Why Did Abraham Lie to Pharaoh? [FAIR]

[Hemidakota]

Meridian Magazine :: Answers to Critics: Why Did Abraham Lie to Pharaoh?

Snippet:

Critics say that the account of Abraham lying to the pharaoh about Sarah shows the Book of Abraham to be false, since God would not tell anyone to disobey the 10 Commandments.

[Heavenguard]

May I ask where one would find the book of Abraham?

I'm assuming the lie that Abraham told to Pharaoh about Sarah is that she was his sister? If that is so, he was simply scared for his life. Gen 13: 12 & 13 (NIV) When the Egyptians see you, they will say 'This is his wife.' Then they will kill me but will let you live. Say you are my sister, so that I will be treated well for your sake and my life will be spared because of you."

I don't know what the book of Abraham says, but from that, the lie was not by God's instruction, but rather Abraham (then Abram)'s own fear.

If it's another lie... then... Iunno, I'd have to read that book of Abraham for myself first >_>

But I do agree that some things are circumstantial. God demands obedience to HIM more than he does obedience to his specific rules. Rahab lied to the soldiers and hid the Israelites in her home, and so God spared her and her family because of her obedience to his will.

Edited June 17, 2008 by Heavenguard

[Hemidakota]

Abraham 2:21-25, it reads:

21 And I, Abraham, journeyed, going on still towards the south; and there was a continuation of a famine in the land; and I, Abraham, concluded to go down into Egypt, to sojourn there, for the famine became very grievous.

22 And it came to pass when I was come near to enter into Egypt, the Lord said unto me: Behold, Sarai, thy wife, is a very fair woman to look upon;

23 Therefore it shall come to pass, when the Egyptians shall see her, they will say—She is his wife; and they will kill you, but they will save her alive; therefore see that ye do on this wise:

24 Let her say unto the Egyptians, she is thy sister, and thy soul shall live.

25 And it came to pass that I, Abraham, told Sarai, my wife, all that the Lord had said unto me—Therefore say unto them, I pray thee, thou art my sister, that it may be well with me for thy sake, and my soul shall live because of thee.

Genesis 12:11-13 Say . . . thou art my sister: that it may be well with me for thy sake

Here is my take, Abram and Sarai told no untruth in Egypt in identifying Sarai by her blood relationship rather than her marital relationship with Abram. Because they were descended from a common ancestor, Terah (Gen. 11:26-32; 20:12; Abr. 2:23-25), according to their custom she could be called Abram's sister, just as Lot could be called his brother (Gen. 13:8; 14:14, 16). No special terms were used for such relationships as niece, nephew, cousin, granddaughter, grandson. Ancestors could be called "father" or "mother," and descendants could be called "daughters" or "sons" (as in Luke 3:8; John 8:39).

Abram was guided by the Lord to use this strategy (Abr. 2:22-25); its other purpose may have been to create an opportunity for Abram to teach the Egyptian leaders (Abr. 3:15). Edited June 18, 2008 by Hemidakota

[Heavenguard]

If I'm not mistaken, I believe Abram and Sarai were half-siblings.

[prisonchaplain]

I really struggle with this. Abraham lied, but I've never thought this was by God's direction. Rather, that he lacked faith in God's protection, and chose to tell "half-truths." Hemi, you don't see that the bloodline argument would be a half-truth, because Abraham knew full well they would believe that she was his sister, and NOT his wife? Further, it appears to me that Abraham was willing for his wife to be violated to save his life. IMHO, this shows the veracity of the Bible, because the warts and sometimes faithlessness of God's prophets are shown.

[Hemidakota]

Same thing happens again in Genesis 20:12.

9 Then Abimelech called Abraham, and said unto him, What hast thou done unto us? and what have I offended thee, that thou hast brought on me and on my kingdom a great sin? thou hast done deeds unto me that ought not to be done.

10 And Abimelech said unto Abraham, What sawest thou, that thou hast done this thing?

11 And Abraham said, Because I thought, Surely the fear of God is not in this place; and they will slay me for my wife's sake.

