Misshalfway

Thinking a lot about knowing (like the way we all talk about knowing truth) and the inherent ambiguity that accompanies the Telestial/veiled state of things down here on earth. To me it feels like humility combining with the knowing and not knowing parts. What are your thoughts? How do you grapple with it? Do you ever think we are afraid of not knowing? Like being afraid of doubt? I mean, is doubting part of the process of getting to the knowing, or a stumbling block/character flaw sort of deal? And....just for fun I'll quote a line from the musical "Wicked" that makes me laugh and illustrates a sister point. In the song "Wonderful", the Wizard sings.... "there are precious few at ease with moral ambiguities, and so we act as though they don't exist!" :)

Not sure about the second paragraph here, but I like the idea in the first. Makes me think of BofM scriptures that talk about being perfect in Christ -- which is a concept I'm am still trying to comprehend. "Allowing" is an important idea. Maybe it's like submission to the will of God or perhaps surrendering to the refining processes of God. Easy stuff to talk about. Going through is a whole other layer of knowing that I'm not sure one can share with another.

I love what Vort said about never being embarrassed. My experience with the gospel is that it's like peeling an onion. I find myself learning new layers of the most basic ideas or relearning things as I grow. And I've been a member since God was a boy. Be where you are at in the process and be perfectly ok with it. You'll get all broken in soon enough.

I thought they were old men at family parties.

I don't think there are any easy answers to a question like this. I believe that it really depends on what is happening inside the marriage. And there is more than one kind of separation. Some file for a legal separation. Other's just live apart for a time or even do an in house separation. I personally believe that some space can be healthy given the climate inside the marriage and the probability that things will get better. If there is unresolved addiction or infidelity, or criminal issues, separation could make sense. It can give a person a new sense of self, boundaries, and healing. I like this solution for someone who doesn't want divorce but is at last resort stage. Sometimes getting out IS the right thing to do. And one can feel ok about leaving. Like my friend whose husband was a sex offender. But for the run of the mill disconnection issues, I like the idea of resolving issues through therapy and self help. I think if people can take responsibility for their respective roles in the disconnection and learn better ways to interact emotionally, that there is a lot of hope. Empathy, validation, and forgiveness are really healing concepts. I really like Emotionally Focused Therapy and the writings of John Gottman and Susan Johnson. They have some great stuff to say about healing disconnection and creating really satisfying relationships, even after painful disruptions.

Yup. Back from the dead. :)

I prefer to focus on my relationship with God. When I do, it stretches my faith because that kind of broader/deeper communication demands more out of me. I think the faith is important because sometimes God is clear in his communications and other times he fades out to allow effectual struggles. Faith helps me in both the feast and famine parts of the journey. And I love adding the scriptures to the conversation too. Fun to talk with God about doctrine. :)

Don't know if anyone is following this thread anymore.... but I'll add this idea. It could be that the "dead" feelings are a result of an addiction cycle. Perhaps the OP could study a little about how the guilt that follows acting out is actually a destructive kind that leads to more acting out. It helps to think differently about ones behavior and ones self. Compassion and self love produce more change support than shame and self punishment. And sometimes we get confused about what repentance is when stuck in these types of self defeating cycles. Unwinding that confusion is liberating and healing. Best wishes to the OP.

I like this question. My answer is BOTH. :) I guess I see it as one of those paradoxical kinds of things. Living the basics of the gospel does become easier and so does doing the will of the Lord when one has decided to plug in to the spiritual/individual promptings. But it is also my experience that God keeps us challenged and comfort zones don't last long. I think that living inside the paradox is the true sweet spot of spiritual living.

I don't know if I am pegging you right. I may be way off. I don't know where you are in the repentance process. How would I? So, cut us a little slack here. Because we don't know you or really what you do in your spare time, all we can do is post from our experience. And I know you posted to have someone to talk to. Forgive that I didn't focus on that. Sexual issues like this all behave the same regardless of the severity. Can you see that? Is some of it normal? yes. Is some of it understandable? Yes. Do I think Gwen is right about exaggerations? Yes. The only thing that seems to be a problem is that you can't stop and what you have tried didn't work. So, that is why I post the way I do. If you are at the end of your repentance process and all is fine, what are we all doing here? Beyond that, if anyone thinks that biking or other like activities is the soul solve for this, they really don't understand the problem. If it did, heck I'd open a bike shop and I'd be the richest woman in the world.

He asked for opinions and advise. If anything any of us offers is incorrect, or untrue, he can take it or leave it. I absolutely agree with what you are saying gwen with regards to Satan and making things appear worse. Especially with this case. As for the assumptions of what i think i see, point well taken.

