Foreordained to be Ministers of Christ

[bytor2112]

I recently read a talk by Bruce McConkie regarding the Priesthood. In this talk and others he mentions that all of us who are "called to minister in the Holy Priesthood were foreordained to be Ministers of Christ." We each were chosen to receive the Gospel in the pre-existence. Do you think that those who reject or seem to not care about the Gospel are just following their foreordained path? Or what about those who leave the Gospel, have they just been deceived and lost their way or were they not supposed to receive the Gospel in this life?

[Bookmeister]

Well, the way I understand it right now, those who rejected the Gospel in the Pre-existence followed Satan and took off, so there's a third of the souls out of the running right off the bat. Once we're here and can exercise our free agency, we have the choice of receiving the Gospel or not. However, those who accepted Heavenly Father's plan in the Pre-existence were all "foreordained to be Ministers of Christ." However, in order to follow through with Heavenly Father's plan, we would need to hear and accept the Gospel during our mortal existence.

I prefer to think that those who reject the Gospel have been deceived by Satan, rather than not being supposed to receive the Gospel during their mortal life.

Of course, I could also be incredibly wrong.

[bytor2112]

I agree. I read some comments from, I think, Joseph Fielding Smith, that seemed to indicate that their were those who were less valiant in the pre-existence. They didn't follow Lucifer, but were not so keen on being a noble one in this life. I often wonder why so few people seem to be willing to accept the Restored Gospel but are willing to accept a "watered" down version or a 'doctrines of man mingled with scripture."

[Hemidakota]

Are you referring to this Ensign Article?

LDS.org - Ensign Article - God Foreordains His Prophets and His People

[Hemidakota]

A few quotes from past latter-day prophets regarding this topic:

Every man who has a calling to minister to the inhabitants of the world was ordained to that very purpose in the Grand Council of heaven before this world was. I suppose that I was ordained to this very office in that Grand Council. -Joseph Smith, Jr., Documentary History of the Church 6:364, May 12, 1844

No doubt all the prominent men who have figured in any dispensation of the gospel since the days of our father, Adam, until the present, were inspired of the Almighty from their childhood and were chosen and selected even from or before their birth. -Joseph F. Smith, Journal of Discourses 25:52, February 17, 1884

There are thousands of men upon the earth today, among the Saints of God, of whom it was decreed before they came that they should occupy the positions they have occupied and do occupy, and many of them have performed their part and gone home; others are left to still fulfill the duties and responsibilities devolving upon them. -John Taylor, Journal of Discourses 23:177, July 24, 1882

My faith and feeling about this matter is that we were appointed before the world was, as much as the ancient apostles were, to come forth in the flesh and take hold of this kingdom, and we have it to do, or be damned. -Wilford Woodruff, Conference Reports, p. 84-85, April, 1880

Here we are a handful of people chosen out of some twelve or fourteen hundred millions of people; and my faith in regard to this matter is that before we were born Â…we were chosen to come forth in this day and generation and do the work which God has designed should be done. -Wilford Woodruff, Journal of Discourses 21:193, July 3, 1880

Joseph Smith was ordained before he came here, the same as Jeremiah was. Said the Lord unto him, "Before you were begotten I knew you," etc.

So do I believe with regard to this people, so do I believe with regard to the apostles, the high priests, seventies and the elders of Israel bearing the Holy Priesthood, I believe they were ordained before they came here; and I believe the God of Israel has raised them up and has watched over them from their youth, has carried them through all the scenes of life both seen and unseen, and has prepared them as instruments in His hands to take this kingdom and bear it off. If this be so, what manner of men ought we to be? If anything under the heavens should humble men before the Lord and before one another, it should be the fact that we have been called of God. -Wilford Woodruff, Journal of Discourses 21:317, October 10, 1880

It was decreed in the councils of eternity, long before the foundations of the earth were laid, that he (Joseph Smith) should be the man, in the last dispensation of this world, to bring forth the word of God to the people and receive the fullness f the keys and power of the priesthood of the Son of God. The Lord had His eye upon him and upon his father, and upon his father s father, and upon their progenitors clear back to Abraham, and from Abraham to the flood, from the flood to Enoch, and from Enoch to Adam. He has watched that family and that blood as it has circulated from its fountain to the birth of that man. He was foreordained in eternity to preside over this last dispensation. -Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 7:289-290, October 9, 1859

I believe that God Almighty reserved a certain class of men to carry on His word. They have been born into the world in this generation. I believe this was the case with Joseph Smith. I believe he was ordained to this work before he tabernacled in the flesh. -Wilford Woodruff, Journal of Discourses 22:206, January 9, 1881

I was ordained to dedicate this Salt Lake Temple fifty years before it was dedicated. I knew I should live to dedicate that Temple. I did live to do it.

