Ray

What does it mean to be "closeminded" about something? Should I be "open" to any and all thoughts? What if I came to know the truth about an issue. Should I think that what I know might be wrong? If I say that I know 2 + 2 = 4, should I be open to the possibility that that's not true? I think I am open until I know the truth about an issue, and from then on that issue is then closed. At least to me. If I didn't know, I would be open to some input, from someone who really thinks they might know. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- What does it mean to be "judgmental" about something? Should I not make any judgments about anything? What if I came to know the truth about an issue. Should I think that what I know might be wrong? If I say that I know 2 + 2 = 4, should I be "open" to the possibility that that's not true? I think I am open until I know the truth about an issue, and from then on that issue is then closed. At least to me. If I didn't know, I would be open to some input, from someone who really thinks they might know. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I think there is nothing at all wrong with being "closeminded" or "judgmental"... as long as I know what is true. If you think that is wrong and want to make a judgement against me... you can be open to any thought you want to think.

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Yes, that is pretty close to what I am thinking. Thank you for sharing your thoughts, pushka.But you still haven’t actually described the atonement. What is it... how do we get it… and how does it work… from your perspective? And btw, some people have stated that the atonement was accomplished in the garden of Gethsemane, and if that is true… and I do believe it is… then that’s “where” a “what” was accomplished. But “what” was accomplished? Our Lord didn’t die there. They’re not saying that’s where Jesus Christ died. So what are they talking about? What, exactly, was accomplished there? I’ll share a little more of what I think: I believe what they’re saying is that that is ”a place” where our Lord gave up His will to our Father. In that place our Lord’s will became “one” with our Father’s will… actually "swallowed up" in the will of our Father's will. But the fact that the atonement was accomplished in that place doesn't mean it wasn't accomplished before... or somewhere else. At any time, in any place, when our Lord’s will was our Father’s will, the atonement was in full active force. And never at any time did our Lord do His own will… our Lord’s will was always the will of our Father. And that’s the “how” He can help us become “one” with our Father… He knows our Father, so He can also teach us. And at any time when our will is the will of our Father... and also the will of our Lord… instead of what is really only our own will or the will of someone other than our Father... the atonement is accomplished... we are "one" with our Father... as our Lord is also “one” with our Father. It’s not something that happens once and then it's totally over… unless we’re no longer “at one” any more. And it's through our "faith" and "repentance" that our Lord can actually help us to be "at one” with God. And btw, the “why” our Lord came here to offer His “atoning sacrifice” was because that was the will of our Father. Our Father had declared that “someone” had to come to Earth to... ... accomplish the will of our Father. A plan was presented by our Father in heaven… ... and our Lord said He would do our Father’s will. And that's why our Lord is the perfect example... or analogy... for helping us understand the atonement. We must live… and actually die... if and when necessary… to accomplish the will of our Father. ... if we want to be "at one" with God.

Okay. You said it. Explain it.Why would you need to re-evaluate if the truth was still the truth? If it was true before, why wouldn't it still be true? Can you give me an example of what you're talking about? I'm anxiously awaiting your thoughts. :) ... if it helps, I'll explain what I meant. While sitting at a traffic light... if it turns green... I go... I don't need to go back to re-evaluate. It could even be red the next time I see it... but it was green... officer... it really was. :)

This is a great thread that I somehow missed before. Thank you for the good thoughts, everyone. I've been thinking more about this to know more than I know now, and in summary, this is what I've come up with: The "atonement" was accomplished in the garden of Gethsemane because that's where our Lord gave up His will. At that point what was His will "swallowed up" by our Father's will. At that point He was "one" with our Father. But the fact that the atonement was accomplished in the garden doesn't mean it wasn't accomplished before. At any time when His will was "swallowed up" by our Father's will, the "atonement" was in full active force. And at any time when we have the will of our Father... instead of our own will in mind... the atonement is accomplished... we are "one" with our Father... it's not something that happens once and then it's over. The "atonement" is something that can go on forever... as the will of our Father lives on. Our Savior still had to die... to actually offer His life for us... because that was the will of our Father. Someone had to come here and do the will of our Father... both to live... and to die... for our Father. His life was the perfect example for all of us... and by following His example, we become "one". The act of "repentance" only gets us back on track when we stray from the will of our Father.

I want to learn another language. I want to learn computer language. I want to learn how to talk to all computers. That's what I am doing on the internet now. And when you talk you are going through a translator. But I'm not satisfied with my current level of understanding. There is more I could say than you know.

