Traveler

This is a function of the Melchizedek priesthood and would not have occured until Peter, James and John visited Joseph and Oliver. The Traveler

May I add something here? Not only is it necessary that Jesus be without sin but also it was necessary that he not be a partaker of the fall - thereby retaining his divine and G-dly titles that he could abide the presents of G-d the Father. Jesus is also the Mediator and voluntarily condescends below his divine station to suffer as a sacrifice for all that the fallen state of man requires for justice. The Fall of man is the first great knowledge required for understanding of the Plan of Salvation that was the plan of God the Father from the beginning. The Traveler

The simple answer is because of the fall of Adam all mankind are fallen and thus cast out from the presents of G-d (the tree of life). Therefore there must be a "keeper of the way" to the tree of life and all must enter by that way. (See Genesis 3:24) The Traveler

Interesting thought you have concerning a "mixture of Christians". Many believe that among the mixture of Christians will be those Jews that "respect one another’s views" that get "set straight" when Jesus returns. Perhaps there will also be some Muslims that believe Jesus Christ will return with Mohamed to “set straight” the Christians that did not believe the revelations of Mohamed. Perhaps there will also be some Hindus that believe the world has degenerated from a golden age through an age of silver and an age of bronze to a degraded age of iron and finely an age of iron mixed with “dirt” (See Daniel chapter 2). That believe when all “evil” has run its course that the golden age will be brought back by divine intervention. Perhaps there will also be some Buddhist that believe that by living in harmony with all that is around them that they will be recognized by all others that also live in harmony. Perhaps there will also be some agnostics and atheists that believe we should not require a religion or belief in some G-d or afterlife before we will live with kindness and compassion toward others. Do we dare consider that Jesus may have been completely correct when he said: “Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy. Blessed are the pure in heart for they shall see G-d. Blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be called the children of G-d. Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.” Maybe it is not just what we believe but how what we believe has affected the way we treat others and endure the treatment of others. The Traveler

Interesting how what goes around comes around (Karma). The term "Pagan" was a denigrating term invented by the "Christians" that gained political power in order to refer to religions that did not meet their "doctorial" requirements. Those that met the doctrinal litmus test for Christian but differed on some other point of doctrine were labeled with the term “Heretic”. The Traveler

I believe it is the intent of G-d to speak to every human person that lives or has ever lived; every nation, kindred, tongue and people. I have always believed that this notion implies that G-d will speak to everyone in a tongue they understand. If G-d is speaking through anyone to someone else then I believe what is spoken will be understood by those to whom G-d is speaking. As to the concept that {they're saying words that are "so great and wonderful they cannot be uttered by the mouths of men".} is not exactly correct as I understand spiritual things. From time to time things given us from G-d can touch and affect us so deeply that there is no way to express what has happened in any language what happened. Any attempt to describe or to document our experience and understanding falls hopelessly short and deficient of the whole of what did occur. The Traveler

Sunday in our ward conference we were discussing harmony in the home. As the question was being discussed a wonderful idea came to me. You all must understand that my wife and I are as different as two people could be. Marriage has been a most difficult adjustment for both of us. Somehow we have remained committed and married for over 35 years and it has taken me most of that time to learn how I should harmonize with my family. The thought that came to me comes from principles of music. I have sung in the ward choir for many years and have learned a thing or two from several ward choir directors (some who have been part of the Tabernacle Choir. Harmony is not everybody singing the same note. In fact there is no harmony if everyone is singing the same note. Harmony is not really about being together on one single idea. Harmony is blending separate and different notes or ideas. Harmony is not about singing your note with perfect pitch. Harmony is achieved by listening to what other are singing and adjusting what you are singing to fit. If everybody is singing their notes slightly flat and you insist in singing your note precisely at the correct frequency that was written in the score, then you will not be singing in harmony with the choir. If you cannot hear the others in your family and make adjustments to what you are doing then you are the cause of disharmony in your family – Harmony is not about you being right. It is about you making slight adjustments to blend with the others. The Traveler

Correction: In every generation and people there will ALWAYS be greed and corruption. :) The Traveler