I am pointing out your thinking errors and you don't like it. I''m not trying to be mean, I promise. _____________________________ When people get into compulsive trouble sometimes they fail to see the full extent of the problem....the problem that keeps them trapped. They may assume that the consequences are only religious ones or moral ones. Like with you, the masturbation problem is interfering with your ability to obey the law of chastity. Often bishops approach the problem from this angle. Problem is, many men battle and repent over and over but can't lick it. Why is that? But Satan is craftier than just putting your salvation in jeopardy. He starts messing with your thinking....your emotions....your spiritual views. He gets men like you to start thinking in terms of denial, justifications, rationalizations, etc. The denial and justifications start acting like weeds in a garden. Left unchecked, they will take over the whole garden. Twopoints, you ARE a good man. Your worth is not in question here. Your efforts are not in question here. I am trying to invite you to look at your thinking. To start becoming aware of how Satan may be getting into your headspace. Honesty, and I know you don't like it, but you do post with evidence that this is happening to you. You justify and make excuses. The fact that you don't like it....that fact that you don't see what I am seeing....MIGHT be a clue. What I am really trying to say is that going to a therapist is a good thing. It will help. And its a heckuva lot better than posting on a message board. And it won't make you a bad guy or "one of those pervert kinds" if you go. It makes you a man of courage who is humble enough to admit he needs help. And it means you love yourself, your future wife, and your God that you are willing to do what it takes to stop the problem before you get yourself in real trouble. Or you can go on believing that you can do it alone and fooling yourself by saying "I'm posting as a public service." You aren't the first who made that mistake. At that point, my best advise will be "Good Luck."

Why do I suddenly feel like I need a drink? That or a sling shot.

So.....you'll pour out your soul and publish for thousands of people that you like to jack off after work, and you'll struggle like crazy and feel awful about it and make excuses and justifications.......but you won't go talk to one trusted person who won't ever tell your story, won't ever shame you or embarrass you and who might actually help you beat it in a few short weeks? Interesting. Did you plan on doing what your doing now? Might wanna look closer at your rationalizations. Ah yes! White knuckling. Except, isn't the reason you posted in the first place because this strategy wasn't working? And you wonder why you can't just relax and enjoy life......

Sounds like you know yourself pretty well. I like your ideas about respecting satan and proper sorrow for sin. Truthfully, only you know if you're addicted or not. Labels are only helpful if they explain what is really going on. I am not convinced you are addicted. I do think that you are stuck in compulsive cycles. If you aren't careful, it could turn into something worse....but you sound like you see that too. Positive thinking is awesome. We all need our feel goods. But it doesn't break addictive cycles. Go get some therapy. Do a good 12 sessions with a therapist. See what you learn about yourself through that process. Breaking cycles takes a heckuva lot more than playing pretty music and buying a bike.

(I can't do the quote thing. So forgive me.) First of all, I have to remember that you are 22 and not 40. LOL. Heck, learning about sexuality is sometimes a life long thing. I apologize for taking you to mock 4. Second of all, this is a message board. We don't have all the answers for you. We can't fix this. And we certainly don't know you. I think the dialogue you want to have and that you need to have should be with a counselor who is an expert at sexual compulsions. Beyond that, take what posters offer for what it's worth. We are innocent at first. And then, when we are ready, we start see the light one bulb at a time. Knowing about....then knowing from first hand experience. Of course, context is everything. It's not wrong to imagine it. Heck, when you are engaged I hope you are imagining it so you know what you're doing. It's not wrong to know physiology or the dynamics of sexual behaviors. It's not wrong to know the stages to orgasm or even to understand the differences between the sexes. Ignorance helps no one. And its probably the source many reckless and sinful decisions. Information is power. Information, images, thought processes become sinful when one ruminates to a place of lust. When one uses another person, a picture, a memory, or a thought to get sexual gratification, corruption happens. You know this. You've done it. And you know that it doesn't produce the best fruit. This IS what the church means when it says that sex is sacred. That doesn't mean there needs to be any taboo's. Correct principles and proper boundaries are all that is needed. It's a lot like the temple worship. We don't talk about what goes on there, but goodness the knowledge!!! I am suggesting that part of becoming healthy, regardless of whether or not one is sexually active, is removing the taboos from our minds. Taboos = shame. Shame accompanies sex because Satan put it there. Not God. Get rid of the shame and you get healthier and even more spiritual. And you gain more control. Sexuality is, believe it or not, a very spiritual process. Yes, I think fathers should tell "how it all goes down." We parents WANT to talk to our kids. We NEED to talk to our kids. Society sells a load of lies about sexuality and sometimes he sells it from the pulpit. And I'd bet cash you are believing some of them. And frankly, religious people don't talk about this subject enough or they don't know the truth so they don't teach the truth. Again, too much shame and fear. Just the other day, someone asked me if it was ok to take your garments off to have sex. I was like "Are you serious?" Temptation sucks. THIS temptation sucks. And YES, everyone deals with this.. all the pieces and parts. But look, you CAN'T and WON'T bridle your passions without temptation. It's just part of the deal with earth life. And its part of the plan of salvation. So, (I hate to sound like an older sister here) but quit whining about it. Get mad about it if you need to, but then accept, stop making excuses, and move forward. This kind of knowledge comes with time and it helps people like you who are using sex inappropriately because you need to reconstruct or maybe reestablish your relationship with sex. Consider this: Is it sinful for a baby to examine his private parts? (You prolly haven't had kids, but they all do). And they figure out that the little guy changes into a bigger guy. Is that wrong or good? For a person who is struggling with addiction in any degree, teasing out the good from the yuck is part of recovery. Well, we feel how we feel. The numbness etc.....that's sounds pretty typical of addiction stuff. And you don't want that. Feeling your feelings is a sign of health. You gotta recover some of those things, it sounds. The Lord will teach you the truth about yourself and that can dictate how you feel. I love addiction recovery for that reason. I for one see no use for blame. It's shame's evil twin. Contemplate personal responsibility instead. I'm sorry this is happening. I honestly believe that Satan is specifically targeting the best of LDS men. Can you think of a better way to beat such incredible souls? And I also think that God is using this struggle, inspite of Satan, to make us all better.