12 And yet indeed she is my sister; she is the daughter of my father, but not the daughter of my mother; and she became my wife.

[Hemidakota]

I really struggle with this. Abraham lied, but I've never thought this was by God's direction. Rather, that he lacked faith in God's protection, and chose to tell "half-truths." Hemi, you don't see that the bloodline argument would be a half-truth, because Abraham knew full well they would believe that she was his sister, and NOT his wife? Further, it appears to me that Abraham was willing for his wife to be violated to save his life. IMHO, this shows the veracity of the Bible, because the warts and sometimes faithlessness of God's prophets are shown.

Another Look at a Complex Situation. So, where does that leave us? Although these hypotheses have some merit in adding to our understanding of a difficult passage of scripture, they fail to take into account the insights provided by the book of Abraham and the Genesis Apocryphon. Both of these texts demonstrate that Abraham acted not merely out of an interest in self-preservation but in obedience to a divine command. Thus we read in Abraham 2:22-25: "And it came to pass when I was come near to enter into Egypt, the Lord said unto me: Behold, Sarai, thy wife, is a very fair woman to look upon; Therefore it shall come to pass, when the Egyptians shall see her, they will say She is his wife; and they will kill you, but they will save her alive; therefore see that ye do on this wise: Let her say unto the Egyptians, she is thy sister, and thy soul shall live. And it came to pass that I, Abraham, told Sarai, my wife, all that the Lord had said unto me—Therefore say unto them, I pray thee, thou art my sister, that it may be well with me for thy sake, and my soul shall live because of thee."

Similarly, the author of the Genesis Apocryphon, which differs slightly in detail from the book of Abraham, explains the nature of Abraham's request at great length. When Abraham traveled to Egypt, he was given instructions in a dream. It is not explicitly stated, but the implication is that the dream came from God. "And I, Abram, had a dream in the night of my entering into the land of Egypt and I saw in my dream [that there wa]s a cedar, and a date-palm (which was) [very beautif]ul; and some men came intending to cut down and uproot the cedar, but leave the date-palm by itself. Now the date-palm cried out and said, 'Do not cut down the cedar, for cursed (?) is he who fells (?) the [cedar].' So the cedar was spared with the help of the date-palm, and [it was] not [cut down]" (1QapGen XIX:14-17). 12

When Abraham awoke, he described the dream to Sarah. Although the text is somewhat damaged at this point, it is clear that Abraham identified himself with the cedar and Sarah with the date-palm. Therefore, he asked Sarah to identify herself as his sister.

But why did God require Abraham to make such a request? In discussing this question, Stephen Ricks shows that though this commandment might seem strange, obedience is the primary concern. 13 There are numerous passages throughout the scriptures in which God commands people to perform "strange" acts. God's commandment to Nephi to slay Laban was obviously difficult for Nephi, who wrote: "I was constrained by the Spirit that I should kill Laban; but I said in my heart: Never at any time have I shed the blood of a man. And I shrunk and would that I might not slay him" (1 Nephi 4:10). 14 Also, when Abraham returned to the land of Canaan he was given another difficult commandment—to sacrifice his son Isaac (see Genesis 22:1-2). Given the circumstances in Abraham's own life, in which Abraham faced a sacrificial death himself (see Abraham 1:12-15), this commandment must certainly have appeared contradictory to him. On another occasion, God commanded the apostle Peter in a dream to eat meat that was unclean under the law of Moses (see Acts 10:9-18). Each of those commandments seems to violate one of God's laws. Each one placed the individual in a position where he had either to follow a preexisting law or follow God's current command. The Prophet Joseph Smith taught us: "That which is wrong under one circumstance, may be, and often is, right under another. God said, 'Thou shalt not kill;' at another time He said, 'Thou shalt utterly destroy.' This is the principle on which the government of heaven is conducted by revelation adapted to the circumstances in which the children of the kingdom are placed. Whatever God requires is right, no matter what it is, although we may not see the reason thereof till long after the events transpire."