-Wilford Woodruff, Conference Reports, p. 29, April, 1898

[Vanhin]

As has been pointed out, it is clear from the scriptures that many, who were valiant in the pre-mortal world, have been foreordained to complete certain missions in mortality. Joseph Smith, for example, being one of them, and all of us to one extent or another. It is equally clear that foreordination is not predesitination as understood by some Christian sects in the world today. Foreordained individuals can fall. Consider what the Lord said concernig Joseph Smith:

And I have sent forth the fulness of my gospel by the hand of my servant Joseph; and in weakness have I blessed him; And I have given unto him the keys of the mystery of those things which have been sealed, even things which were from the foundation of the world, and the things which shall come from this time until the time of my coming, if he abide in me, and if not, another will I plant in his stead.

Wherefore, watch over him that his faith fail not, and it shall be given by the Comforter, the Holy Ghost, that knoweth all things. (D&C 35:17-19)

We, who kept our first estate, have all been foreordained to keep our second, but many of us will not. James E. Talmage in his book, Jesus the Christ gave this caution in conjunction with the topic of foreordination and the foreknowledge of God:

Let not ignorance and thoughtlessness lead us into the error of assuming that the Father's foreknowledge as to what would be, under given conditions, determined that such must be. It was not His design that the souls of mankind be lost; on the contrary it was and is His work and glory, "to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man." (See The Project Gutenberg eBook of Jesus The Christ, by James E. Talmage.)

Foreordination is much like our patriarchal blessings, which also can be wonderful tools in helping us discern the things we were foreordained to do. They are conditioned upon our righteousness. When we are righteous we become chosen from the many who are called:

Behold, there are many called, but few are chosen. And why are they not chosen? Because their hearts are set so much upon the things of this world, and aspire to the honors of men, that they do not learn this one lesson— That the rights of the priesthood are inseparably connected with the powers of heaven, and that the powers of heaven cannot be controlled nor handled only upon the principles of righteousness.

That they may be conferred upon us, it is true; but when we undertake to cover our sins, or to gratify our pride, our vain ambition, or to exercise control or dominion or compulsion upon the souls of the children of men, in any degree of unrighteousness, behold, the heavens withdraw themselves; the Spirit of the Lord is grieved; and when it is withdrawn, Amen to the priesthood or the authority of that man.

Behold, ere he is aware, he is left unto himself, to kick against the pricks, to persecute the saints, and to fight against God.

We have learned by sad experience that it is the nature and disposition of almost all men, as soon as they get a little authority, as they suppose, they will immediately begin to exercise unrighteous dominion.

Hence many are called, but few are chosen. (D&C 121:24-40)

And this one as well:

But behold, verily I say unto you, that there are many who have been ordained among you, whom I have called but few of them are chosen.

They who are not chosen have sinned a very grievous sin, in that they are walking in darkness at noon-day. (D&C 95:5-6)

Regards,

Vanhin

[Traveler]

The scriptures that tell us of Satan and the third part of heaven were written in a historical context that did not understand fractions as we do in our modern time. The ancient concept of a third part indicated that heaven was divided into three parts under the rebellion of Satan.

We also know from scripture that there was an “elect” part of heaven that was chosen for various purposes. In Abraham chapter 3 (Pof GP) Abraham was told that he was of the elect group. I find no reference to the remaining group by class or name, which has created some speculation.

We also learn from scripture that the people that come to earth are divided into three groups in the type and shadow of the sons of Noah, Shem, Jephup (Pardon my spelling) and Ham. These we learn came to be the nations of the earth and are given the titles of (Shem) the Covenant nations such as Israel or Zion, the Gentile nations (some confusion who really falls into this category but in general we can understand the USA to be a Gentile nation) and the final are known as the Infidel nations or the nations that war against G-d – there is also some confusion what nations comprise this category. I believe it is important to identify the classes of nations or governments.

The other interesting aspect is that there will be three “Kingdoms” of the resurrection or of heaven. Only those that are ordained in mortality (including by proxy) can participate in the Celestial Kingdom of G-d.

If we were to consider time as distance and that 1,000 years was a foot and that the universe is some 12 billion years old. That would mean that we are all at least 12 billion years old as spirit children of the Most High. Laying out that time in distance that would be about the same as the distance between SLC, Ut. and LA Calif. The life span of the average person would be about 1 and ½ inches. If you are on a trip from SLC to LA and all you had left was 1 and ½ inch what would you expect could change the outcome of your journey after all those miles in that last 1 and ½ inch. I do not think anything would really change. Likewise I suspect that having developed and prepared for 12 billion years that not much will change in the 80 or so years of mortality.

I for one, believe that preparation and outcome are directly linked. I am not sure that this life will change who anyone was from the pre-existence but rather display the extent of our preparation.

The Traveler

[rayhale]

Although I can’t say for certain, I feel that everyone on earth was foreordained to be ‘missionaries’. In the church there’s the phrase, ‘Every member a missionary’, so I think it’s true for everyone else. If not, then how is it that people can join the church and become missionaries if the church says that you were foreordained to do all righteous things like missions, marriage, or any other calling?

[omega0401]

I for one, believe that preparation and outcome are directly linked. I am not sure that this life will change who anyone was from the pre-existence but rather display the extent of our preparation.

The Traveler

Interesting thought. There may very well be a link between preparation in our pre-mortal life and what our outcome is in this life. You might have something there Traveler. Thanks.