Yes - contrary to what is taught in some "Christian" churches Jesus taught us to pray always. The Traveler

When Michael Angelo was painting the Sistine Chapel he went to a priest to enquire if in his painting of Adam if Adam should have a belly button. The discussions to resolve this inquire nearly started a civil war. To salve the problem Michael painted Adam with a fig leaf over where the belly button would have been and left other the rest of Adam exposed. This is not a new problem of the modern era. The question that I would ask is if G-d has changed the manner in which he creates mankind? If we believe G-d to be consistent then we can understand that an “unchanging G-d” created you and me just as he did Adam. The Traveler

We do not define mathematicians as someone that “believes” in math. A Mathematician is someone disciplined in mathematics and has mastered the art of applying the principles of math. We do not define a scientist as someone that believes in Science. A Scientist is someone disciplined in the constructs of science and has mastered the principles of applying the scientific method. We do not define a mechanic as someone that believes mechanical things can or ought to be fixed. A mechanic is someone that is able to apply mechanical principles they have learned and actually fix mechanical things. We can go on concerning doctors, professors, plumbers, electricians and a bevy of other descriptions of someone that has mastered various disciplines. To define a Christian based on what they believe is both false and a misrepresentation of the covenant followers of the Master Jesus Christ that were anciently known as Saints. Jesus Christ, the master craftsman of divine things, called his true followers, disciples. The use of the term disciples implies discipline. A Christian is at least an apprentice, actively engaged in the process of learning and applying the discipline defined by the Master Jesus Christ. Those that call themselves Christians without being proficient in the craft taught by Christ are imposters. The Traveler

Seldom in ancient scriptures did "first" have the singular meaning of the beginning in temporal order. Usually "first" meant of highest or most noble value. To say this scripture in Moses is unlike all other scripture and has no meaning beyond the temporal I believe is more apt to be misleading than accurate. The Traveler

I would like to point to one very glaring flaw that many religionist have in rejection scientific principles discovered from experiments and observations in evolution. When we observe myosis in a single living cell we will observe what scientist call differentiation as the cell begins to unwind its DNA and separate the cell into two parts. As this process continues the cell will eventually divide. When the division has taken place there will be two cells as different from each other as from the original cell. This is evolution and it takes place millions of times each day in every human. It is not just a theory but an observable event. Once the division is complete there are two possibilities, disassociation which results in the two new cells completely separating and going their separate ways. The second is integration; this is when the cells form symbiosis relationships with each other which will define a higher life form. From a single cell of a single kind or type will come enormous numbers of different KINDS of cells for bones, eyes, heart, lungs, skin and every other part of a human being. This process is evolution pure and simple and it exists and can be observed by anyone willing to see it for themselves. It is evolutionary adaptation through regeneration of life. There is no evidence that there ever has been any other method for genesis of life that exists so abundantly. Every known living thing springs from this architecture. To deny evolution is to deny new life and creation. To say the evolution process exist to this, the arbitrary point defined by men as that of the species and then no longer occurs, is to me a mockery of what little knowledge the Almighty grants us. How silly are we to assume that the Almighty deceives us in what he shows us in nature or that we can make up in our own ignorant minds to a better understanding of that which he openly displays to all that will look upon his wonders. I would like to ask a question from all those that reject evolution as a possibility to explain G-d’s creation of man. As I have explained – evolution is a process that is observable in the creation of every human to have been born. Please explain to me how you have come to believe that Adam and Eve are the only humans created by G-d or that Adam and Eve were created in some other manner different for all other humans. Do you believe that you were not created by G-d or that you were created by some other process? Please note that the scriptures speak of G-d creating man (meaning all of mankind) and there is no scripture that differentiates the creation of Adam and Eve from the rest of us. Are you a creation of G-d? Please indicate to me where in scripture you derived the notion that G-d has altered his methods of creation? The Traveler

I believe you are trying to split hairs. There is no difference between having your name withdrawn and being excommunicated - the process is the same, the result is the same and the repentance process afterwords would be the same. Other than that - if one request their name be withdrawn and their request was granted as apposed to being excommunicated - during the process it could be determined that excommunication is not necessary. The Traveler