As we read of the commandments given to Nephi, Abraham, and Peter, in each case the scriptures go on to show us the reason for God's actions. For Nephi, it was so that his people would have the scriptures to remind them of their covenants (in contrast to the people of Zarahemla, who had no records). The scriptures also tell us that Abraham was asked to sacrifice Isaac as a test of his obedience and as a foreshadowing of the eventual sacrifice of God's Only Begotten Son. And the commandment given to Peter was to let him know that God was opening the way for the Gentiles to hear the gospel. But the scriptural account is silent about God's instruction concerning Sarah. We must turn instead to the Genesis Apocryphon to provide us with some insight concerning God's possible motivation.

Reference: Gaye Strathearn is a Ph.D. student in New Testament studies at Claremont Graduate School.

[hordak]

Abraham 2:21-25, it reads:

Genesis 12:11-13 Say . . . thou art my sister: that it may be well with me for thy sake

Here is my take, Abram and Sarai told no untruth in Egypt in identifying Sarai by her blood relationship rather than her marital relationship with Abram. Because they were descended from a common ancestor, Terah (Gen. 11:26-32; 20:12; Abr. 2:23-25), according to their custom she could be called Abram's sister, just as Lot could be called his brother (Gen. 13:8; 14:14, 16). No special terms were used for such relationships as niece, nephew, cousin, granddaughter, grandson. Ancestors could be called "father" or "mother," and descendants could be called "daughters" or "sons" (as in Luke 3:8; John 8:39).

Abram was guided by the Lord to use this strategy (Abr. 2:22-25); its other purpose may have been to create an opportunity for Abram to teach the Egyptian leaders (Abr. 3:15).

I used to do that all the time as a teen. I would tell my mom i was out with my friends and leave out the drinking or vandalizing part so technically i wasn't lying because it was with my friends.:)

But in all seriousness wasn't this prior to the 10 commandments? If he did it of his own accord before the law then is it a problem? And if it was commanded by God is it really out of character for him to bend the rules on occasion?

[prisonchaplain]

This is one of those cases where either message could be true. Either Abraham obeyed a strange command, or he used human cunning rather than faith. If it was the former, as the Book of Abraham seems to indicate, then we'd all agree (I assume) that such commands are rare, and do not justify such tactics in general.

[Vanhin]

This is one of those cases where either message could be true. Either Abraham obeyed a strange command, or he used human cunning rather than faith. If it was the former, as the Book of Abraham seems to indicate, then we'd all agree (I assume) that such commands are rare, and do not justify such tactics in general.

Exactly. And assuming the account in the Book of Abraham is true, then we can safely assume that God did not violate any principle of righteousness in commanding Abraham, or in any other thing that he has commanded his people to do, that may be hard for us to understand at any given time.

Regards,

Vanhin

[bert10]

Hi Heavenguard.

The Christian can be forgiven for interpreting that part of the bible as a lie told by Abraham...For the law is where much is given much is required..since they have the lesser part of the gospel...Less shall be required of these.

But LDS have no excuses before the Lord....we are all brothers and Sisters Literally both spiritually and of the flesh.

For we all Sons and Daughters Spiritually from the FATHER and here on the Earth...we are all brothers and sisters from one set of parents..... Adam and Eve.

So Abraham Literally told the truth. Sarah is both...His sister and His wife.

Peace be unto you

bert10

May I ask where one would find the book of Abraham?

I'm assuming the lie that Abraham told to Pharaoh about Sarah is that she was his sister? If that is so, he was simply scared for his life. Gen 13: 12 & 13 (NIV) When the Egyptians see you, they will say 'This is his wife.' Then they will kill me but will let you live. Say you are my sister, so that I will be treated well for your sake and my life will be spared because of you."

I don't know what the book of Abraham says, but from that, the lie was not by God's instruction, but rather Abraham (then Abram)'s own fear.