Another thought might be that what we learn in this life, that we could not learn in our pre-mortal life and may have affected us so deeply, may even make us a better more Christ-like person than we were in our pre-mortal life.

The time will come when we will know the answer. Having that vale across our minds so we cannot remember our pre-mortal life and to learn through faith is such a huge key to the Plan of Salvation and our eternal progress. Our Heavenly Father is so very wise.

[bert10]

The answer lies in our earthly existence. We are not here to prove God's fore-knowledge....but to prove to ourselves that God's fore-knowledge and plan was/is just. That when we are in heaven...and God shall assign us a position in one of the many mansions we will know without a doubt that the reward whether it be great or small that God will give us.... is just.

Prophets, holy men etc were chosen based on what they did in heaven. God is no respecter of persons....It was the faith that they exercised in heaven that opened up the way for them here on the earth. For the law is that all men receive according to their faith.

Christians who do not believe in pre-existence will have a real problem with this post. However, everything that exist, or in a state of being is based on faith...first in heaven,,That sets the stage up for us on the earth and then if we continue to build on our faith here on the earth, it shall set the stage which will determine our position in heaven. Everyone is born in this world exactly where he should be,,,,there is no accident. And everyone will return to the Spirit world exactly where he should be and all will then acknowledge that God is right and just in all things.

Peace be unto you

bert10

I recently read a talk by Bruce McConkie regarding the Priesthood. In this talk and others he mentions that all of us who are "called to minister in the Holy Priesthood were foreordained to be Ministers of Christ." We each were chosen to receive the Gospel in the pre-existence. Do you think that those who reject or seem to not care about the Gospel are just following their foreordained path? Or what about those who leave the Gospel, have they just been deceived and lost their way or were they not supposed to receive the Gospel in this life?

Edited June 29, 2008 by bert10

[skalenfehl]

I recently read a talk by Bruce McConkie regarding the Priesthood. In this talk and others he mentions that all of us who are "called to minister in the Holy Priesthood were foreordained to be Ministers of Christ."

D&C 138: 53-57

53 The Prophet Joseph Smith, and my father, Hyrum Smith, Brigham Young, John Taylor, Wilford Woodruff, and other choice spirits who were reserved to come forth in the fulness of times to take part in laying the foundations of the great latter-day work,

54 Including the building of the temples and the performance of ordinances therein for the redemption of the dead, were also in the spirit world.

55 I observed that they were also among the noble and great ones who were chosen in the beginning to be rulers in the Church of God.

56 Even before they were born, they, with many others, received their first lessons in the world of spirits and were prepared to come forth in the due time of the Lord to labor in his vineyard for the salvation of the souls of men.

57 I beheld that the faithful elders of this dispensation, when they depart from mortal life, continue their labors in the preaching of the gospel of repentance and redemption, through the sacrifice of the Only Begotten Son of God, among those who are in darkness and under the bondage of sin in the great world of the spirits of the dead.

McConkie was correct. All who are called of God were foreordained to do so and received instruction before this life in preparation for their tasks.

We each were chosen to receive the Gospel in the pre-existence. Do you think that those who reject or seem to not care about the Gospel are just following their foreordained path? Or what about those who leave the Gospel, have they just been deceived and lost their way or were they not supposed to receive the Gospel in this life?

We were all chosen, or rather, we all chose to come down and keep our first estate, whereas Satan chose not to keep his first estate and dragged a third of the hosts of heaven with him. We chose to come down and partake of a mortal probation. People who reject the gospel or fall were not foreordained to do so, but rather do so simply because they exercise their agency not to do so. Not everyone in the pre-mortal existence was equally valiant in the Lord's cause. Those personalities, in my estimation, carried over into our mortality. Those who leave the Gospel do so, not because it was supposed to be this way, but because they simply made poor choices, like David with Bathsheba, who forfeited his exaltation. We are all meant to succeed and gain exaltation, but not everyone decides it's worth it enough and make different choices and miss out on the blessings that were reserved for them.

[Hemidakota]

Although I can’t say for certain, I feel that everyone on earth was foreordained to be ‘missionaries’. In the church there’s the phrase, ‘Every member a missionary’, so I think it’s true for everyone else. If not, then how is it that people can join the church and become missionaries if the church says that you were foreordained to do all righteous things like missions, marriage, or any other calling?

IMHO, I do not believe everyone was a missionary in the pre-mortal life. They simple were converted in not following Lucifer plan.

[PapilioMemnon]

Alma taught us about foreordination on Chapter 13 of Alma (We discussed that in our Sunday School class yesterday); it's really interesting!

In the pre-mortal life, we also had our agency, and were in different levels of intelligence, understanding, obedience. The Lord foreordained those based on His foreknowledge of our abilities, inclinations,... especially "faith and good works."

I love Sunday School!!! :)

[Hemidakota]

You going to find also, when the Christ returns, a few great ones of that earlier pre-mortal grand council, come to this earth just receive a mortal flesh, experience somewhat of life, and return home without the attention of the world.