I particularly like this thought: And btw, it's interesting to note that if truth is the only reason for a persons' commitment to his/her philosophy, then it doesn't need to be re-evaluated from time to time to be sure it is still true. The truth is always true, and it's useful to know that... always. But the fact that some did things in the past at some time doesn't mean they need to do that always. ... or that we need to do that today. ... so it helps to know what things we should do at all times, and for that we need to know what is useful... truly useful.. to be for the best use... today. :)

Let me try to take a non-partisan approach to these thoughts and see if I can see any good. 1: Allow Mexicans (or people who now currently reside in a country called Mexico) to become American citizens? Sure, I'd vote for allowing that. 2: Allow America to annex (legally declare) Mexico as part of the United States of America? Wars have been fought for much less... if you're talking about taking their land away from them. Allow people from Mexico to become American citizens without having to pass some sort of test? Nope... I won't vote for that... although I am for making the test a lot easier. Just ask them if they will say "Yes" to our laws... raising their hands... and making an oath... to obey them. It really doesn't matter what they "know" about America, as long as they obey all the laws they know about. The questions like: "Who was the first President of America" does nothing to make good American citizens.

That's one reason it is good to talk to our bishops... our own bishops... when we want to know what our status is in this Church.Only my bishop can give me my temple recommend... and what other bishops think really doesn't matter. And, of course, my stake president can overrule my bishop's judgment... just as my Lord can overrule all of them... but our Lord does work through His appointed representatives, so what they think is really all that really matters. :)

Are you asking if you should pay the Lord before you pay other creditors? I would say, Yes. What would you say? And btw, keep in mind the Lord only asks for 10%. You'd still have 90% to pay other creditors... and you would eventually be paid up in full.

Yes, a person who is not married may receive their temple endowments... there are guidelines about when to receive them... but GB-UK was asking about being sealed to a spouse... and there are other guidelines for that ordinance.

We're old... (dad-nab-it - edited slightly)... leave us alone! :)

I believe I can fly... Answer: ... THE DAILY DOUBLE ... this character was in this animated movie, and he sang these words for a laugh. :) And btw, since we're talking about technology... what do you think of the latest animation techniques. Cool, huh? ... and why do they say that these movies are for kids?... they're defintely targeted at adults... ... how is a kid supposed to get all those jokes?... about things they have never heard of? I like most of them. :)

Maybe they're not thinking hard enough about where they want to go. :)

Maybe that's the reason it hasn't worked yet. :) To get where they're going they have to think of where they want to go... while trying to keep their mind in the present. If they look at what's around them and then think of what they're seeing they'd soon be going off in that direction. Hmmm. Yet another thought that also applies to the gospel and our return to our Father in heaven. :)

Joseph Smith once said something about what he thought if all of us (LDS) were wrong. How bad would hell be with all of us there? Think about it. How bad would it be? How bad is it now while we're living in this world? I would still choose to become a member of this Church. Can you think of anyone else that you'd rather be with that you're not already with right now? I don't live in the future. I live in the present. And in the present, God is with me right now. And I would do nothing if I thought God would leave me... and never take me back to be with Him. When I make a mistake... and I know it's a mistake... I repent, as soon as I can. And if I ever found out the Church was truly wrong, I would leave it to be with Him then. And I know other LDS who really feel the same way. We are all LDS because we don't know any better, and if we know better, we won't be LDS. But who is any better than LDS, collectively? If I ever found out I would then join with them. But as of now, I don't know any better.

That was very good counsel from Rosewood. Try looking at it this way, too: If you were to divorce your spouse because they weren't a member of the Church, you would pretty much be saying: "I give up." "You're not a member now, and I don't know if you'll ever be, and I think I have waited long enough." "I'm going on without you" "I already gave you your chance" "You're really not worth more of my time" Understand now? Of course you can't both be in the Celestial kingdom if you both are not judged to be worthy, but you are not the one who will be making that judgment... you can't make your wife go, if she doesn't want to go... or if she doesn't do (whatever she needs to do) to be worthy of the Celestial kingdom. Bottom line: ... don't ever give up on the people you love... ... as much as you can, keep trying... ... do all that you can do for yourself and for others... ... and remember, He will be the final judge.

Oh... then the "thing" I am using right now is probably just a tutorial, then And btw, for those who don't know... ...his "older brother" is also his Father... just like some other brothers are Fathers... and the Son of our Father who is really the Father of all. Right, Traveler?

