegal for a convicted felon to have a gun in their possession. If you want to make society safer then the law should make the use of a gun to commit any crime a capital offense. The decision to use a gun has already been made by anyone that is willing to possess a gun. (Looking, inspecting and handling someone else’s gun(s) in their presents and under their supervision is not possessing a firearm unless you are considering firing it.) BTW – if you are a felon and are allowed to handle a gun then both you and the person allowing the handling are guilt of a crime. Last thought – if you own a gun with the intent of using it, for hunting, sport or any other reason you should fire that gun on a range at least once a month. The Traveler

The Book of Mormon is an incredible document that sheds light on several important subjects” 1. The history, society, geography and conditions of the Arabian Peninsula around 600 BC. 2. A divine witness of Christ that conforms and fulfills Biblical requirements. (See Genesis 41:32) 3. A companion to the Bible as required in #2 – The arguments I have seen that are claimed to disprove the Book of Mormon would also disprove the Bible. For example the claim that the indigenous peoples of the Americas prior to the arrival of Columbus migrated over ancient land bridges to Asia from 20,000 and 40,000 years ago. This would also disprove Adam existed some 6,000 years ago as recorded in the Bible as well as the Bible testifying that all modern societies are derived from Noah. 4. Proof that Jesus is indeed the Christ to all peoples throughout the entire world – both in respect to geography and time. And that G-d is both interested and has a plan of salvation for all peoples – regardless of place or time. 5. An ancient book of divine scripture divinely crafted and preserved specifically for our time. 6. That G-d calls his servants with the same power and miracle today as he did in the days of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Moses. 7. That there are miracles as divinely empowered today as in any age, place or time. As many did not recognize Christ as he walked and talked among man and as many that claimed to be covenant children of G-d rejected Jesus as the Christ – so today there are among men those that reject the Book of Mormon using the same patterns and excuses as those that rejected the Christ – claiming among other things that there is a contradiction with the traditions and traditional understanding of traditional scriptures. What I am suggesting is that just like in the days of Jesus many made excuse to deny that He was the Christ – so many today deny that the Book of Mormon is of G-d and demand that it be proven (or as with Jesus that he speak plainly). The Traveler

Every citizen has a right and responsibility to participate in government - and that includes paying taxes. Many think that some citizens should not be considered equal to others in the eyes of the government. The Traveler

I have been present when a number of "loved ones" have passed. I look forward to their assistance when I pass. The Traveler