As a scientist may I say something about scientific theory? Our entire number system and all our mathematics are based on number theory that includes such concepts as transitivity, trichotomy, and the binary operations of addition, subtraction, multiplication and division. Even though evolution is stated in science as a theory various forms of evolution is an observable fact of science. The transformation of a zygote into a baby is evolution demonstrated. Growth is evolution demonstrated. Ageing is evolution demonstrated. The primary problem with evolution for many religionists is that they believe each species were created separately by G-d from and that such creation is from nothing – evolution disproves their understanding of G-d. But the problem with such religious thinking is that when this kind of thinking is applied to the Holy Bible conflicts with fact are created. For example from the measurements of Noah’s Ark there would not be enough room to contain a mating pare of all the known species of worms. Without evolution the story of the Ark is but a fantasy. There are problems with many scientific theories. For example – the Whole Number theory has various problems with fractions so the Real Number Theory was invented. There are problems with Real Number Theory so Complex Numbers (sometimes called imaginary numbers) was invented. Just because there are problems with Whole Number Theory does not mean that we should begin teaching children Number Theory by skipping everything else to start with Complex Number Theory. The reason evolution is taught in science is because evolution is the best theory we have to study and perform experiments. There are no lab experiments to demonstrate Creation Theory like there are lab experiments to demonstrate evolution. Since science by definition must be demonstratable, Creation theory cannot be taught as a scientific subject. Just as a side note – the ancient Egyptian theory of creation that all things were created from a watery abyss can be demonstrated but the demonstration is hardly a trivial task and generally too difficult for even high school level science. The Traveler

I would change your defination just a little and say: Socialism is when the government, and not the private sector, is the primary means of controlling the means of production and distribution. The Traveler

I would grant to you that individuals and institutions have had influences that have altered “Christian” thought over the last 2000 years. What appears to me that you have missed in history is that the evolution of thought after say 800 AD appears (at least to me) to be more enlightened and beneficial to human society than what took place between 40 AD and 400 AD. For example the complete and utter destruction of the Alexandrian library appears to me to be one of the most devastatingly negative events of human history. And most of the enlightened and beneficial turn of things after 800 AD appear (at least to me) to be efforts to reengage thinking and behavior based on the remnants of understanding of what was considered the enlightened teachings of Christ dating back to pre 74 AD. The view of LDS concerning the Great Apostasy is that there was something that began about 40 AD (or shortly before) and reached a climax around 400 AD. Also; that this Great Apostasy was not an isolated event unique to a limited geographical area but was global in scope. Interesting this time frame corresponds to the decline in the “Classic Era” in the Americas. It is also interesting to me (concerning history) that all of the advances in our more recent society up to around 1830 were all previously known in ancient history. For example the knowledge of math and physics such as wave lengths of light and calculations of the movements of celestial bodies was as well known or better known in 2200 BC in ancient Egypt and 400 BC among the Mayan. Why did human society take a 2000+ year sabbatical in advancing human knowledge? The Traveler

One of the problems with what many call research is the biased source of their information. In reality all information is biased. If one takes the same critical look into those that provide what is called "questionable" information about church leaders one will find much more "questionable" information about them. Take for example Ed Decker and his organization. This is where the movie "The G-d Makers" comes from. Ed's private and family life is hardly the example of a Christ centered person. I have found that in most cases those that criticize the LDS leaders are less able to survive the same scrutiny they say is necessary of those they criticize. To me it appears to be the strain at a gnat and swallow a camel syndrome of the Pharisees is rampant among the critics of the LDS leaders. If LDS leaders are to be questioned because of their character flaws – should not those that disperse doubt based on flaws of character be just at questioned for their contribution based on their flaws? This is not just a problem of those that criticize the LDS. This appears to exist in most religious, social, political and other relationships where someone is fixed on criticizing another. The Traveler