Have any of you seen a movie called "Second-hand Lions"? There's a little talk I like to give to every man... when I think they are ready to hear it. That's not an exact quote, but it's conveyed in the movie. Here are some more thoughts from that movie that I like: "Sometimes the things that may or may not be true are the things a man needs to believe in the most. That people are basically good. That honor, virtue, and courage mean everything; that money and power mean nothing. That good always triumphs over evil. That true love never dies. Doesn't matter if they're true or not. A man should believe in those things anyway. Because they are the things worth believing in." And btw, I've heard some more of the talk. :)

The stone is called the Urim and Thummim - you haven't got your's yet? They are priceless and cannot be purchased with either Master Card are Visa. The Traveler Heh. I'm not saying I have. I'm not saying I haven't. If you want one, please just get (or use) your own, Traveler. :) And don't leave home without it... ... the device or the card you should carry. :)

Virtual keyboard... A good size screen you can fold up and carry around in your shirt pocket... What would be better?... a virtual library of true knowledge. You carry a small "device"... it's more like you wear it... and ask about something you want to know. The "device" actually hears you... your thoughts, not just words... and the knowledge is "displayed" so you can "see" it. There is actually a movie that catches on to this idea... starring Michael Douglas, based in Seattle, I don't remember the name of it... and they envisioned walking around while inside the virtual library, opening drawers to see "words" and "images". And it even included a help assistant (they portrayed it as a little flying angel-dude) you could talk with to ask questions to find knowledge... about whatever it was, or is, you want to know. Some prophets talk about this too... the concept I am thinking of... as something Celestial inhabitants now and/or will actually have. Each one with their own "stone" and their name written on "it"... and with this "stone" they can learn everything that God knows. I wonder how long it will be before everybody here can get one of these things for themselves?

Tommy first asked what it meant to be temple worthy. I later got into "perception". Kinda like... --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- What does it mean to be temple worthy? What do you think it should mean? How do you know that is what it should mean? How do you know you know truth? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ...kinda like that. And btw, some may say we have drifted from the topic... but does that mean that we really have? Being worthy of the temple means a lot of things to me... and for one thing it means we see the truth. ... and ... pssst ... don't expect everyone to agree on that thought.

As of now, I'm still not very comfortable using that term... no offense at all intended towards you.It just seems, to me, to be a tad disrespectful... ironic as that may seem, or sound. To me, it's kinda like having someone put their hand on me, when they're talking to me, being friendly. I don't mind being hugged and giving hugs to others... even men... but there's just something about that I don't like. It's probably related to my association of that action... what I think... not what you think about it. I would like to think you are really my friend, though. It's just the term... good buddy... I don't like. ... at least at this point that is what I am thinking. Maybe with more thought I will think something else. :)

To sum it up, again, for you: You can know God if you really want to... because God truly wants you to know God. Really. God has said so. Do you believe God has said that you can? ... you won't say No if you believe you can know God. ... and if you're thinking you really can't, don't believe it. Knock, and the door will be opened. Seek, and you will find. Do you know God did say that... if you don't, do you want to know? Then ask God... and keep asking, until God answers. Forget about what others say if they say you can't know God. They really do not know what they're talking about. I know you can know God, because God said you can. God has said we all can, if we want to. End of story.

I can hear you on that, good buddy.And btw, do you mind that I'm using that phrase? ... the term "good buddy", I mean? I'm not accustomed to using it, but it seems to be a nice term. I know some other people who say that. CrimsonKairos said that to me... and the Skipper said that to Gilligan... so it must be okay. Right... good buddy? I guess it all depends on what I'm comfortable with. ... or maybe it depends on what you are comfortable with. I think that is why I asked you if you mind me saying that. I'll stop saying that, if I know you don't like it. But to know you don't like it, I need for you to tell me. At least that's what I think about that. But will you tell me what you think if you think I might get offended by the fact that you don't like that term? Maybe you'll think that I will, and you never would tell me, unless I told you it was okay to tell me. But then maybe you'd be offended that I told you it was "okay" to tell me what you were really thinking. You might think "Of course it's okay for me to say what I think. Why do you need to say it's okay"? And then there we're both offended because I simply said "good buddy", and I never meant to cause an offense. Bewildering, isn't it? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Was I over-analyzing, just then? I'm simply trying to be considerate... to understand how you feel about something. ... and I don't think I can think too much about that. Hmm. Can I think too much about anything? I think I'll think about that for a little bit longer. And then I'll think of some other things later. But I may come back to it and think some more about it later. I'll probably stop when I'm really sure I know the truth. But, then again, will I really stop thinking or analyzing what I know? What does it mean to "over-analyze" something? I think I'll also think some more about that. :)