If it's another lie... then... Iunno, I'd have to read that book of Abraham for myself first >_>

But I do agree that some things are circumstantial. God demands obedience to HIM more than he does obedience to his specific rules. Rahab lied to the soldiers and hid the Israelites in her home, and so God spared her and her family because of her obedience to his will.

[prisonchaplain]

I still find the rational that Sarai was his half sister to be a half truth. God did not tell Abraham to say that because it was literally, narrowly true, and thus a justified misleading. If indeed it was God, then we may never know why, until he tells us.

[Traveler]

Meridian Magazine :: Answers to Critics: Why Did Abraham Lie to Pharaoh?

Snippet:

This comes from not understanding covenants. Abraham was commanded according to his covenant to tell Pharaoh that his wife was his sister.

First off the commandment of the 10 in question is not about lying but giving a false witness "AGAINST" your neighbor. It can also be pointed out that one of the commandments is: "NOT TO KILL". Yet the Bible records on more than one occasion that the children of Israel to whom the 10 commandments were also commanded to “Kill” various people and nations for a variety of reasons. Does this make the Bible false? NO!

But it does indicate someone who is ignorant of G-d and his ways. Such ignorance is a strong indicator of someone that does not in reality have any relationship – what-so-ever with that G-d that caused the scriptures to be written.

The Traveler

[prisonchaplain]

Traveler, are you suggesting that the Bible does not prohibit lying, but only narrowly prohibits giving false witness against a neighbor? Ergo, lying is hunky dory in some circumstances??? Also, I do not understand your last paragraph. Who is it you believe to be ignorant of God and his ways, and thus is not in relationship with Him? Is it Pharaoh, or who?

[Jenamarie]

The way I see it is: God knows when to make exceptions to the "rules". HE alone knows perfectly when killing is justified and when it is not. He knows when lying to save a life is justified and when it is not.

The commandments are for US to follow, because we do not have that perfect knowledge of the "bigger picture", that view of "perfect justice" that God has.

It is not up to man to come up to exceptions to the rules, it is up to God to determine when a certain circumstance justifies the "breaking" of a commandment by men (or women), and if we are in tune with His Spirit/are listening to His Prophets (or ARE His Prophet, in Abraham's case) He will let us know when those times are.

Just my two cents.

[rameumptom]

In Abraham's day, there were fewer distinctions and terms for family relationships. There was no "niece" term. Since Sarah was the daughter of Abraham's brother, she was considered his sister. So, the Lord could command Abraham to tell the Egyptians that she was his sister, and be telling the truth.

As it is, God commands many things that are contrary to the 10 Commandments. Moses and Joshua were commanded of God to not only kill, but completely wipe out entire cities, including innocent women and children.

D&C tells us "I the Lord will forgive whom I will forgive, but of you it is commanded to forgive all men." Is it possible that the commandments are for us, and God can abide them if he so chooses?

[Vanhin]

I still find the rational that Sarai was his half sister to be a half truth. God did not tell Abraham to say that because it was literally, narrowly true, and thus a justified misleading.

Right, but I call my half-sisters "sisters" when someone asks. I have two of them. I even have one step-sister, who I also consider to be a full sister. I certainly don't go out of my way to say they are half-sisters, because that's not how I view them. And I don't think that calling them sisters is a half-truth, nor do I think that I am a liar when I do so. Besides, I don't think that would have made much difference anyway in this case.

That said, Sarai was also his "whole" sister according to LDS theology. As bert10 pointed out, the spirits of all men and women are the offspring of God, and thus we are all brothers and sisters. My own wife is my sister in this sense. And further, we believe that Abraham and Sarai were disciples of Jesus Christ, and as such, had entered into a covenant with God and become children of Christ. For the reasons mentioned above, members of the Lord's Church, as covenant children of Christ and literal spirit offspring of the Father, call each other brother and sister. Brother Smith, Sister Smith, etc...