Just for fun – I thought I would ask a question. I have attempted to live a life without getting tangled up in the things of the world. I do not drink nor do I encourage anyone else to drink. I believe it is morally wrong to drink. Something interesting is happening. I own several businesses and there are several other businesses that I am involved as a partner. One business that I am involved as a partner provides rare imported fruits to fine hotels, restraints and caterers. It has been discovered that one of the rare imported fruit juices is a great mixer with alcohol. But there is a problem. Because the wholesale of the juice is a concentrate bar tenders must be trained on how to use it. I have been asked to help put together a training program for bar tenders on how to use our juice. There are a number of fine LDS member involved either directly or indirectly with the alcohol business. Should I get involved with the bars and mixing of drinks or should I just pay someone else to do what I have a moral problem doing of doing myself? The Traveler

Again I question your “historical” perspective. Since you do not believe that anything is divinely inspired I am quite confused that you think you have a dog to tout in this “apostasy” show. However, I would submit that history does document change in the religious landscape of the Middle East beginning in the year 74 AD. Starting in 74 AD here was an extraordinary effort taking place in history to corrupt Jewish and Christian religious documents and alter the landscape concerning both forms of what was considered Jewish based ideology at the time. This is documented in the works of Josephus as well as the need to hide the Dead Sea Scrolls. Within 150 years of 74 AD we see efforts as far away as China that Jewish and Christian religious documents were being hidden to derail efforts there to destroy the text (the cave of the 1000 Buddha’s). We also have the destruction of the sacred text at the Alexandrian, Babylon and Persian libraries. Even the Koran documents a belief that Biblical texts had been corrupted as well as all the Jewish and Christian institutions. Anyway I find your responses interesting that you do not believe there was any social or political movement to change Jewish and Christian traditions during this time period that, contrary to your opinion, are so well documented in history. The Traveler

Rather interesting response - why have you assumed that President McKay was talking about a particular profession. I personally think you can extend his remarks to finding a good reliable and trusted friend by offering money. The Traveler

I think I shall add some more of my opinion. Most people think of sin as something that we do to others. I think this is a really bad mistake. The bad thing about sin is not what it does to others because the atonement of Christ completely overcomes everything that is associated with that problem. The problem with sin is what it does to our soul, especially when we do not repent or see need to repent. The other thing I find interesting is the lengths some go to in order to define "the unpardonable” sin. Do we, in such discussions forget that any sin for which we do not seek forgiveness will not be pardoned? Do we not realize that refusal to repent of any sin is the very essence of denying the atonement of Christ as testified by the Holy Ghost and therefore denying the Holy Ghost as well as Christ? One other thought from Alma – “Wickedness never was happiness.” One last thought – wisdom and the joy of wisdom is not in knowledge but in the dedication and effort in which we seek it. The Traveler

I think something said by president David O McKay applies: "All the money in the world will not buy a good woman, just a bad one." The Traveler

I believe your conclusion is flawed. First off the teachings of Jesus were universal but hardly diverse. He targeted specifically the Jews and there is a great deal of documentation that indicates that he refused on several occasions to diversify his teachings to target any other group. However, he did indicate to his apostles that they would be the ones to take his gospel or “orthodoxy” to every nation, kindred, tongue and people. I submit that the “exegetical fights” as you call them among the apostles were nothing more than the expression of the “gospel of Christ” which is the “orthodoxy” of Jesus by the various apostles to the particular kith or kin to which the apostle was assigned. Perhaps the most exaggerated “exegetical fights” among the apostles is epitomized in the writings of the apostle Paul that shepherded the gospel of Christ or “orthodoxy” in the transaction from a Jewish based view to a “Gentile” based view. All of which took place in cultures of antiquity. The greatest surprise to me in your postings is you complete inability to see a need for apostles and prophets to shepherd the gospel of Christ or the “orthodoxy” of Christ through that vast changes in views as ancient societies evolved to modern societies. The fact that a gospel of Christ or orthodoxy of Christ is unrecognizable to you is the essence of proof that indeed there was and is still a Great Apostasy. The Traveler

You have a most interesting view. The facts and conclusion you draw form in essence the reason the Pharisees and their tradition, they claimed to transcend 2000 years to Abraham, was opposed to Christ. Yet had it not been for the Pharisees and their tradition we would not have the Bible as we know it today. The Traveler