This is a sometimes confusing and highly emotional issue. There are many questions without clarifying answers. One thing I will say is that I felt the spirit deep inside me when I heard Packer speak. Out of all the articles and books and conversations I have had on this issue, NOTHING...not one argument or intellectually articulate answer has felt like that! And no matter the topic, I am grateful that this church teaches that we ALWAYS have a choice. That is more important than any biological configuration.

Instead of looking in the mirror and saying "I'm an addict", I'd rather he said, "That's not like me."

Ram is nice. Ram is good. Don't change your name Ram. I just learned to spell it.

Welcome Dylan. Hope you feel welcomed into the church. I'm not sure the struggles stop once you get firmly planted into the church, but I guess that's the way its suppose to be. If we are going to progress, we are rarely going to stay in comfort zones. :) Have a happy.

All I can say is that my heart breaks for the Climenti family. The issue of teen suicide is huge and frankly I wish the church would add some time to address this at conference along side all the rest. But doctrinally, what can the church do? The doctrine is what it is. And I doubt very highly that any of it will change. This isn't racism or bigotry. This is belief about the nature of the spirit and the flesh. And beyond all the complexity of biology, it's about the will of God. It gets confusing when parents are trying to teach their children about what they think are correct principles and then gay people hear that. It feels like we are labeling them as sinful and I can see how that hurts. On the other hand, I'm not sure what else LDS parents are suppose to do in such morally confusing times. Beyond that I think the church has a long way to go in loving and accepting people who believe and choose differently than we do. Do I think we are guilty of everything we have been accused of on this issue? No. But I do think we struggle with being judgmental and I think we sometimes can be very hurtful with our silent exclusionary methods.

I think I am with Gwen on this. I feel very hesitant to use the word "addiction" with you. And I think that perhaps the reason you aren't beating this thing may lie in how you are choosing to address it. Religious guys who care very much about doing the right thing struggle particularly with this stuff and are perhaps more vulnerable to compulsive cycles than guys who don't think its wrong. And sometimes in the church, we tend to rake ourselves over the coals if we even hint at having a sexual feelings. I think somewhere in our heads we get this idea that sexual feelings = sin. We get mixed messages about what it means to be chaste. And then we wonder why some of us struggle. My personal opinion is that we are so afraid of sexual sin, that we forbid instead of educate. I also think that very few of us understand what healthy righteous sexuality looks like in the first place. I don't know if this is helpful or not, but I wonder if you need to look at how you deal with your sexuality separately from your indulgences. Have you given yourself permission to be a sexual being? You are a sexual being, after all. All of us are. It's not like we are going to stop being so. And like Gwen said, you are at the peak of your sexual development. Can you tell the difference between normal sexual cycles and development, healthy and necessary curiosity, and sinful ruminations? And then secondly, do you slip into the kind of condemning self talk that shames and punishes when you make a mistake assuming that you "deserve" it? Remember that these ruthless tactics are also part of Satan's trap to take you down. It's a calculated addition because he knows it will help to add another link to the chain. When we sin sexually, the by product is shame. When we indulge in the shame and punish ourselves in our minds, we further entrench the sexual compulsion and establish compulsive cycles. And the only way to reverse the process is to stop shaming ourselves for being sexual and curious, and treat ourselves better when we make mistakes. If we can do those things, we beat Satan at his game and we interrupt the habitual cycles and we start doing better. Does any of this make sense to you?

This thread is a cliffhanger. We don't know if he asked her out! We don't know if she's pining away for him. We don't know if he was too late because his best friend got to her first. We don't know if he ran out of gas trying to drive the 1000 miles to her house. For gosh sakes! I need book II!!!

I think you are just a wannabe Abraham. Just cuz he got his name changed.....

What if God DID punish him? What would that look like? be like? Would it be the act of a ruthless, justice-crazed dictator? Or the intervention of a kind and perfect parent? When I was younger, like 14 or so, I used to think of God this way. When I got my P-blessing, I was pretty sure God would condemn me. Why? I don't know. Now I see God so very differently. He feels more like a perfect parent....or someone I absolutely trust to deal with me in what ever way I may need. And I have struggled with spiritual things and even uncharacteristically pushed the boundaries. I can't recall any time where God was "punishing" me. Rather he gave me room to struggle. And yeah, I have had pain. But even the pain and the justice filled parts were filled with grace and patience. I don't know. Trust God. Trust Him with your son. And, trust your son too. Teach him the truth...and tell him that you trust him to find his way.