And now, because of the covenant which ye have made ye shall be called the children of Christ, his sons, and his daughters; for behold, this day he hath spiritually begotten you; for ye say that your hearts are changed through faith on his name; therefore, ye are born of him and have become his sons and his daughters. (Mosiah 5:7)

But I see what you are saying. It was clearly designed to mislead, because at this point Sarai was his wife above being his sister, and Pharaoh certainly saw the distinction. :)

If indeed it was God, then we may never know why, until he tells us.

That I agree with as well. Some of the rationale was given in the Book of Abraham, but the justification for it is not clearly spelled out. We can just safely assume that God knows what he is doing and did not violate any principle of righteousness in so commanding Abraham.

Regards,

Vanhin

[Vanhin]

D&C tells us "I the Lord will forgive whom I will forgive, but of you it is commanded to forgive all men." Is it possible that the commandments are for us, and God can abide them if he so chooses?

I think it's more likely that we simply do not understand all the things that God does. That's why He is in a position to know who merits forgiveness and who doesn't, for example, and it is our responsibility to forgive everyone because of the limits of our understanding.

I do not think that God will violate principles of righteousness, and I think that in doing so he would cease to be God. The funny thing about truth is that it is unchanging and universally true in every case. The priesthood is the power of God, and in the scripture we learn:

That the rights of the priesthood are inseparably connected with the powers of heaven, and that the powers of heaven cannot be controlled nor handled only upon the principles of righteousness. (D&C 121:36)

And we also learn that "any degree of unrighteousness" leads to a loss of priesthood and authority (D&C 121:37).

Check this out. The light of truth (or light of Chirst) is the law by which all things are governed in heaven and on earth (D&C 88:6-13). It is truth and it is light. Modern scriptures sometimes refer to this as intelligence. It is coeternal with God and was not created.

...Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be. (D&C 93:29)

God abides this law, and has all truth and light, and the entire plan of Salvation is designed to allow us, each with varying degrees of truth and light already, to progress to a point that we too are glorified in truth and know all things.

He that keepeth his commandments receiveth truth and light, until he is glorified in truth and knoweth all things. (D&C 93:28)

That is the glory of God (D&C 93:36) and his work is to help us, his children, achieve it as well (Abr. 1:39).

Regards,

Vanhin

[prisonchaplain]

I have no disagreements with Sarai's sister-relationship with Abraham. Vanhin caught my concern very well. To take it a step further, I fear that we sometimes do God a disservice in trying to explain apparent contradictions or exceptions. In this case, when an investigator or non-believer says, "Why would God tell Abraham to lie?" If we respond, "Well, no, actually he didn't lie...Sarai was his half-sister!" it comes across, imho, as weasely and smart aleck. We portray God as being one who might, under certain circumstances, say, "It depends what is is."

[Traveler]

Traveler, are you suggesting that the Bible does not prohibit lying, but only narrowly prohibits giving false witness against a neighbor? Ergo, lying is hunky dory in some circumstances??? Also, I do not understand your last paragraph. Who is it you believe to be ignorant of God and his ways, and thus is not in relationship with Him? Is it Pharaoh, or who?

The commandment is about a false witness against a neighbor - I want to make sure that we understand that commandment that was part of the covenant given to ancient Israel.

I believe someone to be ignorant of G-d if they are anxious to find fault with a neighbor - saying for example the Book of Mormon (or Bible) is false on a fabricated notion as a witness against. It is also interesting what the ancient notion of witness was - not anyone could bring a witness against someone - especially on second hand information. A witness must be someone with first hand experience. Or if you will - was there and knows. To make a witness one would have to have seen with their own eyes. Also in ancient time there must be more than one witness.

BTW - PC. As an expert in the Bible what was the punishment under the Law of Moses for a false witness?

About lying - may I ask a question. For many years I worked for the government on classified projects. For my resume I was given false projects that I was to use as what I was doing for those years. Should I lie about my employment on my resume or go to jail for telling the world what I really did? And what does it mean to "agree with thine adversary"?

Have I broken one of the 10 commandments with my resume?

The Traveler

[Hemidakota]

On my resume, I just list the programs I work on and not worry about what the government thinks. LOL

[Justice]

This is like if someone came in your house at night with a gun and you had your kids hide in a closet. If the intruder asked you if anyone else was home, what do you say?

Oh, no! I was hoping you wouldn't ask that. I can't lie, so they're hiding in the closet.

[prisonchaplain]

The commandment is about a false witness against a neighbor - I want to make sure that we understand that commandment that was part of the covenant given to ancient Israel.

I believe someone to be ignorant of G-d if they are anxious to find fault with a neighbor - saying for example the Book of Mormon (or Bible) is false on a fabricated notion as a witness against. It is also interesting what the ancient notion of witness was - not anyone could bring a witness against someone - especially on second hand information. A witness must be someone with first hand experience. Or if you will - was there and knows. To make a witness one would have to have seen with their own eyes. Also in ancient time there must be more than one witness.

BTW - PC. As an expert in the Bible what was the punishment under the Law of Moses for a false witness?

I'm not sure anyone can truly become an expert in the Bible, though I hope to be a diligent workman, who rightly divides it. In answer to your question, the false witness would receive the same punishment as the defendant s/he testifies against.

About lying - may I ask a question. For many years I worked for the government on classified projects. For my resume I was given false projects that I was to use as what I was doing for those years. Should I lie about my employment on my resume or go to jail for telling the world what I really did? And what does it mean to "agree with thine adversary." Have I broken one of the 10 commandments with my resume? The Traveler

Simple answer: I worked for the government, and most of what I did was classified. My skills are _____.

I remain troubled that in our efforts to defend God we would appear to justify lying.

Edited June 18, 2008 by prisonchaplain

[Traveler]

Simple answer: I worked for the government, and most of what I did was classified. My skills are _____.

I remain troubled that in our efforts to defend God we would appear to justify lying.

I can tell you have not been involved with classified government projects - Do you give advice as a prison Chaplain to insure inmates will be in your ministery longer? :)

Let me ask a question about the Bible. Is one of the commandments in essence "Thou shalt not Kill"? Is there anywhere else in the Bible that someone was commanded to "Kill"?

There is a point here that is being missed - where we are trying to attach the modern understanding of law and morals to an ancient system of laws and morals of a different structure. In other words I think we are interperting scripture according to our current culture understanding and think we understand how G-d deals with laws and covenants within his kingdom. I keep thinking someone will catch this point but it does not appear to me that the kingdom of G-d is understood. I also do not think it is that hard but then I seem to not follow the croud on many things.

The Traveler

[prisonchaplain]

I can tell you have not been involved with classified government projects - Do you give advice as a prison Chaplain to insure inmates will be in your ministery longer? :)

Let me ask a question about the Bible. Is one of the commandments in essence "Thou shalt not Kill"? Is there anywhere else in the Bible that someone was commanded to "Kill"?

There is a point here that is being missed - where we are trying to attach the modern understanding of law and morals to an ancient system of laws and morals of a different structure. In other words I think we are interperting scripture according to our current culture understanding and think we understand how G-d deals with laws and covenants within his kingdom. I keep thinking someone will catch this point but it does not appear to me that the kingdom of G-d is understood. I also do not think it is that hard but then I seem to not follow the croud on many things.

The Traveler

I believe I do understand your point...that rigidly demanding that commands such as "Don't bare false witness" and "Thou shalt not kill" mean always and in every circumstance, lead to moral absurdities, such as disallowing self defense and defense of family, and requiring one to be direct, frank and rude in responding to the dreaded, "How do you like my hair, honey?"

However, my point is that we do not need to defend God in these matters. Rather, God, as the author of the law, does not violate morality and ethics. Ergo, IF he told Abraham to do it, then Abraham responded in both faith and morality, by "lying."

We tread in dangerous waters if we try to create a doctrine of lying out of that episode, however...and very likely miss the main meaning of the story.